That first Ody was more or less a rush job to get in the minivan market. It was OK for what it was. I very nearly bought a used one instead of the 00 Accord we got. That Ody was a slug - Accord platform but bigger and heavier and with the 4 cyl and an automatic.
That Passport was the first real big mistake out of Honda. They never should have put their name on such a pile of junk no matter how long they needed to develop their own SUV.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Yep, it was all those Chrysler people who moved to Germany to engineer the vehicles and work in the plants; yessirree, that's what happened.
Love your humor but, no the real deal was this...
To add some background, Chrysler had already been left in shambles by Daimler AG, which was then led by the single-worst executive in automotive history – the disgraced Jurgen Schrempp – who, skipping over the detailed due diligence, wildly overpaid for Chrysler and upon discovering just how bad it was, crippled the company in a desperate last stab at cutting costs to eke out at least a shred of profit, only to discover that it was a terminally hopeless endeavor.
And then in marched Cerberus. Paying $7.4 billion to Daimler for an 80.1 percent stake in Chrysler in 2007 (Daimler paid $37 billion for Chrysler just nine years earlier), Cerberus named none other than “Minimum Bob” Nardelli to lead Chrysler’s resurrection, a fateful move that would prove to be the company’s ultimate undoing.
Like it or not, Chryler was dead 30 years ago. The corpse has been "brought back to life" much in the same way as the Frankenstein Monster. Let it R.I.P. for Goodness Sake!
I'm actually going to disagree with Fintail on that one. As long as the rental is from a reputable rental car agency, I think rentals are an excellent way to see how a car holds up under actual use.
Exactly! Excellent point. When I rented a G5 (with 2,000 miles on the OD) in 2008, I KNEW GM was continuing to making 3rd rate cars. Thank goodness I confirmed what I already knew!!! Wonder why Pontiac is history??????
Yeah I remember the SLX, I mean Isuzu Trooper. I also remember the Honda Passport, those were just more of the same Isuzu junk. IIRC, the Passport was a rebadged Isuzu Rodeo.
A G5 is a Cobalt...the lowest-priced car they built in North America.
I paid $9,900 new for mine, before trade. (Well, I had $2,000 free money on my GM card, so people w/o a GM card would have paid $11.9K).
A/C, ABS, satellite radio, floor mats and side moldings, four doors. High N.A. content and built 40 miles down the road. An honest 37 mpg highway.
What other car built then was of comparable size, for that price?
I have 51K miles and I still very much enjoy it. It is without a doubt quieter than my coworker's '05 Civic and his '09 Matrix, and this is from several five-hour drives with work. Even my Ford-loving coworker told me that. But, I know all about perception and image, sadly. I often thumb my nose at both.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I've had rental Malibu/Classics, Cavaliers, Aveo's, and Mustang's that clearly demonstrated to me that buying domestic would mean settling for low quality product. The Pontiac GrandPrix GT Supercharged was a suprise since I didn't pay extra for it, and although it had some guts, the handling was atrocious.
The Civic, Corolla, and Murano rentals I've had were standouts. I didn't care for the CVT, but Nissan did a good job.
To be balanced, the worst rental I ever had was a Kia Sephia. The curb weight on that must of been close to that of the Yugo!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
What stood out about the first ML? Where it was built.
If that was the only MB model with quality glitches back then I'd buy it, but really their malaise and indifference helped BMW and Lexus gain share big time in those days. AL always seemed like a weird state with high tech and good schools in places like Huntsville or the suburbs of Birmingham, but practically illiterate in some others. Maybe its a function of local property taxes or something? Generaly good football at 'Bama and Auburn - maybe too many hits to the head?
Any car used as a taxi or police car is a good judge of how well a car holds up under the long run and extreme abuse AFAIK. My current beater ride is a Mercury Grand Marquis which is a clone of the Crown Victoria used by police and taxi fleets. I wish GM would sell a civilian version of the G-8 based Caprice that's currently sold only to police fleets. I'd buy one in a New York second.
AL always seemed like a weird state with high tech and good schools in places like Huntsville or the suburbs of Birmingham
My nephew works near Huntsville and his father in law retired from a GM engine plant in the area. His brother in law is building Toyota engines in nearby Decatur iirc. So Alabama has been making auto parts for at least 30 years I'd say, probably longer. Been making steel forever.
And it's not like Huntsville hasn't been full of Germans forever. Von Braun wound up there in 1950. Tuscaloosa isn't a slouch either; besides Bear Bryant, it's been home to lots of manufacturing for a long time, including tire manufacturers and foundries. Not sure why MB had such growing pains in Alabama, but they took a couple of years to figure it out.
Unlike Jackson Mississippi. I can understand why Nissan had their own growing pains in Canton. That area has always been state government and a regional service area; not much industry to speak of.
Funny, my brother went to school in Canton for a while and got his masters in Tuscaloosa.
Not sure if he could even change the oil on a Nissan or Mercedes.
Birmingham is known as "The Pittsburgh of the South."
That's from the old steel days. Parts of both of those cities are nice. In all fairness, Pittsburgh also has Carnegie Melon and as for Birmingham, I don't think George Wallace is around any more.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The Chevrolet Volt, General Motors' plug-in car, has earned a recommendation from Consumer Reports magazine.
The Volt, which GM calls a "range-extended electric vehicle," has already earned several awards including Motor Trend Car of the Year and North American Car of the Year, but Consumer Reports' recommendation could have more impact on sales than any of those.
Generally regarded as the single most influential publication among car buyers, Consumer Reports anonymously purchases all the cars it tests from dealers rather than using cars provided by manufacturers. The magazine also accepts no advertising to prevent real or apparent conflicts of interest. Consumer Reports test drivers were generally able to get about 35 miles in electric vehicle mode before the car's 1.4-liter gasoline engine had to begin generating electricity on-board. That's the same EV range as the car's official EPA estimates. Using the heater greatly reduced the car's range, though, the magazine said.
The Nissan Leaf, which a purely electric car, earned a higher score in Consumer Reports' tests -- 78 on a 100-point scale versus the Volts 67 -- but has not earned a recommendation because not enough data has been collected from owners yet.
The Leaf would have scored even higher but was penalized for its limited driving range, said Gabriel Shenhar, senior auto test engineer at Consumer Reports. The Leaf can go only about 75 miles on a charge. It has better visibility than the Volt, though, plus it seats five and has roomier back seats, he said.
So far, GM has sold just over 4,000 Volts and still hopes to sell 10,000 by the end of the year. Until recently, the Volt was only available in a few states, but GM is now ramping up production and making the car available in all 50 states. :surprise:
I think that's an important stamp of approval, but FWIW 67 is not a very high score. In the Poor/Fair/Good/Very Good/Excellent scale, it eeks out a Good.
Sep 2011, the month that most Japanese automakers had recovered from the Mar earthquake impact and had almost full stock, and spent almost as much incentives as GM (more than Ford), this supposed to be the month of the GM's decline and Japanese's gain. But the result was quite the opposite, GM increased its market share from 18.0% one year ago to 19.7% now in the month while Toyota and Honda still had big slide.
Maybe those would-be Toyota and Honda buyers were forced to try something else due to the shortage and discovered a better world outside and never come back?
Here're the Sep total sales, sales changes and incentives as a percentage of the average transaction price of the top auto makers:
Rank. Automaker: Sales; Change from one year ago; Incentive % as the transaction prices 1. GM: 207,145; +19.7%; 9.8% 2. Ford: 174,860; +9.0%; 8.8% 3. Chrysler: 127,334; +27.2%; 11.9% 4. Toyota: 121,451; -17.5%; 9.7% 5. Nissan: 92,964; +25.3%; 10.7% 6. Honda: 89,532; -8.0%; 9.3%
You can see that Chrysler and Nissan spent the most on incentives, 11.9% and 10.7% of their respective transaction prices; GM, Toyota and Honda were very close at 9.8%, 9.7% and 9.3%. Ford spent the least at 8.8%.
The previous discussions focused on the average incentive prices which failed to account the higher average transaction prices of US automakers over the Japanese (e.g., GM's $33,145 vs Toyota's $25,475).
Where were you last month when Malibu sales tanked? Hiding?
Sep 2011, the month that most Japanese automakers had recovered from the Mar earthquake impact and had almost full stock
BWAH-HAHAHAHAHAHA
Open with a blatant lie is a funny way to re-enter the conversation.
Toyota's stock is around ~30 days supply, normal is 60. They're not even close!
North American Production is back to normal levels, JDM production is most definitely not. Inventory is nowhere NEAR full stock, about half is more like it.
Why do you feel the need to lie and mislead people?
GM's $33,145 vs Toyota's $25,475
Got a source? GM includes Cadillac, did you include Lexus in with those Toyotas? Lexus' average transaction price is in the $40s.
Japanese automakers had recovered from the Mar earthquake impact and had almost full stock
Bloomberg & Automotive news says:
Honda began the month with 32 days supply of vehicles, from 28 in August, J.D. Power said in a Sept. 22 statement. The industry standard is about 60 days
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
LOL
From now one please list a SOURCE for your ridiculous, bogus claims. I don't have enough time to be your fact-checker.
Avg. transaction prices are heavily inflated by trucks. To get a more usable comparison, you'd have to remove the truck sales number. I'm willing to be GM's avg transaction price with trucks is far higher than cars. Same with Ford and Dodge.
I think that's an important stamp of approval, but FWIW 67 is not a very high score. In the Poor/Fair/Good/Very Good/Excellent scale, it eeks out a Good.
I cancelled my subscription to Consumer Reports several years ago for a variety of reasons. I particularly remember after buying my wife a 2008 Saturn Aura XR and discovering that CR's overall rating for the car (which I thought at the time was exemplary in every way and the best family car we had to that point) was lower than a Hyundai Elantra of that year. My son's friend has a 2010 Elantra and anyone who thinks it is a better car than my wif'e's Aura has some some serious bias against GM.
Four years later my assesment of the Aura remains. So does my opinion of CR...bird cage liner.
Um, the Elantra isn't even in the same class as the Aura is was...
Well, they're both ranked as midsized cars by the EPA, so they do compete on some levels. I could see someone shopping a base-level Aura against a Hyundai Elantra, although a more likely choice would be the Sonata. Most people would consider the Elantra a compact, and in 2008 would have compared it to a Chevy Cruze, Ford Focus, etc.
I'm not a CR subscriber, so I don't have access to their info except for second-hand. I'm curious though...wonder what kind of issues they had with the Aura? My only real beef with the Aura (and this goes for the Malibu and the G6 as well) was the tight rear quarters. But, that alone wouldn't be enough to keep me from buying the car. I dunno how it's been holding up in long-term reliability ratings, though.
I cancelled my subscription to Consumer Reports several years ago for a variety of reasons. I particularly remember after buying my wife a 2008 Saturn Aura XR and discovering that CR's overall rating for the car (which I thought at the time was exemplary in every way and the best family car we had to that point) was lower than a Hyundai Elantra of that year.
Well JD Power also rates a Hyundai Elantra better than a Saturn Aura in terms of overall initial quality and and predicted reliability. The Aura is rated higher on overall performance and design for 2009.
Though I'm with Andre, the Elantra is a cheaper car and maybe they'd compete regarding size, the Aura was certainly a nicer car.
I test drove a new '07 Aura XR 3.6 and wasn't impressed with the quality. Seemed like a decent car overall, but the sample I drove had rattles with less than 100miles on it. The center console was excessively cheap and flimsy. It performed well, but wasn't something I would have bought.
For whatever reason I have an online subscription for CU. CU doesn't compare ratings with an Elantra vs Aura online anyway. With v6 sedans in 09 The Aura XR 3.6 scored a middle of the road 70. The top rated Accord EX v6 scored an 89 and on the opposite end, the screaming pile of doggy doo doo Grand Prix scored a 38 (I'd give it a zero;)) The Sonata GLS V6 scored a 76. These scores are from 07 or so.
The v6 Aura was rated below average in reliability for 07-08 and average for 09. The 4cyl model in 09 was rated above average overall.
The Elanta's reliability is also rated higher with CU from 07-09 vs the Aura. Though I don't see in CU where it rates it overall compared to the Aura. The Elantra is listed among compacts and the Aura is listed with midsize family sedans with the likes of the Fusion, Malibu, and Cam/Cord.
Not to stir up a potential hornet nest here, but, in the pic in that first link, are my eyes deceiving me or is that front door misaligned? :P
Now, to be fair, I've seen much worse fit and finish issues than that, and on much more prestigious cars, so I'm just sort of nitpicking here. :shades:
Back in late 2009 when my Intrepid got totaled, the Aura was one car I was considering as a replacement. I found and bought my Park Ave before I had a chance to look at an Aura in person, though.
It's most certainly nicer than an Elantra which is pretty much a bottom-feeder.
Compared to what? The Elantra seems to be more than holding its own compared to it's intended competition. Focus, Cruze, Civic, etc. IMO, the Cruze, Focus, and Elanta are all competent small cars that appeal to different people for different reasons.
I thought the Aura was far more appealing than the Malibu at the time, but the updated Malibu in '08 took care of that. IMO, the Aura hasn't aged well at all. When I see one now, it looks dated exterior wise anyway.
2008 Saturn Aura XR and discovering that CR's overall rating for the car (which I thought at the time was exemplary in every way and the best family car we had to that point) was lower than a Hyundai Elantra of that year
You sure about that?
The 2008 Buying Guide from Consumer Reports rates both at a score of 70, which is "Very Good" overall.
Top it off, Aura rated higher for accident avoidance.
So that gives the tie-breaker to the Aura. Why cancel over that?
I think the Aura suffers simply because it was badged a Saturn. Saturn had a reputation for building dull, uninspired "appliance cars" for non-car people by the time it debuted.
The Aura makes the 2004-07 Malibu look like a toaster! I still prefer the Aura to the '08+ Malibu, though. The front-end looks a little sleeker and more aggressive, whereas the new Malibu seems a bit swollen, somewhat like what they did with the 2007 Camry. And, there's just something about the '08+ Malibu's rear end I never cared for. It seems to have an unfinished look to it, like the designers couldn't quite come up with final agreement of what to do with it.
At certain angles, the Aura makes me think of the 2001-06 Dodge Stratus/Chrysler Sebring, cars that I thought were very attractive looking and well-proportioned.
OK, looks like the XR 3.6l V6 earned a score of 70.
The 3.5l V6 XE model, which they called "coarse", earned a 62, still "Very Good". The XE did not have ESC standard and they ding scores for that. It's also in a much higher price class so expectations are different.
$9265 was the price discrepancy between the tested Elantra and the Aura XR.
The Aura makes the 2004-07 Malibu look like a toaster!
I hope whomever signed off on the design of the '04-07 Malibu is no longer with GM. Man that car was horribly bland.
Now, I prefer the front of the Aura, but the back end does nothing for me. For whatever reason the exterior design no longer appeals to me like it did back in '07.
Regardless, at the time it was the best midsize sedan GM had by far. Saturn's demise was long inevitable by 07. The new models were merely realigning the chairs on the deck of a sinking ship. To much damage was inflicted by letting the S series languish, only to be replaced by the Ion. The L Series was bad too. I wonder what percentage of original Saturn owners are still with GM. Every single person I know that once owned a Saturn never bought another new GM product. I know quite a few too.
I actually went to the GM event that introduced that Malibu. Not sure what mailing list I was on to get that invite, but I went, mostly out of curiosity.
I kinda liked the Maxx model, a roomy 5 door with rear seats that could slide back.
Exterior styling left much to be desired, but the replacement Malibu looked a whole lot better.
The new models were merely realigning the chairs on the deck of a sinking ship. To much damage was inflicted by letting the S series languish, only to be replaced by the Ion. The L Series was bad too. I wonder what percentage of original Saturn owners are still with GM. Every single person I know that once owned a Saturn never bought another new GM product. I know quite a few too.
My wife and I have owned 4 Saturns over the years ... '03 L300, '05 & '08 VUE and an '06 ION. All but the ION are gone.
The L300 was traded in after 7 1/2 years and 95K miles for a MINI Cooper for our daughter. The '05 VUE was traded in for the '08 VUE. The '08 VUE was traded in for a 2010 Mazda CX-7.
We still have the '06 ION, which only has 59K on it. When the time comes for us to trade that in, it's very likely that it, too, will be replaced by a non-GM vehicle.
I think the 2004 Malibu was a big improvement over the 1997-03 in many ways, but unfortunately styling wasn't one of them. Fit and finish and interior quality seemed like a HUGE step up from the previous model, and it seemed like a model for space efficiency, with an interior that seemed quite generous, given the external dimensions. That's probably why the car looked so awkward, because it was the only way they could get that much room into a package that small overall.
The Malibu Maxx was a good idea. Shame it didn't catch on.
Comments
That Passport was the first real big mistake out of Honda. They never should have put their name on such a pile of junk no matter how long they needed to develop their own SUV.
Just like the stench of GM quality....
Regards,
OW
Love your humor but, no the real deal was this...
To add some background, Chrysler had already been left in shambles by Daimler AG, which was then led by the single-worst executive in automotive history – the disgraced Jurgen Schrempp – who, skipping over the detailed due diligence, wildly overpaid for Chrysler and upon discovering just how bad it was, crippled the company in a desperate last stab at cutting costs to eke out at least a shred of profit, only to discover that it was a terminally hopeless endeavor.
And then in marched Cerberus. Paying $7.4 billion to Daimler for an 80.1 percent stake in Chrysler in 2007 (Daimler paid $37 billion for Chrysler just nine years earlier), Cerberus named none other than “Minimum Bob” Nardelli to lead Chrysler’s resurrection, a fateful move that would prove to be the company’s ultimate undoing.
Like it or not, Chryler was dead 30 years ago. The corpse has been "brought back to life" much in the same way as the Frankenstein Monster. Let it R.I.P. for Goodness Sake!
Regards,
OW
Exactly! Excellent point. When I rented a G5 (with 2,000 miles on the OD) in 2008, I KNEW GM was continuing to making 3rd rate cars. Thank goodness I confirmed what I already knew!!! Wonder why Pontiac is history??????
Regards,
OW
Yeah I remember the SLX, I mean Isuzu Trooper. I also remember the Honda Passport, those were just more of the same Isuzu junk. IIRC, the Passport was a rebadged Isuzu Rodeo.
The '08 G-5 had such vague steering and lousy suspension, I was thinking it was 1980 all over again.
Regards,
OW
I paid $9,900 new for mine, before trade. (Well, I had $2,000 free money on my GM card, so people w/o a GM card would have paid $11.9K).
A/C, ABS, satellite radio, floor mats and side moldings, four doors. High N.A. content and built 40 miles down the road. An honest 37 mpg highway.
What other car built then was of comparable size, for that price?
I have 51K miles and I still very much enjoy it. It is without a doubt quieter than my coworker's '05 Civic and his '09 Matrix, and this is from several five-hour drives with work. Even my Ford-loving coworker told me that. But, I know all about perception and image, sadly. I often thumb my nose at both.
The Civic, Corolla, and Murano rentals I've had were standouts. I didn't care for the CVT, but Nissan did a good job.
To be balanced, the worst rental I ever had was a Kia Sephia. The curb weight on that must of been close to that of the Yugo!
If that was the only MB model with quality glitches back then I'd buy it, but really their malaise and indifference helped BMW and Lexus gain share big time in those days. AL always seemed like a weird state with high tech and good schools in places like Huntsville or the suburbs of Birmingham, but practically illiterate in some others. Maybe its a function of local property taxes or something? Generaly good football at 'Bama and Auburn - maybe too many hits to the head?
I always felt a reputable rental at 20-25K kind of tells you what a privately owned one at 40K or so may be like down the road.
My nephew works near Huntsville and his father in law retired from a GM engine plant in the area. His brother in law is building Toyota engines in nearby Decatur iirc. So Alabama has been making auto parts for at least 30 years I'd say, probably longer. Been making steel forever.
And it's not like Huntsville hasn't been full of Germans forever. Von Braun wound up there in 1950. Tuscaloosa isn't a slouch either; besides Bear Bryant, it's been home to lots of manufacturing for a long time, including tire manufacturers and foundries. Not sure why MB had such growing pains in Alabama, but they took a couple of years to figure it out.
Funny, my brother went to school in Canton for a while and got his masters in Tuscaloosa.
Not sure if he could even change the oil on a Nissan or Mercedes.
That's from the old steel days. Parts of both of those cities are nice. In all fairness, Pittsburgh also has Carnegie Melon and as for Birmingham, I don't think George Wallace is around any more.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The Chevrolet Volt, General Motors' plug-in car, has earned a recommendation from Consumer Reports magazine.
The Volt, which GM calls a "range-extended electric vehicle," has already earned several awards including Motor Trend Car of the Year and North American Car of the Year, but Consumer Reports' recommendation could have more impact on sales than any of those.
Generally regarded as the single most influential publication among car buyers, Consumer Reports anonymously purchases all the cars it tests from dealers rather than using cars provided by manufacturers. The magazine also accepts no advertising to prevent real or apparent conflicts of interest.
Consumer Reports test drivers were generally able to get about 35 miles in electric vehicle mode before the car's 1.4-liter gasoline engine had to begin generating electricity on-board. That's the same EV range as the car's official EPA estimates. Using the heater greatly reduced the car's range, though, the magazine said.
The Nissan Leaf, which a purely electric car, earned a higher score in Consumer Reports' tests -- 78 on a 100-point scale versus the Volts 67 -- but has not earned a recommendation because not enough data has been collected from owners yet.
The Leaf would have scored even higher but was penalized for its limited driving range, said Gabriel Shenhar, senior auto test engineer at Consumer Reports. The Leaf can go only about 75 miles on a charge. It has better visibility than the Volt, though, plus it seats five and has roomier back seats, he said.
CR Recommends Volt
So far, GM has sold just over 4,000 Volts and still hopes to sell 10,000 by the end of the year. Until recently, the Volt was only available in a few states, but GM is now ramping up production and making the car available in all 50 states. :surprise:
Regards,
OW
Still, the Recommended rating alone is helpful.
Maybe those would-be Toyota and Honda buyers were forced to try something else due to the shortage and discovered a better world outside and never come back?
Here're the Sep total sales, sales changes and incentives as a percentage of the average transaction price of the top auto makers:
Rank. Automaker: Sales; Change from one year ago; Incentive % as the transaction prices
1. GM: 207,145; +19.7%; 9.8%
2. Ford: 174,860; +9.0%; 8.8%
3. Chrysler: 127,334; +27.2%; 11.9%
4. Toyota: 121,451; -17.5%; 9.7%
5. Nissan: 92,964; +25.3%; 10.7%
6. Honda: 89,532; -8.0%; 9.3%
You can see that Chrysler and Nissan spent the most on incentives, 11.9% and 10.7% of their respective transaction prices; GM, Toyota and Honda were very close at 9.8%, 9.7% and 9.3%. Ford spent the least at 8.8%.
The previous discussions focused on the average incentive prices which failed to account the higher average transaction prices of US automakers over the Japanese (e.g., GM's $33,145 vs Toyota's $25,475).
Source: Incentives
Where were you last month when Malibu sales tanked? Hiding?
Sep 2011, the month that most Japanese automakers had recovered from the Mar earthquake impact and had almost full stock
BWAH-HAHAHAHAHAHA
Open with a blatant lie is a funny way to re-enter the conversation.
Toyota's stock is around ~30 days supply, normal is 60. They're not even close!
North American Production is back to normal levels, JDM production is most definitely not. Inventory is nowhere NEAR full stock, about half is more like it.
Why do you feel the need to lie and mislead people?
GM's $33,145 vs Toyota's $25,475
Got a source? GM includes Cadillac, did you include Lexus in with those Toyotas? Lexus' average transaction price is in the $40s.
Japanese automakers had recovered from the Mar earthquake impact and had almost full stock
Bloomberg & Automotive news says:
Honda began the month with 32 days supply of vehicles, from 28 in August, J.D. Power said in a Sept. 22 statement. The industry standard is about 60 days
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
LOL
From now one please list a SOURCE for your ridiculous, bogus claims. I don't have enough time to be your fact-checker.
"Toyota Motor Sales' stocks remained unchanged at a 34-day supply"
34 is not almost 60. Sorry.
Feel free to reply WITH A SOURCE PLEASE.
XLU has the nerve to post incentives for the Japanese brands higher than GM?
GM ALWAYS WILL BE THE KING OF INCENTIVES. Chevy moves cars and trucks by incentives at the top of the industry. Period!
Do you think it will change now that the UAW ratified the new contract?
Regards,
OW
I cancelled my subscription to Consumer Reports several years ago for a variety of reasons. I particularly remember after buying my wife a 2008 Saturn Aura XR and discovering that CR's overall rating for the car (which I thought at the time was exemplary in every way and the best family car we had to that point) was lower than a Hyundai Elantra of that year. My son's friend has a 2010 Elantra and anyone who thinks it is a better car than my wif'e's Aura has some some serious bias against GM.
Four years later my assesment of the Aura remains. So does my opinion of CR...bird cage liner.
I've been traveling all over the world. I don't have nearly the free time as some of you guys do.
Got a source?
There was a link at the bottom of my original post. Read carefully.
iswas...Also, Edmunds even had some pretty serious issues with their long termer, while all their long term Hyundais have been relatively trouble free IIRC.
Just a data point, yes, and a data point does not equal a trend but still...
Well, they're both ranked as midsized cars by the EPA, so they do compete on some levels. I could see someone shopping a base-level Aura against a Hyundai Elantra, although a more likely choice would be the Sonata. Most people would consider the Elantra a compact, and in 2008 would have compared it to a Chevy Cruze, Ford Focus, etc.
I'm not a CR subscriber, so I don't have access to their info except for second-hand. I'm curious though...wonder what kind of issues they had with the Aura? My only real beef with the Aura (and this goes for the Malibu and the G6 as well) was the tight rear quarters. But, that alone wouldn't be enough to keep me from buying the car. I dunno how it's been holding up in long-term reliability ratings, though.
link title
The pastic shroud popped off on them a few times over the course of the LT.
link title
Well JD Power also rates a Hyundai Elantra better than a Saturn Aura in terms of overall initial quality and and predicted reliability. The Aura is rated higher on overall performance and design for 2009.
Though I'm with Andre, the Elantra is a cheaper car and maybe they'd compete regarding size, the Aura was certainly a nicer car.
I test drove a new '07 Aura XR 3.6 and wasn't impressed with the quality. Seemed like a decent car overall, but the sample I drove had rattles with less than 100miles on it. The center console was excessively cheap and flimsy. It performed well, but wasn't something I would have bought.
For whatever reason I have an online subscription for CU. CU doesn't compare ratings with an Elantra vs Aura online anyway. With v6 sedans in 09 The Aura XR 3.6 scored a middle of the road 70. The top rated Accord EX v6 scored an 89 and on the opposite end, the screaming pile of doggy doo doo Grand Prix scored a 38 (I'd give it a zero;)) The Sonata GLS V6 scored a 76. These scores are from 07 or so.
The v6 Aura was rated below average in reliability for 07-08 and average for 09. The 4cyl model in 09 was rated above average overall.
The Elanta's reliability is also rated higher with CU from 07-09 vs the Aura. Though I don't see in CU where it rates it overall compared to the Aura. The Elantra is listed among compacts and the Aura is listed with midsize family sedans with the likes of the Fusion, Malibu, and Cam/Cord.
Now, to be fair, I've seen much worse fit and finish issues than that, and on much more prestigious cars, so I'm just sort of nitpicking here. :shades:
Compared to what? The Elantra seems to be more than holding its own compared to it's intended competition. Focus, Cruze, Civic, etc. IMO, the Cruze, Focus, and Elanta are all competent small cars that appeal to different people for different reasons.
Heed your own advice!
North American production is back up to pre-tsunami levels, but JDM production is not even close. Stock levels are also not even close.
75% of RAV4s still come from Japan, and that model alone fell 7000 sales short of a year ago September.
They still very much have supply shortages. Quotes from right here on Edmunds:
I'm in eastern Iowa and it is pretty hard to find a Rav4
The dealers tell me they can't keep the V6 models in stock, so no serious discounts will happen
Could not find a single RAV4 (both 4 and 6 cylinder version) in Central Texas area. Finally got one from Dallas
For every person willing to drive 3-4 hours to find a RAV4 to test drive there are many that are not.
Tell you what...
Lend me $60.
I promise to pay you back $30.
According to you those are almost the same, so we'll call it even. But remember, read carefully!
You sure about that?
The 2008 Buying Guide from Consumer Reports rates both at a score of 70, which is "Very Good" overall.
Top it off, Aura rated higher for accident avoidance.
So that gives the tie-breaker to the Aura. Why cancel over that?
At certain angles, the Aura makes me think of the 2001-06 Dodge Stratus/Chrysler Sebring, cars that I thought were very attractive looking and well-proportioned.
The 3.5l V6 XE model, which they called "coarse", earned a 62, still "Very Good". The XE did not have ESC standard and they ding scores for that. It's also in a much higher price class so expectations are different.
$9265 was the price discrepancy between the tested Elantra and the Aura XR.
I hope whomever signed off on the design of the '04-07 Malibu is no longer with GM. Man that car was horribly bland.
Now, I prefer the front of the Aura, but the back end does nothing for me. For whatever reason the exterior design no longer appeals to me like it did back in '07.
Regardless, at the time it was the best midsize sedan GM had by far. Saturn's demise was long inevitable by 07. The new models were merely realigning the chairs on the deck of a sinking ship. To much damage was inflicted by letting the S series languish, only to be replaced by the Ion. The L Series was bad too. I wonder what percentage of original Saturn owners are still with GM. Every single person I know that once owned a Saturn never bought another new GM product. I know quite a few too.
I kinda liked the Maxx model, a roomy 5 door with rear seats that could slide back.
Exterior styling left much to be desired, but the replacement Malibu looked a whole lot better.
My wife and I have owned 4 Saturns over the years ... '03 L300, '05 & '08 VUE and an '06 ION. All but the ION are gone.
The L300 was traded in after 7 1/2 years and 95K miles for a MINI Cooper for our daughter. The '05 VUE was traded in for the '08 VUE. The '08 VUE was traded in for a 2010 Mazda CX-7.
We still have the '06 ION, which only has 59K on it. When the time comes for us to trade that in, it's very likely that it, too, will be replaced by a non-GM vehicle.
The Malibu Maxx was a good idea. Shame it didn't catch on.
IMO it was to awkward looking. No doubt the 04 was a better car than the previous model, but the styling was flat out drab.
I'm partial to hatches...
I liked the Astra. That and the Corsa/Celta are all sold in Brazil, so I've seen tons of 'em.