I've kept the OnStar active on my 2007 Cadillac DTS since new. It did kind of scare me when I first stepped into the car after purchasing it and a woman's voice come out of nowhere, "Good evening, Mr. Lemko!" "AAAAHHH!!! What's that?" "Congratulations on your new Cadillac, Mr. Lemko!" "Uh...yeah...thanks."
andres3, the same could be said about crashworthiness in a vehicle.
My wife and two young daughters were lost en route to a hotel in NJ just outside of NY in a torential downpour, with exits flooded, construction they weren't expecting and the Holland Tunnel coming up. OnStar stayed on with my wife for fifteen minutes 'til she pulled into the hotel parking lot. She's a customer for life.
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So they're really not saying much of anything. It's kind of like Honda saying they're they have sold more Ohio-made sedans than any other foreign-nameplate manufacturer in Ohio.
That's some genius right there Tlong! Fantastic analogy to GM's PR campaign. Be careful, Honda's been a slump lately and might actually copy GM's marketing and steal your idea and use that line of yours. :P
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Crash worthiness is indeed something that might only be useful once a decade or less, but the stakes are high; your life.
I prefer "accident avoidance" abilities myself, which can be used more often and negate the importance of crash worthiness to some degree (or at least make it required less often).
But saying having someone call 911 in case you are unable to respond after an accident is taking it a quite a bit further. I would say it's Nth degrees further less useful. First, if it's a multi vehicle accident, it assumes all people involved are so injured no one can call for help. Second, it becomes irrelevant if crash worthiness didn't keep you alive first of all, so that you can even use the help.
And GM has been known to skimp and cost cut. Might crash worthiness of the vehicles be 10% better if OnStar wasn't required? I'd put the extra effort and expense into the crash worthiness.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
That was her one free call. Does a Garmin give you a human being at the other end? I can tell you that my wife has borrowed a Garmin before and would tell you that OnStar was a lifesaver that day.
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The chassis rides well, but after that the praise ends. Steering feel is simply lousy -- zero feedback, and you'll find yourself working the wheel even on arrow-straight highways. The soft suspension, writes Evans, means "seesaw action over bumps." Febbo is less charitable: "No confidence in the chassis." The new Malibu offers nothing to the enthusiastic driver. It's a shame, because this remains a clean-looking, competitively priced machine (base price for the well-outfitted LTZ is $28,590). But its limited room and poor real-world efficiency doom it in this capable field. Seabaugh sums it up bluntly: "Unusable at its most basic function -- family sedan."
Sadly, I assume some are not that enthusiastic but that's OK! :P
Obviously they missed the entire point of the car: they didn't mention how wonderful OnStar is, and clearly didn't pay attention to the fact that, despite the high sticker price, you can actually get the car for $19,995. Instead they focused in insignificant things like suspension, handling, driving feel, and fuel economy. I swear, I don't know what's wrong with some of these so-called "car" mags.
Now let me remove the tongue from my cheek. I'm surprised about the suspension reaction, that doesn't seem to jive with what others have said. I wonder what standard of comparison they're using.
Wow, "Kong" really doesn't like the Chevy! And the Camry, only one 'place' above, is full of 'squeaks and rattles'--"at least Chevy put forth an effort; Toyota phoned it in."
Not exactly a shocker than an 'enthusiast' mag would pick the European car first. Funny that CR has it behind the Malibu in its very recent test.
I'm between 5'8" and 5'9" and I can sit in the rear seat of the Malibu without my legs touching the front, when the front is put where I'd drive with it. But even I am able to admit that IMHO that is the car's biggest shortcoming in normal-people-day-to-day-driving. What I do like is made in U.S.A., by a company who employs more Americans than any of the other auto companies, a longer powertrain warranty than any of the other cars tested there, and the fact I'm fairly certain it can be bought for less of my hard-earned bucks than the others...and I like the looks better than most if not all of the others. And I still partly buy for looks...probably more than 'partly'.
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Like I said, GM isn't leading in cars. I'll give them a B for effort for the 2008'Bu and the Cruze (came from Europe) as well as the Camaro and CTS. But none of them are leading products. The hopeful is the ATS for Caddy as the XTS looks so boring that the Gensis looks more appealing!
As for the continuing story on the 2013 'Bu, let's see what the doctored up version has to offer....although we'll wait almost a year. GM is quite the dinosaur at the moment!
Automotive News is reporting that Chevy is working on refreshing the Malibu by the end of 2013, which is about 18 months after the new car went on sale earlier this year.
Not leading in mid-size sedans. Fact. :shades:
The sooner-than-expected design change is apparently a result of criticisms from dealers and the media as well as unimpressive sales figures. AN says that Malibu sales were up four percent earlier in the year due to increased incentives to move the 2012 models, but once the full model year changeover took place (in September and October), sales dropped by three percent.
General Motors Company (GM - Analyst Report) plans to recall 69,000 units of pickup trucks, sports utility vehicles (SUVs) and vans worldwide because the vehicles are built with faulty park lock cables or malformed steering column lock gears. The problem could cause the vehicles to roll away unexpectedly.
The recall affects Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra full size pickup trucks, Suburban, Tahoe and Yukon SUVs, Avalanche truck, Express and Savana vans, and Cadillac Escalade full size SUV.
All the vehicles are from the 2013 model year. About 55,000 vehicles will be recalled in the U.S. and 14,000 units in Canada, Mexico and other parts of the world.
GM revealed that due to defective steering column, the vehicles can move out of its parking position even if the ignition key has been turned off or removed. However, most of the defective vehicles are not yet sold and about one in a thousand has the problem. The company’s dealers will replace the steering column free of charge if needed.
GM seems to be very cautious about finding and fixing the defects in their vehicles in order to keep its brand value intact. Of late, the company made a number of vehicle safety recalls.
Recently, the automaker decided to recall 145,628 units of mid-sized pickup trucks across its global markets because their hoods can open unexpectedly and obstruct the driver’s view, increasing the risk of a crash. The recall involved Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon midsize trucks from 2010–2012 model years.
They're not leading in recalls, that's for sure. That belongs to Japanese companies Toyota and Honda, as posted earlier, in 2012--by a looonnnnnggggg shot.
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No, but you never want sales to go DOWN when you release a newly redesigned model. And you never want people pining for the old model over the new one, and you ESPECIALLY don't want the car mags pining for the old model over the new one.
At least GM is acknowledging they screwed up and is doing a quick re-design. Time will tell what they actually do and if it helps enough. Rear seat legroom is a difficult thing to fix with a quickie redesign, but maybe the can at least boost fuel economy.
No, but you never want sales to go DOWN when you release a newly redesigned model. And you never want people pining for the old model over the new one, and you ESPECIALLY don't want the car mags pining for the old model over the new one.
Yeah, no matter how you spin it, the Malibu is getting killed in the market place. Chevy's bread and butter sedan shouldn't be shut out of the top 20 sales list. It's one of the slowest selling mainstream family sedan at this point.
31.4k Camrys, 29.4k Accords, 23.9k Altimas, 20.8k Sonotas, 19.2k Fusions, 14.5k Passats, 12k Optimas, then 11.6k Malibus sold in Dec. That's an [non-permissible content removed] kicking period.
I'm guessing unless GM really reduces production, they'll be begging people to buy the Malibu with big rebates to move them.
I know Uplander likes the Malibu, shocking I know. But from my POV it doesn't stand out in anyway. OTOH, I don't think it's a bad car by any means, but from what I've seen and read so far, there are about 2 or 3 other family sedans I'd likely buy over the Malibu.
I'm waiting for the new Suburban. I want to see if GM will do anything with it that interests me. If not, I'll likely buy a 1-2 year old Expedition EL. I don't like buying the same vehicle back to back, but nothing offers the room and utility of a Suburban or Expe EL. So my choices are fairly limited.
Rear seat legroom is a difficult thing to fix with a quickie redesign, but maybe the can at least boost fuel economy.
FE probably won't be an easy fix. If you compare the Malibu to the Fusion, both 2.5 4cyl offer similar mileage, which is below the competition, but Ford offers a small 4cyl turbo that boost FE to at least be competitive and will be the main seller. I think the Malibu is fairly heavy compared to some of the other cars, and that is a trait of all the Epsilon based vehicles. GM achieved their goal of making a solid platform, but the flip side is they're heavy. I think the Malibu is about 300+lbs heavier than an Accord or Camry.
I recall Bob Luts commenting on the design of the more recent GM offerings. He said something to the effect, their goal was to address previous platform short comings such as rigidity and driving dynamics and extra weight was a by product of addressing those issues.
Most GM cars seem to be heavier than the competition, but that's something they can fix in a quickie redesign unless it's integral to the platform. They can also retune an engine, and adjust shift points and gearing in an automatic transmission, that's why I think they can inch fuel economy up a bit. Honda did it, after all.
Thing about the "extra weight" is that saying it was for rigidity is a cop-out. Other manufacturers have increased rigidity while keeping weight the same or even reducing it. GM needs to get there also.
I still prefer my '11 Malibu for looks, but prefer the current car's interior (other than rear legroom). But it's been described here as 'lame', and I think for Mr. and Mrs. 'everydaydriver', not sure that's very accurate or open-minded.
I think there will be soon great buys on Malibus. I like that kind of thing, although I know a lot of other people here don't.
Apparently the Optima is about as bad of a seller as the Malibu!
About weight--not sure if related, but CR gave the Malibu kudos for roadbump damping and smoothness, 'as good as you'd expect in a larger car' and better than others in its size class. In NE OH, I'd take that over slalom ability.
I've said this before, but I'd have bought a new Studebaker in '64 over a Chevy II, Falcon, or Valiant. Part of it is liking something different from the crowd.
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I think there will be soon great buys on Malibus. I like that kind of thing, although I know a lot of other people here don't.
I think we all like good deals. But when discussing or measuring the success of a car company, the successful manufacturers don't have to create fire sales to move product due to over production and/or poor sales.
But I see your point. I'm sure the Malibu would make a fine sedan. I don't see anything dreadfully wrong with it. But you cannot ignore the problem the Malibu is having in the market place. For one reason or another, buyers are choosing other midsize sedans no matter how good the warranty or OnStar is.
I haven't even sat in a Malibu, so it's hard for me to judge. I don't like going to car dealerships just to look when I have no plans of buying a car anytime soon. Maybe I'll get to look it over if I make it to the Chicago auto show this year.
Apparently the Optima is about as bad of a seller as the Malibu!
I don't think that's something GM will brag about. Plus the Optima's sister car is selling nearly twice as well. To point out GM's problem. According to Cars.com, there are over 50k Malibus in stock vs about 12k Optimas. So one company has an inventory level in accordance with sales and the former has more cars in inventory than the best seller in the class by a wide margin.
I think there will be soon great buys on Malibus. I like that kind of thing, although I know a lot of other people here don't.
Apparently the Optima is about as bad of a seller as the Malibu!
Chevy wins in the missed opportunity/high-incentives game at the moment, like it or not. Honda already felt the pain but how come sales weren't affected as much as in GM's case?
The Sonata was being blown away by Malibu sales...but no more! Optima will pass the Malibu sales this year...if they don't hit max capacity at the plant!
>I like that kind of thing, although I know a lot of other people here don't.
LOL
I'm wishing I'd bought a Malibu last year instead of waiting to do my car search, sittin', drivin', listenin' to BS'n salesfolk. :grin There are 2012s with low miles at stores around here. I'm lookin.
About a refresh on the Malibu, that's exactly the kind of reactivity to the market that folks have wanted from GM. That's great! Maybe the government will give them a couple billion as a loan or whatever to help pay for it. They gave a thoroughly successful Nissan company money to add to a successful production plant in Laverne/Smyrna TN area.
As far as the LTZ test by whatever car mag, I consider those tests of the nonmainstream vehicle for nonmainstream purposes to be just testosterone-driven magazine/review sales. It's like the car mag a few years back testing some obscure highly sporty foreign brand, Lamborghini?, and another exclusive, rare model from another maker. IT was done in Sweden or Norway. Odd. Just the kind of car 99.9% of the drivers are interested in. IT reminds me when I was testing the Fusion and the local Ford store had a GT in the showroom. I asked how it did on the ice and snow here and could I get snow tires for it. Not even close to practical.
Perhaps the same, as to practicality, for the Malibu LZ or 2LT or 1LT is the car most would purchase. Maybe the 3LT.
According to data posted by circlew, Sonata outperformed Malibu in sales growth. Sonata sales up 96 percent comparing 2008 to 2012. Malibu sales up only 18 percent when comparing these same years. So, who has been doing things right?
As far as the LTZ test by whatever car mag, I consider those tests of the nonmainstream vehicle for nonmainstream purposes to be just testosterone-driven magazine/review sales. It's like the car mag a few years back testing some obscure highly sporty foreign brand, Lamborghini?,
In contrast to "testosterone driven" car magazines, CR is pragmatic. Their latest issue has top rating for the Honda Accord LX and 4th place for Malibu in the Entry Level Family Sedan segment. CR said that the Accord "had a major redesign for 2013".
People looking to buy/lease a sedan in Entry Level should at least look at and test drive the Accord and compare to other brands or their favorite brand(s). With Honda and Accord, their is a long record of quality/reliability (per CR ratings) vs that of Chevrolet family sedans
>With Honda and Accord, their is a long record of quality/reliability
I think you should post that over on the Honda discussion.
As for here, I'd consider their long-lived transmission problems, the VCM problem with oil usage currently, the VCM problem with engagement/disengagement, road noise, road vibration, the brake wear problems (have they cured those yet?), and many others that the fanboys tend to overlook for the perfect vehicles. As for here, they have problems just as do other brands like toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, and GM. For Accord, if I do drive one, my big concern will be the NEW CVT transmission on the 4-cylinder. Who wants to be an early adopter from a company with transmission problems in their history? Hold your hand up.
Kia's and Hyundai's reliability, and repeat ownership, were so poor, they only had one place to go, and its lengthy warranty, highly publicized, certainly helped (as did more palatable styling IMHO). Plus, as has been said many times here, people tend to be sheep and not car enthusiasts, so rely on what a handful of magazine writers say.
My guess is that the average new car buyer has no idea that GM's powertrain warranty is longer than anybody's except Kia/Hyundai. Why they don't trumpet its length in ads is a mystery to me.
Malibu sales in 2012 were higher than in 2008, when it was a press darling. I was surprised to see that. Although, one could also buy the same car at another GM division then--Aura.
Obviously--as I've noted--the current Malibu is a sales disappointment. But if only the best-selling vehicles were any good, guess all those Fords and Mopars of the '60's were 'lame' too.
The price will go down, and sales will go up, until whatever mid-cycle 'refresh' happens. I've heard they plan to put the '14 Impala/'13 Traverse style grille on it, which I think is an improvement.
xrunner2, you were rather disgenuous by omitting some highly relevant info from the Feb. CR in your 'review'. What say you that the 1LT Malibu (next to the lowest Malibu model) tested better than the Optima, Subaru, Passat, and Altima? I haven't heard one single regular GM basher on this board comment one iota on that. Who could be genuinely surprised though?
Confession is good for the soul, gentlemen.
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That's where Honda's reputation comes in, they won't have any problems finding early adopters, whereas if GM came out with one on a Chevy people would be questioning if the CVT were going to explode within 5k miles or not, especially if they developed it internally like Honda.
Then again, given GM's more Euro focus, they're more likely to go DCT instead. Except that didn't they co-design this 6-speed automatic with Ford and basically commit to standard slushbox-style automatics?
FYI, said automatic does seem to be getting praise in the Malibu, whatever other problems there might be. But I bet that automatic's gearing is part of their fuel economy problem.
>With Honda and Accord, their is a long record of quality/reliability
I think you should post that over on the Honda discussion.
Honda's aren't perfect, but I'd wager my money that the average Honda will be more reliable than the average D3 vehicle.
Just look at the sales numbers. Nearly 3x more people vote with their wallets on an Accord vs the Malibu.
As for the CVT. I wouldn't be scared of it. But I'd buy the Accord 4cyl with a manual trans anyway. Same with a 1.6T Fusion.
The same things were said about 6 speeds. My '07 Expedition is the first year Ford used a rwd 6speed. 115k and no serious issues (did require a software reflash at around 30k miles). The "old" tried and true 4 speed in my Suburban didn't make it 50k miles w/o needing a rebuild.
Did you buy your Suburban used and your Expedition new, or the other way around, or both used? I can't remember.
Both used. Regardless, it's almost shocking how many I know with late 90's to mid '00 1/2 ton GM trucks and SUVs that have needed a trans rebuild at low miles and I know a few that have rebuilt 2 or 3 transmissions on one vehicle over the course of 150-200k miles.
The CR data I briefly looked at only goes back to 03. 03 was average for trans major and minor. But 04 was half black for both and 06 and 07 were solid black. All red since so the 6 speeds appears to be much better.
About a refresh on the Malibu, that's exactly the kind of reactivity to the market that folks have wanted from GM. That's great! Maybe the government will give them a couple billion as a loan or whatever to help pay for it. They gave a thoroughly successful Nissan company money to add to a successful production plant in Laverne/Smyrna TN area.
Maybe so, but I'm pretty sure the loan in that case was for support of a new direction in battery production. Still, I have no problems with loans, if they're implemented reasonably.
As far as the LTZ test by whatever car mag, I consider those tests of the nonmainstream vehicle for nonmainstream purposes to be just testosterone-driven magazine/review sales. It's like the car mag a few years back testing some obscure highly sporty foreign brand, Lamborghini?, and another exclusive, rare model from another maker. IT was done in Sweden or Norway. Odd. Just the kind of car 99.9% of the drivers are interested in. IT reminds me when I was testing the Fusion and the local Ford store had a GT in the showroom. I asked how it did on the ice and snow here and could I get snow tires for it. Not even close to practical.
In this I also agree.
I could care less about how AJ Foyt or any other non-consumer/non-regular driver drives a reviewed car on a closed course or the results he gets for the drive.
I read some reviews, others I skip. Frankly, I spend more time looking at the pictures and details of the models more than reading some "highbrow" review of how the suspension isn't quite up to 90MPH hairpin turn handling.
Around here, all a Garmin would get you is a broken window and an $89.99 loss when the local hoodrats spotted it or the tell-tale suction-cup mark on the windshield.
The only think the Genesis would be good for is if I was accidentally poisoned and the instructions on label told me to induce vomiting. I'd simply look at the Genesis and would be barfing my guts up in a nanosecond. That car is ferociously ugly. KDM stylists most be blind or once designed Japanese sci-fi monsters.
I've said this before, but I'd have bought a new Studebaker in '64 over a Chevy II, Falcon, or Valiant. Part of it is liking something different from the crowd.
Funny you should say that. I'd have probably been the guy buying a Packard over a Cadillac, Lincoln, or Imperial in 1955.
Funny you should say that. I'd have probably been the guy buying a Packard over a Cadillac, Lincoln, or Imperial in 1955.
I'm not a 'luxury' buyer, but that said, I agree. Definitely a rarer sight now, and then, than the "Big Three" luxury lines.
They really did nail the quality ride with the Torsion Level. I've ridden in a few as collector cars and they are smooth. As their ad would say, "Let the Ride Decide!"
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Imports led the majority of the government’s green car purchases last year, with 54 percent of the nearly 1,800 green vehicles purchased by the federal government coming from Hyundai, Toyota, Mitsubishi and Honda. The federal government’s most-purchased hybrid wasn’t a Big Three product either. Instead, it was the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid.
Comments
Based on my rental experience, I'd say 43 points was being kind to Dodge.
Yes, but how often does that happen.
Meanwhile, you receive good Horsepower and good fuel economy from a well built car with a good engine every single time you use it.
Put the money into the car, not fringe features useful once a decade.
My wife and two young daughters were lost en route to a hotel in NJ just outside of NY in a torential downpour, with exits flooded, construction they weren't expecting and the Holland Tunnel coming up. OnStar stayed on with my wife for fifteen minutes 'til she pulled into the hotel parking lot. She's a customer for life.
That's some genius right there Tlong! Fantastic analogy to GM's PR campaign. Be careful, Honda's been a slump lately and might actually copy GM's marketing and steal your idea and use that line of yours. :P
I prefer "accident avoidance" abilities myself, which can be used more often and negate the importance of crash worthiness to some degree (or at least make it required less often).
But saying having someone call 911 in case you are unable to respond after an accident is taking it a quite a bit further. I would say it's Nth degrees further less useful. First, if it's a multi vehicle accident, it assumes all people involved are so injured no one can call for help. Second, it becomes irrelevant if crash worthiness didn't keep you alive first of all, so that you can even use the help.
And GM has been known to skimp and cost cut. Might crash worthiness of the vehicles be 10% better if OnStar wasn't required? I'd put the extra effort and expense into the crash worthiness.
6TH PLACE: Chevrolet Malibu LTZ
The chassis rides well, but after that the praise ends. Steering feel is simply lousy -- zero feedback, and you'll find yourself working the wheel even on arrow-straight highways. The soft suspension, writes Evans, means "seesaw action over bumps." Febbo is less charitable: "No confidence in the chassis." The new Malibu offers nothing to the enthusiastic driver. It's a shame, because this remains a clean-looking, competitively priced machine (base price for the well-outfitted LTZ is $28,590). But its limited room and poor real-world efficiency doom it in this capable field. Seabaugh sums it up bluntly: "Unusable at its most basic function -- family sedan."
Sadly, I assume some are not that enthusiastic but that's OK! :P
Go Chevy! :lemon:
Regards,
OW
Now let me remove the tongue from my cheek.
So you get the cars cheap and then you can afford to pay those ongoing OnStar charges even if it is never used. Hopefully like car insurance!
Not exactly a shocker than an 'enthusiast' mag would pick the European car first. Funny that CR has it behind the Malibu in its very recent test.
I'm between 5'8" and 5'9" and I can sit in the rear seat of the Malibu without my legs touching the front, when the front is put where I'd drive with it. But even I am able to admit that IMHO that is the car's biggest shortcoming in normal-people-day-to-day-driving. What I do like is made in U.S.A., by a company who employs more Americans than any of the other auto companies, a longer powertrain warranty than any of the other cars tested there, and the fact I'm fairly certain it can be bought for less of my hard-earned bucks than the others...and I like the looks better than most if not all of the others. And I still partly buy for looks...probably more than 'partly'.
As for the continuing story on the 2013 'Bu, let's see what the doctored up version has to offer....although we'll wait almost a year. GM is quite the dinosaur at the moment!
Automotive News is reporting that Chevy is working on refreshing the Malibu by the end of 2013, which is about 18 months after the new car went on sale earlier this year.
Not leading in mid-size sedans. Fact. :shades:
The sooner-than-expected design change is apparently a result of criticisms from dealers and the media as well as unimpressive sales figures. AN says that Malibu sales were up four percent earlier in the year due to increased incentives to move the 2012 models, but once the full model year changeover took place (in September and October), sales dropped by three percent.
Regards,
OW
The recall affects Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra full size pickup trucks, Suburban, Tahoe and Yukon SUVs, Avalanche truck, Express and Savana vans, and Cadillac Escalade full size SUV.
All the vehicles are from the 2013 model year. About 55,000 vehicles will be recalled in the U.S. and 14,000 units in Canada, Mexico and other parts of the world.
GM revealed that due to defective steering column, the vehicles can move out of its parking position even if the ignition key has been turned off or removed. However, most of the defective vehicles are not yet sold and about one in a thousand has the problem. The company’s dealers will replace the steering column free of charge if needed.
GM seems to be very cautious about finding and fixing the defects in their vehicles in order to keep its brand value intact. Of late, the company made a number of vehicle safety recalls.
Recently, the automaker decided to recall 145,628 units of mid-sized pickup trucks across its global markets because their hoods can open unexpectedly and obstruct the driver’s view, increasing the risk of a crash. The recall involved Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon midsize trucks from 2010–2012 model years.
At least GM is acknowledging they screwed up and is doing a quick re-design. Time will tell what they actually do and if it helps enough. Rear seat legroom is a difficult thing to fix with a quickie redesign, but maybe the can at least boost fuel economy.
Oh boy, copying Honda again?
Yeah, no matter how you spin it, the Malibu is getting killed in the market place. Chevy's bread and butter sedan shouldn't be shut out of the top 20 sales list. It's one of the slowest selling mainstream family sedan at this point.
31.4k Camrys, 29.4k Accords, 23.9k Altimas, 20.8k Sonotas, 19.2k Fusions, 14.5k Passats, 12k Optimas, then 11.6k Malibus sold in Dec. That's an [non-permissible content removed] kicking period.
I'm guessing unless GM really reduces production, they'll be begging people to buy the Malibu with big rebates to move them.
I know Uplander likes the Malibu, shocking I know. But from my POV it doesn't stand out in anyway. OTOH, I don't think it's a bad car by any means, but from what I've seen and read so far, there are about 2 or 3 other family sedans I'd likely buy over the Malibu.
I'm waiting for the new Suburban. I want to see if GM will do anything with it that interests me. If not, I'll likely buy a 1-2 year old Expedition EL. I don't like buying the same vehicle back to back, but nothing offers the room and utility of a Suburban or Expe EL. So my choices are fairly limited.
FE probably won't be an easy fix. If you compare the Malibu to the Fusion, both 2.5 4cyl offer similar mileage, which is below the competition, but Ford offers a small 4cyl turbo that boost FE to at least be competitive and will be the main seller. I think the Malibu is fairly heavy compared to some of the other cars, and that is a trait of all the Epsilon based vehicles. GM achieved their goal of making a solid platform, but the flip side is they're heavy. I think the Malibu is about 300+lbs heavier than an Accord or Camry.
I recall Bob Luts commenting on the design of the more recent GM offerings. He said something to the effect, their goal was to address previous platform short comings such as rigidity and driving dynamics and extra weight was a by product of addressing those issues.
Thing about the "extra weight" is that saying it was for rigidity is a cop-out. Other manufacturers have increased rigidity while keeping weight the same or even reducing it. GM needs to get there also.
I think there will be soon great buys on Malibus. I like that kind of thing, although I know a lot of other people here don't.
Apparently the Optima is about as bad of a seller as the Malibu!
About weight--not sure if related, but CR gave the Malibu kudos for roadbump damping and smoothness, 'as good as you'd expect in a larger car' and better than others in its size class. In NE OH, I'd take that over slalom ability.
I've said this before, but I'd have bought a new Studebaker in '64 over a Chevy II, Falcon, or Valiant. Part of it is liking something different from the crowd.
I think we all like good deals. But when discussing or measuring the success of a car company, the successful manufacturers don't have to create fire sales to move product due to over production and/or poor sales.
But I see your point. I'm sure the Malibu would make a fine sedan. I don't see anything dreadfully wrong with it. But you cannot ignore the problem the Malibu is having in the market place. For one reason or another, buyers are choosing other midsize sedans no matter how good the warranty or OnStar is.
I haven't even sat in a Malibu, so it's hard for me to judge. I don't like going to car dealerships just to look when I have no plans of buying a car anytime soon. Maybe I'll get to look it over if I make it to the Chicago auto show this year.
Apparently the Optima is about as bad of a seller as the Malibu!
I don't think that's something GM will brag about. Plus the Optima's sister car is selling nearly twice as well. To point out GM's problem. According to Cars.com, there are over 50k Malibus in stock vs about 12k Optimas. So one company has an inventory level in accordance with sales and the former has more cars in inventory than the best seller in the class by a wide margin.
Apparently the Optima is about as bad of a seller as the Malibu!
Chevy wins in the missed opportunity/high-incentives game at the moment, like it or not. Honda already felt the pain but how come sales weren't affected as much as in GM's case?
The Sonata was being blown away by Malibu sales...but no more! Optima will pass the Malibu sales this year...if they don't hit max capacity at the plant!
2008 'Bu sales = 178,273
2008 Sonata Sales = 117,357
2012 'Bu sales = 210,951
2012 Sonata sales = 230,605
2008 Optima sales = 44,904
2012 Optima sales = 152,399
I can't wait to see how latest 'Bu failure affects sales!!
"Find New Roads", alright! :P
Regards,
OW
LOL
I'm wishing I'd bought a Malibu last year instead of waiting to do my car search, sittin', drivin', listenin' to BS'n salesfolk. :grin There are 2012s with low miles at stores around here. I'm lookin.
About a refresh on the Malibu, that's exactly the kind of reactivity to the market that folks have wanted from GM. That's great! Maybe the government will give them a couple billion as a loan or whatever to help pay for it. They gave a thoroughly successful Nissan company money to add to a successful production plant in Laverne/Smyrna TN area.
As far as the LTZ test by whatever car mag, I consider those tests of the nonmainstream vehicle for nonmainstream purposes to be just testosterone-driven magazine/review sales. It's like the car mag a few years back testing some obscure highly sporty foreign brand, Lamborghini?, and another exclusive, rare model from another maker. IT was done in Sweden or Norway. Odd. Just the kind of car 99.9% of the drivers are interested in. IT reminds me when I was testing the Fusion and the local Ford store had a GT in the showroom. I asked how it did on the ice and snow here and could I get snow tires for it. Not even close to practical.
Perhaps the same, as to practicality, for the Malibu LZ or 2LT or 1LT is the car most would purchase. Maybe the 3LT.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2008 Sonata Sales = 117,357
2012 'Bu sales = 210,951
2012 Sonata sales = 230,605
According to data posted by circlew, Sonata outperformed Malibu in sales growth. Sonata sales up 96 percent comparing 2008 to 2012. Malibu sales up only 18 percent when comparing these same years. So, who has been doing things right?
In contrast to "testosterone driven" car magazines, CR is pragmatic. Their latest issue has top rating for the Honda Accord LX and 4th place for Malibu in the Entry Level Family Sedan segment. CR said that the Accord "had a major redesign for 2013".
People looking to buy/lease a sedan in Entry Level should at least look at and test drive the Accord and compare to other brands or their favorite brand(s). With Honda and Accord, their is a long record of quality/reliability (per CR ratings) vs that of Chevrolet family sedans
I think you should post that over on the Honda discussion.
As for here, I'd consider their long-lived transmission problems, the VCM problem with oil usage currently, the VCM problem with engagement/disengagement, road noise, road vibration, the brake wear problems (have they cured those yet?), and many others that the fanboys tend to overlook for the perfect vehicles. As for here, they have problems just as do other brands like toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, and GM. For Accord, if I do drive one, my big concern will be the NEW CVT transmission on the 4-cylinder. Who wants to be an early adopter from a company with transmission problems in their history? Hold your hand up.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My guess is that the average new car buyer has no idea that GM's powertrain warranty is longer than anybody's except Kia/Hyundai. Why they don't trumpet its length in ads is a mystery to me.
Malibu sales in 2012 were higher than in 2008, when it was a press darling. I was surprised to see that. Although, one could also buy the same car at another GM division then--Aura.
Obviously--as I've noted--the current Malibu is a sales disappointment. But if only the best-selling vehicles were any good, guess all those Fords and Mopars of the '60's were 'lame' too.
The price will go down, and sales will go up, until whatever mid-cycle 'refresh' happens. I've heard they plan to put the '14 Impala/'13 Traverse style grille on it, which I think is an improvement.
xrunner2, you were rather disgenuous by omitting some highly relevant info from the Feb. CR in your 'review'. What say you that the 1LT Malibu (next to the lowest Malibu model) tested better than the Optima, Subaru, Passat, and Altima? I haven't heard one single regular GM basher on this board comment one iota on that. Who could be genuinely surprised though?
Confession is good for the soul, gentlemen.
Then again, given GM's more Euro focus, they're more likely to go DCT instead. Except that didn't they co-design this 6-speed automatic with Ford and basically commit to standard slushbox-style automatics?
FYI, said automatic does seem to be getting praise in the Malibu, whatever other problems there might be. But I bet that automatic's gearing is part of their fuel economy problem.
I think you should post that over on the Honda discussion.
Honda's aren't perfect, but I'd wager my money that the average Honda will be more reliable than the average D3 vehicle.
Just look at the sales numbers. Nearly 3x more people vote with their wallets on an Accord vs the Malibu.
As for the CVT. I wouldn't be scared of it. But I'd buy the Accord 4cyl with a manual trans anyway. Same with a 1.6T Fusion.
The same things were said about 6 speeds. My '07 Expedition is the first year Ford used a rwd 6speed. 115k and no serious issues (did require a software reflash at around 30k miles). The "old" tried and true 4 speed in my Suburban didn't make it 50k miles w/o needing a rebuild.
Both used. Regardless, it's almost shocking how many I know with late 90's to mid '00 1/2 ton GM trucks and SUVs that have needed a trans rebuild at low miles and I know a few that have rebuilt 2 or 3 transmissions on one vehicle over the course of 150-200k miles.
Which was lower mileage when you got it?
Maybe so, but I'm pretty sure the loan in that case was for support of a new direction in battery production. Still, I have no problems with loans, if they're implemented reasonably.
As far as the LTZ test by whatever car mag, I consider those tests of the nonmainstream vehicle for nonmainstream purposes to be just testosterone-driven magazine/review sales. It's like the car mag a few years back testing some obscure highly sporty foreign brand, Lamborghini?, and another exclusive, rare model from another maker. IT was done in Sweden or Norway. Odd. Just the kind of car 99.9% of the drivers are interested in. IT reminds me when I was testing the Fusion and the local Ford store had a GT in the showroom. I asked how it did on the ice and snow here and could I get snow tires for it. Not even close to practical.
In this I also agree.
I could care less about how AJ Foyt or any other non-consumer/non-regular driver drives a reviewed car on a closed course or the results he gets for the drive.
I read some reviews, others I skip. Frankly, I spend more time looking at the pictures and details of the models more than reading some "highbrow" review of how the suspension isn't quite up to 90MPH hairpin turn handling.
Funny you should say that. I'd have probably been the guy buying a Packard over a Cadillac, Lincoln, or Imperial in 1955.
I'm not a 'luxury' buyer, but that said, I agree. Definitely a rarer sight now, and then, than the "Big Three" luxury lines.
They really did nail the quality ride with the Torsion Level. I've ridden in a few as collector cars and they are smooth. As their ad would say, "Let the Ride Decide!"
Imports led the majority of the government’s green car purchases last year, with 54 percent of the nearly 1,800 green vehicles purchased by the federal government coming from Hyundai, Toyota, Mitsubishi and Honda. The federal government’s most-purchased hybrid wasn’t a Big Three product either. Instead, it was the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid.
Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Is The Government’s Green Car Of Choice
Must be that superior Warranty!
You mean like Chrysler and their use of the ancient and never good 3-speed automatic that they continued to use into the 21st Century.
Or how about Ford and their terribly received dual clutch efforts.
I've heard of GM transmission history problems too.