GM News, New Models and Market Share

stever

Which gets us back to the question of whether you can build a good, reliable car anywhere.

uplanderguy

I believe a good, reliable can can be built anywhere. I still prefer the good ol' USA.

Oops, didn't mean to say 'can'. Should say a 'good, reliable car'....

fezo

I don't think we build many cans here, either....

The American Hyundai comment was a joke. Unfortunately we've reached the point where you have to send up a flare to warn of non-serious comment....

I have enough trouble with Korean Chevies. Buicks. Dang.

andres3

I have the following perceptions about where a product comes from/is assembled/made in:

Korea - Cheap, but getting better.
China - Cheap, and iffy.
USA - Iffy shot in the dark on quality.
Japan - super durable and reliable high quality
German - High quality, Superb engineering
Mexico - cheap, but perhaps getting better?
Canada - not sure...... not enough experience with products from theree

I read the Dodge Dart has a transmission from Canada and will be built and assembled together in Mexico.

circlew

Anywhere except where GM is.

Regards,
OW

stever

Try Argentina to Venezuela. South Africa is the closest one to Zaire I see in Wiki's List of General Motors factories, so I can't quite say from A to Z.

(Where have you been anyway; no posts about all the recalls the other day?).

circlew

Sorry...working.

Here.

GM recalls 426,000 sedans

The company said this is a potential problem in certain cars with four-speed automatic transmissions built from 2007 to 2010, including Chevrolet Malibus, Saturn Aura and Pontiac G6 models.

I even posted the link for the fan-owners!

Earlier this summer, GM recalled more than 400,000 Chevrolet Cruzes for engine trouble.

Regards,
OW

uplanderguy

Both recalls have been posted previously here...the Cruze one, three times, by you.

Guess you've been busy over on those other forums commenting on their recalls.

The 'potential problem' is that the gear selector won't indicate what gear it's in. Hey, this won't result in a Hyunkia going 59 miles at 110 mph by itself.

circlew

The 'potential problem' is that the gear selector won't indicate what gear it's in. Hey, this won't result in a Hyunkia going 59 miles at 110 mph by itself.

In March of 2009, GM recalled about 277,000 vehicles for a similar shift lever problem.

GM says part of the transmission cables can break. That can cause the shifter to show that the car is in park when it's really in gear. GM says it knows of four crashes from the problem but no injuries.

At that time the recall involved 2009 model year versions of the Buick Enclave; Chevrolet Cobalt, HHR, Malibu and Traverse; GMC Acadia; Pontiac G5 and G6; and the Saturn Aura and Outlook. Only 75,000 of the vehicles had been sold, with the rest still at dealerships.

Hmm, guess the similar problem didn't lend to any quality upgrades. Good Ole' GM quality at it's best!

Regards,
OW

roho1

I'm speaking of upstate NY. My bro in law is GM of large dealer conglomerate. They had a separate Ford Lot/Building dealership and about a block away was the Lincoln/Merc/Mazda dealership. I also lived in another city in NY and when I shopped for a Mercury at the time it was a separate Lincoln/Merc dealership. That's all I can go on is my personal experience, not that this is a big deal. Enough said.

uplanderguy

Now we're talking about 2009 recalls. I limit my postings to current recalls.

You'll probably bring up the 1971 motor mount recall, as you did not terribly long ago.

Remember...thirteen million Toyotas recalled in the past few years and they had the highest number of cars recalled, three years straight. That's not hopin' and wishin', that's fact.

circlew

So a repeat recall from GM should be brushed under the table?

Fact is GM gets recalled more than Toyota. Not hopin' and wishin', right?

Regards,
OW

greg128

Fact is GM gets recalled more than Toyota. Not hopin' and wishin', right

Hogwash.

In 2011 Honda led in recalls with 3.9 million. Next was Toyota with 3.5 million, then Ford with 3.3 million. GM had .5 million.

In 2012 up to now exact numbers are hard to get but in a pie chart on arfc.org, Ford looks like it has the most, followed by Chevy, Honda, BMW and Toyota with about the same amount.

I didn't look into 2010 or 2009 but I think Toyota probably had the most for those years.

uplanderguy

Thanks. Someone has to be the snopes.com of this page. It sure won't happen by itself!

circlew

I think? Nice!

Here are the All-time leaders. GM had 19.8MM of the Top 10 All-Time Recall leaders in 4 HHUUUUGGGGGEEEE recalls. Ford beat them for top honors, however!

FACT! You don't have to like it. It's history and GM owns it. Market share doesn't evaporate as fast as GM's did without these FACTS!

Regards,
OW

greg128

Since 1966 when NHTSA was established there have been a total of 390 million vehicles recalled. Of course there would be more GM. Ford and Chrysler total recalls. I prefer to live in the present.

circlew

Thanks for confirming the fact that GM wins in historical recalls vs. the Asians.

That's why, presently, the Asians make better cars than GM. The past can do that to a car company.

Regards,
OW

berri

German - High quality, Superb engineering

But often expensive maintenance costs and sometimes spotty reliability.

berri

Honestly, don't you think comparing brands by total recall count is kind of junk statistics? The reasons for recalls are extremely varied, as are the vehicle affected numbers in each recall. If you are going to analyze on this basis, effectively a recall for a relatively minor matter on a limited run of vehicles counts as much as a mass recall on a potentially very serious matter. Personally, can't see this analysis methodology as valid or conclusive. You are comparing often disparate results and drawing a conclusion simply by gross number of events which is really trying to evaluate n rather than a measurable outcome prediction, as well as making no adjustment for outliers or time.

andre1969

but there's one less GM product in my family. This afternoon, I used my uncle's poorly-aging 1997 Silverado as a trade-in on this:


I apologize for the cross-posting, but I just had to show it off!

dieselone

very nice, need some details.... Looks like a single cab, long bed.

imidazol97

Congratulations on your new fleet member. May it bring you many years of service.

andre1969

Well, it's a bit of a cheapo model. Leftover 2012, regular cab, 8 foot bed, Hemi V-8. We used my uncle's '97 Silverado as a trade, got $1300, which was more than I was expecting. Honestly, I wasn't expecting his truck to make it to the dealership without the help of AAA. Total price out the door came out to something like $19,451, plus the $1300 for my uncle's truck, so around $20,751 total.

I posted the whole experience over in the Chronic Car buyers anonymous thread.

andre1969

thanks...and while not GM, I guess at least I still kept it semi-American. The dealer did throw me for a few curves, such as giving me a too-good-to-be-true internet price but then throwing on the frieght after the fact, and then saying that Maryland taxes rebates as well, so at a couple points I was ready to walk. There was a Toyota dealer next door, and my uncle had suggested that, if I decided against this Ram, to go over there and at least check the trucks out. But, in the end, this dealer came back with what I thought was a good price, and gave us a good trade-in on my uncle's '97, so I'm happy.

GM didn't win this round, but who knows, the next time around? My Park Ave won't last forever. And while I do like the Charger, I'd at least look at a 2014 Impala, to make sure I'm not missing out on anything.

Oh, and I just realized, that buying this Ram puts my fleet at 50/50 Mopar/GM. It now consists of:

Mopar: '57 DeSoto, '79 NYer 5th Ave, '79 5th Ave base model, '12 Ram.
GM: '67 Catalina, '76 LeMans, '85 Silverado, '00 Park Ave

berri

Really though, don't you think those Dodge Hemi's are the nicest looking pickups out there right now? The Ford's are kind of fat and Tonka Toy/Buddy L looking, while the GM are old and blah. The Toyota is a bit odd. They say looks aren't everything, but... Just kidding!

fezo

I agree. Best looking trucks even if they technically aren't Dodges anymore.

berri

OK - "Ram" the facts down my throat...just kidding!

andre1969

One thing I think Chevy should do is take that front clip they use on the Avalanche/Tahoe/Suburban and put it on the regular trucks. I think it's really good looking, whereas I think the one they use on the pickups is pretty blah.

I think the front they use on the GMC pickups is okay, but I don't like the Yukon/Yukon XL front.

They say that full-sized pickup trucks is the last bastion of brand loyalty. But, I guess I'm just old fashioned, in that I see a pickup as a workhorse, and not some status symbol...so I'm not a brand hugger when it comes to that. I mainly just wanted a cheap pickup that I wouldn't be ashamed to have sitting in my driveway. I'm a bit leery of the Fords, because they're kinda hi-tech, and that might not bode well, long term.

And a cheap Chevy/GMC means you're stuck with the archaic 4.3 V-6 and the 4-speed automatic that tends to chew itself up prematurely. My uncle's '97 needed two rebuilds in the time he had it. And when I test-drove it on Friday after it got fixed from dumping its driveshaft on the Dulles Toll Road, it made a nasty little grinding sound every time it shifted, and I was afraid to drive it to work. However, it did make the 25 mile trip to the Dodge dealership to get tradedin just fine, so maybe it wasn't *that* bad.

As for the Tundra, I know the looks of the current generation are a bit love it or hate it, but I have to confesss, I kinda like it. But, there's just something about the current Ram that I find downright sexy. Even in the cheapo-trim-level with the black plastic bumpers and grille.

andre1969

OK - "Ram" the facts down my throat...just kidding!

Well, I think starting in 2012 they began marketing the Ram as just "Ram", and not "Dodge Ram". I'll let you know what it says on the title when it comes, though!

To me, it harks back to 1960, when Mopar tried to market the Valiant as its own brand and "Nobody's Kid Brother". However, I'm pretty sure the 1960 Valiants were titled as "Plymouth" Valiants and not just "Valiants".

stever

Edmunds lists Rams under a separate category now. When the announcement came out I wondered how long it will last.

uplanderguy

Where are those trucks built? I have no idea. My B-I-L is a Chrysler diehard and has an '07 Hemi 4-door pickup he bought new. I've driven it once and ridden in it several times...very nice.

andre1969

I just pulled up an old pdf file of a window sticker I had from when I was considering a Ram earlier in the year. And, oops...looks like I didn't buy as "American" as I thought.

Here's the rundown...
US/Canada parts content: 70%
Final Assembly point: Saltillo, Mexico
Engine: Mexico
Transmission: US

I'll look at my window sticker when I get a chance, but I'm presuming it'll be the same.

lemko

Heck, I can recall two seperate Lincoln-Mercury dealerships. One was Northeast Lincoln-Mercury on the corner of Tyson and Roosevelt Blvd. in NE Philly and the other was Sussman Lincoln-Mercury in Jenkintown where I bought my 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS.

lemko

Built in America with Korean management? Kind of like the Hyundai-Rotem railcars SEPTA bought that are already falling apart unlike the old Budd Silverliner cars that ran for 50 years.

uplanderguy

Prepare to hear from andres3! LOL

Hey, I bought my daughter a used '08 PT Cruiser when it was two years old for $6,930. I knew it was built in Mexico, but figured as a used car, the damage was already done . For all the negatives I hear about those cars, it's been a good car. Control arm bushings and a sticky horn button have been fixed at my expense, but those are things I'd have most likely had done under warranty if I'd bought new. The local Dodge dealer was able to pull up the serial no. and saw where it was delivered new but it had never been once back to a Mopar dealer since new! People that borrow it are always surprised at the good seating position and interior roominess. It runs rougher than my Cobalt though.

Anyway, enjoy the truck!

lemko

German - the Vegas showgirl who will show you the time of your life before sending you home destitute to your wife and your bank examiners.

lemko

I imagine you still have the 1985 Silverado.

fezo

For a few years I had a Sebring convertible that was made in Mexico. That plant became the PT Cruiser plant. The car was fine and very reliable. The family just grew too big for it.

This whole Ram as its own division doesn't really work for me. I still think of them as Dodges.

imidazol97

>"Ram" the facts down my throat...

He's just helping you lock "horns" with the truth. Sometimes doing that is "Ram(n) tough" to face?

berri

Funny!

stever

Yeah, but we're dodging the topic. :P

Here's one for the tinfoil hat wearing crowd:

GM claims 'breakthrough' will make vehicles lighter, help gas mileage (Detroit Free Press)

imidazol97

>we're dodging the topic.

Well, there's nothing "sheepish" about how you've "herded" us back into the "flock."

That aluminum bonding technology is a great step forward. I was noticing the aluminum alloys as I changed oil in my 03 le Sabre that were used in suspension and engine mounts.

With the current 64 mph government requirement, we'll be driving cars like this without lots of weight reductions and engine refinements... Maybe engines this small.

lemko

That's a good picture for "Mystery Car Pics."

xrunner2

Honestly, as tiny as the trunk openings have gotten on modern cars, a hatchback almost might make more sense on some of the midsized cars today. Even on my old Dodge Intrepid, the trunk opening was small.

Good point. Wonder though if structural rigidity is compromised somewhat with a hatch vs regular trunk lid.

Years ago, had a VW Scirroco that was a hatch back. Was fun to drive, good gas mileage and could haul stuff when required. Such as a 40 gallon water heater or a 7 FT High 3FT W and 1 FT D bookcase. Of course a part of these hung out over the bumper and had to tie down the hatch lid.

xrunner2

The Juke is ugly yet they sell tons.

GM did have some foresight. The Pontiac Aztek was about 10 years too early.

fintail

Fiat Bianchina

ateixeira

I can think of one Lincoln Mercury dealer we had in the state. There was one Lincoln-Mercury-Mazda dealer

Had, hmm, wonder why that failed? {irony}

Tracer doesn't drive well? Try a 323 or Protoge.

If you don't like the Tribute, you might like the Mariner.

We have so much VARIETY here! LOL

xrunner2

Oh, and I just realized, that buying this Ram puts my fleet at 50/50 Mopar/GM. It now consists of:

Mopar: '57 DeSoto, '79 NYer 5th Ave, '79 5th Ave base model, '12 Ram.
GM: '67 Catalina, '76 LeMans, '85 Silverado, '00 Park Ave


Still have a way to go to catch Leno.

And, do you have something against diversity?

ateixeira

don't you think comparing brands by total recall count is kind of junk statistics?

Good point.

Remember, folks, a recall is when a company takes responsibility and fixes something (some times by force, but still, you get a fix).

berri also made a good point about the severity of the recall.

I was called in for a spare tire chain that might rust. It didn't. There was no problem.

Meanwhile some recent recalls for engine fires were so severe that owners were told to stop driving.

Back to what started this conversation - the issue with the GM recall is that you might think the vehicle is in Park when it's not, and that could make the car roll away.

So it is a bit more serious than most.

But it's also been discussed, and by now water under the bridge.

ateixeira

Andre: just curious, is yours made in Mexico or one of the two US plants that makes them?

Edit: already answered:

US/Canada parts content: 70%
Final Assembly point: Saltillo, Mexico
Engine: Mexico {hablas Hemi?}
Transmission: US