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get the car on a lift (either dealer or independent) and take a good, hard look underneath. Make sure no dirt's on inside of wheels (it can hide in the inner recesses of the spokes !), that no half shaft or drive shaft is bent, and the suspension components appear to be in proper places.
Once all that's done and in order and car still shakes, then might be:
1. damaged / inoperative wheel sensor throwing VDC / VTC off and making car lurch unpredictably (could be sensor itself or its connection point).
2. misfiring engine (discussed by others here).
3. severely unbalanced wheel due to loss of tire pressure sensor, balancing weights, etc.
The rear camera for the same nav system is available as a dealer-installed option in the UK: Check this out from Subaru UK
Just another example of the US getting shortchanged.
Elliot
Knowing several people at SOA and how FHI and SOA interact. The problem is that for every option SOA wants to offer on a car, FHI charges them a lot of $$$ on an ala-carte basis. This means that SOA has to very carefully calculate what it wants to offer as options on the USDM cars so that they can keep them competatively priced. Unfortunately this isn't a great strategy from FHI toward SOA, but they are the facts.
-mike
where did you pick yours up?
I am in the market for a Forester Limited
it sounds like we're both in the NYC/Hudson Valley area, and i am curious as to your buying experience, who you used, what you paid, etc.
thanks in advance
- chuck
1. Nokians are about the same w.r.t. noise
2. Nokians handle about the same, maybe a little bit "rougher"
3. Nokians are 101V rated vs. Yokos 95H ratingso they can handle a heavier load at higher speed.
4. Nokians stick like glue in the rain. I was able to get the VDC to come on a few times with the Yokos, but can't make it happen with the Nokians, even tried in a major Thunderstorm.
5. Perhaps a -.5mpg penalty with the Nokians. Hard to tell. On 3 tanks of fuel (2 with Yoko, 1 with Nokinan) the my Forester seems to get pen-and-paper calculated 25mpg. FYI, the displayed MPG is about 6.5% better than reality/calculated for those who are wondering.
Anyone interested in the "old" Yokos? 225/55/17 95H are the Yokohama size from an 09 Forester Premium. I am in the Northeast.
http://mycarworxcom.powweb.com/store/Forester_09_TapeWinVentVisor.html
It's been a pain not being able to keep the window down a little during the rain to let some air in without getting wet... it rains a lot in the northeast
i got my '09 Foz at BayRidge Subaru. It's one of those weird places that sells subuarus and suzuki's. i have to say it wasn't exactly a stellar experience, (what a surprise) but i was under a time crunch and needed to pull the trigger. it was my first time buying and in retrospect i prob could have avoided some of the shenanigans they put me through, but i wound up just a bit over 30K. i don't have the turbo but got leather and ton of other premiums. i actually had a nicer test drive experience at a subie dealer in NJ, but we didn't own a car before and going back and forth to Jersey just wasn't an option for the final purchase.(we live in cobble hill area of brooklyn) The bay ridge guys actually charged me for an extra item and NEVER INSTALLED IT. so they aren't really that buttoned up. I'll be happy to go into more detail if you are interested, but overall (if you seen any of my other posts) i'm LOVING my FOZ. pls let me know if i can help you avoid any dealer headaches.
tim in brooklyn
im in brooklyn also. went to the bay ridge place as well. I printed a copy of a quote that I got for the X-limited and asked them if they can match the price. The dealer took the copy to his boss who mumbled something about volume sales. when the dealer returned he said that he can't even come close to that price. I would have given them $300 over that price if they would have accepted it, but unfortunately they wanted almost 2k more.
They said that they would gladly service my car whenever Id need to. I ordered my x-limited from bkcars.com ...about an hour from where I live. The car should be in next month. I threw in a hitch,subwoofer,all weather floor mats, rear bumper protector. the out the door price is around 28.3 k
really glad to hear that your happy with the car. what kind of mpg are you getting around bklyn?
Hopefully there'll be some feedback on the Nokian G2 series by then.
We walked in this year, we see her there screeching a negotiation with someone - so we make a bee-line for the only other person there. we really had a good initial experience with him. but i am not as keen on the place as i once was. he won't budge from the price (not that that is a bad thing, he is free to negotiate as he sees fit), but when i told him i had a better price at a dealer in CT he told me i would lose the "special treatment" i would get fore service (essentially, i would get in the back of the line over those that bought there). he also said i would not be covered under NYState Lemon Laws, and i don;t think that;s the case.
Overall, i think he's a nice guy - but a little tough to bargain with. he won;t come down under $26K. i've had more success upstate ($25K range)
Perhaps FHI has same attitude towards other Subaru Distributors?
That's a common sales tactic to try and convince you to buy there. Reality is that the service dept is a separate operation and normally welcomes all business.
-Frank
The last set I bought I got from England, the genuine Subaru part. They aren't nearly as good as the after-market ones I had previously bought, but it is too bad that Subaru makes and sells them, just not in the USA. The experience was expensive and a nightmare since one of the visors came cracked from being bent in transit.
Nice that they carry ones for the Tribeca too since that may be my next purchase.
i know EXACTLY what lady you are talking about.... ha ha so funny. yeah, it's the old school brooklyn-ese in full effect. we dealt with a guy there who was nice, but didn't really know the car inside and out (a friend who came with me knew a few more things about the forester than he did!) anyways, in cobble hill / carrol gardens area where we live almost every other car on the block is a subaru, so i'm guessing those things sell themselves and they've prob become comfortable on their laurels. To be fair, this is the first car i've bought from a dealer and i've nothing else to compare it to. who knows, maybe it was first class compared to what else is out there :confuse: did you wind up buying a car yet?
that's a good question. 2 days after i got it we hit the road for a vacation up in the adirondacks (great place to drive a new car with all the winding roads and hills) so i can't really comment on city mpg. the dash readout hovered in the 27mpg range on the highway, but i'm driving just a few miles over the limit in cruise control and i don't have the turbo. (i've got two little ones in the back!) i was happy to see that a 5.5 hr drive didn't wipe out the tank, took it down almost 3/4. i'm on the road again soon, so i'll keep an eye on the mileage to see if it's consistent. how's your experience been?
tim
C & D also briefly mentions the base version (one reviewer liked it better because of the Manual trans availability).
A road trip to the adirondacks sounds nice. Glad to hear you are enjoying the car.
I did not get the car yet. I was just informed that it should come in this month (X-Limited). Meanwhile I am having fun at the Rav4 forum teasing them about the recent Consumer Reports article.
Nice to see the Forester won another MT comparo, also. Link since I didn't see it before:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0809_turbocharged_crossover_compari- son/index.html
Check out the new CR, also, which I just got yesterday. They added tests of the Tiguan and the Infiniti EX. The Forester XT rates higher than those and spanks the BMW X3 and Land Rover LR2 for good measure.
It's cool to see a mainstream crossover whooping the luxury ones. :P
I missed you guys, though 3 weeks in Brazil wasn't so bad. Nearly 300 posts to catch up on, so that took me a while.
Kurt: I checked out a Mercury Mariner Hybrid. Problem is, it was near $30k even discounted, and the interior just can't hold up to scrutiny at those prices. For $23-25k maybe, but once you're in the upper 20s it's just too cheap feeling, even the leather is shiny.
Glad to see you got your moonroof tinted, a few others did as well. We have a car port so I think I'll pass, but I did tint my '98 Forester back then. Anyone got pics?
12 week wait? TWELVE weeks? Sheesh. We ordered ours and IIRC it took 5-6 weeks. Hang in there for those waiting, it's worth the wait.
Scrolled through some beautiful photos while catching up...nice!
Head Restraints, eh? IIHS would agree:
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/headrestraints.aspx?subaru
Note that Subaru obtained those good scores well before Honda and Toyota. It's worth the sacrifice in nap-ability to know my wife is safe. :shades:
C&D ' ll probably fall in love with Tiguan as it has the "Euro ride and Handling" they crave. But that's their slant.
Forester XT-L gets same mileage but is substantially quicker
Forester XT-L has tighter turning circle and more ground clearance.
Tiguan has nicer interior.
Tiguan costs a __lot__ more than the Forester XT-L when comparably equipped.
CU's web site is not updated yet with Tiguan info.
Well, not quite. I guess it depends on your interpretation of "comparably equipped" being loaded at top trim levels vs. actual content.
By that I mean, a loaded Tiguan SEL has xenon headlights that pivot with steering, rain sensing windshield wipers, automatic headlights, 18" wheels, auto up and down power windows for all 4 windows, height adjustable front passenger seat, lit glovebox and vanity lights, sun visor extenders, memory drivers seat, standard rear camera with the navigation system, a 30 GB hard drive and SD card slot in the navigation system, a 6-speed automatic, rear side airbags, and (arguably) higher quality of materials throughout the cabin.
Apples to apples, loaded with nav, turbo, sunroof, and AWD, in both models, the Forester MSRP is over $5,000 less. But you be the judge if the extra features listed above are worth that much to you.
Personally, I'd pay about $2500 for those extras, but almost $6000 is a lot to swallow.
If money is no object to you and you want to push the envelope with near-luxury compact crosssovers, then the Tiguan is a really, really nice package.
In my research, the only things that the Tiguan lacks vs. the Forester is lack of availability of Homelink, a 4' larger turning radius, and slightly slower acceleration.
Elliot
hee hee.
-mike
For the money I believe the X-limited is the best bargin. You simply get a lot of car for the money. I am not that concerned with the 0-60 (otherwise I would have bought a fast sedan) and am sure that its the last thing an SUV shopper looks for. Additionaly the acceleration on the rav4 V6 and XT is very linear. You don't have that neck snapping acceleration and they are dangerous in fast sharp turns. When I want to have fun driving, nothing beats my new Mini Cooper S with a 6 speed manual :shades:
And where's the benefit of the 6 speed auto? It's smaller and slower, yet no more fuel efficient, and still requires premium.
More ratios sound nice on paper, but where's the beef? All that complexity didn't really pay off any dividends in terms of performance results.
Having said that, I'm still curious to try one out.
What surprised me was just how many curves, creases, and concave/convex transitions there are on the body. Our old 1998 Forester was downright slad-sided in comparison (only fender flares broke up the monotony).
It's funny that the overall shape looks similar, but when you get up close and really put your hands on the body, it has some really attractive curves.
It took more time, due to having more surface transitions and less plastic cladding than our old one, but it was worth it. I got a new appreciation for the styling, much of it very subtle.
Bob
I was curious about Tiguan, and yes its content sounds nice, but our local area lacks good VW support. Indeed, employees new to our area are dumping their VW's as fast as they can. Given VW's hit or miss reliability (The VW Tourang rates terrible, while the Rabbit rates good) which VW admitted in a recent on-line interview, it seemed a bad bet. Maybe in 4 - 6 years ?? :confuse:
And yes there are a lot of subtle curves and creases in the '09 Forester. Discovered that while REJEX'ing it a few weeks ago.
The Mazda CX-7's turbo was supposedly re-tuned to allow regular gas to be used. However, Premium is recomended. In Forester XT, it's required to keep engine (particularly cylinder #4) from overheating.
That engine is already de-tuned from the Speed6/Speed3 so it sort of makes sense.
What if Subaru had a light-pressure turbo engine with 210hp or so for the Limited models? I think a lot of people would opt for that if it still ran on regular.
We're playing Monday Morning Quarterback, and meanwhile Subaru is counting the money from 51% higher sales compared to last year for the month of July.
The H6 used a series flow system which let some of the cylinders run hotter than others. It now uses a parallel flow system which evens out the temperature and let Subaru retune it to run on regular fuel.
Forester's engine still uses series flow cooling, and Cylinder 4 runs the hottest. That could be why Subaru put its knock sensor there. :surprise:
I wonder if any racing Foresters/STI's out there have had block mods to change engine cooling flow? :confuse:
hee hee.
I switched from a Passat W8 wagon equipped like that loaded Tiguan to an H6 Outback after losing the W8 to the service bay one too many times....including one tow!
Yes, the W8 was much nicer than my Outback to drive and ride in, but NASTY TO OWN. Beware the Tiguan.
It seems with VW that it's Love/Hate. Owners either love them or absolutely hate them, with few between. A lot of former VW owners I know will never go back, no matter what. Yet others are fiercely loyal.
That's far too simplistic a formula. Yes in certain scenarios, having more mass can be advantagous but it can also be a hindrance. For instance, more mass takes more effort to stop and degrades high-speed avoidance manuevers. In additon, there are plenty of large vehicles which perform only average or worse in crash testing while the Smart car, one of the smallest & lighest vehicles on the road, does quite well.
So it's more about where the "metal" is and how it's configured (safety structure)than strictly how much total "metal" a given vehicle has.
-Frank
Car safety designs these days are all about crumple areas in impact zones, seat belts, air bags and keeping the passenger compartment as intact as possibly. Some of the worst accidents I've seen as far as human body damage were in 50's and 60's cars which had a lot more metal. Those cars had no way of transferring energy away from the humans inside. I witnessed a huge older Chrysler in an accident where the gal driving was impaled on the steering wheel column and her child suffered internal injuries from his seat beat. The car, at impact with the truck it hit, had no crumple areas to slow the deceleration. F=ma. Newton's second law of motion is still in effect today. That Chrysler looked OK afterwards but my daughter walked away from a head on collision in her Toyota Tercel but her car was a mess. The passenger compartment held up and the engine broke away and shoved downward and the whole front end crumpled - just the way it was designed to. That Toyota didn't have a lot a lot of metal but it was designed well for a collision..
Every accident is different and it's hard to predict which car will be safer in a particular incident.
better metal = safer car
better welding = safer car
Using high strength steel and seam welding seems to make a very solid vehicle. VW and Audi tend to use seam welding.
I do not know if Subaru uses seam welding or not.
By comparison, GM uses a lot of spot welding (Ion and Malibu Maxx were full of it), and their structures are weaker as a result.
I can drop a raw egg from a height of 5 meters (about 15 feet) and not have the shell crack using only a single sheet of notebook paper and some tape for protection. My students are challenged to do that every year in my classes. The ones that pay close attention and understand the concepts of the lesson plan before the drop are sometimes successful or come close.
Car safety today is all about building a car to be able to absorb as much energy as possible before it reaches the people inside. There are no equations as suggested in these posts in the real world of automotive engineering or in physics in general. For every complex problem there is a simple but wrong answer. What else can I say?
simple but wrong answer. What else can I say?
5 meters is not about 15 feet. It's well over 16 feet. :P
invoice 24,330 (edmonds) + 650 shipping + 200 PZEV = 25,180 estimate dealer cost.
More mass does help in a multi-vehicle crash, but only if all other things are equal.
If you think about it, old-school body-on-frame SUVs tended to score poorly in crash tests, so mass alone isn't a good indicator.
I see a few Audis and LOTS of Subarus on the IIHS Top Safety Picks list, but no VWs...
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/default.aspx
and where in NY did you pick yours up for $24.5?
It was very easy, it came off very clean and looks pertty good. I think a few more applications it will look even better.
Ed
I totally agree with the last part of your sentence. However, I believe the concept of crash design is more related to the transference of energy to somewhere that the humans aren't in a crash rather than the "slowing down" of energy.
There are no equations as suggested in these posts in the real world of automotive engineering or in physics in general.
I'm not understanding this comment. There are plenty of equations which explain the dynamics involved in a crash (or design failure). I tend to like those that are dealing with constraint and over-constraint in a design. It is possible to over constrain something, so that there is a more catastrophic failure because there were too many constraining points in a given design rather than too few.