1600 lbs maybe including the passengers? That seems really optimistic.
Yeah, most of those payloads do include the passengers. FWIW, the payloads Edmund's lists for their various vehicles are simply GVWR minus curb weight, which isn't always accurate. For instance, my '85 Silverado has a GVWR of 5600 lb. I think it weighs around 4200 lb, according to the scale at the dump. At least, one time I drove on it empty and it registered around 4400 lb (including me). So, that would leave a payload of roughly 1400 lb, including passengers.
There's a sticker in the glovebox that says the maximum capacity for the bed is only around 850 lb, or something pathetic like that!
Although I know from experience that it'll hold about a ton before the truck starts looking like it's weighted down. And I've also learned from experience NOT to try pushing that to ~3,000 lb, unless I want to have to replace the exhaust system again!
Getting back to small pickups - "The goal should be to kill complexity. The small-pickup buyer never wanted all that crap, it was thrust upon them by planners who thought it necessary. All the new Colorado needs is one useful body style, decent seats, serviceable interior materials and the diesel option that delivers maybe 25 miles per gallon in the city and 30 mpg on the highway."
SEOUL, South Korea TheStreet) -- The Chevrolet Malibu is one of the most popular cars in U.S. history, but to see the first copies of the next model Malibu the place to be is Seoul.
General Motors(GM_) said the first eighth-generation Malibu rolled off the assembly line at its Bupyeong #2 plant in Incheon, the port of Seoul, on Tuesday. Sales of Chevrolet's first global midsize sedan will start next month in Korea, the product's initial market.
I always thought GM shot themselves in the foot with the current Colorado. When it came out, it was bigger than the S10 it replaced, but had a smaller payload and towing capacity. They might have corrected that in later years, but the damage was done.
As for "one useful bodystyle", I don't think there is such a thing these days. The market for pickups is simply too fragmented. For instance, some buyers need a useable back seat, while others need a large cargo area. Try to incorporate both into a "small pickup", and it's not a small pickup anymore!
I kinda like it, partly because my first car was a 1980 Malibu coupe, that also happened to be blue! However, I don't think it would sell very well. Coupes got squeezed out of the mainstream mid/fullsized market years ago, due to lack of demand, and I don't think they're coming back anytime soon. I'm surprised the Accord coupe has been hanging on for so long.
Personally, if it still had a useable back seat and was easy to get into and out of, and trunk space didn't suffer too much, I'd consider one. My old Malibu was pretty good in all those regards. I remember trying to squeeze into the back of an Accord coupe at one of the auto shows though, and I got stuck!
OMG! That Malibu coupe is gorgeous! It would have to have a liveable back seat though, I think, to sell. Remember how Chevy had an ad for the '77 Caprice Coupe called "The Long-Legged Coupe"?
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
It's kind of neat only because there aren't many coupes around. I don't know how much of a market is out there for coupes. Maybe if they make it a true hardtop and make a real high-performance SS version of it. However, that would probably tend to cannibalize sales from the Camaro.
I like the looks of it but would never buy it myself just on practicality terms. Every time I think I represent the mainstream I'm proved wrong so hold on to your hats on this one.
How about a Malibu (or better yet Cruze) convertible? I'd be the first in line!
How about a wagon?
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Do not have GM on their Christmas gift list this year, or any year for that matter.
Turns out there are still a lot of people upset by the bailouts, of which no good reason has ever been given as to why we did it, and now with some history behind us, the results show that it was a horrible idea.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
FWIW that Malibu coupe rendering looks *great*. Love it.
Could compete with the Accord and Altima coupes, I suppose. Toyota dropped the Solara. No Fusion coupe, either. Chrysler stopped making the Avenger/Sebring coupes, right?
It's a fickle segment, though. They don't tend to sustain strong sales longer than the first couple of years.
How about a wagon?
I doubt we'll see that simply because Crossovers are more profitable. A wagon might cannibalize Equinox sales, maybe even Traverse sales.
Not that I wouldn't prefer one, but the US is wagon-averse.
Perhaps if they plan to sell one in Europe or other markets?
I'm surprised the Accord coupe has been hanging on for so long.
In all honesty, so am I. IIRC, coupe sales account for under 10 percent of ALL Accord and Altima sales. IMO, Honda should just rename the coupe the Prelude, which was one of the best coupes available when they were hot back in the '80s and '90s. The Altima coupe is just plain ugly, and I've heard sales are lower than 5% of all Altimas.
Unfortunately, in most cases, if you want easy access to the back seat in coupes, it usually means bigger doors, which in the days of shrinking parking spaces, aren't so convenient. I thought both Saturn and Mazda got it right with the "half-doors", but it still doesn't fully solve the problem.
However, that would probably tend to cannibalize sales from the Camaro.
That was exactly what I thought when the Altima coupe hit the streets, affecting Z sales, but then again, we're talking FWD, compared to RWD for both the Camaro and Z.
Could compete with the Accord and Altima coupes, I suppose. Toyota dropped the Solara. No Fusion coupe, either. Chrysler stopped making the Avenger/Sebring coupes, right?
Yeah, they're gone. A Fusion Coupe would be cool IMO...
It's a fickle segment, though. They don't tend to sustain strong sales longer than the first couple of years.
Unless NASCAR is somehow involved. I think that's the only reason why the last-gen Monte Carlo lasted so long. That car was just horrible in so many ways... :sick:
They should've let the Monte slip away quietly after 1988. From then on out it's been either a two-door Lumina or a misstyled monstrosity. Slapping an Impala front end clip on it the last few years didn't improve much. Per the Monte Carlo - I loved the original 1970-72 style, hated the baroque 1973-77 style, fell back in love with it in 1978, and instantly forgot about it after 1988.
They could have made a Monte from the G8's platform, RWD + V8. I guess that was the GTO, but once Pontiac was gone, the next one coulda been a Monte Carlo.
They should've let the Monte slip away quietly after 1988. From then on out it's been either a two-door Lumina or a misstyled monstrosity. Slapping an Impala front end clip on it the last few years didn't improve much. Per the Monte Carlo - I loved the original 1970-72 style, hated the baroque 1973-77 style, fell back in love with it in 1978, and instantly forgot about it after 1988.
You read my mind exactly Lemko. I cringed when they renamed the Lumina coupe MC Z34. And don't get me started on Impala!!
Even a couple years back when I helped my buddy do an engine swap on his '97 I kept calling it a Lumina. I almost didn't help him, but it was for his son so I relented :P
Doesn't this seem a little like we're getting the second-handed, late goods again? With the Bu being built first in Korea and the U.S. not getting their version until next year, it kind of seems we are getting the leftover...
I agree the front is lacking something. Not too exciting, imho.
I wonder how many will actually sell.
Looks like pretty darn well! Exports for most Chevys built in Kia Country but the 2012 'Bu will probably keep the sales trend moving up for GM.
SEOUL – Chevrolet is on the move in Korea with sales up 27 percent in the first six months since the brand was introduced and 55 percent of Koreans saying they would consider buying a Chevy.
GM Korea sold 11,408 vehicles in Korea and exported 43,036 vehicles in August, for total monthly sales of 54,444 vehicles. Domestic sales in August were up 25 percent from 9,128 vehicles sold in August 2010.
GM Korea played a lead role in the design, engineering and manufacture of the Chevrolet Cruze global compact sedan, the new Chevrolet Spark global mini-car and the new Chevrolet Aveo global small car.
I believe the NEW marketing plan is focusing on global branding/image first. GM already knows the 'Bu will sell well here. I'll wager the US version has more content when it arrives early '12.
I dunno if those Malibus will set the market afire in Korea. They purchase with pretty rabid nationalism (something seen as bad here), and the car might be on the upper edge of preferred size for that market. Time will tell, maybe try to sell it as home grown. And to be fair, the Malibu is a piece of styling elegance compared to the Cruze or Spark etc.
I loved the original 1970-72 style, hated the baroque 1973-77 style, fell back in love with it in 1978, and instantly forgot about it after 1988.
I can remember when my Dad and I drove down past the Chevy dealer in town on a Sunday morning, and I saw my first new Monte Carlo, just off the truck--a '70 model. It was light blue with a black vinyl top and had a sheet over the front grille and headlights, and also over the rear taillights and panel. We looked at it for a minute, then someone came out from the Service Department and quickly drove it inside. Lemko..did you really hate the '73 when it came out? At the time, I thought it was a huge improvement ('check out that Eldorado opera window!'). In hindsight I like the '70-72 a lot better. And, I was horrified when I first saw the '78. I much-preferred the Malibu Classic coupe. Only nowadays will a clean '78 Monte Carlo turn my head. Hey Andre, ever notice how V8 Malibus of that era often sagged in the front, but Montes didn't? With the longer hood, Montes must have had stronger front springs.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Re.: the last couple Monte Carlos...I remember being disappointed in the '95 when I first saw it...too many lines running down the side of it! I hated the last few years of the last Montes, when you couldn't get a side molding, even at extra cost. Too bland down the side! I did like the '02 model, only for the deep green that was a one-year color and the nice buff-colored cloth interior offered that year. And for a few months of the '02 model year, the LS's lacy wheels were actually all bright-finished, instead of silver finish with only a bright center as in model year '00 up 'til then. I'd take an '02 LS or SS.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
The newer Hyun-Kia models haven't enjoyed the success at home that they have in the rest of the world, oddly enough. Perhaps they're just not conservative enough?
The Malibu is quite a bit more conservative, so at least from a styling standpoint it may have an edge.
Are cars the size of the Malibu, Sonata, and Optima very common in Korea? I was under the impression that they'd tend to go for much smaller cars, and that even something like an Elantra might be considered "large-ish"?
"the average vehicle in the U.S. is 10.6 years old".
Hey, I'm above average. :shades:
Forgot where I read it, but there was a recent story about the economy and how people are fixing more stuff now, instead of simply going out and buying a new vacuum or washer (or car?). That appeals to my green and frugal side, but buying a $15 part instead of a new $150 appliance isn't speeding the recovery along.
Even a $2,000 transmission rebuilt is still only 6 or 8 car payments.
Well, I'm currently holding at... 12 years (Park Ave) 27 years (Silverado) 33 years (the two New Yorkers) 36 years (LeMans) 55 years (DeSoto)
So I'm bringing the average down pretty bad! :P
But, I've probably thrown about $6,300 into car repairs and such this year, plus my mechanic is about to start working on the DeSoto again. Not to mention all the registration fees, fuel usage, etc. I'd say I'm doing more than my part to infuse cash into the economy!
Nah, it's still at the mechanic. He hadn't done any work on it for close to a year, because another customer, with a '59 Imperial, who had run out of money, came up with some, so he gave that guy first priority. Irritated me a bit, since I had money (or rather credit ) the whole time. But, oh well. Anyway, he started working on some rust in the trunk area. Alas, the more he digs into the car, the more he finds wrong with it. I actually knew about the rust back there, but once he started digging, it was worse than it originally looked.
Optimism indeed. It signals that cars are generally more durable (aka don't rust out as fast) than 20-30-40 years ago. Declining real incomes and rising prices don't help either.
I have a friend who is from South Korea. From what I can gather (he's not a car person), Sonata size is about as big as you'll usually find, and smaller cars are popular. Local brands also outnumber imports by about a zillion to one, lots of pride there.
I had a colleague from Korea as well, and he had a little old Hyundai vehicle here in the States, which I found interesting.
I don't think the problem is that American's lack good ol' USA pride. I think the problem is we didn't have any vehicle products worthy of having any pride.
People gave up on America being a good vehicle manufacturer long ago. Of course, the transplants building inside America are actually doing the MOST to change that image.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
It's kind of different though. Those old Hyunkias were pretty much just as bad as old American cars (when was the last time you saw a 20 year old Hyundai or a 1st gen Sephia?) - but they still have pride. Koreans have a nationalism that would be called taboo in the west. They support their products and people to no end. This is a big reason behind their recent ascent.
There are American cars to be proud of today, but if you say you have that pride...too often, names are called.
hose old Hyunkias were pretty much just as bad as old American cars (when was the last time you saw a 20 year old Hyundai or a 1st gen Sephia?) - but they still have pride.
Funny you mentioned that. I was stuck behind a POC Excel today that had to be from the early 90's today. I was surprised it was still on the road.
Yeah they were bad. One of my first college roommates was from Korea. He drove POC Cavalier (it was bad, early 80's and pretty much rusted out. He claimed he'd never drive a Japanese car and he predicted someday he'd be proud to drive a Korean car. I'm guessing that day has come.
I had a Chinese roommate the following year (born in China, but a US citizen). Ironically, he drove a Camaro and also didn't desire to drive a Japanese car. Though he never made any claims of wanting to drive a Chinese car. LOL.
I never really noticed the front-end sag on the V-8 Malibus, but I wouldn't be surprised!
As for the '73 Monte Carlo (and any GM intermediate) compared to its '72 and earlier counterpart, I think they suffered a lot from losing the hardtop and convertible body styles. And, as a kid I wasn't so crazy about them because of them reverting back to the 2-headlight setup. I considered quad headlights to be a symbol of prestige, and for the most part it was, as it had been mainly compact or smaller cars, or old, pre-1958 cars that had the single lights. I liked these styles much better when they went to quads for 1976, although I liked the stacked lights less so than the more normal side-by-side.
Excellent post. Your take is EXACTLY why GM lost out for " a few decades".
When cars in the 60's are the best example of USA Automotive up until 2008, it tells the entire story of GM-led decline until bankruptcy forced them to change.
The competition is shaping the new GM far more than it can on it's own.
As for the '73 Monte Carlo (and any GM intermediate) compared to its '72 and earlier counterpart, I think they suffered a lot from losing the hardtop and convertible body styles. And, as a kid I wasn't so crazy about them because of them reverting back to the 2-headlight setup.
Remember that, in the Chevy lineup anyway, even the '70-72 Monte Carlo and '71-72 Chevelle had the single headlight setup. So did the '71-72 Pontiac Grand Prix. But I know what you mean.
Like with the '71 big Chevys, with the '73 intermediates, I thought GM shot their money load on exterior, then had nothing left for interiors! Lots of crinkle black plastic inside on Chevys, anyway.
Remember, too, that there was a price freeze going on when the '73 cars were introduced in late '72. I was excited about the new Chevelles and remember the base price at introduction time for a Malibu Sport Coupe ('72) and Malibu Colonnade Hardtop Coupe ('73) were the same. The '73 seemed decontented...roof drip and wheel opening moldings were optional even on a Malibu for '73. I think that was deliberate.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Oops, that's right...For whatever reason those earlier single-headlight models slipped my mind when I typed that last night. I must've been up too late!
I liked the first Monte Carlo and Grand Prix, but with the Chevelles preferred the 4-headlight styles, especially the '68-69 with its forward-thrusting front-end, which had a more aggressive, sporty look.
Which Cutlass was the one that had quad headlights, but had sort of a raked-back front-end? Was that the '76 Cutlass S? I saw a 4-door version of one of those last night, all white with no vinyl top. I know it's not to everyody's liking, but I thought it was still pretty good looking. I think those '73-77 Colonade 4-doors have aged more gracefully than the competing Ford and Mopar intermediates. The large, airy greenhouses with generous glass area almost seem futuristic, compared to the 1940's era gunslit windows we're going back to presently. And that sloped front-end at least made it look aerodynamic, even though it probably wasn't. Probably helped some on the NASCAR circuit, though.
I actually saw one of the facelift Excels (maybe a 91-92) a week or two ago - but first time in a long time I had seen one, and time hadn't been kind to it. They were crap, on par with any bad Cadavalier or Neon.
One can be proud of a Korean car now, but this is something born in the past 5 years or so, and it took a lot of work - both industrial and on the part of public sector involvement - to make it happen.
One of my roommates in school was also Chinese - but from Taiwan. He bought an Accord on daddy's dime when he was there, I made sure the dealer didn't hose him too much (just a little :shades: ). He had no cares about car origins, he was most concerned with power and color.
Comments
Yeah, most of those payloads do include the passengers. FWIW, the payloads Edmund's lists for their various vehicles are simply GVWR minus curb weight, which isn't always accurate. For instance, my '85 Silverado has a GVWR of 5600 lb. I think it weighs around 4200 lb, according to the scale at the dump. At least, one time I drove on it empty and it registered around 4400 lb (including me). So, that would leave a payload of roughly 1400 lb, including passengers.
There's a sticker in the glovebox that says the maximum capacity for the bed is only around 850 lb, or something pathetic like that!
Although I know from experience that it'll hold about a ton before the truck starts looking like it's weighted down. And I've also learned from experience NOT to try pushing that to ~3,000 lb, unless I want to have to replace the exhaust system again!
Three Of Four Top Models In China Are GM (AutoObserver)
Getting back to small pickups - "The goal should be to kill complexity. The small-pickup buyer never wanted all that crap, it was thrust upon them by planners who thought it necessary. All the new Colorado needs is one useful body style, decent seats, serviceable interior materials and the diesel option that delivers maybe 25 miles per gallon in the city and 30 mpg on the highway."
GM, Do The Right Thing For Colorado (AutoObserver)
General Motors(GM_) said the first eighth-generation Malibu rolled off the assembly line at its Bupyeong #2 plant in Incheon, the port of Seoul, on Tuesday. Sales of Chevrolet's first global midsize sedan will start next month in Korea, the product's initial market.
Chevrolet's First New Malibu Made in Korea
Regards,
OW
As for "one useful bodystyle", I don't think there is such a thing these days. The market for pickups is simply too fragmented. For instance, some buyers need a useable back seat, while others need a large cargo area. Try to incorporate both into a "small pickup", and it's not a small pickup anymore!
Thoughts? Should they or shouldn't they build it?
I'm on the fence for this one.
Personally, if it still had a useable back seat and was easy to get into and out of, and trunk space didn't suffer too much, I'd consider one. My old Malibu was pretty good in all those regards. I remember trying to squeeze into the back of an Accord coupe at one of the auto shows though, and I got stuck!
Agreed! Who the heck wants a Chevy built in Korea, right??
Regards,
OW
How about a Malibu (or better yet Cruze) convertible? I'd be the first in line!
How about a wagon?
Turns out there are still a lot of people upset by the bailouts, of which no good reason has ever been given as to why we did it, and now with some history behind us, the results show that it was a horrible idea.
Could compete with the Accord and Altima coupes, I suppose. Toyota dropped the Solara. No Fusion coupe, either. Chrysler stopped making the Avenger/Sebring coupes, right?
It's a fickle segment, though. They don't tend to sustain strong sales longer than the first couple of years.
How about a wagon?
I doubt we'll see that simply because Crossovers are more profitable. A wagon might cannibalize Equinox sales, maybe even Traverse sales.
Not that I wouldn't prefer one, but the US is wagon-averse.
Perhaps if they plan to sell one in Europe or other markets?
In all honesty, so am I. IIRC, coupe sales account for under 10 percent of ALL Accord and Altima sales. IMO, Honda should just rename the coupe the Prelude, which was one of the best coupes available when they were hot back in the '80s and '90s. The Altima coupe is just plain ugly, and I've heard sales are lower than 5% of all Altimas.
Unfortunately, in most cases, if you want easy access to the back seat in coupes, it usually means bigger doors, which in the days of shrinking parking spaces, aren't so convenient. I thought both Saturn and Mazda got it right with the "half-doors", but it still doesn't fully solve the problem.
That was exactly what I thought when the Altima coupe hit the streets, affecting Z sales, but then again, we're talking FWD, compared to RWD for both the Camaro and Z.
Two different classes IMO.
Yeah, they're gone. A Fusion Coupe would be cool IMO...
It's a fickle segment, though. They don't tend to sustain strong sales longer than the first couple of years.
Unless NASCAR is somehow involved. I think that's the only reason why the last-gen Monte Carlo lasted so long. That car was just horrible in so many ways... :sick:
Actually, I thought slapping the Impala front clip on it improved it tremendously! I still wouldn't have bought one, though.
The old '90-94 Lumina coupe was kinda cool, but then the '95-99 Monte Carlo just seemed a bit generic.
You read my mind exactly Lemko. I cringed when they renamed the Lumina coupe MC Z34. And don't get me started on Impala!!
Even a couple years back when I helped my buddy do an engine swap on his '97 I kept calling it a Lumina. I almost didn't help him, but it was for his son so I relented :P
Doesn't this seem a little like we're getting the second-handed, late goods again? With the Bu being built first in Korea and the U.S. not getting their version until next year, it kind of seems we are getting the leftover...
Not really getting that pickup with the Malibu front end either.
I wonder how many will actually sell.
Looks like pretty darn well! Exports for most Chevys built in Kia Country but the 2012 'Bu will probably keep the sales trend moving up for GM.
SEOUL – Chevrolet is on the move in Korea with sales up 27 percent in the first six months since the brand was introduced and 55 percent of Koreans saying they would consider buying a Chevy.
GM Korea sold 11,408 vehicles in Korea and exported 43,036 vehicles in August, for total monthly sales of 54,444 vehicles. Domestic sales in August were up 25 percent from 9,128 vehicles sold in August 2010.
GM Korea played a lead role in the design, engineering and manufacture of the Chevrolet Cruze global compact sedan, the new Chevrolet Spark global mini-car and the new Chevrolet Aveo global small car.
Chevrolet Brand Catching on in Korea
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
I can remember when my Dad and I drove down past the Chevy dealer in town on a Sunday morning, and I saw my first new Monte Carlo, just off the truck--a '70 model. It was light blue with a black vinyl top and had a sheet over the front grille and headlights, and also over the rear taillights and panel. We looked at it for a minute, then someone came out from the Service Department and quickly drove it inside. Lemko..did you really hate the '73 when it came out? At the time, I thought it was a huge improvement ('check out that Eldorado opera window!'). In hindsight I like the '70-72 a lot better. And, I was horrified when I first saw the '78. I much-preferred the Malibu Classic coupe. Only nowadays will a clean '78 Monte Carlo turn my head. Hey Andre, ever notice how V8 Malibus of that era often sagged in the front, but Montes didn't? With the longer hood, Montes must have had stronger front springs.
The Malibu is quite a bit more conservative, so at least from a styling standpoint it may have an edge.
Good point!
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20111019/AUTO01/110190425/GM--Ford-economists-project- -2012-U.S.-auto-sales-to-rise#ixzz1bL3v6DIW
"Toyota claims it is up, but we have some evidence that even they're struggling."
"It's depressing," Mohatarem said, "that people would rather put off buying that car because they can't get the Honda or Toyota."
I've been saying this all along, and remember, this is GM talking.
Hey, I'm above average. :shades:
Forgot where I read it, but there was a recent story about the economy and how people are fixing more stuff now, instead of simply going out and buying a new vacuum or washer (or car?). That appeals to my green and frugal side, but buying a $15 part instead of a new $150 appliance isn't speeding the recovery along.
Even a $2,000 transmission rebuilt is still only 6 or 8 car payments.
12 years (Park Ave)
27 years (Silverado)
33 years (the two New Yorkers)
36 years (LeMans)
55 years (DeSoto)
So I'm bringing the average down pretty bad! :P
But, I've probably thrown about $6,300 into car repairs and such this year, plus my mechanic is about to start working on the DeSoto again. Not to mention all the registration fees, fuel usage, etc. I'd say I'm doing more than my part to infuse cash into the economy!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Actually you offset some of the CCB Anonymous folks.
I have a 2007, 2008, and 2009. Too bad I didn't keep that streak going.
Funny thing is the 2008 was purchased more recently than the 2009!
I don't think the problem is that American's lack good ol' USA pride. I think the problem is we didn't have any vehicle products worthy of having any pride.
People gave up on America being a good vehicle manufacturer long ago. Of course, the transplants building inside America are actually doing the MOST to change that image.
There are American cars to be proud of today, but if you say you have that pride...too often, names are called.
Funny you mentioned that. I was stuck behind a POC Excel today that had to be from the early 90's today. I was surprised it was still on the road.
Yeah they were bad. One of my first college roommates was from Korea. He drove POC Cavalier (it was bad, early 80's and pretty much rusted out. He claimed he'd never drive a Japanese car and he predicted someday he'd be proud to drive a Korean car. I'm guessing that day has come.
I had a Chinese roommate the following year (born in China, but a US citizen). Ironically, he drove a Camaro and also didn't desire to drive a Japanese car. Though he never made any claims of wanting to drive a Chinese car. LOL.
As for the '73 Monte Carlo (and any GM intermediate) compared to its '72 and earlier counterpart, I think they suffered a lot from losing the hardtop and convertible body styles. And, as a kid I wasn't so crazy about them because of them reverting back to the 2-headlight setup. I considered quad headlights to be a symbol of prestige, and for the most part it was, as it had been mainly compact or smaller cars, or old, pre-1958 cars that had the single lights. I liked these styles much better when they went to quads for 1976, although I liked the stacked lights less so than the more normal side-by-side.
When cars in the 60's are the best example of USA Automotive up until 2008, it tells the entire story of GM-led decline until bankruptcy forced them to change.
The competition is shaping the new GM far more than it can on it's own.
Regards,
OW
Again, more talking in absolutes here.
For 'decades', there were no (zero) American products worth having any pride in?
Of course, this from a guy who compares a Neon to an Audi.
Remember that, in the Chevy lineup anyway, even the '70-72 Monte Carlo and '71-72 Chevelle had the single headlight setup. So did the '71-72 Pontiac Grand Prix. But I know what you mean.
Like with the '71 big Chevys, with the '73 intermediates, I thought GM shot their money load on exterior, then had nothing left for interiors! Lots of crinkle black plastic inside on Chevys, anyway.
Remember, too, that there was a price freeze going on when the '73 cars were introduced in late '72. I was excited about the new Chevelles and remember the base price at introduction time for a Malibu Sport Coupe ('72) and Malibu Colonnade Hardtop Coupe ('73) were the same. The '73 seemed decontented...roof drip and wheel opening moldings were optional even on a Malibu for '73. I think that was deliberate.
I liked the first Monte Carlo and Grand Prix, but with the Chevelles preferred the 4-headlight styles, especially the '68-69 with its forward-thrusting front-end, which had a more aggressive, sporty look.
Which Cutlass was the one that had quad headlights, but had sort of a raked-back front-end? Was that the '76 Cutlass S? I saw a 4-door version of one of those last night, all white with no vinyl top. I know it's not to everyody's liking, but I thought it was still pretty good looking. I think those '73-77 Colonade 4-doors have aged more gracefully than the competing Ford and Mopar intermediates. The large, airy greenhouses with generous glass area almost seem futuristic, compared to the 1940's era gunslit windows we're going back to presently. And that sloped front-end at least made it look aerodynamic, even though it probably wasn't. Probably helped some on the NASCAR circuit, though.
One can be proud of a Korean car now, but this is something born in the past 5 years or so, and it took a lot of work - both industrial and on the part of public sector involvement - to make it happen.
One of my roommates in school was also Chinese - but from Taiwan. He bought an Accord on daddy's dime when he was there, I made sure the dealer didn't hose him too much (just a little :shades: ). He had no cares about car origins, he was most concerned with power and color.