Hyunkia and the Japanese both have benefited from federal aid, either we have to do likewise to keep going in bad times
Okay, so we have to provide federal aid to compete fairly, but why for incompetent GM and Chrysler. They are morons from top to bottom over there.
I'd rather see BILLIONS of my tax payer money go to a new better corporation, say, Fintail Motors, and Andres Automobiles +. Heck, even Lemko Motors sounds better than GM.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
That and Honda seems to be slipping at the moment. Fezo and I were at the Philly Auto Show and noticed a lot of hard plastic in the new Honda interiors. This is the kind of thing for which the Big 3 drew criticism for years.
They are definitely slipping a lot. They do still have reliability going for them. But the slightly sporty and agile driving, with really good interiors, is pretty much gone. No big advantage any more.
Well, I concede you are correct. Hunkia improved their cars faster than Government Motors and now GM & C are catching up. Ford as well WITHOUT bailouts.
Accords and Crosstours still have the double wishbone front....multi-link rear.
As for Accords being too big, that depends on what the prospective buyer wants.......I bought my first one when they "grew up". Others may have left the fold to look for something smaller.
Hyunkia has been coddled since birth, and IIRC received the greatest bailout when Kia was near death in the late 90s. It took a good decade to get products up to speed. Nothing is instant.
I'd rather spend money on industrial concerns than endless aid to ungrateful nations, gifts for the 1%, and make work projects for self-titled private sector companies.
There are morons in every company. Ford has its share of issues too, and has also been rewarded by the government - just not as directly as the other two.
Maybe they need a car in between the Civic and the Accord though I have a hard time picturing that.
With the way the Civic has grown over the years, I don't think there's any need for a car to slot between it and the Accord.
For the Accord to be perfect for me, they'd need to reconfigure it and move the back seat about an inch back. That would make it big enough to fit four people my height 6'3", with a 36" inseam) in the car, with the front seats all the way back, and nobody's knees hitting the seatback. Oh, and give it a trunk of around 16 cubic feet which, IMO, is more or less the standard for a "true" midsized car. And, Honda could do both of these without making the car any bigger on the outside. Cars like the Malibu, Fusion, and even the Cruze are sporting 16 cubic foot trunks. The '02-06 Camry had a 17 cubic foot trunk, although the '07 restyle lopped that to around 15 cubic feet.
But, the things I'm suggesting are probably a result of me coming off cars like my Park Ave, '79 New Yorker, or even my old 1980 Malibu. Which, incidentally, managed to have a 17 cubic foot trunk (I think it was actually 16.6) despite the inefficiencies of body-on-frame construction, RWD, a live rear axle, and a gas tank under the floor, which meant the spare had to be in the trunk, rather than in a well underneath.
I think I'd actually be pretty happy with the Accord, as-is. But those two little details would, IMO, make it that much better.
Personally, I think Chevy's current hierarchy is a bit messed up, with too much overlap. Oddly enough, I fit better in the back seat of a Cruze than I do the Malibu, while I'm more comfy in the back of the Malibu than I am the Impala. All tests done with the front seat all the way back, which is where I'd put it. If I was behind a shorter driver, it wouldn't be so bad. Oh, and my head hits the ceiling in the Impala, but not the Cruze or Malibu.
IMO, Ford got a little bad with overlap, with the latest Taurus. While it's bigger than the Fusion, with the exception of the larger trunk, I really don't find there to be any more useable room inside. It doesn't feel any roomier for four people to me than the Fusion does, and what little room is there isn't going to allow you to comfortably seat five or six. At least with the older style 500/Taurus, you got a back seat that was almost limousine-like, and an even bigger trunk.
Wow. You're not only 10" taller than me but have 10" more inseam..... No wonder you need that space. I can fit comfortably in pretty much anything.
We used to test cars by getting my wife to make herself perfectly comfy in the driver's seat and then go sit in the back behind it. Her legs are longer. We passed up a Legacy back when we bought the Accord for that very reason. If I knew my two oldest daughters would top out at 5'2" we'd have bought the Legacy...
I don't know what it is with trunks. 14 cubic feet is OK but I don't see why they can't add a foot or two. Must be some magic number with them.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Some would argue that they don't even have reliability going for them anymore.
If you look at current CU data (and point me to other data if you have something better), Honda is still near the top, Ford is average (with some vehicles that are much better, like the Fusion), and GM, overall, is poor, although there are some GMs better than average - those tend to be the older big sedans.
Who's the big Caddy fan around here? The XTS has a lot of presence, it look like it will be a nice, big comfy car to eat up the miles and travel long distances. It was up on a turn table but the interior looks inviting.
They also brought the ATS and it too was getting some attention. It's a bit generic looking, but has enough Caddy DNA that you won't have to guess what it is.
They had both the 130 and 140 concepts from NAIAS, that was quick. The Tru 140 looks great in person, but up close you see how much of a concept it is, so it doesn't seem production feasible at all.
The 130 had a more production-ready shape to it, but the RWD drivetrain may make it less likely, ironically.
Both look quite good in person.
They had plenty of Veranos and it was the first time I got inside one of those. The interior is decent enough, but I really prefer the Regal. I wonder if Buick really needs so many sedans so close in size, seems overkill.
They had the Encore up on a turn table, that thing looks tiny. It may be bigger than the Juke, perhaps EX35-sized. The opposite is true here - there is WAY too big of a gap between the Encore and the Enclave. Buick is missing the sweet spot in the middle. Maybe the Saab 9-4x could change in to a Buick.
They had a couple of loaded up Volts, sat in those. Comfy, nice front seat, but the back seat is cramped, boy is that car small. Definitely smaller then the Cruze next to it. It's also much smaller than the Leaf, which has a roomier, more airy back seat.
The Malibu was roped off as we thought, bummer. They had a nice red one, Eco model. They also brought 2 Sparks but both were locked. One was not roped off, but it was closed so that was a bummer.
Dodge Dart looks good in person, too. They had a cut away but the full car was also roped off. So was the Fusion, one roped off, another on the floor but locked.
Overall a good show, but I do wish I could have gotten in to a few more new cars. I was able to get inside a BRZ, an Infiniti JX, a Ford Raptor and Focus ST (nice seats!), Leaf and Volt, all for the first time.
Biggest disappointment? Surprisingly, the new 328i. BMW had a base model with this thickly textured fake wood trim that was just awful, along with hard plastics, what are they thinking? Fortunately other trims are available, and the 335i was nicer.
Regarding your comment on the base 3-series BMW, advertise the base model pricing to get'em in the door... Then, up-sell them!
Maybe BMW has determined that, to continue their recent growth curve, they're going to have to make a more affordable 3 to get more buyers in the brand.
Just a thought...
Personally, I don't see the point in the three 3-series models' names, but again, that's just me...
People get angry when this gets brought up, but there are a couple THOUSAND comments on Edmunds about Odyssey transmissions, and not merely old models either.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
> but there are a couple THOUSAND comments on Edmunds about Odyssey transmissions, and not merely old models either.
There are discussions about other brand's problems as well. They're not all perfect like some people believe. I have to laugh at the anger some of the people express about how the company is not backing up the product outside of warranty.
People get angry when this gets brought up, but there are a couple THOUSAND comments on Edmunds about Odyssey transmissions, and not merely old models either.
We all know about the problems with Honda Trannys and Toyota sludge and runaway acceleration. But REALLY, all makes have problem areas. And still, Toyota and Honda, OVERALL, are MUCH more reliable, especially at higher miles, than GM in particular. No amount of "my car went 150K with only a new air freshener..." really changes that. I just think GM should be working to get their reliablity rankings up into the top levels. The Volt is very reliable, but how many people buy those? The Cruze...not so much. Even though I think it's a nice car in many ways and certainly one of the nicest GM has produced.
Might be a ploy to sell high profit margins, by offering unappealing stripper models - make people want to upgrade, especially as everything is optional.
OW - You've got to superimpose that graph over market share to see where it is out of whack. I'd want to see problem variation versus market share before I made any judgments. If you've got 26% of the problems and 26% market share is different than 26% problems and 12% market share.
PS - 2005 -11 is too long of a composite in relation to the significant quality improvements in the whole industry the past few years. Also, is the data raw composite or weighted by year, over time, etc?
Might be a ploy to sell high profit margins, by offering unappealing stripper models - make people want to upgrade, especially as everything is optional.
They way BMW sells cars is like going into a brand new housing tract where the price seems pretty decent, and then finding out "oh, you mean you want doors, too? And toilets? That will be extra". And then your $33K car turns into a $49K car.
People get angry when this gets brought up, but there are a couple THOUSAND comments on Edmunds about Odyssey transmissions, and not merely old models either.
I personally am not aware of any other 'issue' forums on Edmunds with more posts than this one.
Hey, and I bet most of them aren't even CR subscribers, either :P .
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Even if others/a majority ageed with your opinion, the problem is Focus and Cruze have unreliable baggage in their names and makers (Cruze less so since it's a new name, but too close to Cobalt).
I totally enjoy my Cobalt and it's been totally reliable. Sits out all the time in every kind of inclement weather too. I believe because some latte-sipping 30-ish auto writers deemed them uncool, sheeple just bought into it all.
I am stunned how completely quiet and smooth it is at idle, and on the highway. I've said this before, but my two coworkers comment on those two qualities also in our 300-mile monthly commute to work. And the one has a Civic and a Matrix and the other is a diehard Ford guy for forty years.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Well. of course, that's me! I did like the XTS, but the spokesperson on the turntable for the XTS says that Cadillac is planning a direct S-Class/7-Series competitor! I want to see that!
You're missing the point. The perception remains reality when it comes to quality/dependability in the auto market. GM and Chrysler remain the leaders in the complaint arena which needs to change over a long period of time before US auto is proclaimed top quality in the minds of consumers.
1,666 out of 1,989 complaints, or 84%, were filed in December for the major automakers indicated below, with General Motors and Chrysler making up over 50% of the complaints. When compared to unit sales, American Honda had the lowest complaints per 100,000 vehicles sold out of the major automakers for December.
You can compare the unit sales data to complaints. I noticed Buick and Pontiac really hurt GM's numbers. Nissan is high as well.
Here are the YTD Dec. '11 Complaints received. Toyota remains the best automaker regarding satisfaction.
Reality feeds perception and dispute the numbers any way you want but GM is down to 18.4% market share for January 2012, which is 3.4% below their incentive-inflated Jan. 2011 market share. Complaints is only one part of the picture and incentives prove to the customer that the products are not good enough unless they are on sale.
GM needs to do far more than advertise their way out of their decades-long issues.
Wow, despite the fact that a lot of Toyota owners aren't really 'car' people, nobody else's complaints went up in that time frame except theirs. I bring it up since no one else did.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I skipped that post until you brought it up; I just scoll on by those.
It looks to me like American Honda is doing the best. But those graphs are examples of misuse of statistics, or useless interpretations with full facts, even though this graph is from Edmunds. Interpretation is need: just like the jobs created and jobs lost numbers that just came out. They get spun by the MSM to try to influence the viewers' opinions without the full information about the percent of the population working having dropped even more, which is a more useful piece of information.
But those graphs are examples of misuse of statistics, or useless interpretations with full facts, even though this graph is from Edmunds.
Strongly agree. Need to match total quantity of complaints each year to total quantity of sales. That would be more useful, but still not comprehensive enough unless we start drilling down into the types, severity of complaints. For each car company, over each of last 5-10 years, are the complaints about "serious" types of matters increasing or decreasing would be a key question.
In the same article on edmunds you failed to point out that complaints per 100k vehicles sold shows very little difference among manufacturers except for Chrysler.
I totally enjoy my Cobalt and it's been totally reliable
I agree. My son's Cobalt is a fine car. He Drives alot and now has 80K miles. My other son has a VW Jetta, and having driven the Cobalt and ridden in the VW I would consider the Cobalt superior in almost every way, eg. Engine NVH, acceleration, noise, ride and seat comfort.
Funny how misuse is defined these days. GM is the epitomy of historical misuse in the corporate world, wouldn't you agree??
Don't you know that fanboys will always insult statistics if they contradict a good story for their favorite brand? The statistics then are dumb, from sheeple, from biased sources, from liberal weenies, etc. And besides, THEIR car from fancompany has been fabulous!
The only valid statistics are the ones that support their POV.
My other son has a VW Jetta, and having driven the Cobalt and ridden in the VW I would consider the Cobalt superior in almost every way, eg. Engine NVH, acceleration, noise, ride and seat comfort.
I haven't really looked at a current gen Jetta, but I have driven the previous two models and there is a big difference between a base engine model and the TDI and 2.0 FSI models. The 2.0 FSI is a gem. VW's 2.0 4cyl sucks, they brought back for this year and it's likely the worst 4cyl available from any make. It was lousy in '00 and it has changed little since then. The 2.5 5cyl is still not an engine I'd be happy with. But the 2.0L diesel and the 2.0L turbo DI 4cyl are great. Drive a Jetta GLI and you'll have a completely different driving experience.
Don't you know that fanboys will always insult statistics if they contradict a good story for their favorite brand?
I don't understand how a few on this thread are so enamored with GM.
I'm a Ford fan, but the idea I'm only going to a Ford dealer for my next vehicle seems odd to me. I like variety. I really do like the new F150, and outside of styling, I believe it is the best pickup available overall. But now that I've had a Ford for several years, and my wife also has a Ford, I'm getting an itch to drive something from another make. I really don't want two vehicles from the same make in my driveway.
But with trucks it's a little different as there are not as many choices. The Dodge doesn't have the cargo or towing capacity, GM trucks are dated and lack the powertrain line up. I might put off buying until the new GM trucks are available. If I was buying a 3/4 ton truck then the choice would even be tougher.
Market share, customer service, dependability, quality, etc. are key metrics that the US auto companies forgot about up until they begged to be saved, regardless of the support the competition got from their governments. The products are getting better but the competition hade a huge head start.
Their legacy is written in history. Should have changed their name(s).
As far as problem reporting goes, I agree that it's important to understand the type of complaint/ severity of problem being measured.
Simply lumping complaints all together in one bucket is a measurement exercise that provides no useful information.
Hasn't CR caught some flak recently about not defining actual problems from owner complaints/dislikes in their reporting, or am I thinking of a different reporting organization?
In any case, BMW suffered from reported complaints when iDrive was first introduced. It worked, but for many owners, it was difficult for them to understand. More recently, Ford has had the same experience with its in-car SYNC & MyFord Touch systems, where customers said it was difficult to use, didn't work correctly or at a minimum, not as user friendly as competitors' options.
I can't speak for others, but I see a huge difference between being stranded on the side of the road .vs. not being able to "intuit" my car's GPS.
It DOES matter, of course, but the two issues are of a completely different magnitude.
Comments
Okay, so we have to provide federal aid to compete fairly, but why for incompetent GM and Chrysler. They are morons from top to bottom over there.
I'd rather see BILLIONS of my tax payer money go to a new better corporation, say, Fintail Motors, and Andres Automobiles +. Heck, even Lemko Motors sounds better than GM.
That's what 30 years of crappy products will do for your reputation.
The key to success is a great competitive product, plus a lot of time.
Or it could have been cheaper to just make the decent cars in the first place.
They are definitely slipping a lot. They do still have reliability going for them. But the slightly sporty and agile driving, with really good interiors, is pretty much gone. No big advantage any more.
Money well spent?? :P
Regards,
OW
Some would argue that they don't even have reliability going for them anymore.
I don't know about the Accord, but I know the Civic went to struts on the redesign a few years ago.
As for Accords being too big, that depends on what the prospective buyer wants.......I bought my first one when they "grew up". Others may have left the fold to look for something smaller.
What else should I check out?
The BRZ is there but it's roped off.
I hope the Dart's there. And the Fusion.
I'd rather spend money on industrial concerns than endless aid to ungrateful nations, gifts for the 1%, and make work projects for self-titled private sector companies.
With the way the Civic has grown over the years, I don't think there's any need for a car to slot between it and the Accord.
For the Accord to be perfect for me, they'd need to reconfigure it and move the back seat about an inch back. That would make it big enough to fit four people my height 6'3", with a 36" inseam) in the car, with the front seats all the way back, and nobody's knees hitting the seatback. Oh, and give it a trunk of around 16 cubic feet which, IMO, is more or less the standard for a "true" midsized car. And, Honda could do both of these without making the car any bigger on the outside. Cars like the Malibu, Fusion, and even the Cruze are sporting 16 cubic foot trunks. The '02-06 Camry had a 17 cubic foot trunk, although the '07 restyle lopped that to around 15 cubic feet.
But, the things I'm suggesting are probably a result of me coming off cars like my Park Ave, '79 New Yorker, or even my old 1980 Malibu. Which, incidentally, managed to have a 17 cubic foot trunk (I think it was actually 16.6) despite the inefficiencies of body-on-frame construction, RWD, a live rear axle, and a gas tank under the floor, which meant the spare had to be in the trunk, rather than in a well underneath.
I think I'd actually be pretty happy with the Accord, as-is. But those two little details would, IMO, make it that much better.
Personally, I think Chevy's current hierarchy is a bit messed up, with too much overlap. Oddly enough, I fit better in the back seat of a Cruze than I do the Malibu, while I'm more comfy in the back of the Malibu than I am the Impala. All tests done with the front seat all the way back, which is where I'd put it. If I was behind a shorter driver, it wouldn't be so bad. Oh, and my head hits the ceiling in the Impala, but not the Cruze or Malibu.
IMO, Ford got a little bad with overlap, with the latest Taurus. While it's bigger than the Fusion, with the exception of the larger trunk, I really don't find there to be any more useable room inside. It doesn't feel any roomier for four people to me than the Fusion does, and what little room is there isn't going to allow you to comfortably seat five or six. At least with the older style 500/Taurus, you got a back seat that was almost limousine-like, and an even bigger trunk.
We used to test cars by getting my wife to make herself perfectly comfy in the driver's seat and then go sit in the back behind it. Her legs are longer. We passed up a Legacy back when we bought the Accord for that very reason. If I knew my two oldest daughters would top out at 5'2" we'd have bought the Legacy...
I don't know what it is with trunks. 14 cubic feet is OK but I don't see why they can't add a foot or two. Must be some magic number with them.
If you look at current CU data (and point me to other data if you have something better), Honda is still near the top, Ford is average (with some vehicles that are much better, like the Fusion), and GM, overall, is poor, although there are some GMs better than average - those tend to be the older big sedans.
Who's the big Caddy fan around here? The XTS has a lot of presence, it look like it will be a nice, big comfy car to eat up the miles and travel long distances. It was up on a turn table but the interior looks inviting.
They also brought the ATS and it too was getting some attention. It's a bit generic looking, but has enough Caddy DNA that you won't have to guess what it is.
They had both the 130 and 140 concepts from NAIAS, that was quick. The Tru 140 looks great in person, but up close you see how much of a concept it is, so it doesn't seem production feasible at all.
The 130 had a more production-ready shape to it, but the RWD drivetrain may make it less likely, ironically.
Both look quite good in person.
They had plenty of Veranos and it was the first time I got inside one of those. The interior is decent enough, but I really prefer the Regal. I wonder if Buick really needs so many sedans so close in size, seems overkill.
They had the Encore up on a turn table, that thing looks tiny. It may be bigger than the Juke, perhaps EX35-sized. The opposite is true here - there is WAY too big of a gap between the Encore and the Enclave. Buick is missing the sweet spot in the middle. Maybe the Saab 9-4x could change in to a Buick.
They had a couple of loaded up Volts, sat in those. Comfy, nice front seat, but the back seat is cramped, boy is that car small. Definitely smaller then the Cruze next to it. It's also much smaller than the Leaf, which has a roomier, more airy back seat.
The Malibu was roped off as we thought, bummer. They had a nice red one, Eco model. They also brought 2 Sparks but both were locked. One was not roped off, but it was closed so that was a bummer.
Dodge Dart looks good in person, too. They had a cut away but the full car was also roped off. So was the Fusion, one roped off, another on the floor but locked.
Overall a good show, but I do wish I could have gotten in to a few more new cars. I was able to get inside a BRZ, an Infiniti JX, a Ford Raptor and Focus ST (nice seats!), Leaf and Volt, all for the first time.
Biggest disappointment? Surprisingly, the new 328i. BMW had a base model with this thickly textured fake wood trim that was just awful, along with hard plastics, what are they thinking? Fortunately other trims are available, and the 335i was nicer.
Maybe BMW has determined that, to continue their recent growth curve, they're going to have to make a more affordable 3 to get more buyers in the brand.
Just a thought...
Personally, I don't see the point in the three 3-series models' names, but again, that's just me...
Oh, come on! He'll identify himself soon. Hint: I was at the Philly Auto Show with him last Saturday.
What color was the Dart? The one in Philly was white. I'd love seeing one in a different color.
Yeah, I'd like a Regal more than a Verano but there's certainly a price advantage to the latter.
I wouldn't want to be in the back of a Cruze on a long trip - that battery down the middle would eventually be annoying but it's nicely done.
Regards,
OW
There are discussions about other brand's problems as well. They're not all perfect like some people believe. I have to laugh at the anger some of the people express about how the company is not backing up the product outside of warranty.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
We all know about the problems with Honda Trannys and Toyota sludge and runaway acceleration. But REALLY, all makes have problem areas. And still, Toyota and Honda, OVERALL, are MUCH more reliable, especially at higher miles, than GM in particular. No amount of "my car went 150K with only a new air freshener..." really changes that. I just think GM should be working to get their reliablity rankings up into the top levels. The Volt is very reliable, but how many people buy those? The Cruze...not so much. Even though I think it's a nice car in many ways and certainly one of the nicest GM has produced.
They way BMW sells cars is like going into a brand new housing tract where the price seems pretty decent, and then finding out "oh, you mean you want doors, too? And toilets? That will be extra". And then your $33K car turns into a $49K car.
I personally am not aware of any other 'issue' forums on Edmunds with more posts than this one.
Hey, and I bet most of them aren't even CR subscribers, either :P .
I totally enjoy my Cobalt and it's been totally reliable. Sits out all the time in every kind of inclement weather too. I believe because some latte-sipping 30-ish auto writers deemed them uncool, sheeple just bought into it all.
I am stunned how completely quiet and smooth it is at idle, and on the highway. I've said this before, but my two coworkers comment on those two qualities also in our 300-mile monthly commute to work. And the one has a Civic and a Matrix and the other is a diehard Ford guy for forty years.
1,666 out of 1,989 complaints, or 84%, were filed in December for the major automakers indicated below, with General Motors and Chrysler making up over 50% of the complaints. When compared to unit sales, American Honda had the lowest complaints per 100,000 vehicles sold out of the major automakers for December.
NHTSA December '11 Complaint Activity Report
You can compare the unit sales data to complaints. I noticed Buick and Pontiac really hurt GM's numbers. Nissan is high as well.
Here are the YTD Dec. '11 Complaints received. Toyota remains the best automaker regarding satisfaction.
Reality feeds perception and dispute the numbers any way you want but GM is down to 18.4% market share for January 2012, which is 3.4% below their incentive-inflated Jan. 2011 market share. Complaints is only one part of the picture and incentives prove to the customer that the products are not good enough unless they are on sale.
GM needs to do far more than advertise their way out of their decades-long issues.
Regards,
OW
I skipped that post until you brought it up; I just scoll on by those.
It looks to me like American Honda is doing the best. But those graphs are examples of misuse of statistics, or useless interpretations with full facts, even though this graph is from Edmunds. Interpretation is need: just like the jobs created and jobs lost numbers that just came out. They get spun by the MSM to try to influence the viewers' opinions without the full information about the percent of the population working having dropped even more, which is a more useful piece of information.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Like I said, Toyota is the leader in lowest complaints.
Regards,
OW
Funny how misuse is defined these days. GM is the epitomy of historical misuse in the corporate world, wouldn't you agree??
At least they were thrown off the Dow Industrials!
Regards,
OW
Strongly agree. Need to match total quantity of complaints each year to total quantity of sales. That would be more useful, but still not comprehensive enough unless we start drilling down into the types, severity of complaints. For each car company, over each of last 5-10 years, are the complaints about "serious" types of matters increasing or decreasing would be a key question.
You're right. Big "duh" on my part. I'm not accustomed to see previous years' data presented first, as it is on this graph.
Complaints per 100k vehicles sold:
GM: 1.9
Chysler: 4.0
Nissan: 2.1
Honda: 1.3
Toyota: 1.4
Others with bad statistics:
BMW: 2.9
VW: 3.2
Mini: 6.2
The best:
Lincoln: 0.4
I agree. My son's Cobalt is a fine car. He Drives alot and now has 80K miles. My other son has a VW Jetta, and having driven the Cobalt and ridden in the VW I would consider the Cobalt superior in almost every way, eg. Engine NVH, acceleration, noise, ride and seat comfort.
Don't you know that fanboys will always insult statistics if they contradict a good story for their favorite brand? The statistics then are dumb, from sheeple, from biased sources, from liberal weenies, etc. And besides, THEIR car from fancompany has been fabulous!
The only valid statistics are the ones that support their POV.
I haven't really looked at a current gen Jetta, but I have driven the previous two models and there is a big difference between a base engine model and the TDI and 2.0 FSI models. The 2.0 FSI is a gem. VW's 2.0 4cyl sucks, they brought back for this year and it's likely the worst 4cyl available from any make. It was lousy in '00 and it has changed little since then. The 2.5 5cyl is still not an engine I'd be happy with. But the 2.0L diesel and the 2.0L turbo DI 4cyl are great. Drive a Jetta GLI and you'll have a completely different driving experience.
I don't understand how a few on this thread are so enamored with GM.
I'm a Ford fan, but the idea I'm only going to a Ford dealer for my next vehicle seems odd to me. I like variety. I really do like the new F150, and outside of styling, I believe it is the best pickup available overall. But now that I've had a Ford for several years, and my wife also has a Ford, I'm getting an itch to drive something from another make. I really don't want two vehicles from the same make in my driveway.
But with trucks it's a little different as there are not as many choices. The Dodge doesn't have the cargo or towing capacity, GM trucks are dated and lack the powertrain line up. I might put off buying until the new GM trucks are available. If I was buying a 3/4 ton truck then the choice would even be tougher.
Market share, customer service, dependability, quality, etc. are key metrics that the US auto companies forgot about up until they begged to be saved, regardless of the support the competition got from their governments. The products are getting better but the competition hade a huge head start.
Their legacy is written in history. Should have changed their name(s).
Regards,
OW
Simply lumping complaints all together in one bucket is a measurement exercise that provides no useful information.
Hasn't CR caught some flak recently about not defining actual problems from owner complaints/dislikes in their reporting, or am I thinking of a different reporting organization?
In any case, BMW suffered from reported complaints when iDrive was first introduced. It worked, but for many owners, it was difficult for them to understand. More recently, Ford has had the same experience with its in-car SYNC & MyFord Touch systems, where customers said it was difficult to use, didn't work correctly or at a minimum, not as user friendly as competitors' options.
I can't speak for others, but I see a huge difference between being stranded on the side of the road .vs. not being able to "intuit" my car's GPS.
It DOES matter, of course, but the two issues are of a completely different magnitude.