2009-2010 Hyundai Sonata



  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    In other words, if you paid more than $1,200 or so more for the Accord in 1998 than the Sonata, you made out better financially with the Sonata--assuming you invested the difference at a minimum of 6% interest, or maybe paid off another debt that was at 6% or greater.

    That's a good example though of how the depreciation difference fades over time. In your earlier example, the difference in value was $4500-5100 for 2006 models. But after ten years, the difference is down to $2200. It doesn't take much of a price difference to make that up, given the time value of money. I'll bet 1998 Accord cost a lot more than $1200, or even $2200, more than a 1998 Sonata.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    There are signs Hyundai's resale value is going up. Edmunds recently wrapped up a long-term test of a 2007 Azera. With more than 18K miles on the odometer, the depreciation % was only 1% less than a similar Camry tested, except with about 3K additional miles. Also, as a followup, someone provided an example from KBB, this time Avalon LTD vs. Azera LTD, where the raw upfront cost difference is about 7K, depreciation % after 19K miles are about the same, with the Azera checks in less than 1% behind the same Avalon. Both cars lost at an estimated 8K from MSRP (excellent condition)

    I know these are just retained values, which may or may not be representative in the real-world, but it still speaks volume about the improvement of the brand.
  • micro99micro99 Member Posts: 51
    There is one element of this discussion that never receives much mention and that is simply the degree to which "resale figures and especially dealer trade-in figures" for Honda will maintain their good to excellent relative historic values ! It is my experience that Honda dealers have only shown a willingness to discount new vehicles close to invoice in the last year or two, and my guess that the "dealer offers" on used Hondas come trade -in time have dropped accordingly but are not yet reflected in KBB stats. Maybe Honda Accord owners will experience a shock come trade-in time in future ?
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697

    It hasn't been updated yet.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    The invoice price of a 2008 Accord LX-P automatic is $20720
    The invoice price of a 2009 Sonata GLS with PEP 2 to make it comparably equipped is $19774, I actually think a GLS with PEP2 purchased for under $20K would be a nice car for that price.
    But with merely $976 dollars purchase price difference than a new Honda Accord LX-P, the resale will kill you.
    It will probably take 12-15 years or more for the price difference at resale to get that narrow.
    There will need to be more than $4000 in incentives to get the selling price down to the below $16K street price needed to make it safe bet for the typical buyer who may want to trade it within 5 years or so.
    It will probably be into calendar year 2009 before the combination of rebates and incentives might get that big, Maybe a big incentive on a 2-3 year lease would let you lease one for less than much the higher residual Accords and Camrys.
    The people who may buy a 2009 Sonata in the next few months with only small or no rebates and above invoice pricing are going to be throwing away a lot of money.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, just like anyone who buys a new model when it first comes out, before the discounts and rebates arrive--e.g. people who bought the 2007 Camry when it first came out (now there's hefty discounts and rebates, and low lease rates ala $179/mo. for the LE), and people who leased the 2008 Accord LX up until the past few days, when the lease rate dropped from $259/mo. to $219/mo. Those who want to be first on their block to own a new model or a redux pay for the privilege. As for me, I'd wait a few months until the 2008 Sonatas are gone and the 2009 Sonata is slugging it out with all the other mid-sizers out there without the old model to suck up the incentives.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Maybe not, especially when signs of resale values for Hyundai vehicles are on the rise. And, with upcoming additions such as the Genesis nearing availability, the rise of resale values would only be propelled further.

    Most of us know the Sonata can go up and take on the rest of the class. So is the price increase justified? I'd like to think so. I mean, take the base trim for example, it goes up by some $750 if I recall correctly, but you'd get so much more compared to the current model; with all of the extra features and arguably a much better visual (subjective), not to mention the power increase, yet still achieving the best fuel economy in the class. Similar case can be made on other trims of the model.

    The weakening of the dollars may have something to do with this, but perhaps also, it's all about the perception game. I mean, the perception is generally in favor of something more expensive than the cheaper counterpart, because they are more expensive, they percept to be better (psychological effect?). I'd venture to guess Hyundai wants more of the general public to find out perspective consumers are still be able to feel confident about a car even though it may not say a Camry, or an Accord, for example.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
  • jal012773jal012773 Member Posts: 63
    I love the interior update, but am not impressed with the exterior update. The grill is too big and I'm of the opinion that less is more when it comes to the chrome accents. I hate chrome. Reminds me of the 70's.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Fortunately, the GLS and SE don't have the chrome doo-dads, or the new alloys that are on the Limited (which I don't happen to like much).
  • southhavenjensouthhavenjen Member Posts: 22
    Does anyone know if they changed the leather on the '09's? My parents looked at an '09 in Florida and said the beige leather was a yucky yellowish color.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    They probably saw a car with the "cocoa brown" leather, new for 2009. The pics I've seen of the camel leather (e.g. in the C/D review) were not yellowish at all.
  • tonycdtonycd Member Posts: 223
    I THINK this was it.

    The bummer part of the car was inside. The fake wood was replaced by fake aluminum that didn't impress me, and the middles of the seats were upholstered in some sort of coarse horizontal weave that's hard to describe. Call it a semi-faithful rendering of a gray lawn chair upholstered in flat vinyl-like tubing.

    It wasn't my idea of sporty, but I guess someone thought it had Seoul. Pity, because that interior is the only way to get the uprated suspension, wheels and tires (except for the prohibitively pricey modification route).
  • tonycdtonycd Member Posts: 223
    At these prices for a Sonata Limited, the Azera and its own whopper discounts start to become an intriguing alternative.

    If you could find an Azera Limited base rather than the more common Ultimate package (300 watt stereo instead of 600, half the fake wood, no power tilt/telescope wheel, adjustable pedals, memory seats or rain-sensing wipers), you'd still have more room, power and ride comfort for not a whole lot more money.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    So you're saying the middle of the SE's seats is upholstered in vinyl, with leather on the sides? That sounds really weird. The press release I read talked about cloth in the center sections. Hope there's an SE at my local auto show in a couple of weeks so I can see what that looks like.

    What color was the SE's interior? Even prior to 2009 MY, Sonata offered two dash trims: woodgrain for tan interiors, and "metalgrain" for grey interiors. So if you saw a grey interior, it's possible the tan interior would have woodgrain. Just a thought.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Probably the same people that buy a decked out Avalon for what they can get a Lexus350 for. But I agree, it does seem a little redundant and even though it usually got good reviews....I hardly ever see an Azera on the road.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I just saw an ad last night (Towne Hyundai in NJ) for a 2007 Azera SE for under $20k. I agree that is quite a bargain for a 268 hp near-luxury sedan.

    But I wonder if the Azera is defunct? It's nearly March and no 2008 model yet. With the Genesis coming soon and starting under $30k, and the Sonata reaching into the upper $20s now (Limited with nav), maybe the Azera will go bye-bye? After all, who would buy an Azera Limited at over $30k list when a well-equipped and similarly-powered RWD Genesis starts at under $30k?
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    The '08 Azera has been out for several weeks. See the Azera forum (and/or Fitsmall). The '07 Azera was rated at 263 HP, I think the 268 HP you mentioned was for the '08s. That may increase for '09 since the 3.8L engine is estimated at 290 HP in the Genesis.

    Maybe your area of MN is relatively flat, but where I am in CT, RWD is practically not an alternative. I barely made it up a hill yesterday within a half hour or so of a plow/sand truck clearing that road. FWD '05 Sonata...no more than an inch of snow, but it was icy underneath. No RWD car could have made that hill.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Oh yes, I see that Edmunds.com finally put the 2008 prices out there. Funny that HMA hasn't put the 2008 Azera on its web site yet...

    Something else that is weird: the 2009 Sonata 3.3L V6 has 249 hp, right? But the 3.3L engine in the 2008 Azera GLS has only 234 hp according to Edmunds.com. In other words, it's the Gen 1 3.3L motor. And you can get a 2009 Sonata Limited (leather, moonroof etc.) for about the same list price as a base Azera (cloth, no moonroof). So...what is the attraction of the Azera, at least the GLS, other than a little more interior room? :confuse:
  • xj220xj220 Member Posts: 78
    Mushy, cushy ride you can't get anywhere else except on Buicks. At least that's what people are saying. I know two people that own Azeras and both are over 60 (I think).
  • xj220xj220 Member Posts: 78
    Jaxs, one big problem with your analysis. You're comparing Invoice Price when clearly there's another price that KBB calls "what consumers are really paying for this vehicle". For that, Accord=$22,339. The 2009 Sonata obviously has no price indicator for that but MSRP is $19,995. Even if we to say that the Sonata was purchased at MSRP the difference is $2,344 (not "merely $976" as you say). Oh, and since there was no 2009 data, I checked the depriciation for the 2008 Sonata GLS and here's what I found...

    Sonata 5-yr depriciation = $11,280
    Accord 5-yr depriciation = $10,186

    A $1,094 depriciation hit is fine by me considering the money I save up front. And also, Hyundai's 10-yr warranty is another value added to the product that Honda can't match.
  • rv65rv65 Member Posts: 1,076
    Not all dealers have them yet. Maybe within the next 1 to 4 weeks. Dealers are still getting 08's. Hope this helps.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    They are in no rush if they still have tons of 2008s with more on the way.
  • howard18howard18 Member Posts: 53
    This is the last week of Feb but i still cannot see any '09 Sonata at the dealership, anybody see that?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Some dealers have them already. It really depends on the allocation, and how many 08 units are left on the lot.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    There shouldn't be many 08s remaining on order, as I recall the Alab. plant shifted to 09s soon after the new year. The bulk is on the dealer lots I would assume.
  • eggenbergereggenberger Member Posts: 7
    My wife and I checked out all the midsize sedans in this class and decided that the 09 Sonota Limited V-6 is clearly the best choice for us. We compared features, power, handling, noise level, roominess, mileage, price, etc. and the Sonota was a clear winner. We are planning on keeping it for a full 100,000 miles, possibly handing it down to my daughter, and it will have a bumper-to-bumper warranty for its life with us (since we are getting an extended warranty but not from the dealer). Resale value doesn't concern us.
    Had some real problems with some of the other cars.
    Accord has -34!- almost identical buttons on the dash - you think cellphone users are distracted......Also was about $3K higher delivered here.
    Camry was cheaper looking inside, didn't ride as smoothly, and was noisier. However the dealer will throw in a carwash a week for life.
    Malibu - don't make me laugh, but we checked it out to see what American cars are like. By the way, there is a hold on 6 cylinder engines with no release date.
    Avenger and Sebring - checked out - less performance, less mileage, noisier, cheaper interior, etc.
    Also checked out the Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion, etc.
    Some of them were excellent in some respects but none of them came up with a total package that matched the Sonata.
    My wife surprised me by going for a black car with black leather interior. The only thing I would change on this is the interior. Black is available with only a black or camel interior. I would prefer a gray interior. By the way, the camel interior is dynamite on the deep maroon car.
    We pick up the car tomorrow.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Great choice for features, cost, and warranty! You would enjoy it as I am enjoying my 2007 Sonata Limited V6. Paid $19,600 for it with mats, guards, net. Saved about $8-$10K over a comparably equipped CamCord.

    I keep my cars at least 10 years with rigid PM and any repairs I do myself. Trade-in was a 13 yr Continental which still ran fine with no major problems.
  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Member Posts: 116
    Congrats on the purchase. I've got 40,000 miles on my 06 Sonata without any problems. The only thing the Camcords have on the Sonata is image which affects resale. Everything else swings in the Sonata's favor considering it is about $3 to $5K cheaper with a better warranty.
  • jfftx67jfftx67 Member Posts: 5
    My first post here.......

    I saw three 2009 Sonata GLS models at the local Hyundai dealer today in Waco, Texas. They were listed for just over $20k. All three were unlocked so, I sat in each one. I suppose the new interior is nicer than the 06-08 models. What I didn't like in the 2009 was the cup holders didn't have a cover that flips over like the 08 models. The grille is nicer, as well as the larger headlights. I like the tail lamps on the 2008 more. The 2009 tail lamps appear to be the same size as the 08's.........just that the 08's show more white for the reverse lights than the 2009.

    Oh.......I didn't see a place to unlock the trunk from the outside on the 2009.
  • wcw1wcw1 Member Posts: 44
    Does the 09 have folding side mirrors yet? Just forced over by another car in our subdivision and smacked my right mirror slightly on a mail box. No paint damage but the plastic mirror housing cracked which I don't think would have happened with folding mirrors. Non U.S. models have folding mirrors, so I ordered a pair of factory OEM painted (cherry) folding mirrors for about $50 dollars more than one U.S. OEM mirror. Three bolts on each mirror and one power cord.

    I am looking at replacing an 04 XG350 with either an Azera or Sonata and sure would like folding mirrors if I go with another Sonata.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Thanks for the info on the folding mirrors--that's good to know it's pretty cheap and easy to swap out the fixed mirrors for folding ones. That's one gripe I have with many new cars these days--fixed mirrors. One of the main reasons the Hyundais made in the ROK have them is so it's easier to ship them. Not an issue with the Sonatas made in Alabama. Note that cars that are shipped over here, e.g. the Accent and Elantra, do have folding mirrors.
  • wanna_azzywanna_azzy Member Posts: 41
    I hadn't thought about shipping being the reason. That makes perfect sense. I still wish they were folding, tho. Way to use the ol' bean. ;)
  • sonataloversonatalover Member Posts: 10
    This may be a stupid question but, since I've never attempted to order a part that is not standard on the American vehicles, I'm curious. Was it difficult to get the dealer to order a Korean part for your American-built Sonata?

  • rv65rv65 Member Posts: 1,076
    There are stores online that sell Korean parts. They have some cool Korean market stuff.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Dealers can't/won't do it because of several reasons:
    1. they have no access to Korean part numbers.
    2. they cannot guarantee the part would fit properly
    3. most US parts meet various standards that cannot be guaranteed with Korean parts
    4.shipping costs, customs and customer return problems
    5. dealers don't want to be caught up in any of the above.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Common distribution point for sea shipped and trucked or rail shipments of Hyundai's.
  • merf1merf1 Member Posts: 8
    I compared a 2008 and a 2009 Sonata GLS, both with power drivers seat.
    The 09 seamed much more comfortable to me.
    The seats look the same but I got a tape measure and found that the seat in the 09 was 1 1/2 inches longer from the upright back to the edge of the front.
    This is a much needed improvment in my opinion.
    For a 6 foot man, like myself, the 08 seats just did not have enough thigh support.
    I will be buying an 09 when the rebates kick in.

    P.S.-- The salesman did not know about the improvement to the seats.
    They may be keeping it quiet until all the 08s are sold.
  • wcw1wcw1 Member Posts: 44
    Take a look at koreanautoimports.com. There was a picture go by on how to change the mirrors posted somewhere but I can't seem to find it again.
  • fastbobbyfastbobby Member Posts: 4
    I looked at a 2009 V-6 Limited in New Jersey today. It appears Hyundai did a great job in getting the Sonata very close to if not surpassing the Honda Accord.

    Does anybody know if the mirrors that are used on the Azera with the turn signal indicators will work on the Sonata? Are the Sonatas prewired so this will work ?. I know the OEM mirrors on the Sonata do not fold. Just one more safety item.

    Also, the Bluetooth option. Will a aftermarket Bluetooth device work with the Infinity sound system ?. If not, can you buy and install this item yourself and save a few bucks ?.

    Are the 2009 Sonatas being sold at invoice or $ 500.00 above. Any information will be extremely helpful.

  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I went to a Hyundai dealer to look at the Elantra and noticed they were overflowing with dozens of 2008 Sonatas and had no 2009s.

    No reason to have 2009s on their lots that would only make the 2008s harder to get rid of.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Some dealers advertise their pricing on the Internet, and from that we can see that below-invoice pricing is available on the 2009s at least at some dealers. For example, Fitzmall is offering 2009 Sonatas at several hundred bucks below invoice now. But the really big deals right now are on the 2008s. Fitzmall has many of both years in stock, according to their web site.

    A spot check of some dealers around me yesterday showed they all have at least a few 2009s in stock.
  • serlichserlich Member Posts: 2
    My wife and I just brought home our new 2009 Sonata Limited with I-4 and Khaki color. We love the car. I hope this satisfied feeling lasts for years. The buying experience was excellent. The car lists for a little over $24K and the dealer added $4k of options that should cost about $200. This brought the total list to $28k. But I bought the car for a little over $22k and a very good trade brought the price down to exactly was I expected after searching new car invoice price and trade-in values on the net. The dealer lot was loaded with 2008 models with very aggressive pricing. Apparently mine was the first 2009 Sonata they sold, but I'm still very happy with the price.

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    and the dealer added $4k of options that should cost about $200.

    What kind of options were added on? Were these dealer installed options? Not quite sure what you mean by the above...is there a typo or something? Seems like too good to be true deal on a 2009, am I missing something?
  • jmaxejmaxe Member Posts: 198
    You said it...not surpassing the Honda Accord. Hyundai still has a long way to go in value retention.
  • xj220xj220 Member Posts: 78
    I think he means the typical add ons that dealers use to jack the price way up. For the typical car this can be mudguards, visor, chrome moldings, pinstripes, spoiler, etc...
  • wanna_azzywanna_azzy Member Posts: 41
    I thought the only options available on the Limited was I4/V6 and color. Maybe navigation? Where could they come up with $4000 in options? :confuse:
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    It was not "worth" $4000. They can ask $3000 for chrome rims and $600 for stick-on pin stripe decals if they want.
    There are a lot of dealer installed accessories, paint and fabric sealants etc. that the dealers can price at any dollar amount they wish.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I think the vast majority of us using this forum know what the usual "dealer add-ons" are. I just never have seen them to be anywhere near this amount($4000). When I go to a dealership and see the add-on window stickers for the $600 pinstripes, $400 paint sealant and $250 wheel locks etc., I wait for the salesman to approach and then tell them that I am just looking because I refuse to buy from a dealership that uses this practise. Luckily, in the Chicago area, there are plenty of dealers to choose from.
  • serlichserlich Member Posts: 2
    The $4k of dealer options (though they are not optional) consisted of pin stripes, wind deflector for sun roof and paint protection plan. The $4k was not a misprint. While these items appear on the dealer sticker (not the mfg sticker), they kind of wink at you while trying to justify the additions. As I said, dealing with this particular delear was very pleasant. I suppose you can't blame a dealer for trying to boost profits, but if you go in knowing what a good deal should be, they are very easy to work with.
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