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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I see the last Grand Marquis deleted the power passenger seat as well. Heck, I thought my car was enough of a plain jane as it is. My 1989 Grand Marquis LS was a pretty plush car in comparison.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    ou can always get those funky aftermarket gauges that screw to the bottom of the dashboard!

    True...one of the previous owners of my '67 Catalina did that, installing an aftermarket temp gauge and oil pressure gauge under the dash.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru now uses a blue light when the engine is cold, and it goes off once it's warmed up. So you are still notified if it's outside of certain parameters, I'm sure.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    That's a neat retro touch! I recall a lot of older GM cars that had a "COLD" light!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Installing aftermarket gauges today should be a simple "plug-n-play" ordeal.

    I was checking out a new Dodge durango and the info available on the lcd display in the gauge cluster was impressive. Engine temp, oil temp, trans temp, oil pressure, voltage, and engine hours etc. All that can be had by simply plug into the ECM.

    Back when I had my trans rebuilt on my '00 Suburban, the rebuilt trans had a problem with not keeping the torque converter locked. The tech brought a scan tool and as we drove down the road it was amazing all the info he could get. After a 15 minute drive he new exactly what the problem was. It ended up being a faulty connection on one of the actuators in the valve body of the transmission.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    That's a neat retro touch! I recall a lot of older GM cars that had a "COLD" light!

    I definitely remember that light on my grandparents' '63 Bel Air wagon.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I've never seen a car with an engine cold light. Though I've read some cars (M3 specifically) had a tach where the redline would change between a cold engine and warmed up one. IIRC, that was a few years ago on when the M3 had the high rpm inline 6.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    My '67 Newport had an engine cold light. It's been awhile, but I think it was green.

    IMO, it seems kinda silly that a dirt-cheap Dart or Valiant would have a real gauge standard, while a mid-level car like a Newport would just have idiot lights.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Well it seems from the mid 70's through the mid 80's full gauges were rare. Maybe it was to lure people into believing they weren't needed;)

    My wife had an '01 Impala that had a oil sending unit fail. The oil light was on for a few days before she said anything to me. If it hadn't been a company car, I would have been upset. I don't know how she wasn't concerned with the huge yellow light. But nothing was actually wrong other than a faulty signal being sent to the gauge cluster.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My 1988 Buick Park Avenue was an oddball as it had a full complement of gauges. I really like that feature on that car.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I also wonder if people might be more likely to notice a red light coming on, than they would a gauge that happens to be going too far in one direction or the other? Maybe that was part of the thinking when they first started going over to idiot lights?

    I think the migration to idiot lights might have actually started in the late 50's. To use one example, my '57 DeSoto has full gauges, but for '59 the oil and amps were replaced with idiot lights. For some reason, I'm thinking Olds was an early adopter of idiot lights, and might have actually started phasing out real gauges for 1957. For some reason I'm thinking Cadillac did, as well.

    At some point, they started combining gauges with idiot lights. Not sure when, exactly, but the full-sized '79 Mopars have full gauges standard AND idiot lights for everything (oil, fuel, temp, amps, a door is a jar, etc).

    I guess an idiot light is enough to do the job for the most part, but I'm a bit leery of them. Awhile back, my 2000 Intrepid's oil pressure light started coming on at low rpm, and flickering. My '67 Catalina used to do the same thing, and the aftermarket oil gauge would back it up, by showing low-ish pressure. It's since been fixed, although I forget what the mechanic did to it, but it really did have a low pressure problem.

    So, when the Intrepid started doing it, I figured it was a real problem. But nope, turned out there was a TSB on it. In certain situations, such as fully warmed up, stopped at a traffic light, lack of air flow and heat build-up from the engine would trigger the light, and make it flicker. Once you got moving again it would cool down and turn off.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Subaru now uses a blue light when the engine is cold, and it goes off once it's warmed up. So you are still notified if it's outside of certain parameters, I'm sure.

    Mazda does the same thing. It's easier to tell with a glance if there's a temperature problem or not, since those temperature gauges are typically right next to the fuel gauge, and are a near identical twin of same, except all the way to the right on the fuel gauge is GOOD, all the way to the right on the temperature gauge is BAD. :sick:
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    GM at its best!

    GM is perfect (for you) you pay for something it doesnt work they say "um we're just gonna disable that" and you're ok with it.

    What if it was the trans.....we'll just disable it......you'd be just fine walking.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    From 1990-1994 the Miata had a real temp gauge.

    I think it was model year 1995, but they started using a "dummy" guage, which merely reported a lack or presence of oil pressure. Problem is you had no way to tell oil pressure was too high, from a clogged filter for instance.

    If you ever see an NA Miata in the junk yard, odds are that part was scavenged already.

    So an idiot light may actually be better than a dummy gauge. :sick:
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    It's since been fixed, although I forget what the mechanic did to it, but it really did have a low pressure problem.

    Oil pressure gauges aren't fool proof as they usually only give the oil pressure at the mains. My wife had a '92 Saturn SL2 that burned quite a bit of oil back when we were dating. She drove that car 100 miles to see me one time. She showed up and mentioned the engine was clattering. Curious, I go out and start it up. Sure enough it was making a lot of noise at the top of the engine. The oil pressure gauge was reading in the normal area. I checked the oil and nothing on the dipstick. I ended up putting nearly 4 quarts of oil in it. It had enough oil for the pressure sending unit, but not enough flow to keep the valvetrain quiet. It took about 30 minutes of running to quiet back down.

    A few years ago in our old boat that had a 305 chevy motor. I was running WOT a 5k rpm when I just happened to notice the oil pressure gauge was reading 20 psi (way to low at that rpm). I immediately slowed to idle, when the gauge went under 10 and a warning beep started going off. I shut it down and checked the engine compartment to find an oil line running from the remote oil filter had failed at the connection. All was okay, besides having to get towed in and having one hell of a mess in the bilge area. The ECM would have put it in limp home mode had the pressure dropped anymore when I was at WOT. I just happened to check the gauge at the right time.

    I think most engines only need about 10psi of oil pressure per 1000rpm.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I'm pretty sure most temperature gauges these days are dummy gauges. I never see mine slowly rise to operating temperature, it's always at the bottom or just to the left of dead center. Same with my 04 Mazda3. I think my old Corsica was the last one to have a real temp gague...but that one didn't have a tach. :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    By that standard, the temp gauge in my Grand Marquis has to be real as I can see it slowly rise on my way to work in the morning.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thankfully Mazda put a real one in my 08 Miata (guessing enthusiasts cried foul?). Almost seems low at idle but rises with RPM, significantly too.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Depends on how slowly, but maybe yours is a real gauge, yeah. The Grand Marquis is an old enough design to harken back to when they actually used real gauges that represented real temperatures.

    Mine rises "slowly" but not so slow that it's going up as the car warms up, which argues that the bottom mark on the gauge represents a relatively high temperature. But once it hits that near-middle "normal" point it never budges, which would indicate that that one spot covers a relatively wide range of temperature variation. Hence me being convinced it's not a real gauge.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited November 2012
    By that standard, the temp gauge in my Grand Marquis has to be real as I can see it slowly rise on my way to work in the morning.

    That's how the temp gauge is in my Expedition and the wife's Taurus. But in general ford gauges for temp, oil, and voltage are pretty lame IMO. I've never seen them budge other than the temp gauge from cold to warm.

    OTOH, the gauges in the Suburban would move and actually gave a value for each item. It wasn't unusual for the temp gauge to rise 10-15 degrees when I was towing our boat in high heat. Same with the oil pressure gauge. It would indicate an oil pressure increase between idle and acceleration. Same with voltage.

    I am convinced the temp gauge in my 07 Expedition is at least based on reality. Now that it's cold out, the temp gauge doesn't climb as quickly and it will stay about a 1/16 of inch for a while before moving to where it always sits when at normal operating temp. Plus the torque converter won't fully lock up until the gauge is well into the normal band, any lower and it doesn't go into lockup mode.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/14/toyota-recalling-2-77-million-vehicles-for-wa- ter-pump-steering/

    Looks like most are in the home market.

    Five models are affected by the water pump recall, though we're still waiting for confirmation from Toyota as to which they are

    Please PLEASE recall my Sienna! It needs a car wash badly! :D

    Though I wonder if the film of dirt on it now makes it more aerodynamic?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/14/cadillac-recalls-2013-xts-over-head-restraint- -issue/

    My favorite land yacht with the awesome 12" media screen, looks like the rear headrest is the issue. Just 12,626 cars, though.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I think that's one reason why recalls are so common these days...there's just so much to cover, and they'll go after the most minute detail! A few years back...well, okay, maybe more than a few...cars didn't even have headrests in the back.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Cars last longer now too, so there's more time for problems to crop up ten years down the road.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good point.

    I remember going through a MD inspection one time when I was buying a car. One of the fog light lenses on the car I was buying was cracked.

    They said it would fail for that reason.

    If I removed the fogs, it would pass. But if they are present they have to be perfect.

    I thought it was odd because they're optional anyway, but oh well.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    It takes a while for the temp gauge to climb with the cooler weather. I have a short distance to work. By the time the temp gauge gets to the point I can turn on the heater without getting a blast of cold air, I'm more than halfway to my workplace.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I wouldn't have even noticed an issue if there was one. Almost nobody sits in the back seat of my cars. The back seat of my 1989 Cadillac Brougham is nearly pristine.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I remember buying aftermarket foglights and putting them on cars. I put a set of amber foglights on my Dad's 1978 Ford Granada and clear ones on my friend's 1978 Chevrolet Impala.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You should cut out the back seat and shorten the car by 6 feet or so. :shades:

    That's what the Buick Reatta looked like. Remember those? Seemed like a big car chopped horizontally to become a smaller one.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    That's what the Buick Reatta looked like. Remember those? Seemed like a big car chopped horizontally to become a smaller one.

    It was...the Reatta was essentially a 1986 Riviera with something like 12 inches of wheelbase removed.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I saw a reatta the other day.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I've noticed some newer models that come with LCD displays now offer a gauge option, where the driver can select various combinations of gauge displays, giving an analog look and feel.

    I first noticed this on the new BMW 328 that I test drove 3/4 months ago.

    I suspect this will become more common as an optional feature on cars that are viewed as performance oriented. Without checking, I'd bet the new Caddie ATS has this feature...

    IIRC, I think Mazda offers it on some models, too... Seems like I remember reading that somewhere...
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Nope, so far the only ones I'm 100% certain offer it are BMW and Dodge. And yeah, I'm pretty sure the ATS offers it too.

    Mazda has a screen in the gauge cluster (the right-most binnacle in the current designs for the CX-5 and 6) but it's supplemental, the speedo and tach are still there in the other two. The LCD provides extensive trip computer info, and a fuel meter at the bottom.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    My Explorer allows me to customize the left and right hand displays.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    I just saw the Silverado commercial stating again that Chevrolet makes the most dependable and longest lasting full size trucks. Coincidentally I had a customer of mine come in yesterday with an old beaten 1984 with a 350 and automatic. He said he paid $1200 for it with a rusted snow plow on the front including a new inspection. I asked him how it ran...he told me "great". he plans to use it to plow snow this winter and will probably get his money back after 2-3 storms.

    Because of the thin and inferior steel frames on Toyota trucks you will never hear a claim like that in one of their commercials. I took a look at the frame on the '84 Chevy and although it was rusted, it still looked solid.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    took a look at the frame on the '84 Chevy and although it was rusted, it still looked solid.

    By the way the daughter of the tenant next door to me at my job needed a new frame on her 2000 Tacoma about 2 years ago.. Yes Toyota paid $13,000 for the replacement, but that was on a 10 year old truck!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Coincidentally I had a customer of mine come in yesterday with an old beaten 1984 with a 350 and automatic.

    My '85 C10 Silverado, with its 305 and THM350C tranny doesn't look too pretty these days, but it's still alive and kicking. I don't really need it anymore since I bought my 2012 Ram, but kept it around to handle any rough, dirty work I might need done. Hate to say it, but the Ram's too new, shiny, and purty to dirty up! :blush:

    I'm getting some pretty bad rust in the rocker panels and over the rear wheel openings, but the frame is still pretty solid. And it still starts right up...still on the original engine and tranny, and they work just fine, although it does leak and burn a bit of oil.

    It held up a LOT better over the years (Granddad bought it brand new, so I know its history) than my uncle's '97 Silverado, which we used as a trade-in on the Ram. In fact, my uncle's '97 is one of the main reasons I bought a Ram. :surprise:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Not at the same time in your car though, hopefully. :)

    "We design components so they're not 1 gram bigger than they need to be," Leone said. A gram is about one-thirtieth of an ounce, for the metrically challenged.

    That's a huge change for GM, whose vehicles have usually been among the heaviest in their classes, but weight is among the most important criteria in automotive engineering. Light weight leads to higher fuel economy, better performance and often lower costs.

    GM is also instituting a new level of flexibility in its assembly plants, so it can adjust the mix of vehicles it builds to meet demand."

    GM's top leadership embraces an 'all-new way of doing things' (Detroit Free Press)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Missed this one yesterday:

    "General Motors' Opel division is halting talks aimed at forming a deeper partnership with PSA Peugeot Citroën after the French government offered Peugeot a bailout in hopes of reducing layoffs the automaker announced earlier this year."

    General Motors' Opel division is halting talks aimed at forming a deeper partnership with PSA Peugeot Citroën (Detroit Free Press)
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Have and are usually among the heaviest. Cruze and Sonic are relatively tubby compared to their competition. It'll be nice to see them slim down.

    You know, Daewoos were always on the heavy side too, maybe it's a consequence of GMDAT?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    GM should run away, not walk, from that deal.

    What were they thinking? When the boat's taking on water, you do not buy an anchor!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Better Korean cars have slimmed down quite a bit compared to predecessors, I wouldn't be surprised to see similar improvements from GM-DAT.

    The Sonic looks like fun but she's chubby and could lose a few pounds.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    The Sonic looks like fun but she's chubby and could lose a few pounds.

    And supposedly well-built and reliable if you're a fan of CR.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Yeah but weight is a problem for small cars. One of the reasons some people buy smaller cars is because they like to drive something lightweight and tossable. The weight takes that away: the heavier a car is, the more slowly you can change direction.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I was thumbing through the CR Auto Buyer's Guide issue, dated December 2012, on the rack at a store today and read their review of the Impala. In their summary right under the picture of the car, they listed, basically, how it was an old design, blah blah blah. Trouble is, the photo was of the 2014 Impala.

    Seems a tad sloppy to me.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    There was probably also a mention of an upcoming redesign and a reference to the photo being a predicted representation of it. They do that a lot with cars that are about to have a redesign released.

    But I'm sure when it comes to the Impala it really means that it's a vast conspiracy against GM, rather than just their usual policy like it is with Ford, Honda, Toyota, etc...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited November 2012
    At the bottom of the article, it mentioned that a new car was coming out. One might think that with a photo of the new car, there might've been a subtltle about that model not being out yet. I'm not sure why they wouldn't have shown a photo of a current Impala since that's the car they were reviewing. No conspiracy, just sloppy editing IMHO and I think to any person without a 'dog in the hunt'.

    Don't take my word for it? It's on newsstands now.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    At the bottom of the article, it mentioned that a new car was coming out. One might think that with a photo of the new car, there might've been a subtltle about that model not being out yet. I'm not sure why they wouldn't have shown a photo of a current Impala since that's the car they were reviewing.

    You're right - they could have just said it was an old car and not mentioned that a new one was coming and not included a picture of the new one. I know that if I were anti-GM, that's what I would have done. :P
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Right under the pic of the 2014 model, it lists things like 'old design', 'not competitive', etc. I can't believe that was the intention; again, I believe it was sloppy editing.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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