Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

redsilverado

the avonite is a polyester material, while the corian is acrylic. at one time, i used the 3M stuff on my street bikes and they always looked awesome, but then again, they were polished at least 2 times a week. now that i own two silverados, i've been maintaining them with meguiars. have used the "Z" product on both, but way too much time is involved. thanks for your view on leaf blowers, it may be whining on my part, but it takes time to detail a vehicle to maintain that new car look. then these lazy gardners just blow through and then they're gone, leaving you with a nice layer of dirt. i posted a topic on it in "news & views". but as usual, it got pretty anal, if you catch my drift.(wink wink)

bretfraz

I used to use it as part of a two or threee step depending on what kind of car I was doing.

Worked great after 39007 Imperial Hand Glaze and 39009 Swirl Mark Remover.

3M made some changes to Paste about a year ago. Their chemists added some good stuff to get it to last longer on the newer "hard" clearcoats. I haven't used it in several years but I understand its much better than before.

From what I know, it'll give Meguiar's #26 a run for its money. Hopefully Barry and the boys will step up to the challenge and improve #26 (not that it needs a lot of improving).

adc100

Its always good to hear that someone with experience endorses what you are using. Since I retired I have a little more time to keep my vehicles looking nice. I use the #26 paste now after having started with the liquid. I'll go over to the car wash and 45 minutes later the car is washed and half the car is polished. A week later I go back to do the other half. Must have done the car 4 or 5 times after the initial 2 coats in January. I really need to get out and give some of the other stuff a try. But the #26 sure works and looks good for my taste. I have gotten a lot of info from this board.

Thanks to all.

koury

It's amazing to me how you anti-Z people get your panties in a bunch when someone mentions that word in a positive light, yet when someone says something negative about it, there's silence. What a bunch of hypocrites on this board.

protegextwo

Great post, can't wait for you to bless us with more of your wisdom on Waxes and Polishs.

-Larry

lake5

thanks for the links via email. i think Zaino is like you said, more work than i need to go through for my everyday car and truck. i'm gonna go with the meguiar products like you suggested. which one do you recommend for the clearcoat?

redsilverado

use the paste #26. i found a product for you that works awesome on the plastic trim we talked about. it's a 3M product that lasts and lasts. check your email for the link.

koury

Nuff said

pjyoung

I don't really mind one not liking that product. That's their perogative. Heck, I am looking at using a Meguiars product to polish the swirl marks out of my wifes new car before using the other stuff to shine it. Why? Because IMHO, the result in using the other stuff is far too "gradual" for my tastes. I do however take exception to being referred to as a "Zombie".

BTW - the Meguiars web site tip's page makes them seem just as anal about white cotton towels as anybody on that other site. I grant you, there was no mention of "blue Dawn".

koury

I agree with you. I use the Z product, but I also use other products that compete with Z. I too took exception to the Z-zombie comment, as that is an attack on me personally, whether intentional or not. It seems there are two sets of rules on this board - it's wrong for someone to mention Z positively, but OK to bash it. If this were the first time it happened, I'd just laugh it off and ignore it. But when some nitwit calls people zombies, I'd say he's crossed a line. Over-reaction? Maybe, but it's happened time and again.

bretfraz

Koury and PJ - You both have been around here for a long time and have offered your opinions and thrown knives a plenty during the past year or so.

I know from personal experience that you both love this fight. So your recent posts are just an act. Isn't it time to burn your time-worn script?

This room has seen plenty of battle damage. If you want to restart the flame wars, take it some place else.

All: I implore and beseech everyone else that posts and lurks here to NOT take the bait as seen in the past few posts from Koury and PJ. Don't comment or post. Just leave it alone and they will go away.

I post this for the edification of new readers who are wondering what this is all about. If anyone wants more info, e-mail me offline. I'll be happy to provide a history lesson.

Please make an effort to keep this room on topic.

pjyoung

I wasn't restarting anything. For the past several months, both topics have been going fine. Even when people weren't avid fans of the forbidden product. Then someone goes and does this "wink wink" bullsh-- about some folks being zombies. Talk all you want about products. Refrain from expressing views on individuals. Fair enuf?

pjyoung

the only thing I "dish out" is opinion on car wax. Not individuals (bret please point out where I've done that in the past?)

Geez I responded right after your comment, did you miss it?

So...let me get the ground rules...It's okay for someone to call you a zombie, but when you request that they keep comments like that to themselves, that's starting a "flame war".

Out.

killakella123

You are all getting very worked up about "car paint protection."

redsilverado

just what the heck is a Zombie? if it has something to do with zaino, then i must be one too. but it doesn't bother me cause i also use the stuff you all talk about in here. name calling isn't needed in here or in any topic, so i do back ya on that.

koury

I suppose it was only a matter of time before you chriped in. I've always advocated free speech about these products, and how silly it is to "ban" discussion of a very good product just because some feel there should be a "Z-free" topic. Yet we've had our wrists slapped many times for simply letting folks in this forum know there is another topic that Edmunds has yet to figure out how to incorporate into an overall paint care discussion, which is really the core cause of this "dispute" to begin with. And yet it's OK when someone derides that product in this forum - very hypocritical and unfair to say the least. When newcomers to this forum ask general questions about paint care products, I and others have simply stated there is another topic, and you and your band cry foul. Please spare me the high road, you've been involved much more deeply in these battles than I.

adc100

a question but... I've been using "Avon's Skin-so-Soft" bath oil to remove tar and other things- doesn't work to well on bugs. This is too late- but I wonder if it hurts clear coats??? It's seems to be O.K. so far-in fact I love it. (No I don't sell Avon, but I did see on the Avon site it has been reduced from like 12 bucks to 7 I believe.) I only ask because someone else a while back recommended it and I started using it. Maybe someone can put some light on the subject??

bretfraz

As long as you clean off the area right after using Skin So Soft, I don't think any harm will be done. Of course you'll want to slap on a little #26 afterwards.

Skin So Soft is one of those amazing products that can do everything. I haven't used it in years but I always hear someone using it in some unique way. Incredible.

Don't forget that bug goo is a different chemical composition than tar. Most "bug and tar removers" only remove tar because they are usually a petroleum product.

Bug goo is very acidic. Try baking soda and water or something that will neutralize the acid.

If the bugs have been on there awhile, their acidity will eat into the paint and cause serious damage. You've got to go to cleaners and compounds sometimes.

lonestarsled

adc100 - just came in from outside to put some avon skin so soft on to keep the bugs off of me! We have a ton of mosquitos here in Houston due to the recent floodings. But here is something interesting you can check out about cleaning bugs off your car's finish. I would incorporate the use into the washing of the car, debug then wash to remove remaining skin so soft. But on the other hand I do not think a cars finish is as delicate as most people tend to believe. Living in Houston, with it's pollution and high humidity and crap all over the roads and my 10 year old Ranger still shining fairly well and has never seen the inside of a garage speaks well for todays - or at least the '90-ish finishes. My 2000 LHS has yet to stand up to the test of time but I am sure it will. Check this link out:

http://www.3m.com/market/automotive/newsletter/winter98pg4.html

fastdriver

pjyoung-

Zombie?? Where'd they get that from? It's Zainoist! That's what us Zaino freaks are called! ;-)) Geez, you'd think they get it right after all this in-fighting.

When I turned in Christine(300M) for my 2001 Acura CL-S, the dealer couldn't call Chrysler fast enough to make arrangements to buy it from Chrysler Financial. He said it was a "creme-puff"!! It LOOKED terrific for 3 years old thanks to that product I used, but had he run the VIN on their computer he would have seen that that "creme" was sour!

Happy polishing/waxing everyone. I love the summer!

fastdriver

ben54

I'm ready to do serious work on my White Lexus SC430. Any recommendations on polish/wax that is geared more for lighter colors? ....or does car color make ANY difference. Open to any/all suggestions..... Thanks

lake5

thanks for all the help, but i have another question for you. after detailing the truck, i notice some water spots on my windows. not real bad, but just enough that i think they could be buffed out. is there is a compound that can be used without scratching? do you think i should use the zaino stuff for glass?

jster

I suspect the reason why skin-so-soft works as a tar remover is because it contains mineral oils (like a lot of skin care products). Most commercial tar removers also contain mineral spirits or mineral oils.

In which case--I would treat it the same as any other tar remover--wash the car first--then apply the tar remover (and don't rub too hard). When you are done, rinse it off and as Bretfraz said--reapply the protectant.

redsilverado

after asking here and experimenting with different products, i finally came upon some polish made by Blue Coral. it comes in a tube and is called "clearcoat polish". use it with a damp cloth, and apply and rub it onto the glass by hand. it will remove the water spots and will not scratch.

rayfbaird

I have worked with a number of colors over the years, navy blue, silver gray, bronze, bright red and white.

I bought my white car 3 years ago. Surprize. It is by far the easiest color to take care of. My silver peeled after a few years and had to be repainted. The dark red was oxydized, and while it looks good, it requires more frequent care to maintain it.

But the white has required the least amount of care. I think there are 2 reasons for this. White doesn't heat up as much as colored pigments, and I think white is just a harder paint.

The only thing I found needs to be avoided with white is something that dries white. It's harder to see on a white finish. For this reason I prefer Meguiar's.

adc100

jster/lonestarsled.

Mr_Shiftright

The topic header specifically requests no ZAINO posts and I feel as host that I am bound to keep this discussion a) polite, and b) directed on topic.

So, please, no Zaino posting and no flames, otherwise I will promptly freeze this topic with regret since there is good information available here.

Therefore, Zaino posts will be deemed "provocative" and I'll have to use host's discretion as to how to deal with disruption at that point.

Thanks for your cooperation!

regards

Shiftright the Host

armtdm

I have a can of the paste Marque D'elagance that I use. Does a great job. Not sure how ong it lasts though. Like all carnuba waxes the durability is not there whether it be #26, Cillinite or any of them. A month ot two at the most!!!!!!

rayfbaird

Consumer reports did something recently on car waxes and said that nothing endured beyond 2 months, including thoses that advertized a year. But these were panels on the roof, not parked in carports, or garages. These were fully exposed to the elements. My Dad's car is a garage Car unless being run, and the wax coat lasts about 6 months.

pjyoung

that 2 months is pretty good for a "wax", but polymers do last longer, even if the car isn't garaged. Of course, knowing Consumer Reports, they most likely parked the car next to a steel mill/acid rain factory to test it's "durability".

joe166

I think there are so many factors contributing to durability that our anecdotal experiences are useless to compare products. Why don't we just use what we like, listen to others respectfully, ignore what we don't agree with and enjoy ourselves? Personally, I have found that at different times of the year the product I currently use has wildly fluctuating durability. Same bottle, so it can't be different lots. I suspect that the water in my neighborhood is to blame. When it first comes out of the hose sometimes there is a white foam that comes out. When I use that to rinse the cars (or wash them), the beading is gone within two weeks. When I let it run until clear (about two minutes), the durability is back. The only real way to test durability is the panel way. Put the different products on the same paint job in the same location and see which lasts longer. Unless someone finds a product that has an enormous advantage in that type of test, I expect I will still use the product that I like. I do laugh at those who swear their particular product lasts for a year but admit that they "renew" it every other week. Friends, that is not an accurate test for what I consider durability. It is fine if you want to do it, but it is not a year long durable wax (or polymer). I expect that mineral oil or kerosene will bead up for a year if you put it on every other day or so.

lake5

i tried the blue coral stuff on the glass, and woohoo........worked like a charm. also, the new 3M product you told me about works great on all the exterior vinyl and plastic. doesn't leave a greasy smear and doesn't dry up, allowing junk to stick. bugs fall right off. been through 3 washes now and still repells like you said. thanks

lonestarsled

What is this new product you are talking. Is it a vinyl/rubber dressing? You can't tease us like that. Spill the beans!

redsilverado

glad you liked the 3M stuff, i knew you'd like it as much as i did. on my rado, there is a tailgate protecter that gets touched a lot with my hands that are always dowsed with corian dust. before i started using the stuff, i had to really scrub to get all the white out of the pores in the plastic. now i just rinse it of with water, and it's gone, nothing sticks.

checkme

Bretfaz recommends Meguiar's #26 wax. I tried it this weekend. Conclusion? Impressed- very impressed.

I have a dark blue car, and it looked even darker after the #26 was applied. Mother's doesn't look as dark, although Mother's is an excellent wax, and I think their polish is much better than Meguiar's Deep Crystal polish.

Anyone who is interested in the #26 wax should try it. I myself plan on using it from now on.

adc100

I started with the liquid, but now use the paste. From the advice on this board the paste is possibly more durable. I think it is easier/more consistant to apply. It is more difficult to buff off but not really a big deal. I'm comparing it with the staying power of the Medallion Premium Paint Protectant and after 7 weeks, both look about the same and still bead water nicely. I hasten to add that the vehicle has only been washed once but is an outside car (truck).

mrdetailer

A machine makes it easier to use a Paste.

A machine is much faster, but works best with liquids. The machine is much better for deep cleaning and waxing. You're arm cannot even begin to match the cleaning power. A Paste is easier to apply by hand. Best yet if this procedure is followed.

Clean off water spots before you start this process, or they will be locked up in the wax.

1. I always use a machine for a polish (Meguiar's #7 yellow glaze or #5 for new car finishes) I do not use a clear coat prep or haze remover unless the surface is oxydized.

2. For a second coat I use a good liquid, Meguiar's Gold Class, or #26 hard yellow liquid wax with a machine application. This is generally all that is needed for VERTICAL surfaces.

3. After that is done I put a paste wax on the horizontal surfaces, roof, hood, trunk, and tailgate. These areas suffer much more from environmental damage.

The use of the machine removes surface imperfections, and requires a much smaller application of wax. The hand wax goes on in a much thinner coat after this process and is muuuch easier to remove. My can of Meguiars hard yellow #26 paste has lasted with this method for over 30 applications.

Even Meguiars recommends putting a second coat on horizontal surfaces.

I found Meguiar's Hard Yellow #26 or Gold Class, and Mother's to all be good in paste waxes, but #26 lasts longer. Kitt and Rain Dance are OK, but Turtle Wax definitely doesn't last as long in my dry Western climate experience.

adc100

I have never used one. What brands do you use/recommend and what price range needs to be reached?? This question was probably asked before. Is orbital the same as random?

bretfraz

Yeah, I posted some info and links in here some time ago. You may want to scroll back and check them out.

Just about everyone should buy a random orbital buffer/polisher. They're easy to use, won't damage your paint, and are affordable. Top brands are Chamberlain and Waxmaster. You'll pay $60-90 for a good one.

You'll notice a difference in bonnet size. Smaller is easier to use and lighter, bigger covers more area.

FWIW, I have a Sears 10" orbital made by Waxmaster. I've had it 15 years and it's still working great.

Pros use heavy-duty buffers by Gem and a few other mfrs. A 9" Gem orbital is close to $200. But they'll last a lifetime.

mrdetailer

I like the larger 10" surface.

dorflives

Greetings, I have a trick cleaning question: How do I clean cigarette smoke residue from the interior of a car, especially the head liner. Also, what is best way to remove old smoke stench.

Thanks

checkme

Is it possible to use polish with a clear coat? My clear coat is in fairly good shape. Will using polish make it shinier, or not reallY?

jster

What kind of polish do you mean? Clear coat is just paint--it's a thin layer of clear paint over your base color coat--a "two stage" finish.

checkme

Meguiar's and Mother's both sell "multi-step" systems. They usually consist of four steps. The first is a wash. The second is a mildly abrasive surface cleaner, which removes oxidation and the like. Then there is a polish, which is supposed to give you a brighter, deeper shine. Finally there's a wax.

I think I heard someone say that polish is not necessary if you have a clear-coat finish. I myself used polish on my last car, which also had a clear coat but was in miserable shape, and didn't notice any real improvement in the shine.

I am wondering whether it is worth using a polish on my new car. There are many to choose from. Two that come to mind a Meguiar's Deep Crystal and Show Car Glaze. Should I use these? Will they add any shine to a new car? Or are they intended to cover up swirl marks and mask other flaws? If I should use one, which should I use?

Also, are any of these polishes non-abrasive? Since my paint is in pretty good shape, I don't think I want to start using abrasive things yet.

adc100

So many experts here I hate to say much. But I did use the Meguiars #7 followed by the #26 liquid, followed by #26 paste. To me It couldn't look better. (01 Sentra).

rayfbaird

I went to a Toyota lot yesterday with my 10 year old Subaru. Guess which car had the most shine? Hee! Hee!

A glaze/sealer like Meguiar's #7 showcar glaze, or a #5 glaze for newer cars does 3 things. 1. It removes light scratches and stains which can occur even under normal driving conditions. 2. It seals the clearcoat making it more resistent to further staining. And 3. It adds nourishing oils to improve paint finish. It's like adding lotion to the paint.

The result is you will have a depth and clarity to rival and beat even new cars.

The reason you didn't get good results on the other car was that the finish needed a more agressive treatment like Meguiar's #9 surface prep. After using that once or twice after I purchased the car, I only use the glaze twice a year.

The deep crystal system is not as durable as the professional line. I'ts cheaper, but for all the labor involved, you might as well spend a few more bucks and get a result that lasts.

I've found that a liquid #26 applied by machine followed by a hand applied paste #26 is a very durable combination.

jster

IMHO adc100 and rayfbaird gave you real good advice. The only thing I would add is that one post made reference to "nourishing" oils--and that's not totally correct. Products like Meguiars #7 do contain mineral oils--but modern paint jobs don't absorb them like "skin". The oils are there--and add to the shine--you sort of "seal" the oils in with the wax or sealant you use after. More semantics than anything else, I guess.

If you are interested in abrasives--and the level of them in different products--here is a series of posts from another board:

http://autopia-carport.com/forum/showthread.php3?threadid=963

(Brad B.'s list 1-10 goes from least abrasive to most abrasive. The other gentleman on there, Ron Ketchum, is a chemist for a company that manufactures many of these type of products--he is the most knowldegable person on this subject I've seen on the internet. I have learned a lot from questioning him and reading his posts).

Good luck.

mrdetailer

This weekend I worked on a Maroon 1997 Mazda. We used Meguiar's #7 since it hadn't been treated for over a year. Otherwise I would have used Meguiar's #5 New car glaze. We also then used Meguiar's hard Yellow #26 liquid followed by a #26 paste.

The glaze and liquid wax were applied using a Sears Random Orbital buffer. The paste was applied by hand. I feel that the random buffer is better for us amateurs. I'll leave the machines that can gouge to the pros.

The windshield washers are on the hood, and you could see a visible difference close to the nozzles where the machine couldn't get. The finish was much darker and clear.

adc100

.

bretfraz

That is a great referral to Autopia. I had not been there in ages and forgot how good it is regarding detailing advice. And the posters seem to act like adults when talking about their faves.

Everyone here should go to that website in addition to hanging out with us at Edmunds. You'll learn a lot about detailing and car care products.

Isn't the internet wonderful?