Thanks for the links. The first and fourth confirm that the Optima's platform is different than the Sonata's. The second (and somewhat the fourth) confirm that the Optima's platform is indeed a new, Kia-sourced platform, used also for the Carens (Rondo). The third reference is not from Kia or Hyundai, but from a third-party review of the car, so we have no idea how factual the statement "...the MG-series Magentis is a loose development of parent Hyundai’s current NF Sonata platform" is. (I've seen many errors of fact in third-party car reviews!)
Maybe any further discussion on this topic should go to the Optima forum?
When you built a new Sonata SE 4-cylinder on the Hyundai website you are evidently doing it for the 2008 SE, not the 2009. The 2009 Sonata SE 4 cylinder manual trans has not been delivered to dealers yet according to a phone conversation I had with Hyundai customer service a few weeks ago. As with the 2008 SE, the 2009 SE 4 cylinder will be a manual trans while the V6 will be automatic.
I believe interest in the SE manual trans will increase in the future now that gasoline keeps going up in price. If you drive them correctly manual trans cars usually can exceed the mileage that you get from auto trans (you don't have to be in gear when coasting or going down hills). A good reason why most Europeans prefer manual trans over automatic - their gasoline prices have been above $5 per gallon for many years now.
I am getting 40 miles per gallon combined city/hwy in my 2000 Mazda. Of course, I try not to exceed the speed limit by more than 5 miles per hour.
If Hyundai customer service told you that the SE I4 will be exclusively an MT, then either they are mistaken, or the car that Motor Trend reviewed recently, a 2009 Sonata SE I4 with AT, in U.S. spec, is a one-off. Which I doubt.
"I believe interest in the SE manual trans will increase in the future now that gasoline keeps going up in price. If you drive them correctly manual trans cars usually can exceed the mileage that you get from auto trans (you don't have to be in gear when coasting or going down hills)."
No, that's not going to happen. Automatics today are extremely efficient and in most cases equal (or beat) the manual version of the same car. The days of there being a big gas mileage advantage to manual transmission cars is long over. Couple the lack of mileage advantage with the fact 99% of us (including me now, sigh...) have to deal with the horrible mess known as rush hour traffic, and no one other than a sadist wants to drive in that with a manual transmission.
Manual transmission is a dying beast, and I think in 10 years it will be gone. Just not practical in this country. Too much road construction and traffic everywhere you go to drive manual. Plus hardly anyone knows how to drive a manual transmission in America. Driving schools don't teach on anything but automatic. I know the few manual transmission die-hards keeping hoping and praying for a comeback, but it's time to face the facts, they are never going to be popular here. Either move to Europe or get with the program and learn to enjoy driving an auto, because soon that's going to be your only choice.
I love the auto on my 09 Limited V6. It's so smooth, just like everything with the car. Three months and 3,300 miles into ownership and the car is still a treat to drive. It makes my new 20 mile commute in heavy traffic each way much easier to deal with. Especially enjoying my free XM trial (which ends at the end of the month). I will probably sign up for it when it ends.
A manual transmission places greater discretion in the hands of the driver than an automatic. While today's automatics frequently equal or exceed manuals in EPA testing, the dedicated hypermiler will still do better with a manual than with an automatic.
For most American drivers (i.e., too preoccupied with the cell phone, the coffee, the makeup and/or the electric shaver during the daily commute), the automatic is easier, safer, and just as economical.
As a skilled and attentive driver, I prefer to have the choice. But I realize that you'd prefer that I and others of my type simply die off or "move to Europe." Someday you might win, but I would prefer not to have everything reduced to its lowest common denominator.
I don't think the act of driving an auto transmission automatically(excuse the pun) means someone is not a skilled or attentive driver. I grew up driving sticks but prefer automatics now. There are plenty of people out there that drive sticks that aren't skilled drivers and vice versa. Modern automatic tranny drivers are probably getting better mpg than a lot of manual tranny drivers and I think the fact that some EPA automatic mpg ratings are higher than the manual proves this out.
My point is that just because someone drives a stick doesn't make them a skilled, more attentive or frugal mpg driver automatically(there I go again ).
I have an 09 Sonata 4cyl with the Preferred Equip Package. Two questions:
(1) Is there any way to make (or should) the interior lights come on when I use the remote to open the car doors at night? It seems unusual that when opening the car at night, no interior lights come on.
(2) What does the "Auto" selection mean on the headlight selector? (When and what lights does this cause to operate?)
My interior lights always come on when I remote my car. They also automatically turn off when the engine is started. The mid-top light can be changed to do this by flipping the position, I don't remember which as I'm not typing from my car There's some extremely nice ergonomics on the lighting and functions to make it automatic.
The auto function handles your standard headlights and turns them on and off automatically based on amount of ambient light. I always leave it in auto..which will be bad if I ever drive a crappy car without auto headlights
Fair question. Car/manual aren't available to me today, and I wanted to remember to ask the question. On a quick look, I had not seen "auto" headlights explained, but I will go back and look for both items.
I like the idea of the "auto"function, but prefer to have the headlights "on" during the day, like daylight running lamps (for safety), so that's probably not the choice for me.
The dome light has two buttons: Door and On. If door is pushed in, the light will work just as you described. If On is pushed in, it will be on all the time. If neither is pushed in, the light will always stay off.
I didn't see this posted so sorry if its a repeat. The 09 Shop Manual is available online now. Here's the site. You do need to register to access it. There's also other interesting information on there if you poke around.
Havng just bought a limited 4cyl, does any one know if it has a timeing chain or belt. Do not see any thing in the mant.scheld. to check if its a belt.
Just purchased a Sonata 2009 limited with NAV. Enjoy the car but have noticed some idiosyncrasies with the NAV system. The route generation software doesn't seem to be on par with the Garmin (nuvi 350) route generation software. Rather than going straight for 4 or 5 blocks to get you to your destination it will attempt to utilize US or state roads. Changing to use shortest seems to only work for a portion of the trip and I'm not sure this option holds for future navigation.
Thats a good deal. I also have a VW Passat 07, so when I got the deal it looked ok. Price wise don't think you can beat these cars. How do you like it?
some good info here, guys, thanks for sharing. I am about to pull the trigger on a 2009 Sonata limited 4 cycl and am looking at an msrp of 24,735, but will get for 20,745 plus TT&L. Is that not a good deal? I'm a little confused zbout what you said earlier because the invoice on edmunds is 22,589, and KBB is 23,284. I'm estimating TT&L to be about 1600 for my total cost to be $22,345. The dealer is making the hold back 680 on the car. Should I try to go lower, can I go lower? thanks.
That sounds good. What state are you in? My deal was $20987 + del prep. +tx-tag-tittle. The deal prep sucks. Good luck. What color & what are your impression of this car?
The invoice on edmunds.com is $23,284 also. Be sure to include the destination charge when calculating invoice. So the dealer is actually getting only a small piece of the holdback for the car, assuming you are getting only the $2000 rebate. But don't worry about that--the dealer didn't have to offer a price of $20,745 plus TT&L if they aren't making enough money on the deal.
Some dealers are offering more below invoice than that on Sonatas, so you can try to go lower. The dealer may say "No". But they may say "OK". Can't hurt to try.
I'm in Texas. no dealer prep or anything. although i may have them tint the windows if they can match or beat a local place here. Havent decided on a color yet. Leaning towards slate blue or natural khaki. We originally were looking at the GLS with popular equipment package, but Limited wasnt that much more because I wanted the alloy wheels on the GLS.
Good to know thanks. does it depend on the state? what amounts are you seeing? I'm here in the Dallas area and these things are selling like hotcakes- I see them everywhere. I'm a little befuddled on why all the rebates and below invoice pricing. Guess I shouldnt worry and just take advantage of it!
If you can wait a bit to buy and want a car like the GLS with PEP but with alloys, the SE I4 should be arriving soon. It's like the GLS with PEP but with suspension and steering tweaks for sharper handling, 17" 5-spoke alloys (like the alloys from the Limited and SE in 2007-8), leather seating with cloth centers, leather wheel/shifter, faux metal trim on the dash (vs. woodgrain), and a rear lip spoiler. It will be priced between the GLS and Limited.
I don't have the exact figures in front of me right now, but we just recently purchased an 09 Sonata Ltd 4cyl, Willow Gray/Gray, with floor mats at Fairfax Hyundai in Fairfax, VA (we live in PA so we drove nearly 3.5 hours to get this car, it was worth it. The dealers around here wouldn't go below invoice). The MSRP you mentioned sounds almost identical to ours. After discount, rebates (we got the $500 loyalty rebate), etc, we left paying $18821 + $389 processing (profit) fee + TTL. The exact TTL is actually to be determined as we have a temp VA registration and are waiting for the C.O.A and a roughly $720 VA sales tax refund (6% on the difference between new and trade-in vehicles) so we can get the Sonata registered in PA. My wife loves this Sonata. It replaced an 04 Sonata LX that she swore she didn't want to replace until she saw the new one at the auto show in Pittsburgh this spring. By the way, on the way back from VA to PA, that new Sonata 4cyl auto returned 31.2 MPG over nearly a 200 mile trip! :shades:
Hard to believe so called "invoice" prices are the true cost of any car. If they were the true cost (absent holdback and dealer incentives)...dealers would not sell their product for $2,000-$3,000 under their cost or "invoice".
Most nondurables are marked up ~100% while durables at least 50%. Why should cars be any different?
Being 6'3" and over 60 I really like the space in the cabin. I have a GM card with $3K available against a purchase but I couldn't find a car that meant my criteria. My requirements was a car that I could get into without too much bending, 4 CYL, under 190” in length, and as much luxury options as I could get for a reasonable price. The new Malibu with all its praises requires me to twist and bend to enter the vehicle while the Buick has abandoned the 4 cylinder. The Sonota ride is comfortable and the car is only 2.5 " longer than my last car (Grand AM). Am enjoying the car. Likes: quiet, soft ride, comfort, lots of little storage spaces. MINOR dislikes: 1. Navigation System can be unreadable from sun glare, routing not very sophisticated, and can't add additional POI files. 2. Because of the large cabin size it has a big car feel when driving (cause I had a Grand Am) 3. Cannot see end when backing up (all cars seem to have this problem since the rear is higher than the front these days). Add a backup camera with the NAV system. 4. Would like trip computer to report current gas usage (does average). This could show good driving habits (and point out bad).
Just a comment: It seems that if you deal over the Internet they are more likely to give you an Out The Door price. I really like this as when the paperwork is filled out I don't care if the entire amount is dealer prep as long as the OTD price is the price agreed upon.
Finally, Hyundai's website and Edmunds seem to have the accurate information on the SE 4-cylinder model. It seems that it's automatic only, with either engine.
Piggybacking on the conversation regarding fuel economy differences between manual and automatic transmissions, I've noticed that it's becoming quite common for automatic versions of numerous models have EPA ratings higher than their manual counterparts. The Honda Civic with automatic gets 2mpg more on the highway than models with the manual transmission.
In reality, despite the EPA ratings, conventional wisdom still seems prove true. All other things being the same, a manual transmission will use less fuel than an automatic. I find Consumer Reports' fuel economy data to be far more reliable and useful than the EPA numbers. CR always manages to achieve superior numbers with a manual tranny.
I wonder how the EPA tests the manual vs the auto tranny? If they test each car exactly the same (I would like to think they do) and on some cars the manual gets better mpg while in others the auto gets better mpg, how do you explain the manaul not getting better in all cases?
I think that some auto trannies computers are just getting so darn good at shifting at the absolutely best rpm that is almost impossible for a human being to match it. Even considering the power needed for the auto and the extra weight.
I really hope that it is just not a difference in the testing as that would make it hard to really compare different vehicles using the EPA numbers.
I have a similar problem. The graphic overlay does not come up when I use the NAV. I can see the words like previous addresses but the nice gui is missing. The Radio seems ok. took mine in over two weeks ago and the dealer tells me that they will not have anything until September some time. I was initially told that they would have the replacement in 10 days.
Anyone else notice Hyundai has raised prices on the Sonata a bit? For example, on the GLS with AT the MSRP including destination went up $200, or about 1%.
This is an update on my 09 Sonata SE. At 8800 miles, there has been no issues with the car, gas mileage on the highway ranges from 29 mpg to 32 mpg depending on terrain and the amount of ethanol in the gasoline. 29 mpg has been consistent driving 75mph and 32 mpg doing 65mph. Until now, my service department has been using 10W30 but I switched to 5W30 (Mobile Clean 5000) two weeks ago; would be embarking on a 1000 mile round trip this weekend and see if there's any change in mpg with the 5W30 oil. The transmission is also shifting better as the mileage increases, and it is a fun to drive vehicle. Acceleration feels stronger compared to when the car was in its first 1500 miles (waiting to see what it does by the 15,000 mile mark). The Solus KH16 tires are doing better with age with regards to response and the wet traction is very good consisdering all the rainfall here lately. The service department has been very friendly and professional except for one incident; they used 6 quarts of oil for my last oil change even though the owner's manual specifies 5.49 quarts ( approximately 5.5 quarts). I have been going back and forth with them and they are insisting that the 3.3L V6 holds 6 quarts of oil ( even though the reading on the dipstick is past the Full mark). I will be calling Hyundai corporate to get a definite answer because I know over-filling the oil is not good for any engine.
I am looking for a 2009 Sonata GLS automatic with no options. I have gotten some quotes in the $18663 OTD prices. Mostly it is in the $16500 to $17000 range before TTL.
Has anyone have any good prices quotes in the Twin Cities area and any experiences with any dealers around town?
there is a forum called prices paid and buying experiences - that is dedicated to your question and you will get more response there; this forum is more for discussing the actual car.
Sorry to hear that. I was told there was a national backorder 3 weeks ago... I called dealer last week and they were supposed to check status and call me back, but haven't done it yet. I'm going to suggest they pull a unit out of a car on the lot, and see what they say before I escalate. I feel I'm not getting the full value I'm paying for...
Comments
http://baby.boom.com.hk/portfolio/research/Korea/KR_000270_050811.pdf
http://www.babez.de/kia/kia-magentis-optima.php (text comes straight from Kia press release.)
http://www1.autotrader.com.au/Mellor/Mellor.Nsf/story2/204DCEE055220C8FCA2571C50- 00AC6CE
https://shop.sae.org/automag/globalvehicles/11-2005/1-113-11-8.pdf (you'll have to scroll down a bit to find the info on Kia)
Maybe any further discussion on this topic should go to the Optima forum?
I believe interest in the SE manual trans will increase in the future now that gasoline keeps going up in price. If you drive them correctly manual trans cars usually can exceed the mileage that you get from auto trans (you don't have to be in gear when coasting or going down hills). A good reason why most Europeans prefer manual trans over automatic - their gasoline prices have been above $5 per gallon for many years now.
I am getting 40 miles per gallon combined city/hwy in my 2000 Mazda. Of course, I try not to exceed the speed limit by more than 5 miles per hour.
No, that's not going to happen. Automatics today are extremely efficient and in most cases equal (or beat) the manual version of the same car. The days of there being a big gas mileage advantage to manual transmission cars is long over. Couple the lack of mileage advantage with the fact 99% of us (including me now, sigh...) have to deal with the horrible mess known as rush hour traffic, and no one other than a sadist wants to drive in that with a manual transmission.
Manual transmission is a dying beast, and I think in 10 years it will be gone. Just not practical in this country. Too much road construction and traffic everywhere you go to drive manual. Plus hardly anyone knows how to drive a manual transmission in America. Driving schools don't teach on anything but automatic. I know the few manual transmission die-hards keeping hoping and praying for a comeback, but it's time to face the facts, they are never going to be popular here. Either move to Europe or get with the program and learn to enjoy driving an auto, because soon that's going to be your only choice.
I love the auto on my 09 Limited V6. It's so smooth, just like everything with the car. Three months and 3,300 miles into ownership and the car is still a treat to drive. It makes my new 20 mile commute in heavy traffic each way much easier to deal with. Especially enjoying my free XM trial (which ends at the end of the month). I will probably sign up for it when it ends.
For most American drivers (i.e., too preoccupied with the cell phone, the coffee, the makeup and/or the electric shaver during the daily commute), the automatic is easier, safer, and just as economical.
As a skilled and attentive driver, I prefer to have the choice. But I realize that you'd prefer that I and others of my type simply die off or "move to Europe." Someday you might win, but I would prefer not to have everything reduced to its lowest common denominator.
I don't think the act of driving an auto transmission automatically(excuse the pun) means someone is not a skilled or attentive driver. I grew up driving sticks but prefer automatics now. There are plenty of people out there that drive sticks that aren't skilled drivers and vice versa. Modern automatic tranny drivers are probably getting better mpg than a lot of manual tranny drivers and I think the fact that some EPA automatic mpg ratings are higher than the manual proves this out.
My point is that just because someone drives a stick doesn't make them a skilled, more attentive or frugal mpg driver automatically(there I go again
(1) Is there any way to make (or should) the interior lights come on when I use the remote to open the car doors at night? It seems unusual that when opening the car at night, no interior lights come on.
(2) What does the "Auto" selection mean on the headlight selector? (When and what lights does this cause to operate?)
Thanks.
There's some extremely nice ergonomics on the lighting and functions to make it automatic.
The auto function handles your standard headlights and turns them on and off automatically based on amount of ambient light. I always leave it in auto..which will be bad if I ever drive a crappy car without auto headlights
I like the idea of the "auto"function, but prefer to have the headlights "on" during the day, like daylight running lamps (for safety), so that's probably not the choice for me.
Thanks for the info.
Here is a link to a download of the 09 manual pdf:
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/images/owners/service/manual/2009_Sonata_Manual.zip
http://hmaservice.com/
does any one know if it has a timeing chain or belt. Do not see any thing in the mant.scheld. to check if its a belt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Theta_engine
I did find the full-length international version of the 09 brochure if anyone's interested:
http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/dataPDF/e-brochure/sonatafl.pdf
Price wise don't think you can beat these cars. How do you like it?
I am about to pull the trigger on a 2009 Sonata limited 4 cycl and am looking at an msrp of 24,735, but will get for 20,745 plus TT&L. Is that not a good deal? I'm a little confused zbout what you said earlier because the invoice on edmunds is 22,589, and KBB is 23,284. I'm estimating TT&L to be about 1600 for my total cost to be $22,345. The dealer is making the hold back 680 on the car. Should I try to go lower, can I go lower? thanks.
Some dealers are offering more below invoice than that on Sonatas, so you can try to go lower. The dealer may say "No". But they may say "OK". Can't hurt to try.
any regrets on the car?
also, I'm not getting the nav system.
Most nondurables are marked up ~100% while durables at least 50%. Why should cars be any different?
1. Navigation System can be unreadable from sun glare, routing not very sophisticated, and can't add additional POI files.
2. Because of the large cabin size it has a big car feel when driving (cause I had a Grand Am)
3. Cannot see end when backing up (all cars seem to have this problem since the rear is higher than the front these days). Add a backup camera with the NAV system.
4. Would like trip computer to report current gas usage (does average). This could show good driving habits (and point out bad).
Piggybacking on the conversation regarding fuel economy differences between manual and automatic transmissions, I've noticed that it's becoming quite common for automatic versions of numerous models have EPA ratings higher than their manual counterparts. The Honda Civic with automatic gets 2mpg more on the highway than models with the manual transmission.
In reality, despite the EPA ratings, conventional wisdom still seems prove true. All other things being the same, a manual transmission will use less fuel than an automatic. I find Consumer Reports' fuel economy data to be far more reliable and useful than the EPA numbers. CR always manages to achieve superior numbers with a manual tranny.
I think that some auto trannies computers are just getting so darn good at shifting at the absolutely best rpm that is almost impossible for a human being to match it. Even considering the power needed for the auto and the extra weight.
I really hope that it is just not a difference in the testing as that would make it hard to really compare different vehicles using the EPA numbers.
Aside from that I love the car.
link title
The transmission is also shifting better as the mileage increases, and it is a fun to drive vehicle. Acceleration feels stronger compared to when the car was in its first 1500 miles (waiting to see what it does by the 15,000 mile mark). The Solus KH16 tires are doing better with age with regards to response and the wet traction is very good consisdering all the rainfall here lately.
The service department has been very friendly and professional except for one incident; they used 6 quarts of oil for my last oil change even though the owner's manual specifies 5.49 quarts ( approximately 5.5 quarts). I have been going back and forth with them and they are insisting that the 3.3L V6 holds 6 quarts of oil ( even though the reading on the dipstick is past the Full mark). I will be calling Hyundai corporate to get a definite answer because I know over-filling the oil is not good for any engine.
I am looking for a 2009 Sonata GLS automatic with no options. I have gotten some quotes in the $18663 OTD prices. Mostly it is in the $16500 to $17000 range before TTL.
Has anyone have any good prices quotes in the Twin Cities area and any experiences with any dealers around town?
Please let me know. Thanks.
it has to be very dark it seems for the lights to come on when you have them set to auto.
The trip computer buttons should be on the steering wheel controls, where they have them looks kind of cheap, but they are functional.