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2009-2010 Hyundai Sonata

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Comments

  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Sounds like those bait and switch ads in the paper all the time. They always say the ones in the ad have already been sold.
    If you look at most car dealer newspaper ads, they usually have some amazing discount special in the paper that you can never get when you go there.
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    When I was on the lot last (a couple of weeks ago), there were only about four '08s, but seven or eight '07s. This is in central Georgia, in case you're curious.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    Must be a small dealer--usually there's a few dozen Sonatas on the lot of the dealer closest to me.
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    Yes, ours is a small dealer. Total new inventory is maybe 60 vehicles, plus about 100 used. It used to be one dealership with Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, Hyundai, and Mazda, but they spun the Hyundai operation off to a separate site. They've got about ten each of Elantras and Accents, a handful of Santa Fes, not many choices at all. The last time I was there, they had nothing but automatics, even in the Accent.

    There's another Hyundai dealer maybe 25 miles down the road, and I think it's even smaller. I wonder if Hyundai will push for consolidation of smaller dealerships like this as part of the quest for greater legitimacy in the market.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    I think this is a photo of the 2009 SE, from the Chicago Auto Show:

    http://autoshow.autos.msn.com/autoshow/chicago2008/photogallerypopup.aspx?cp-doc- umentid=6194664&photo-number=1

    Note the 5-spoke wheels, fog lamps, and body-color trim on the bumpers and sides. Those are what make me think it's the SE--mainly the alloys, which are different from the alloys on the 2009 Limited--thank goodness!! Also, does the grille look a little different from that on the Limited? At any rate, I much prefer the looks of this car to the Limited.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    Thanks for the pix, backy.

    Odd, but to me it looks like photo #2 has "chrome" bumper/side moldings--the other pix don't.

    Must be they had more than one trim level there in the same color.

    Edit: just noticed the wheels are different also, so it is not the "same car."
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    I am considering the 2009 Sonata, but I looked up KBB trade-in value of 2 an 3 year old Sonatas and compared them to a comparably equipped 2 and 3 year old Honda Accord with same mileage and condition and the resale value of the Hyundais are still so much lower even though Hyundai quality and reliability is now better than most cars.
    The 80-90's reputation is not going away any time soon and you will pay for this at trade-in time,

    The only way you will come out ahead buying the Hyundai is if you can buy the new Hyundai for at least the same amount of a discount new as you will have to give up at resale time.

    For instance, suppose the realistic market value of your used Hyundai trade-in is $5000 less than a similar Honda trade-in, then you will not have saved any money unless you paid more than $5000 less for the new Hyundai than the best deal you could have got on the Honda when the Honda was new.
    If it is even close, then you might as well get the one you like the best.

    Look up dealer trade in value of a 3 year old and a 5 year old Sonata with 36,000 miles and 60,000 miles and "good" condition and compare it to the closest equivalent Honda Accord model with the same mileage and condition and see if you think you could buy a new Sonata for enough of a discount compared to a new (and also discounted) Accord to come out ahead with the Sonata.

    The lower MSRP plus rebates on the Hyundai still may not be enough to offset the much lower resale value that could wipe away all your original purchase savings plus more,
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    Yes, for now at least the financials work out much better if you get the Sonata at a big discount, because we don't know yet what the resale value of the 2009 model will be. I expect it will be higher than what we've seen in the past, both because of improved quality/capability and also because of higher sale prices when new (e.g. there were no $27-28k MSRP Sonatas out there until now). So if you plan on trading the Sonata in 2-3 years, the big discount up front is very important, compared to buying something like an Accord.

    Keep in mind that 5-year trade-in values for the Sonata are based on the 2003 Sonata, which was not nearly as good a car (or pricey of a car) as the current Sonata.

    FWIW, the private-party sales are not as bad as trade-in values. Maybe more people out there see that Hyundai makes a good car now and has for some time. For example, when I sold my '01 Elantra after five years, I got almost exactly 50% of its original purchase price. I didn't get a big reduction off MSRP on the car because I bought one of the first all-new '01 Elantras to come to the U.S, back in 2000, and there was only $500 manufacturer-to-dealer cash on it, and no consumer rebates. Even so, I think I came out very well, and in absolute dollars I think I fared better than I would have had I bought my 2nd choice, a '01 Civic EX. The dollar depreciation on the Elantra after 5 years was about $5900.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Even when you compare a 2006 Sonata GLS (current body) to a 2006 Accord LX sedan (old body style), the trade-in difference is massive.

    2006 Accord LX automatic with 30,000 miles: http://tinyurl.com/2a3bv2
    2006 Sonata GL automatic with 30,000 miles: http://tinyurl.com/2bo589

    Huge difference. Could you have purchased a 2006 Sonata new for enough of a price difference to make up for the current difference in trade-in value?

    You could get more selling to a private party, but you would also get more for the Honda doing the same thing.

    If quality and reliability are good and resale value is poor, then maybe the best deal will be buying a low mileage used 2009 Sonata in 2 years.

    If Hyundai comes out with an aggressive lease deal with low rates and an artificially high residual, then maybe I will still get the Sonata via the lease program and not worry about resale value.
  • The only price i would pay for sonata w/ auto is $15K OTL. I will buy either Camry or Accord if i have to pay more than $15K OTL~

    I hate to say that, but this won't change at least for this few years for Hyundai car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    Could you have purchased a 2006 Sonata new for enough of a price difference to make up for the current difference in trade-in value?

    Yes. For the 2006 Sonatas, there were large rebates starting only a few months after launch. The price difference was about $5000 compared to an Accord (I've been traking prices of the Sonata and Hyundais in general for many years). The KBB numbers show about a $4500-5100 difference. So why should that be surprising? Also, consider you would have had the use of the extra $5000 from purchase time until now. So financially, you would have come out ahead with the Sonata.

    Leasing could be good if you plan to only keep the car for 2-3 years, and HMA has offered some attractive leases in the past, e.g. less than $200/month with 0 down on the 2006+ GLS with AT. But if you plan on keeping the car for many years, which I plan to do, then I think buying is a better option (plus then you can use up all of the 10-year warranty).

    Money doesn't magically appear out of thin air. If a car costs about $5000 less when new than another car of equal utility, then it's unrealistic to expact that two years later, the car that cost less will be worth more than the more expensive car--or more precisely, that the difference in resale value will have decreased much below $5000. But as the OTD prices of Sonatas go up, and discounts and rebates go down, and sales to fleets are reduced (already done), resale values of the Sonata will go up. People who complain about Sonata prices going up (and sometimes in the same post about resale values!) should keep that in mind.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    Have you priced comparably-equipped Accords and Camrys? How much over $15k were those prices?
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    A 2008 GLS automatic at invoice minus $2000 rebate is about $16,700, so $15K isn't likely, Maybe $15,000 on a leftover 2007.

    A 2008 Accord LX automatic invoice is about $19800. With some effort, you can find a new 2008 Accord LX selling for $0 over invoice, that's only $3100 difference.
    Even if you had to pay $1000 over invoice for the Accord today, $4100 would be easy to make up in resale value and you would still end up with lower overall cost on the 2008 Accord than on a Sonata that cost $4100 less when it was new.
    They 2009s Sonatas should be more desirable used because of new powertrains with better power and fuel economy plus the new, much nicer interior, but it remains to be seen if that will add more than just a little extra resale value.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    Maybe you didn't see some posts a day or so ago, which noted that dealers like Fitzmall and Towne Hyundai offer everyday under-invoice prices on 2008 Sonatas. In Towne's case, it's $2000 under invoice, before rebate. Fitzmall doesn't have a similar flat rate under invoice, but if you look at their everyday Internet pricing, you'll see average discounts of about $5000, including the current $2000 rebate (or you can take 0 percent financing for 5 years in lieu of the $2000 rebate). So if you pay $1000 over invoice on an Accord today, you'll be paying over $5000 more than for a comparably-equipped 2008 Sonata. Even at invoice for the Accord, the price difference will be close to $5000. Add interest (earned or avoided) on that $5k over a few years' time, and financially the picture looks pretty good for the Sonata.

    Edit: Here's a recent (today!) example from the Sonata Prices Paid discussion:

    I liked the new 08 Accord V6, and even though I got offers 300 below invoice it was still 26K for a V6 EX-L w/ no nav. Also considered Toyota RAV4, but Limited trim w/ leather pushed it to 28K (and that's at invoice price not MSRP). Liked the Aura too, but still around 25K (not much haggling with Saturn).

    I've always liked Sonatas, so I came back to checking out Hyundai again. Fitzmall had 08 Limited V6 w/ sunroof and mats and cargo net for $20,661.00 plus TTL. That's $5,219.00 off the MSRP of $25,880. I was sold. We intend to keep this car a long time. But even with the depriciation, what can you get for a little over $20K these days loaded in the midsize segment? I considered this a lot of car for the the money I paid for it.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Well, if you will be able to buy the 2009s for $5000-$6000 less than an equivalent Accord, then it will be worth it even after the loss in resale value as long as you like the Hyundai as much or more than the Accord.
    You have to buy the Hyundai at a massive discount for it to be even anywhere near the total cost of ownership of an Accord.
    I suppose Hyundai could just drop the MSRP $5000 and say: "All cars sold at MSRP, no discounting." They could just add 0% financing at year end to move out the old models when the next model years come in. They could then also slowly increase the MSRP each year as the brand reputation improved. The percentage of MSRP retained at resale would skyrocket,
    However, I think people prefer getting discounts, even if the final price is no less, so that probably wouldn't work.
  • As a matter of fact, many dealers have been selling Sonata GL's ('06) and GLS´s ('07 / '08) for $14,500 to $15,000 + TTL. I walked onto the local Hyundai lot in May 2007, just to get an up-close look at the '07 Elantras and Sonatas. One of the salesmen there told me that the factory-to-dealer incentives were so huge on the Sonatas that they were able to sell '07 automatic GLS's for about $14,500 + TTL. Even better deals could be had in December '07 through February '08.

    On the other hand, a "good deal" on a new Accord is usually invoice, which is about $2,000 below MSRP in the Accord's case. Honda dealers know how popular their cars are, and they are not willing to go below invoice in many cases, which was about $19,600 on the '06 and '07 Accord LX automatic.

    If one were to find a rare and exceptional deal on an Accord, they would have gotten $500 to $1,000 below invoice. The same "rare and exceptional" deal on a Sonata GL/GLS automatic would be as low as around $13,800 + TTL.

    To answer your question: Yes, new Sonatas are regularly being sold for $5,000 less than comparable new Accords. Also keep in mind, most Hyundai owners keep their cars for 5 to 10 years. You will not see many cases where people are selling or trading-in a Hyundai with only 30,000 miles. Yes, most Sonata owners are indeed saving money.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    Same here.

    I got my new 2007 Sonata Limited (V6 standard) last June for $19,600. My trade-in was 13 yrs old. I keep my cars for at least 10 years at which time trade-in values are insignificant/irrelevant - age is age for cars.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    Hmmm, that's a toughie.. buy a 3-year-old Camry with 46k miles and a 30-day warranty, or buy a brand-new 2008 Sonata GLS with more equipment (e.g. ESC and XM radio) and full factory warranty for about the same price. I know which one I'd go with. :)
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    I looked up a 1998 Accord LX vs a 1998 Sonata GL with both being in good condition and having 120K miles.
    The Accord was worth $3300 trade-in and the Sonata was only worth 1/3 of the Accord's value at only $1100.
    So, even after 10 years and 120,000 miles, there is a major resale value difference.
    The Accord still has decent value at that age and mileage because people expect an Accord to go between 200K and 300K miles and they expect the Hyundai to be disposable at 100K miles.
    The Accords get pretty old before their trade-in value drops below $2000.
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