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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Who has a vehicle undercoated these days?

    He thought his '02 was crappy underneath due to all the salt/chemicals they use on the road in our NE OH, although the body looked good still.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    My $85B?

    Here are the facts. We'll throw C and the parts suppliers in:

    Last month, the Obama administration increased the estimated loss on the $85 billion auto industry bailout, which also included aid to crosstown rival Chrysler Group LLC and auto parts suppliers, by $3 billion to more than $25 billion. That amount is still smaller than the government's initial estimate of a $44 billion loss. Chrysler is already free and clear from its government bailout after taking out a loan to pay back what it owed.

    Go Chrysler!! :P

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Looks like my 2000 Park Ave is due for some repairs soon. I had it in to the mechanic for an oil change and to rotate the tires, and a general look-over. They found two things wrong with it. First, one of the axle boots is leaking. They said that would be $400+. On top of that, the rear brake pads are thin, and for that they want to replace the pads and the rotors, and that's going to be around $425 or so.

    What do y'all think of these prices? I have no idea about replacing a front axle...and they said in a case like this they replace the whole thing, not just the boot. But the brakes sound awfully expensive to me. And it makes me wonder...why would it need new rotors after only 86,000 miles? I've only had one car with disc brakes in the rear prior to this...my 2000 Intrepid. It was still on the original rear rotors and 150,000 miles when it got totaled. Anyway, I'm going to shop around. This mechanic has been seeming awfully high as of late.

    Oh, and the other day, my uncle's '97 Silverado decided to attempt the driveshaft pole vault on the Dulles Toll Road in Virginia the other day. :blush: So, it's in the shop, waiting for a new/used driveshaft, and possibly some new u-joints.

    But, before anyone chimes in and says "shoulda bought a Toyota", well his '03 Corolla had to go in last week for a new catalytic converter. That was about $495...although I hear that nowadays that's actually cheap. On some expensive cars, those things can run in the $$thousands!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Remember Ziebart? Rusty Jones? I remember a kit made by Duro where you could rust-proof your own car. My Dad used it on his 1970 Ford Torino and it appeared to work. I don't remember seeing any rust on it. His 1972 Ford LTD was quite another story. That car rusted with a vengenace that would embarrass a Vega.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The front boot price probably isn't to out of line. I believe it's quite a bit of labor for that job.

    The rear brakes seem out of line though. I seriously doubt you need the rotors replaced. I'd think you could get that job done for 1/2 your quoted price.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The brake job does sound pricey. This isn't a dealer, is it? I don't remember paying that much for brakes and rotors at my local mechanic.

    For the axle, they might be replacing the entire half-shaft, CV joint, and boot. My ex-girlfriend's 1994 Jetta ate those for breakfast.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Nah, this isn't a dealer. It's actually the same shop I've dealt with, for the most part, since 1989 when they put a new heater core in my 1980 Malibu. The guys that ran it were old Chrysler guys, who originally met when they worked as mechanics for a big dealership a few miles up the road that sold Plymouth-Dodge-DeSoto-Chrysler-Imperial.

    Well, they retired in 2002, and the guy that took it over was a Ford guy. And suddenly, prices shot up. Also, by this time, I wasn't living only a couple miles away anymore, although I was working only a couple miles away. So, I found another shop, on the recommendation of a friend, that was out closer to where I lived. They were more reasonably priced, did good work, and didn't find laundry lists of problems like the other place was starting to.

    Well, I ended up moving back, closer to work and selling my condo, and ironically, this shop relocated a couple miles beyond the old condo, so they weren't so convenient anymore. But, I kept going to them, until my friend with the '78 Mark V recommended one of his friends, who isn't afraid to tackle old cars.

    Well, this guy was closer, and good at first, but then seemed to start getting sloppy and expensive. So, I figured I'd try the original mechanic right around the corner again. And they seemed good for awhile, but then started getting sloppy and expensive.

    So, now I'm going to start trying the place back out beyond my old condo again. I had stopped off there last week, after going out with my uncle to drop his Corolla off at the muffler place up the road from them, to see if the same guys were still working there. They are, so I'm going to start dealing with them again. The only reason I took the Park Ave in to the place right around the corner was that I didn't want to go all the way out just for an oil change and tire rotation.

    Oh, and I also found it oddly reassuring that these guys, at the place out beyond my old condo, had a '56 Pontiac in their shop! So, at least I know they're still not afraid of old cars!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Finding a good independent mechanic and holding onto him is a chore. I had a great mechanic I to whom took my 1989 Brougham and 1994 DeVille on Rising Sun Avenue. The guy did a great job and was very reasonably priced - way more reasonable than the local Cadillac dealer. He was a transmission specialist and he did the repair on my 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis - the only car with which I experienced a transmission failure. Unfortunately, he left the business over ten years ago and his shop is now owned by some Chinese folks who make aluminum awnings and screen doors.

    I now go to a guy who used to service my wife's father's car whose shop is only a few blocks from my house. This guy is also very good and very reasonably priced.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Replacement boots, split boots, are inthe $15 range on Rockauto.com. If the CV joint has lost only slight amounts of grease, that would be my choice for now.

    Halfshafts appear to be $45 to $60 on rockauto (plus shipping weight charge). If you are doing the halfshaft, carefully check the hub for wear, 0.05 in/out movement is GM's spec for maximum movement--not rocking motion, in and out. To get to the halfshaft, mechanic pulls the hub, so it's a good time to replace it with a Timken from Rockauto or Autozone.

    The rear rotors may be original. They're slightly thinner, in my opinion, and tend to wear unevenly after higher mileage. I'd suggest Raybestos Professional grade ($17 or $26 rockauto, for 11 in or 12 rotor) and better Raybestos advance technology rotor ($33/$48). Rotors will be heavier and last longer than originals. Also will machine better. I won't machine the original rotors, front or rear.

    Add on Raybestos semimetallic pads, Professional Grade, or ceramics, and you're at about $33 (there are two different sizes for pads, my guess is the supercharged engine gets larger rotors and pads). Rockauto has 5% discount numbers they give to past buyers but then you pay shipping and no sales tax in the case of purchases I've seen.

    Rear brakes are doable by a good shade tree mechanic on these cars. Bolts for caliper bracket have red Locktite on them from factory, so they need alcohol or heat to make them easier to turn.

    My 2 cents is that you buy the brand parts rather than letting the shop get the cheaper parts with a higher markup from a supplier. I lucked out and found a shop that will do work on customer-supplied parts. An engineer friend of mine had used them. I'm willing to pay extra well for the labor and get the quality of parts I supply.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Just spent a fortune doing front and rear rotors and pads and two frozen calipers on my daughter's Celica. Still way cheaper than replacing the car which is basically sound has virtually no resale value. (178K on the clock.)
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Try an AAMCO repair shop. Dealer repair prices are too high AFAIC.

    Regards,
    OW
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Such a shame. Great cars, poor execution. Specifically the launches are being botched.

    Let's hope they nail it for the Fusion.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Such a shame. Great cars, poor execution. Specifically the launches are being botched.

    Let's hope they nail it for the Fusion.


    So true. Ford has come a long way, but they still have some warts for sure.

    I think the Fusion has the potential to be a grand slam. But if they botch the launch like they are so capable of doing, it could really derail Ford's progress going forward.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In the New thread some say the new Accord is one the road already, what's taking Ford so long? Seems like Honda cut in line and launched first.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2012
    In the New thread some say the new Accord is one the road already, what's taking Ford so long? Seems like Honda cut in line and launched first.

    In Ford's defense, the Fusion was last updated in 2010 vs 2008 for the Accord, so I'm fairly impressed that Ford will have basically an all new car only 3 years after the 2010's were heavily refreshed.

    Plus Ford has had their hands full with several new/refreshed models, F150, Mustang, Focus, Fiesta, Explorer, and Trans Connect etc. So Ford certainly hasn't been sitting on there hands.

    What remains to be seen is how well the Fusion will compete the Accord, even with my Ford bias, I can see the Accord is going to be more than competitive.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ford's lineup is great, they just seem to release v0.9 to the public.

    The Edge that got recalled isn't new but the powertrain is.

    Fusion has the edge on styling, but both look good.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Ford's lineup is great, they just seem to release v0.9 to the public.

    LOL, it's been that way for decades.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Fusion has the edge on styling, but both look good.

    I wonder if the Fusion is one of those styles that, while it looks great now, might just be a bit too trendy, and will wear thin and get old after awhile? Meanwhile, the Accord, which looks good but more conservative, might stand the test of time a bit better?

    In 1957, everybody was going crazy over the radical new Plymouth and Ford. Yet today, it's the '57 Chevy that everyone clamors for. If it wasn't for Stephen King, the "Forward Look" Plymouth would probably be a forgotten memory by now.

    I sorta had high hopes for the 2013 Altima, but after seeing a few, I don't really care for them. The Malibu is okay, in an innofensive, wallflower sort of way, but too small for my tastes, and my mind classfies it as a compact. Camry does nothing for me. 200/Avenger have been improved considerably in the past year or two, but I just don't like the overall shape of them. So, if I were going for a midsized car, I guess my main interest would be an Accord or Fusion.

    Is a new Mazda6 coming out anytime soon?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I wonder if the Fusion is one of those styles that, while it looks great now, might just be a bit too trendy, and will wear thin and get old after awhile?

    It's possible. I'm curious to see how the base model looks with smaller/cheaper wheels. The Accord certainly has a nice conservative look that really won't offend many and I have no doubts the Accord will outsell the Fusion, particularly in the retail market considering the Accord has less than 1/3 of the fleets sales vs. the Fusion.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    wonder if the Fusion is one of those styles that, while it looks great now, might just be a bit too trendy, and will wear thin and get old after awhile?

    You mean like the Sonata.....
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    You mean like the Sonata.....

    No, he means like all of the Big 3 CARS for the last 2.5 decades. :) :P

    Regards,
    OW
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Have you sat in the Altima? Those seats will make you forget a LOT. Though it didn't make me miss the lack of manual shift capability...still, those are NICE seats.

    The Mazda6 is coming very soon actually, supposed to come out Spring next year as a 2014 model: http://www.edmunds.com/mazda/mazda6/2014/?sub=sedan
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    In 1957, everybody was going crazy over the radical new Plymouth and Ford. Yet today, it's the '57 Chevy that everyone clamors for. If it wasn't for Stephen King, the "Forward Look" Plymouth would probably be a forgotten memory by now.

    Maybe it was because they disappeared due to rust! Same for the Ford of that era.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    haven't sat in a new Altima yet, so if I were shopping for a new car, I'd probably reserve final judgement until I did that. The styling of it, from certain angles, makes me think of a poor copy of the current Mazda6.

    As for the 6, that 2014 redesign looks pretty nice to me! Might have to check one of those out, too. I think it's a bit odd that one of the cons listed is that "styling might be a bit too edgy for its audience". :confuse: Isn't that sort of the point? I always thought of the Mazda6 as the type of car for a sportier, edgier crowd.

    Oh, as for the Sonata...don't really care for the style, but I do kinda like the Optima.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Well, here is GM vs. Hunkia YTD 2012

    Malibu = 168,277
    Sonata = 158,014
    Optima = 100,424

    I agree the Optima wins the style award vs. these 3. :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I don't see the new Malibu increasing sales against the new competition coming out. Plus new Impala will likely take some sales from the Malibu too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like the Optima but rear visibility is compromised. The clutch and steering weren't satifsying, either. This was a base model with a manual.

    I've heard people say the Sonata has not aged well, yet sales keep growing. They're about 2k ahead of last year's total thru August.

    Malibu looks better, IMHO, but we really need to wait until all the variations arrive and they stop selling to old one to gauge how it's doing. I fear they went for a bunt instead of swinging for the fences.

    I'm not a sedan guy anyway, and none of these come as wagons any more. I'd have to go down a size class to a Focus SFE, Mazda3 SkyActiv, or Golf TDI 5 door. GM doesn't sell the Cruze 5 door and wagon here. :(
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I'm not a sedan guy anyway, and none of these come as wagons any more. I'd have to go down a size class to a Focus SFE, Mazda3 SkyActiv, or Golf TDI 5 door. GM doesn't sell the Cruze 5 door and wagon here.

    The D-segment sedan market is heating up considerably .. new Accord, Altima, Malibu and Fusion out now, refreshed Mazda 6 next spring. Sonata, Camry and Optima just refreshed in last year or two.

    But, I'm done with sedans, having had one as my DD for the better part of the last 10 years. Next car will most likely be a hatchback or coupe.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Unless Mazda brings their handsome new 6 wagon, though, there are no wagon options. Many of them exist in overseas markets.

    I'd even settle for a 5 door hatch. Sonic is too small, the gap between that and an Equinox is enormous.

    Buick is getting the Encore but that doesn't really fill that gap.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I saw a new Regal at the gas station. It was at the fuel pump beside me, and the driver was nowhere to be seen. I took a quick peek over and, at first it looked like the back seat was roomier than the Malibu I had sat in last week. However, the seat didn't look like it was back all that far. I was hoping to get a glimpse of the driver before I left, so I could get a rough idea of how far that seat would have to be back.

    Turns out it was a woman about 5'6".
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2012
    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1079244_independent-tests-show-nissan-leaf-e- - lectric-cars-lost-range-in-hot-climates

    Keep in mind they poked fun at the Volt for its engine with this ad:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn__9hLJKAk

    What if everything ran on gas? Then again, what if it didn't?

    That takes on new meaning when your Leaf battery dies after just 59 miles. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I saw a Verano this morning. The taillights have these chrome "eye brows" over them. Cute overall, though.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    You'd have plenty of room in the back seat if my wife was driving! She has the seat almost against the wheel!
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Unless Mazda brings their handsome new 6 wagon, though, there are no wagon options. Many of them exist in overseas markets.

    I'd even settle for a 5 door hatch. Sonic is too small, the gap between that and an Equinox is enormous.

    Buick is getting the Encore but that doesn't really fill that gap.


    +1 - would love to see more hatch / wagon options here in the US.

    As noted, nothing in D-segment.

    C-segment hatches:
    Focus
    Elantra GT
    Forte 5
    Golf
    Matrix
    Mazda 3

    B-segment hatches:
    Fiesta
    Accent
    Rio
    Sonic
    Yaris
    Mazda 2
    Versa
    Fit
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I hope like crazy that Mazda brings the 6 wagon over. Every new idea that is "going to make wagons obsolete" is worse than the last. Minivans are OK but they are NOT wagons. Most SUVs suck at trying to do wagon work and the CUVs are an attempt to build a wagon and call it something else.

    At least not all that long ago For had both Focus and Taurus wagons. Subaru is now down to making the Outback an SUV. Come on, folks, this is easy. You have the cars in other countries and don't have to go through so much USA certification because you are already selling the sedan versions over here!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    > The taillights have these chrome

    The chrome lessens or intensifies relative to the color of the car. I like some better than others. And I realize where those accents came from when I was driving down the rows of new cars at a regional Buick store and the Verano was parked next to the LaCrosse group. Similar taillight accent but much less standout because of the size of the trunk on the LaCrosse.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    I believe an Audi A4 Avant/Wagon is still purchasable in the USA.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I really wish GM would start bringing over C segment hatches...when was the last time they sold one here? Cavalier maybe? I'm pretty sure the Citation and Chevette were B-segment...
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited September 2012
    I don't really understand this new alphabet soup crap, but I'm guessing that it's something like A=minicompact, B=subcompact, C=compact, and D=midsize?

    Well, if so, the Sonic hatch is actually a compact, not a subcompact. Cruze, while marketed as a compact, is borderline midsize. I think the hatch version of the Cruze looks good, but traditionally, midsized hatchbacks don't sell well here.

    As for the Citation, it was essentially a large compact...about the size of a Cruze. Chevette (or Shove-it, as we used to call 'em) was a subcompact. So was the Cadavalier.

    Honestly, as tiny as the trunk openings have gotten on modern cars, a hatchback almost might make more sense on some of the midsized cars today. Even on my old Dodge Intrepid, the trunk opening was small. I think if they made it so that the decklid and rear window were all one component that lifted up, it would've been a lot more versatile.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I don't really understand this new alphabet soup crap, but I'm guessing that it's something like A=minicompact, B=subcompact, C=compact, and D=midsize?

    Wrong in that it's new. And wrong in that you don't understand it, because your guessing is correct. :shades:

    I really just consider A segment to be A segment...in Japan they'd be Kei cars I guess, unless that's a segment BELOW "A" segment.

    I agree about trunk openings. My father recently bought a new Legacy, and I looked in the trunk, and I'd basically have to crawl inside to get to the back of it. It has almost NO decklid, it's all vertical opening, and that makes it hard to get some bulky objects in. Personally I don't think I would ever buy a non-hatch anymore: I've gotten too much utility out of my old Mazda3 and my current Elantra Touring. GM will have to bring a C segment hatch to gain my business, because a Sonic is too small and doesn't get good enough highway mileage for me.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I really just consider A segment to be A segment...in Japan they'd be Kei cars I guess, unless that's a segment BELOW "A" segment.

    There are superminis, which is a class of it's own. Think Fiat 500, Smart, Scion iQ. They may be part of the "A" class, but I'm not sure.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I believe an Audi A4 Avant/Wagon is still purchasable in the USA.

    Nope. The A4 Avant is gone and replaced by the All Road which is a jacked up A4 Avant with black cladding.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    ..I rode the 100 or so miles home in it yesterday. While it is a pleasant vehicle, I came to the conclusion that if I closed my eyes, it was absolutely no better-riding or quieter than his 2002 model.

    Seems to me it used to be one could tell improved quiet or ride in ten model years' worth of updates. I think now it's all about gadgetry and looks, even more than back then. I know it probably has more HP and MPG than his old one.

    It must have a small tank. He filled it up and the range on the gauge only said "297 miles".
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I just looked it up, and the 2013 Escape has a 15.1 gallon tank.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    If it's 15.1 gallons, I have to believe he didn't actually fill the tank. Personally, I never gas up without filling up. His mileage average was 24-and-something per the instrument on the dash that never went away. It had 600-some odd miles in total on it.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    edited September 2012
    I agree. Gadgetry and looks are selling now. Thinking 10 years or improvements and thinking like, say a 51 Chevy compared to a 61 Chevy....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A4 Avant is gone and replaced by the All Road

    *sigh*

    Plus the A4 is fairly compact. I'd probably call it C segment. Think of how big an Accord would be inside compared to an A4. A6 is about D sized.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    2013 Escape has a 15.1 gallon tank

    That's probably OK with the 1.6T but would limit range with the bigger engines.

    Chevy nailed it with a nice, big 18.8 gallon tank on the 'nox.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So $25k with freight included.

    That's ambitious. Remember it's made in Korea and has a dinky little engine.

    Just for reference, the Juke starts at $19,990 plus freight, an Outlander Sport at $18,795 plus freight.

    That Encore had better be well equipped. Only the Verano costs less at the Buick store.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I came to the conclusion that if I closed my eyes, it was absolutely no better-riding or quieter than his 2002 model.

    That wouldn't surprise me. The new model probably has lower profile tires and it seems to me that it's a more sporty type of CUV, so I'd expect the ride to be more on the firm side. I don't think the top priority of the new Escape was to make the ride softer and quieter, particularly if the old model was respectable in those areas already (don't know as I've never been in one.)

    My wife's current Taurus IMO isn't noticeably quieter than the the last Taurus she had back in 03 (from what I can remember anyway) and it certainly doesn't ride any better, if anything her new Taurus has a firmer ride, though it's still a far better vehicle overall.

    I don't know if it's different on the Escape or not, but I've had my Expedition down to "zero miles to empty" and when I filled it up it still had over 3 gallons in the tank. Plus I know my DTE display on a fill up goes by previous data, so a weeks worth of in town driving will nearly take a whole tank of highway driving for it to reflect the better highway mileage average.

    I've never filled my wife's taurus up when it was down that low, but I know the DTE display can fluctuate a bunch from tank to tank being anywhere between 400 to over 500 and I do know a 100 mile highway trip isn't enough to cause a fill up to read on the high end if the first 1/2 of the tank was more city driving.
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