GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    My lowly 40K LaCrosse has that

    Heck, my going-on-thirteen-years-old Park Ave has that! :P
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,058
    The first car I ever drove with it was my buddy's 95 Grand Prix GTP. I thought it was a really cool feature. 17 years later I feel the same way!

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    edited June 2012
    >I don't get the Regal either. It is not a premium car in the home market

    The Regal has been a placeholder while the general realignment of Buick has been occurring. The lower performance engine is there in a cheaper to build model to give a low price for the Buick Division for entry buyers.

    Now that Verano has taken the place as a lower cost Buick, the accoutrements of the Regal will move upscale such as no cloth seat version and move to better powered models other than a tip-of-the-hat to the electric motor assist model which will be priced equal the turbo model.

    The glass is half full.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    edited June 2012
    I can see the logic in that. And the Regal as it is now has sold so few, it doesn't have a bad image to overcome, as it is still a relative unknown. I wonder if the next Opel Insignia will be the next Regal, it is a few years old now. And the current one is a good used or year end buy, too. For 22K, a leather/roof Regal even with the base engine is a more attractive than a bland spec Camcordimapalanatabuion, at least to me.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Were you led to believe from the OP's post that this had to do with Chevrolets sold in North America? I sure was. Wrong. But then, this was the same guy who posted about a 'new' Corvette recall that was in actuality, from three years prior.

    I did think it was referring to the US until I read more posts and then re-checked the URL. I was a bit surprised that JD Power serves the UK as well as the states, given that they are a US-based research firm.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    They are both female, young, etc

    ...and just like cars, its all about the looks and bodies!
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I don't get the Regal either.

    I don't get Buick, either (at least in the US market).
    Plenty of companies that are large (Toyota?) get away with 2 divisions, or 3 max. While GM has improved (dumping Saturn, Hummer, Olds, and Pontiac) - what exactly are the differentiators for GMC, Chevy, and Buick? Caddy I understand. Chevy I sort of understand. GMC and Buick I don't understand at all.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    ...and just like cars, its all about the looks and bodies!

    Let's not forget the output!...
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    ...or should that be input?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited June 2012
    GMC likely is kept around solely to give Caddy and Buick dealers pickups to sell.

    I don't know if that's a good idea or not. Many dealers survive without a truck lineup. My local MB/Volvo, and BMW dealers don't sell trucks. Neither does my local Honda or Subaru dealer.

    Granted, the GMC brand does seem to work and I certainly prefer the styling of a Sierra over a Silverado.

    As for Buick, I don't have a clue. Honestly, the bankruptcy probably has hamstrung GM more than most of us realize. Development pretty much stopped on several projects.

    While GM is doing well with what they have, they are behind in some key areas.

    Powertrain developement is way behind outside of the Volt. Just look at what Ford has put out since 2010 and you can see GM hasn't been able to keep up.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cigarettes are like $8 a pack around here anymore

    They were $10 in NYC. I never smoked but heard a guy whining (duh - quit!).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited June 2012
    Oh, and 50K for a 328? Really? I thought the 335 would hit 50, but not the 28.

    I also felt like that comparison was ridiculous. You could get a G37 for a lot less than that 328, yet they tested base engines so it was a G25.

    I drove a 328 yesterday and the start/stop on it is so bad it's the type of thing you do write home about. It feels like an earth quake every time it operates. Horrible.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Chicago Tribune had article last Sunday that GM will be selling a Chevy V8 sedan in 2013. Based on police car, Australian influence, and the NASCAR Sprint Cup cars will resemble its styling.

    On 4-cylinder Buicks. This apparently is the trend. Even higher end German makers such as Mercedes and BMW will be making more of their models with 4-cylinders. That is OK if priced appropriately, no more than 20's. But, BMW making some 4-cylinders that could be priced into high 30's, 40's. Who would buy a 4-cylinder BMW with msrp in the 40's?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Some cars try to be all things to all people.

    When you try to build a luxury fuel sipper that is also fast, the results are mixed at best.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Yes, the start/stop on the 328 sucks.

    Fortunately, it can easily be switched off.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Now that Verano has taken the place as a lower cost Buick, the accoutrements of the Regal will move upscale such as no cloth seat version and move to better powered models other than a tip-of-the-hat to the electric motor assist model which will be priced equal the turbo model.

    The glass is half full.


    That is the continuing GM story. Still behind, as usual. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What's up with these oddball airbag deployments?

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/06/watch-gm-engineers-cadillac-cts-v-wagon-blow-- its-airbag-during/

    That's not the first....

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/14/camaro-airbag-spontaneously-deploys-while-dri- fting/

    Maybe they need a track mode to disable the sensors or something. Both were with high lateral loads.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    That's just GM's airbags being very protective even during spirited driving.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Are you an active duty member of the U.S. military in the process of shopping for a new or used car? A news reporter is interested in talking with you. Please contact pr@edmunds.com by June 30, 2012.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    :D

    It's the car's way of saying "drifting is the synchronized swimming of motorsports".
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    It's the car's way of saying "drifting is the synchronized swimming of motorsports".

    No, it's just that the GM vehicles handle so well and the tires are so grippy that the lateral acceleration is similar to having a side impact. So the airbags inflate, even without a collision. :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They need HANS devices standard on those performance cars. ;)
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Evidently, the 4-cylinder F-30 BMW's are selling rather well...

    Once you turn off the start/stop function, it's a nice riding car.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    Brake pedals made of fiberglass that break.
    Airbag seat sensors that crack and won't work.

    Both of these sound like cost-cutting to the maximum and minimization of the quality of major, important things in the cars. Outrageous.

    Makes me wonder where else they have cut costs and materials in a dangerous way.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Agreed, but let's all be honest here for a moment.

    Cost cutting isn't anything new.

    Ask former Pinto and Vega owners.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    The Pinto (Ford) cost saving was long, long ago. These incidents from Kia and cost-cutting from other featured companies are more current. It all depends on whether the bean counters get caught short or not. Often good or new design ideas end up causing problems later don't display in short time road testing.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    According to latest issue of Autoweek, the 2014 RWD Chevy V8 will share the platform of the next generation of Australia's Commodore Holden and will be built there. It will be called the SS and will be available in late 2013.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The Pinto (Ford) cost saving was long, long ago. These incidents from Kia and cost-cutting from other featured companies are more current.

    Here's a current one from a "featured" company that recently went belly up.

    No excuses for Kia or GM. Failure is failure.

    Improper(CHEAP) Air Bag Sensor - Nov 2011

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited June 2012
    Last month’s sales results were overall fairly positive for Buick, however there was one glaring ugly spot: Regal. The brand’s midsize sedan showed a 40 percent drop in sales year over year, suggesting the car is failing in the marketplace. Buick suggests, however, that the drop in sales is not a surprise as the car moves further upmarket.

    YTD 2012 Buick Verano Sales = 11,578 (2,300/month avg.) Projected sales for 2012 = 30,000

    2011 Regal Sales = 40,144
    2012 Regal YTD Sales = 12,502 (2,500/month Avg.)
    Projected 2012 sales = 30,012 or a 25% sales drop! Looks like Buick is competing against itself!

    Only GM can call that a success!

    Acura TSX 2011 Sales = 30,935
    Acura TSX 2012 YTD Sales = 15,012 (3,002/month Average)
    Projected 2012 Sales = 36,000

    BMW 3-Series 2011 Sales = 94,371
    BMW 3-Series 2012 YTD Sales = 40,022 (8,000/month Avg.)
    Projected 2012 Sales = 96,000

    Infiniti G 2011 Sales = 58,246
    Infinit G 2012 YTD Sales = 23,473 (4,695/month Avg.)
    Projected 2012 Sales = 56,338

    Acura, Infiniti or BMW need not worry about the Regal in the least. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I agree. I mentioned the Pinto & Vega only to show this behavior is nothing new.

    Here's another , much more recent example. Chrysler calls it "weight reduction", but we a ll know its "costs" reduction.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2012/0521/Jeep-Wranglers-recalled-for-- potential-fire-hazard

    BMW got snagged recently with bad battery cables. As I said, they all do it.

    1 or 2 dollars per car isn't much, until you are looking at runs in the hundreds of thousands. It's hard to resist saving a couple million $$$ here and there.

    All manufacturers do it, all the time. Sometimes they get lucky, sometimes not.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    edited June 2012
    I thought because circle brought it up, it was a current recall, but it is seven months old and less than one-half the number of units involved in the current Kia recalls (plural).

    Sounds like 'old Kia' to me.

    Still wish GM wouldn't have exported G8's from Australia but would've built them here, for a number of common-sense reasons.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,342
    So Buick will sell 60,000 units in that segment in 2012 versus 40,000 in 2011. A 50% increase is nothing to sneeze at.

    My 2011 Regal Turbo is a great car. Not one issue in a year. Plenty of punch, handles great, all in all a winner. People need to get past their incorrect perceptions of Buick once and for all. All they need to do is drive them to realize they are building great cars.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    Someone likes his current GM vehicle? I'm picturing some of the folks here acting like Jerry Seinfeld when he'd say, "...NEWMAN."
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I'm going to arrange a Volt test drive in the next coupe of months. The Chevy dealer is between 1-2 miles out-of-the-way from where we live to my wife's work, which driving straight from home to work is about 12 miles each way.

    I'm curious to see if, on a full charge, the car can make the round trip from the dealership to her work, then home, and back to the dealership.... All on battery. The terrain is, for the most part, fairly level with a few gentle hills.... No significant inclines or declines.

    If it does, there is good chance there is a Volt in our future...
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Very happy that you are enjoying your Regal. Buick has been a high quality division for GM and my Mom still has her 2001 BPA with no problems.

    I still believe Buick should have been rolled into Caddy. It is a 'tweener division at best.

    Your Regal should be an entry level Cadillac. Actually, the new ATS is going to compete even more with Regal Turbo. Why buy a Regal when for $2K more you get Caddy? The only thing missing is Olds and Pontiac but it's an old story.

    Point being it's hard to change some things at GM even today.

    Regards,
    OW
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,342
    It is a classic problem, not unique to GM. There are no right answers.

    Toyota is facing similar issues among Toyota, Scion and Lexus. Chrysler has Fiat, Dodge, and Chrysler. Ford killed Mercury because they didn't know what it meant and is trying to cover the range with 2 brands now. Hyundai is trying to cover the entire span of the market with one brand. Who's correct? Nobody can say.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    GM is doing fine with new product being brought along. The newer cars are high quality and the question of which to keep, Buick or Pontiac, is nice to discuss but relatively trivial.

    As new product is situated into the slots in the market, changes will be made to adjust the margins. The glass is 2/3 full.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    Your Regal should be an entry level Cadillac. Actually, the new ATS is going to compete even more with Regal Turbo. Why buy a Regal when for $2K more you get Caddy?

    My perceptions on the subject are probably old fashioned by now, but I think the Regal is too "cheap" to be a Cadillac. It starts around $27,000, and IMO, that's just too down-market for what a Cadillac should be.

    Plus, no matter how nice it might be, I'm just not comfortable with the idea of a 4-cyl Caddy.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    And GM should be asking "What does Buick mean?" If sales trend up with new models, the answer is positive.

    If not, time to rethink.

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    But sales were up in 2010 and 11. That chart ends at the old Buick.

    I'm with Andre that the Regal would be too cheap to be a Cadillac. I think they got the cutting of divisions as close to right as could be done given how quickly the had to do it.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited June 2012
    Sales did rebound to 155,000 in 2010 and 177,000 in 2011. (But returning to pre-C-11 sales numbers ain't going to happen at Buick.)

    YTD May is tracking 9% below 2011 @ 71,300, however, in a growing market with new products. So sales have peaked since the bankruptcy and are in decline says change something.

    Agree they had little time to cut to the most advantageous product mix but old GM is still alive and well with 4 Divisions. More merging is required, IMO.

    Agree Regal is a great product but the Verano (upscale Cruze) will only go so far and Regal sales fall further indicates car sales at Buick aren't going to grow anytime soon. Perhaps when new models are introduced and existing ones improved.

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    The 90's, for the most part, were still an era when Buick was, in typical GM fashion, trying to be all things to all people. It was a trend that really got taken to the extreme in the 1970's and 1980's, but it had been going on to a degree before that.

    In 1995, for example, Buick still had a broad range of cars. Here's how their breakdown was, according to my Consumer Guide auto encyclopedia...

    Skylark: 53,860 sold (by this time, mainly a rental car queen most likely)
    Century: 113,699 (again, lots of rentals, but older people on a budget tended to like these. And to be fair, they were a nicely trimmed car for not a lot of money)
    Regal: 100,169 sold (I suspect a lot of these went into rental fleets as well, but they also appealed to a buyer who was a bit younger, and a bit more moneyed than the typical Century buyer)
    LeSabre: 171,783 (good, well-rounded car. Plenty of the cheaper Custom models no doubt went to rental fleets, and sure, plenty of old people bought them, but it was also a great choice for someone who wanted a nicely decked out full-sized car)
    Park Ave: 62,994 sold (probably a few rentals, but with a base price of $28,244, hardly a cheap car. Good choice for those wanting a luxurious car without the flash of a Caddy, and decently quick with the supercharged engine)
    Roadmaster: 30,508 (a throwback for Buick fans who missed their old Deuce-and-a-quarter)
    Riviera: 41,442 (to fully disclose, an extra-long model year. There was no 1994 Riv, and I remember seeing these in the showrooms in the summer of '94. A few were probably rentals, but most were probably bought by the Buick faithful.)

    As the years went on though, Buick started paring back a bit. Some models, like the Roadmaster, Riviera, and Park Ave, dropped off due to lack of interest. At the low end, the Skylark was dropped. The few retail buyers probably moved up to the Century, while rental fleets were satisfied with the Alero, Grand Am, and newly-revived Malibu.

    As the years went by, the LeSabre and Century were increasingly dependent on fleet/rental sales, and the Regal fell from favor. And the Regal itself wasn't immune from the rental fleets. My Dad's '03 Regal is a former rental.

    Buick killed two possums with one rock with the 2005 LaCrosse, as it took out both the Century and Regal. And while many LaCrosses no doubt went into fleets, the volume was much less than the Century/Regal had been. I'm pretty sure by this time, the Grand Prix and Impala were picking up most of the need for this type of car in rental fleets and such. So while fewer LaCrosses were sold than Centurys and Regals, they probably saw a greater profit per car.

    In a similar fashion, the Lucerne took over for both the LeSabre/Park Ave, and again, it was less dependent on fleet sales than the LeSabre had been. In this case though, demand for large-ish cars in general was drying up. Witness the demise of the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car, and the lackluster performance of the 500/Montego and Taurus/Mark-S-or-whatever replacements. Seems like only Chrysler is having some degree of success anymore in this field with the Charger/300.

    Nowadays, Buick doesn't flood the rental/fleet markets like they used to, and they've also eliminated some of their models that had been at the extremes (Skylark and Century on the low end, Roadmaster, Park Ave, and Riviera at the top), so I'd expect their sales to drop somewhat. But they've also expanded into SUVs...first with the Rendezvous and Rainier, and now with the Enclave.

    But, to see them drop from 500K plus (back in the 1970's and 1980's they hit 800-900K a few times) to only 100K by 2009, is pretty scary!

    Buick currently doesn't have anything that really gets me excited, but I do hope they stick around. And heck, maybe I should go check out the Regal, to see if it's something I'd be interested in.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    The way I see Buick is that they are heading in the right direction but they are clearly an unfinished project. Pretty much all they've done since the bankruptcy is going in the right direction - including the things that I wouldn't tough myself - but they are not done. We'll see.

    It's a strange no world when Buick seems to make the right moves these days while Honda has lost as much as a clue....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Agree, Honda is worse than GM is now regarding direction. I own a CR-V but the company is going to give ground to the fast movers that give customers what they want without going to sleep...excellent engineering goes far but time to smell the coffee, Mr. Ito. It ain't only the Civic that is in trouble these days. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,342
    The really interesting thing will be to see if Car & Driver finally wakes up and drops the Accord from its Ten Best Cars list in a few months time. In reality it probably should not have been there for the last 10 years or so, and I get the impression they keep trying to find reasons to keep it there. But the type of Accord that justified being on that list originally no longer exists.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    True enough. I was always a big Accord fan but when I drove the current generation I didn't find much to distinguish it from a Camry. If all you want is a dependable mid-size there's nothing wrong with that but not what I expect from an Accord.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think you may be making a mistake analyzing Buick from a domestic market standpoint. Buick is a global brand with particular strength in Asia. It's important to understand that Asian market preferences are often influenced by western image. If GM dumps Buick, that may have a significant impact on how Asians then view the brand in their own markets. Buick is profitable, therefore the domestic part of Buick need only be accretive to overall corporate earnings and cash flows. I think Verano and Regal were brought out here in response to the gasoline prices. Remember that Regal is really an offshoot from Opel. I believe GM has aspirations to market the Cruze/Verano globally. I think GM is just doing what has been responsible for a big part of Ford's recent success; trying to develop and market "global" platforms. You tweak them, like GM has done with crossovers (Enclave) here. It's no secret really, because Toyota has been doing this for years. At least that's how I see it, so I think GM is right in keeping Buick as a division here.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think a couple of things are affecting Toyota and Honda. First, they are becoming western focused companies, particularly Honda, so the bean counters are getting more influence and power. Second, both of them pay too much attention to the buff mags. Face it, Car & Driver doesn't really reflect most car buyers in the US. But responding to them may get a company some free passes. Look at BMW - good company, but not perfect like a lot of the mags would have you believe.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    You have a very valid point. Buick is far more Chinese than American. We'll see how profitable Buick stays in our region.

    If not, Buick need not exist in the USA and stay in China where it is popular and profitable. Remember, GM wants Caddy global as well so in the future, extra divisions really aren't necessary anywhere in the world. Caddy is no more a "world standard" than Buick is at the moment.

    Buick is a dying brand here based on sales alone. GM was smart expanding offshore for now.

    Regards,
    OW
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