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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think that's a pretty fair assessment tiong, but you've got to remember that outside of something like a Suburban, SUV's aren't going to be able to carry stuff near as well as a minivan. That's why I had a minivan until all of my kids graduated from college. I think these GM I've rented are nicer than the Explorer's I've recently had (the Explorer has a nicer leather seat, but cramped legroom for my 6'3"frame). The gas mileage isn't good on any of them, but the GM may be a bit better than the Durango/Grand Cherokee and a tad behind the Explorer, and I think the GM outhaul them (but the Dodge/Jeep probably are best for off road type conditions). The Japanese models like Highlander and Pilot tend to be smaller, so they get better mileage. They are also comfortable if you don't need as much space. If you've got to use the third row, the GM are probably best of the lot (but the minivans make more sense in that situation as well). The GM also excel at cross country driving comfort. At least that is how I view them after driving rentals, and I think moving up to an Acadia or Enclave makes a bit of a difference as well.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think you are probably on the mark fintail. Korean cars just don't seem to have that great of handling and ride. I expect the Caddy will be noticeably nicer on long ride comfort as well.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,974
    Korean cars just don't seem to have that great of handling and ride.

    The suspension on my Genesis was a train wreck. It handled pretty well, but the ride needed a lot of tuning IMHO.

    My Fiance has an 08 Elantra and while it doesn't excel in either category it is more than acceptable.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,024
    I'm honestly not crazy about either one. I don't like the proportions of the Caddy. It looks like a jumbo hatchback with a minivan front-end and a Caddy grille tacked on. But, at least it looks like a Cadillac! The Equus is okay to look at, but just seems generic to me.

    I think the Caddy's proportions are hurt by the transverse FWD layout, which puts the front axle too far back towards the firewall, and gives it too much front overhang.

    IMO, if they gave it about 6" more wheelbase, all of it in front of the firewall, with a correspondingly longer hood and front fenders, I think it would improve the proportions considerably. Unfortunately, that would make the car bigger without really adding any useful space, and might make it *too* big for today's audiences.

    Or, if they made the windshield just a little more upright, so the thing wasn't so cab-forward, and did the same with the rear, so it had just a bit of decklid, I think it would improve the proportions as well.

    But, who knows? Maybe it'll look better in person, and grow on me?
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,974
    IMO, if they gave it about 6" more wheelbase, all of it in front of the firewall, with a correspondingly longer hood and front fenders, I think it would improve the proportions considerably. Unfortunately, that would make the car bigger without really adding any useful space, and might make it *too* big for today's audiences.

    So in other words you want an 89 Brougham..... :P

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Genesis has to be being dumped on the market at a loss

    I think so. I bet we'll see a MUCH higher price for the next generation.

    They sell the Azera with Navi standard now, to keep them above Sonata prices. I'm sure they'll do something similar to the next Genesis, to avoid overlap.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bro-HAMM.

    Loved that movie.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,024
    So in other words you want an 89 Brougham.....

    Well, I wouldn't complain! :shades:

    I just looked at the specs for the XTS on Caddy's website. Looks like it's on a 111.7" wb, 202" long, and 72.9" wide. So, it's actually fairly trim.

    Is the XTS based on the LaCrosse, by any chance? Those dimensions make me think it is, just with a longer rump to give it more trunk space. I was under the impression that the XTS was going to be something all-new and larger, and then the 2014 Impala was going to be based on that?

    The Caddy website also says it has 45.8" of front legroom! I find that a bit suspect, as the LaCrosse is only rated at 41.7", and even the most generous cars usually top out around 43, 43.5" at best.

    By the same token though, 41.7" seems a bit low for the LaCrosse.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,974
    edited May 2012
    Is the XTS based on the LaCrosse, by any chance?

    Yes it is an Epsilon II varient.

    The 41.7 is probably right. The Avalon is within a half inch of that and they are very close (having owned both)>

    I can't believe that figure is accurate in the Caddy.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Good comments berri. I forgot to re-mention my initial observation that while some of the interior details are "fancier" (such as chrome handles and rings, etc.), the cheap dash plastics bring the interior downmarket even though it wouldn't be that tough (or I suspect that expensive) to improve the interior to a much nicer level of consistency. I have read on Edmunds that the 2013 Traverse is supposed to have an improved interior, so perhaps they're addressing that. If I were spending my own $30K+ on a Traverse I would be put off by having a vehicle with a cheap interior. It at least should be "decent". The Mazda CX-5 I recently test drove had a much nicer overall interior than the Traverse at a lot cheaper price point (although it's a smaller vehicle). GM has done better interiors in a lot of its cars, it just should do the same for the Traverse.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,430
    I think some of the Caddy's overall profile is meant to somewhat resemble the Sixteen concept...I kind of see it anyway.

    No offense to lemko, but I think it is worlds better looking than the DTS, too.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,430
    Maybe not too much, but I could see a 20% gain. Anything more will put it too close to the Germans, and other than in variants that sell to virtually nobody, it aint close to that yet. And even that 20% gain might only put it to truly running in the black. I'd seriously like to know the cash flow generated by that car. Just like Lexus dumped the original LS, I think the Genesis is being managed likewise.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Wife: Don't ask. You don't want to know.
    GM CFO: Ah, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/05/gm-didnt-disclose-6- 00000-deal-for-cfos-wifes-firm/1

    "Charles Elson, director of the Weinberg Center for Corporate Governance at the University of Delaware, said it's not uncommon for executives to have to disclose deals that benefit their spouses. "The question is, how did they miss it?"

    He added: "How much of that did she share in? It's certainly something shareholders would want to know."

    It must be those underpaid execs, need to find other ways to supplement their minimal pay.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    My problem with things like this isn't so much that they happen, but that the people involved act like ..."oopsie!... Sorry".

    When you get paid the big bucks like these jokers get paid, you're supposed to have the wherewithal to know the rules.

    Like Enron, Worldcom and the like, these top echelon dudes always claim "Oh, I had no idea...it was a secret being kept from me...some underling did it, and I had no knowledge"...

    The shareholder is being promised Kobe steak, yet being served a cheap hot dog.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited May 2012
    The slide continues....

    image

    Perhaps the GM Top Brass didn't know they are still loosing market share. :surprise:

    Hint, Hint...

    Regards,
    OW
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2012
    Maybe they've figured out that market share doesn't equal profit. Second quarter results won't be out until the end of June.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,974
    I would rather be profitable than own the market. The two should go hand and hand but we know that certainly doesn't always happen.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited May 2012
    Maybe they've figured out that market share doesn't equal profit. Second quarter results won't be out until the end of June.

    Maybe...but indications are profit will be down as well. Europe and slowing growth in the USA, don't you know! ;)

    While the world's largest automaker posted a first-quarter profit that surpassed forecasts, the outlook for its key market fell short of expectations. GM's results echoed those of smaller rival Ford Motor Co, which last week also posted a stronger-than-expected profit, but offered a disappointing forecast.

    GM's North American results in the first quarter were also shy of Wall Street's expectations.

    "Economic growth may be moderating to some degree," said Josef Schuster, president of iPox Schuster, which owns GM shares. "It's going to hit GM in terms of sales and revenue outlook."

    GM executives said the U.S. economy was getting better, but in fits and starts.

    "We're clearly seeing some improvement in the economy," Chief Financial Officer Dan Ammann told reporters on Thursday. "It's a modest underlying improvement, but it's patchy and it won't necessarily all go in a straight line."

    GM said it expected its core North American results in the second and third quarters to largely match the first quarter due to scheduled downtime at its large truck plants. Citi analyst Itay Michaeli said the outlook implied adjusted earnings in North America in the first nine
    months of $5.1 billion, well short of the $5.6 billion he was expecting.

    Meanwhile, "We're Number 2" is projected to gain vs. The "New GM".

    Toyota Forecasts Profit Will Double to Highest in 5 Years

    Still, Toyota’s projections indicate it will earn more than GM (GM), which last week reported net income fell 61 percent to $1.32 billion on losses and restructuring costs in Europe. Analysts estimate the Detroit-based company will earn $7.38 billion over the next four quarters, excluding preferred dividends, which last year totaled $1.61 billion.

    Regards,
    OW
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited May 2012
    I agree. Isn't the attempt to own the market a big reason GM got into such a bind?

    Sometimes, it's better to execute a few things in a great way .vs. do everything in a moderate way.

    Look at Apple. When Jobs came back to the company he slashed the myriad product offerings and focused on a relatively narrow product line. Looks like it worked pretty well for Apple.

    BMW is pretty successful, but you don't (at least, not yet) see BMW pickup trucks on the road here.

    It's an important lesson often lost on big company upper management bigwigs, who see success as dominating all segments within the market they service.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I think you're right; Europe is going to drag down a lot of companies in the near future. China seems to be slowing down too.

    Toyota worries me a bit too - I' m not convinced that the nuke crisis is over, what with all those fuel rods lying around. Another big quake and some bad luck and they could have all sorts of supply and production problems if they have to evacuate some more areas. Best thing they could do is crank up the Tupelo factory.

    Maybe even kick Fisker out and move back in with GM in NUMMI.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    BMW is pretty successful, but you don't (at least, not yet) see BMW pickup trucks on the road here.

    Yeah, I remember thinking how nice it was when they didn't have an SUV...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    When you can drive this yourself?

    "A day of driving during the press introduction at Virginia International Raceway here — a fast, challenging road course near the North Carolina border — revealed a Camaro that evokes blue-ribbon sport coupes like the BMW M3. Except that the ZL1 surely gets around V.I.R. much quicker.

    Given the tenuous nature of G.M.’s survival a few years ago, it’s faintly amazing that Chevy now builds a muscle car capable of lapping the Nürburgring hot on the heels of a machine like the Porsche 911 Turbo. Call the ZL1 heavy, call it expensive, but don’t call it just a Camaro with a supercharger."

    Muscles on Its Muscles, but Nuance in Its Soul (NY Times)
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    The 2013 Shelby GT500 should be a step beyond the ZL1, and for about the same price. The GT500 will be a supercharged 5.8L making 660+hp, 200+ mph machine on the Nurburgring straight. I also believe the Shelby will not get hit with a gas guzzler tax.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Saw a Shelby GT500 at Sam's Club yesterday...sweet sound and great looking.

    Waiting to spot a ZL-1....

    Regards,
    OW
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,342
    I saw a ZL1 at the Chevy booth at Indy last week- impressive. While I think I'd take a Boss 302, this is a GREAT time to be an auto enthusiast; there are a ton of excellent and quick cars at virtually every price point.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    You nailed my choice...Boss 302 all the way for me! :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,342
    edited May 2012
    Now, if Chevy would roll out that Code 130R Concept with @300-400 bhp and a serious suspension and brakes, I might change my mind...

    image

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Nice dream but Chevy never would allow anything north of 150 bhp otherwise hindering Camaro sales.

    Agree if they match your dream, it really would be a "New GM" baby!

    I'll bet they don't have the B----. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not convinced that the nuke crisis is over

    I just heard on the radio today that tuna migrated over from there, and have 10 times the usual levels of radiation.

    If the can glows in the dark, don't eat it. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It wouldn't need to be overly powerful.

    They could target the FT86 with 200 or so, and not even overlap with the V6 Camaro.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just a heads up, if you see a Chevy display, they were handing out T-shirts yesterday at Six Flags, just sign up for their mailing list.

    All 4 of us got one. White shirt, simple old school logo, pretty cool actually, 1950s style.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I assure you, radiation levels have had absolutely no effect on the tuna!

    image
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Hmmmm....

    Tuna comes Pre-cooked now???
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I just heard on the radio today that tuna migrated over from there, and have 10 times the usual levels of radiation.

    Yes but the levels are far below levels considered harmful. What I heard equates it to one dental x-ray.

    My solution - don't eat blue fin tuna.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I'm a fan of Salmon myself. Yes, it's farm-raised, but that's actually better. If you knew how bad the oceans are and how close to mass die-offs it all is, you'd never touch anything that wasn't from a farm.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Last I checked, farm raised salmon was being raised in the oceans. Bad for the native stock if you ask me.

    Hm, now GM is going to tie up with Man United. Not sure how the Tottenham Hotspur crowd is going to take that.

    GM Prepares to Make Chevy, Manchester United Announcement (Business Week).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Speaking of soccer, look for me at the USA vs. Brazil game tonight. I'll be the one with the broken heart-shaped poster.

    Wife is American, I'm from Brazil. :shades:

    Maybe we'll all wear our new Chevy shirts so the 4 of us match. ;)
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yes but the levels are far below levels considered harmful. What I heard equates it to one dental x-ray.

    Yeah, but how often does a tuna go to the dentist? :confuse:
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2012
    Oh, oh, got a couple of bitewings at the dentist last week and had seared tuna for dinner tonight.

    Guess I'll start glowing like a Jalapeño Spark.

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's a good looking car for its segment. They usually look like boxes. The headlights are peeled back quite a bit, but other than that they nailed the styling.

    Bright colors like that will make the brochures and TV ads but they'll only make 2% of them that color.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    You never know - may depend on what demographic they're trying to appeal to. I see more "funky"-colored Souls than I do traditional-colored ones.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,974
    Yep, there is a green color that is pretty popular here.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited June 2012
    Against Toyota, says Cars.com:

    http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2012/05/carscom-recommends-the-2012-toyota-pr- - ius-c.html

    I find that rather hilarious.

    This ain't the first time CR goes up against Toyota - remember the drift-tastic Lexus GX? They put a "Do Not Buy" stamp on it, even though a Jeep they tested also skidded out in their tests and got no such stamp (maybe they felt sorry since they were bankrupt at the time?).

    Cars.com says the Prius C is more affordable than a Sonic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/201- 2/Jun/gmsales.html

    GM Reports Highest Monthly Sales in 33 Months

    The market was way up, but a year ago a lot of competitors had no supply due to the tsunami so these are gains over a good month last year.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited June 2012
    Wow... Check out the number of days supply GM has on hand, especially in trucks in your link above...

    In related news...

    http://usat.ly/LdwfCW

    And, the cars being purchased are being sold for more, too...

    http://usat.ly/KvOIfX
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Great numbers. Have to wonder when it's all going to stall out with the lack of job growth and pain in Europe. Nice that cheap credit is back. And "cheap" gas.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    There was a time I would never have considered $3/gallon cheap.

    It's all relative, I guess.. When I was 16 you could buy a name brand loaf of bread for $.30, and a gallon of gas for the same price. Just like today...

    I feel old sometimes...
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Oh my FIL talks like that all the time.

    Then I remind him he was making $30 a week back then - and he was doing good.
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    edited June 2012
    There was a time I would never have considered $3/gallon cheap.

    Even today the price of gasoline is cheap. I remember in 2009 a gallon gasoline was cheaper than a gallon of (non-premium) bottled water. Read more at
    http://lewrockwell.com/armentano-d/armentano29.1.html
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,430
    $30 a week? What would that be, 1940? I think gas was around 30 cents/gallon ca. 1965.
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