2009 Subaru Forester

ateixeira

The Devil's in the details, and I like how the cruise control works on our Limited.

You turn it on and a "CRUISE" light turns on in the dash.

You set your speed, hit the coast button, and you get a 2nd light, "CRUISE SET".

This is how every car should be period. All buttons in plain view, lit and right on the steering wheel, and lights for both modes to make it clear as day what mode you're in.

We just passed 1000 miles so this was the first time I actually got to use it.

It also held a constant speed well.

Kudos.

sgloon

I love the cruise control as well! It is so natural and innate to use it. And as you say, juice, so handy on the steering wheel. Gotta love that! :shades:

It does has some problems on the small steeper hills (even on the highway, ie the flatlands around here, not the mountains) with keeping the speed up. It dropped by up to 5mph. But, that may be the gearing, not the cruise? But general flat hiway driving is a piece of cake for it.

I did try a Nissan Sentra that I was borrowing on the same roads, and it didn't have any problem with the small hills. Both were manual transmissions.

ateixeira

Yeah, a manual in cruise mode in 5th gear can't shift down to 4th.

Ours is auto, so it could go from 4 -> 3, though we were driving on flat roads so it didn't need to.

I had a 1991 Ford Escort GT 5 speed that was generally quick, but it was quite humbling the one time it actually had to turn off the cruise control because it could not maintain speeds climing the Appalachians. It just cut off! :surprise:

sgloon

Juice,

I didn't need to shift down to maintain speed...it went from 65mph (cruise setting) to 60mph on a small but generally steeper hill...so not even close to shifting down...which would be about 45mph or so...

I think it had more to do with the cruise not being able to anticipate the hill, and the lack of power on the hills. (I do not have the PZEV or the XT) It just takes a while to catch up...and by then it is back on a downhill...

p0926

Yeah, a manual in cruise mode in 5th gear can't shift down to 4th.

Yeah but a manual XT doesn't need to shift down to maintain speed, even on the biggest hills :P

kurtamaxxxguy

'09 XT-L's cruise control's worked fine for me.
The auto-trans adjusts its torque converter ratios or shifts as needed - speed varies around 5 mph or so.
Definitely one of the better Cruise controls around.

pharmd718

Anyone know if there is a difference in performance? I know that the 170hp version does 0-60 in around 10 seconds. Wonder if the PZEV has any documented performance numbers.

Is the torque on the PZEV model the same as the 170hp model?

Thanks

ateixeira

You got me. My mouth was open.

ateixeira

They say you can't "feel" 5 hp. I doubt there is a noticeable difference.

The power to weight ratio is about 3% better, so any improvement will be only incremental, maybe a couple of 10ths quicker to 60mph.

I can say that the PZEV model is very responsive to the throttle, no lag whatsoever. In fact it's much, much better than our 2002 Legacy, which has 165hp. So I can definitely feel the difference between those.

samirataustin

I have a 2009 non-turbo Forester with manual transmission. Looking to improve gas mileage some. Thinking of putting in Red line synthetic 75W90 in the transmission and the rear differential.

Also looking at switching to 0W30 synthetic motor oil after the engine break in period and moving to a 10,000 miles/ 12 months oil change interval. I would consider my situation to be non- severe driving conditions (which has the 7500 miles/ 6 month recommended regular oil change interval).

Anybody done this with their Forester? What kind of mileage improvement can I expect?

Thanks!

samsid

The Nokian website did not list the size I needed for my Toyota RAV4 but I was able to order the correct size for the WR G2 from my local tire store -- so be sure to call your local shop to see if they can order the size you need.

kurtamaxxxguy

thanks for info. Another tire dealer backs this up by telling me that the Nokian WRG2 will be available in a size that will fit the '09 Foresters this year.

bikerguy3

I've never used synthetic trans/diff lubricants...but did just last week for the
first time switch to mobil1 synthetic for my engine oil change (5K miles)
on my 09 non-turbo Forester. I then headed out for a road trip up to
Seattle.

I don't know if it is my imagination or for real - but with the synthetic oil and
running premium fuel, I swear I can feel signicantly better power and throttle
response. And my fuel economy definitely went up 1-2 mpg, to 29.4 for
the trip so far (65 mph average, a few traffic slowdown "crawls").

I also like the idea I can now extend the oil change intervals a bit.

I finally took some pics of the vehicle and tried uploading to this forum,
but couldn't get it to work. Can anyone provide details on how to upload
.jpg pictures?

ateixeira

Synthetic: go for it. I noticed slightly smoother shifting when I swapped to synthetic gear oil on my 1998 Forester, though it had no impact on my fuel efficiency.

I would stick with 7500 miles as the interval, though, at least while you're under warranty, for that specific reason - you have to comply with Subaru's intervals to remain under warranty.

pharmd718

bikerguy - So can I just tell the subi people to use Mobil 1 synth. when I bring it in for a scheduled oil change? And why did you use premium fuel in the non-turbo?

Really glad to hear there was noticeable performance improvement

pharmd718

Just read a recent review of an XT-Limited and the owner said that the leather seats were very hard and uncomfortable. He did not notice it during the test drive because it was a short drive. He stated that the comfort level was so bad that he attempted to return the car. The dealer agreed to take it back minus $7000 so he is re-doing the seats instead.

I placed an order for the X-limited and did not get a chance to test drive the car with the leather interior. I wanted to know if others with the leather have experienced the same thing.

thanks

pgb0517

I'd say the leather seats, and ours has the power driver's seat, are moderately comfortable. They are more comfortable than the '08s we tested. But that is a very subjective thing. They are not as comfy as the cloth power driver's seat in my 2003 Chrysler Town & Country -- not as cushy, and they seem to be a bit shorter in the thigh (length from back to front) so my leg doesn't feel as well-supported under the knee. However, the lumbar support is good, and I am getting used to the super-tilted-forward head restraints. By adjusting the tilt and other aspects of the seat just so, I am reasonably comfortable on long trips.

I am thinking of trying aftermarket seat cushions. There is quite a variety out there online. Unfortunately, I don't find good selections in stores, so I can't test them.

If that doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement, it isn't. Subaru could do better. But we are very satisfied with the car overall. My wife, who is shorter, finds it very comfortable. I am only 5'8" myself.

If it's not too late, I recommend you take about a half-hour test drive before committing to your '09.

ateixeira

I love our leather seats - it's heated, and perforated so it breathes well for long-distance drives.

Subaru does sort of follow the Volvo model - i.e. firmer seats that offer support for the long haul, as opposed to softly padded couch-like seats, which is what I have in my mininvan.

You may prefer the softer seats for the first 20 minutes, but after a while, you'll want better side support, and at that point the Forester's seat win easily.

Try it - we are all shaped differently. What I like, you may not like, and vice-versa.

kurtamaxxxguy

I've driven the XT-L on 300 mile trips and found its leather seats almost as good as the French-sourced seats in my former Malibu Maxx (which for me so far remains the king of Long trip comfort thanks to firm but not hard seating).
The XT-L power lumbar support tends to "rock" from one side to another, so I've had to extend and retract it on occasion to get the balance right.
XT-L Gripes: here isn't much room for the right foot, and leather does not breath all that well on hot days (the perforation helps).
By comparison, I found the Outback XT seats became uncomfortable after only 20 minutes or so (one reason I went for Forester).

There are memory foam cushions out there that might help a particular driver with any car seat.

orc

Bikerguy3...

First you need to have the pics stored in an online album like www.photobucket.com or a similar place that allows linking online. Once you have that, copy the URL like http//www.mypicsonline.com/bikerguyzpics/09forester.jpg (fake URL) Make sure the URL ends with jpg and erase anything that comes after that if it shows. If your pic is only on your computer and not online it won't work.

Now put the curser where you want the pic to show and click the Img icon ONCE below the reply box you are typing in. Paste the URL with NO spaces and then click the Img icon ONCE again. Click preview and check the results.You can also check format help shown below the emotorcons. Run your mouse over the icons and the resultant looks of the proper formatting will show in the format help box to give you an example of the end product.

ateixeira

That's so beautiful...it doesn't even look real! Amazing... :shades:

orc

I took that pic last month between Smithers and Terrace in British Columbia.My wife took the first pic three years ago at Mt Robson Provincial Park in British Columbia while on one of our long motorcycle trips we like to take when we can get away. When the weather is nice BC is an amazingly beautiful place to travel around. Pics are heavily compressed for fast downloading and quality is lowered. Second pic is a few miles from our home in SE Alaska just after we took delivery of the Forester. That's my wife and our visiting grandson. Third pic was taken last month in Mt. Rainer National Park in Washington.

tentoes49

Hi all,
I just took delivery of a new 09 Forrester Premium X AT with all weather package. I've had it about three weeks and love it. It's my first Subaru, and my first all wheel drive vehicle. For the first three tanks of gas I am getting 23.7 mpg in town. I have not had the opportunity to take a trip on the hiway yet, but will in a couple of weeks. It will be driven mostly by my wife, who is gradually getting used to it. I bought it based on Subaru's reputation for durability, and the rave report by Consumers Reports, (yea, we are both in our upper 50's) We only buy a new vehicle every 6-7 years, and she only drives about 10-12k miles per year. We live in Omaha NE, and there is a fair amount of hills in town. I can't wait for the snow.
What is surprising to me is how technical the owners manual is, and how many "adjustments" can be made to the vehicle. I spent three evenings reading the manual.
I'll try and keep everyone posted about our experience in ownership.

Best Wishes
JC

bikerguy3

pharmd718:

I do all my own oil change servicing (usually every 3-5K miles), but my guess
is that you can dictate to the subi service dept to use the mobil1 synthetic.
The downside might be cost - I purchased my 5 qts of Mobil1 on sale
for 3.99/qt (after rebate). I've heard of dealers charging as much as $60
for a synthetic oil change. (FYI - when I bring in my Mercedes SLK for service
it requires synthetic oil, and it "only" costs me $100 for oil change...lol).

I started using premium fuel in my non-turbo Forester mostly as a result of
reading some comments in this forum, and doing the math...I truly get a good
2 mpg more with premium versus regular fuel, which is about 8%. But premium
only costs about 20 cents more per gallon, which is about 5%. So, I get an
increase in fuel economy of 8%, for an increase in cost of 5%. Plus - I get
the added benefit of more power, and I suspect better longevity of the engine
(due to premium fuel additives, etc).

The 2mpg increase in fuel economy with premium fuel might be somewhat
attributed to having a manual xmission, as with the higher octane performance
(better low end torque) I can shift at lower rpms w/o lugging, and even skip
gears at times, depending upon upcoming terrain (ie shift from 2nd to 4th,
or 3rd to 5th).

kurtamaxxxguy

Interesting about premium useage; Premium 's main difference from Regular is being slower to burn and less prone to detonate. For some brands of Gas (but not Tier 1 fuels, supposedly), Premium does have more wear additives than Regular.

Subaru uses knock detection to retard timing should it get a bad or incorrect batch of fuel for a given engine type - that's to prevent overheating and detonation damage. Turbos on Regular can have timing retarded so much that the "check engine" light comes on.

Wrt Oil Changes, Subaru is adamant the schedules be followed (their response to my query was in CAPS), and doesn't recomend synthetic oil. However, Dealers I've visited say around 6 - 8K is best to start using synthetic as engines are well broken in by then and the seals have not taken too much of a set.
BTW, Subaru recomends a complete oil and filter change before _and_ after any "track" event.

orc

I called a Jiffy Lube in Washington just to see what they charge for syn oil change and I was quoted $75. Except on rare occasions I change my own oil & filter on my vehicles but some people don't want to mess with it, have a medical problem and can't lay flat on the ground to get under the car on the ground or are very busy and don't have a convenient place to do the job. they are stuck with the whims of the paid changer. Dealers make good money on a regular oil change because they get their regular oil so cheap. Syns cost dealers more but they charge a lot more like full retail non discounted price. Say you want the $29 oil change but with syn oil. They say fine but it's $8 per quart more for syn. They charge you the $29 plus and extra $45 for the oil. It's frustrating but that's usually just the way it is.

I've been told a lot of silly stuff by dealers like you cannot use anything but the factory oil filter (even though it's not actually made by the factory) or it will void the warranty. I've been told Syn oils can cause leaks or you need to run regular oil for a long time first. First of Federal law prohibits them voiding the warranty under the Magnuson Moss act. Everyone should read that. Any dealer that tells you this stuff are under a huge misconception them self or they are flat out lying. Some cars today come from the factory with syn and syn blend already in the crankcase. Syn oils cannot hurt the engine and changing it to a syn at any mileage will not harm anything. What does damage an engine is dirty regular oil or low oil levels.

I've used lots brands of syn but started with Mobil 1 about 15 years ago. There are a lot of oil comparisons one can look up online. Amsoil works very well for me and Redline is shown to be very good but I've never used Redline. They're definitely more expensive syns. One benefit for a syn oil can be a smoother slightly lower rpm idle. Syns allow higher operating temps and lower operating temps than regular oil. Syn oils create almost no sludge and don't get dirty like regular oils do. Be careful about a few oils like Rotella T as it has additives like zinc and phosphorus for diesel engines which will eventually ruin your catalytic converter in your regular gas engine. Tiny amounts of the oil will make its way into the exhaust and into the converter.

Not all syns are equal but all syns are better than regular oil. If you want the best syn after you do a research of brand comparison and are willing to pay for it you can either have the dealer or oil change place to get it for you or bring it to them yourself. A good honest place will allow you to bring your own oil and deduct the oil cost but there's good chance they'll argue with you over over the price. It's a crap shoot dealing with these guys. If you go with a syn blend beware of them charging you a high syn price price for a syn blend. For example you can sometimes get Motorcraft syn blend at a Walmart for as little as $11 USD per gallon jug.

Wow. :surprise: I've been long winded haven't I? Anyway this stuff is just my experience and others might have different experiences.

samiam_68

You can buy your own synthetic oil, bring it to the dealer, and instruct them to use it in the oil change. That's what I usually do. Never had an issue.

kurtamaxxxguy

Zinc and phosphorus are in many engine oil additives. They too can poison the cat converter. Only one I know of that doesn't is Camguard ASL (it was designed to stop oxidation and oil breakdown at high temperatures).

orc

Good point Kurt. Oils made for diesel engines have a lot more zinc and phosphorus. Best to especially stay away from those if you have a gas engine and a regular CC. The problem is the bottle doesn't warn the consumer. New diesel engines are starting to come with CC's and diesel oils will start having less Zinc in them according to the manufacturers.

orc

***You can buy your own synthetic oil, bring it to the dealer, and instruct them to use it in the oil change. That's what I usually do. Never had an issue.***

That's good. I've run into some problems over the years with dealers and various vehicles. BTW I've noticed the owners manual for my 09 Forester gas engine says it takes 4.2 quarts but when I change it, it takes just a bit less than 5 full quarts. I got my first oil change free and checked the level afterward and it was low.My next two oil changes I did myself required like 4.8 quarts. Just an observation. Maybe 4.2 is without a filter change. Beats me.

bikerguy3

pharmd718

Looks beautiful. congrats

board_jay

I have a question about towing. I am looking at a boat and trailer combo that will be 2500lbs. Adding fuel and gear will add another 300lbs max so the total load would be around 2800lbs. The Subaru is rated for 2400lbs in the manual. Does anyone know how rigid that # is? The trailer I have chosen will have a single axle and WILL have brakes on it. (I could shave 100lbs of the total weight if I went with a trailer with no brakes). It is my feeling that I should be o.k. since the trailer has brakes and is only about 15% over the 2400lbs recommended and the fact that 99% of the time I will only be trailering the boat less than 10mi RT. I can't find anything on what the GCVWR should be, anyone know what that is? I know that 200lbs on the tongue is the max, but can't figure out how to calculate that. Would appreciate any input. Thanks!

orc

Nice. The gold really stands out. I can't make the silly advertising to go away on the right of the screen. Anybody know how to do that?. I resized and compressed your pics. 600 to 650 pixel width is about the max on my 17" screen before the advertising on the right covers stuff up.

redherring1

I read that review also, and I think that guy must be 80 years old and/or weigh about 80 pounds. If anything, I think the seats are a little on the soft side--definitely softer than in my Acura or in my old CRV. I find them to be adequately supportive and comfortable even for long stretches, and I've had back trouble for many years.

p0926

Bob's our resident towing expert so I'm sure he'll weigh-in on the subject. However, it's generally accepted that due to legal considerations, Subaru is very conservative when assigning tow ratings. You definitely want trailer brakes since the biggest hazard is the fact that the combined weight of the boat & trailer approaches the weight of your Forester (thereby making it harder to control). As long as you're aware that the Forester's handling will be compromised and drive accordingly, I think that you'll be okay towing 2800lbs for a 10-mile round-trip.

-Frank

kurtamaxxxguy

While getting my Forester's singing steering looked at, the dealer loaned me an '08 Outback 2.5i. This offered another chance to compare Outback .vs. Forester (I'm 5' 7" by the way):

Outback:
has more footroom for driver's right foot
Nicer dash and interior trim (ex: sunglass holder is fully padded),
Less engine and road noise
junky sounding doors when closing
more intimate interior (had to duck head when getting in)
skimpy rear seat room (no thigh support, no place for feet)
leans more in turns
has more driveline lash
kinda harsh on small bumps (lots of thumps)
10" longer
bigger turning radius

Though Outback has its merits, I've no regrets about getting the Forester.

wobbler800

I know they will be avalible, I check and Tiresbyweb has them in stock. It sounds like the Nokian WR G2 is being released in waves.

link title

Sounds like an all around awesome tire!

volkov

The GCVWR is almost always tow rating+curb weight. Towing ratings are really guidelines. The vehicle won't become unsafe or break as soon as they are exceeded. The fact that they usually work out to nice even numbers in 500# increments supports this. For short distances on good roads and assuming no major climbing you should be fine. But if you also have 3 large buddies riding with you, you are supposed to subtract their weight from the tow rating as they are considered payload.
The easiest way to measure tongue weight is to measure the height of the hitch when the two are connected, then disconnect with your trailer jack on the good old bathroom scale. Lower the trailer to the pulling height and voila. If you had a side mounted jack which is farther back and want to be really pedantic, you can even measure the jack position from the wheels and the ball receiver from the wheels to adjust that number. Tongue weight is something you should be more careful about.
Spending 100# for brakes is a no-brainer. I'd rather be pulling 200# over tow capacity with brakes than 100# below without them. As long as you stay within payload limits, try keeping gear in the trunk of the Forester as opposed to on the trailer. Heavier the tow vehicle, more stable the tow will be.

kurtamaxxxguy

After quite a summer heatwave we got decent rainfall in Portland OR yesterday.
What was surprising was while a number of 2-wheel drive vehicles were squealling their tires on the wet roads, the '09 XT-L just went where it was pointed, even when accelerated hard (the latter in safe locations). Not bad given the Geolanders are not the ultimate rain tire.

BTW, does anyone know if Yokohama reforumlated the Geolanders for the '09 Foresters?

'09 Foresters are showing up more around here - have seen two X series during the last week. AUTO NEWS reports they are selling very well. Right now Outbacks are far more popular in our area (I see at least 2 - 5 of them every day). Perhaps the Forester's big improvements will change that.

kurtamaxxxguy

Discovered today the singing steering columm is not singing at all.
The singing, or chittering, is comming from the HVAC system.
And what's odd is the chittering doesn't change pitch with the fan speed. :surprise:

how it happens (parking lot is good for this):

Make sure HVAC fan is on for at least 10 minutes.
turn car hard to left or (less effective) right with the HVAC on (any fan speed, AC does not need to be on), then go straight.
chittering may be heard as car turns, will stop when car is going straight.
Open the glove box and turn again
The chittering gets louder as you turn
Turn the HVAC off and make the same turns
no chittering is heard.

That's a wierd one. :confuse:

pharmd718

Kurt - wow! good work. I'm impressed. Now the ball is in the dealers court.

On another note im still without my forester even though the order was placed early July

I emailed the dealer and he said "we are expecting it momentarily". Can he be more vague?! :confuse:

kurtamaxxxguy

well one dealer failed to find ithe noise,
but I did not know then about the HVAC needing to be on in order to hear it.
so next time I can give them better instructions.

Also, it is temperature related (if car is very hot or cold there is no sound).

Good luck with your order; "expecting it momentarily" is rather vague.

saedave

The sound transmission might rely on the opening of a flapper in a heating duct.

A slightly slipping accessory belt drive could make an intermittent noise dependent on load. What drives the power steering pump on the Forester? The power steering pump pressure control valve can chatter: In these days of minimizing engine accessory load for max mpg a choice of economy over silence could have been made.

bpraxis

Hello everyone and I hope that you are having a nice day.

I have decided to purchase the new Forrester and my hangup is on the transmission choice.

I have driven both transmissions and the five speed seems more fun to me with the advantage of better gas milage according to Consumer Reports.

My concern is with resale value of the automatic vs. the manual.

Please let me know your opinion?

Is the four wheel drive system on the manual superior to the automatic?

orc

Having an automatic usually increases the book value by a small amount. As for stick verses auto you'll get all sorts of pro and con opinions for both. By superior do mean for off road use, pavement use, snow, slick roads, performance? A stick should give you a little better 0 to 60 performance and depending on where you drive and how you drive a stick may or may not be better. If you drive lots of stop and go city traffic and get stuck in rush hour crawls an automatic is far superior IMO and there's no clutch to wear out. For rough weather conditions either tranny should be fine. For sporty driving a stick is fun. As for gas mileage with a stick a lot depends on how you drive and shift but most sticks will probably get a little better mileage. If a stick fun for you and that's what you really want forget all the superior this and that stuff. Make sure you test drive both tranny's before signing the papers just to make sure.

volkov

Remember though that EPA has both at a dead heat, and mileage difference these days with the electronic autos is usually negligable if at all. Stick often gets better mileage at highway only. Counter to CR, in Canadian testing, the auto had better FE by a fraction than the stick at city driving. Bottom line, no need to buy either for improved fuel economy because they are too close to reliably call.
The 5 sp will have lower resale but also costs less upfront so you' d still be ahead. I've been driving stick for 25 years, but if I do get the new Forester it will be auto this time, in large part to make it more available to use by our nanny for example.

p0926

Is the four wheel drive system on the manual superior to the automatic?

Tough call. They're different and each has its strengths and weaknesses. Bottom line is they're both excellent systems.

-Frank

sgloon

Bpraxis: IMHO the manual transmission is the way to go.

As you mentioned, we get better gas mileage...not just individually, but also based on the consumer reports test drive. I've been getting much better than consumer reports noted on my MT. I bet the gas savings alone will more than pay for any speculative difference in price at resale for AT vs MT.

I think it is way more fun to drive a manual, where ever. I don't see the problem with MT city driving. But then, you might take into account that I have only bought MT's. I've used the automatics when traveling, as rental cars, or when driving friends cars. I've never had a problem with an MT in any city, no matter how big, no matter the traffic.

You start out paying $1000 less for MT, and I don't think you will see that great a difference in resale over time...but only time will tell. The main thing I worry about with the resale value having bought my forester this year...the technology will change enough so people won't want a gas only vehicle by the time I go to sell mine...but that is pure speculation on my part and has nothing to do with AT vs MT.

I also think, as gas prices rise enough, and people see that MT's get an average of 2mpg better than AT's over all, more and more people will want the MT. I don't think people realize the difference. In fact more than one salesman told me that the AT's all get better mpg than MT's now because of design changes/technology. They were wrong.

Good luck! You'll make the right decision for you!

robm2

Simple solution: buy a Forester XT, then you don't have to worry about that choice.