service yesterday. I had the "popping" noise under the driver side floor. My Accord was made 11/02 and it started about 2 months ago. I read it here about the noise and that Honda had a fix, which entailed a spot weld to stop the body panels from rubbing against the bulkhead. I told this to the service consultant, he had tech look at it. Tech said this was normal, a brake pad sound-I told him he was wrong, and had Service Mgr. ride with me. He heard sound, said would Could you please provide the name and location of the service department that fixed the popping sound that occurs during accelerating and braking. I have taken in my 03 Honda Accord V6 numerous times to have the problem fixed but my service department is clueless even after providing them posts about the missing spot welds and telling them about the techline documents. They insist that that's not the problem but they still haven't fixed it.
Thankscheck Techline. Called the next day, said there was a fix and to bring it in. Took two days, the sound is gone. This problem was only on V6 Sedans and was fixed on the assembly line for later Accords. If you have this sound, basically during accelerating and sometimes braking, that's it. The ABS check is a minor thump, and only once. This sound occured at every stoplight. Don't let them tell you this is normal.
-------------------------------------- Could you please provide the name and location of the service department that fixed the popping sound that occurs during accelerating and braking. I have taken in my 03 Honda Accord V6 numerous times to have the problem fixed but my service department is clueless even after providing them posts about the missing spot welds and telling them about the techline documents. They insist that that's not the problem but they still haven't fixed it.
The accelerator pedal on my 1998 Accord EX gets "stuck" when the engine cools down and you first attempt to drive off after starting. No problem pressing the pedal when engine is warm. When cold I have to press very hard to release it. Has anyone else seen this problem? If yes what causes this and is there anything a 'Do It Yourselfer' can do to fix it instead of taking it to the dealer. Thanks
but I would call the regional Honda Customer representative in your area. Or try another dealer. The noise is NOT normal, just ask the service manager to ride with you, shut off everything, and find a smooth patch of road. You drive the car. Accelerate, brake and the noise should be heard. It is not the brakes because it also happen to me when braking. He cannot deny hearing the sound, if he says it's normal, tell him you want to have a rep from Honda look at the car. Hope this helps, let us know what happens. Good Luck!
Thanks for the quick reply maxpower02! I had the service manager ride with me and he heard the sound but they don't know how or don't want to fix it. I kept telling them to check the spot welds but I think they're nervous about taking on the job. Supposedly there is a honda techline document explaining the fix but my service department can't seem to find it.
most timing belt covers have a viewport near the crank and cams. Usually about the size of a nickel with a rubber grommet covering it. It's only purpose as far as I can tell is to manually turn the belt and view it through the inspection hole(2 person job) or to see if the cams are turning with the crank.
If there was a severely damaged belt, it is very unlikely that it is your timing belt unless you shattered the cover, or they forgot to replace the cover during the maintenance... most likely it is a broke belt on one of the pulleys, and the lack of pressure is causing another belt to squeal... wierd systems, these belts.
Has anyone had problems with chattering wipers or wiper blade deposits on the windshield? I've cleaned the glass with Bi-nami and other cleaners per Honda suggestion and also had them replace the blades twice. Once clean with new blades, the wipers work for about 45 minutes and then the noise, deposits and chatter return... the deposits are near the end of the wiper stroke/travel (locations where the wipers reverse direction) Any suggestions? I have checked the blade orientation to the glass and that seems fine. It's almost like the glass is not smooth enough or the tension is wrong (or a bad design). Also tried rain-x early on. Thoughts, suggestions???
Only visual with the covers removed unless it is cutting through the cover which I have seen happen before. But car would not continue to run if it was broken but would if it was just loose and working its way outward cutting into the covers.
I have a new 04 Coupe and my roommate constantly slams the trunk shut from full-open. I lower it halfway and then shut it but he swings it from the top all the way down. I even asked him to be more gentle but it seems like something he can't stop doing. Do you think this will cause problems in the future?
chucko3's tsb to the service manager. If he won't do the job, tell him you want the regional Honda customer rep's number. Tell him you want the three of you to take a ride and get his/her opinion about how to correct the noise. This must be real aggravating for you, but keep at it. Tell the Honda rep you are unhappy with the car, this is the last Honda you are going to buy...etc. Show them how upset you are, but be nice. I wanted to strangle the service rep, but I never raised my voice. If you go "nuts" no one will want to help you, and you lose. If you are courteous and rationale, they will return the same behavior. Just a voice from experience! Good luck, let us know what happens.
I am having this done as we speak. My dealer actually sent the car to a local body shop to have the job done. They did not feel comfortable doing it themselves. Plus, there is the issue or repainting, seal coating, etc. I will let you guys know how this went. The body guy told me that it was actually easier than he thought...
Thanks for the advice maxpower02 and thanks for the TSB mgaccord! This will be a big help! Now I have proof that there is a fix out there. I have been dealing with this problem for 8 months now and its been absolutely driving me crazy! I made an appointment first thing Friday morning and will be bring along the TSB just in case they can't find it for themselves. I'll let you all know how thing go. Thanks!
I agree that unless there is a spoiler on it, there shouldn't be a huge issue, of course, there is the issue of respect.
If there is something in the way one day, it could be a problem depending on the force involved. probably wouldn't be very cheap to fix a dent or damaged catch on the trunk. I usually lower all the way down, then just push down the last inch or so...
If you really want, you *could* upgrade the trunk springs to the ones for the trunk with the spoiler, that should slow it down a bit.
When I was shopping around for a dealer to replace my timing belt, found most quoted replacing the water pump without even telling you they included that option. Some got real snippy when I asked them what it would cost without replacing the water pump-think it was between $50 and 100.
Guy who got the job said they only replaced water pumps when they had a problem and they have very few problems with honda water pumps.
Asked one service guy who was a "replacer" if he also ground disc brake rotors every time he replace pads. He got angry-think he was a grinder also-will have to call him back now and see if he grinds.
Yeah it would be a major bummer to have to replace a water pump a few months after having replaced the timing belt-but not enough to spend the bucks-for me at least.
(Driver's seat would shift on hard left turns) Brought the car in today, and they confirmed that the seat was "loose" and installed seat shims ("shim set 90410" - under warranty - no charge). I found extra left hand turns driving home, and it doesn't move at all.
They also fixed the first "blemish" (sniffle) - a small scrape on passenger side view mirror. (No charge for that either.)
Now the real test - I don't find any faults with the Michelin stock tires on my car, but the snows were put on today. (Bridgestone Blizzaks - Nokian Hakkeppellitas are out of stock for the rest of the season!) If I notice a difference, especially with all the rain we are getting, I'll be back here in the spring begging for tire recommendations!
good to know they fixed all of your problems. what are seat shims? my seats are totally fine on any and all curves. if i am going 60, and slam on the brakes to go 10, real fast, everything falls of the backseat, and i think i feel my seat move forward the slightest bit, but i can't actually move the seat at all.
can you describe what a shim is, where is goes, etc. thanks!
according2me - Thank you so much for referring me to those postings. I will have to use that suggestion this weekend. These Edmunds Town Hall forums are so informative and helpful I am not sure how we would have managed without these free advices. Notwithstanding the money we are saving by avoiding the service departments of our friendly car dealers.
I picked-up my car last night and have only heard the popping noise once as I was going around a corner. Upon acceleration and deceleration, I have yet to hear it. Let's keep our fingers crossed-
You are correct. When you ask for the quote to replace the timing belt, the quote includes all belts & water pump. If you have not replaced the water pump at the time you replace the t-belt, it's a good idea to replace the pump. The cost (part & labor) to replace the water pump itself is close to the t-bel job. So throw in another ~$100, you get the pump replaced. It's like pay me small now or pay me big later.
I usually do it... what's a timing belt change cost, about 800-1000? I do them myself, but even the parts end up costing me almost 4-500 alone. Of course, I usually change the front seal, Idler pulley, water pump, all belts, and a tune up all in one.
It really sucks when the idler pulley bearing goes bad after 40k(150k on the car) and starts burning the belt, causing it to fail prematurely(had this happen, had the idler pulley checked, was fine when timing belt changed)... 2 people I know had a water pump main shaft shear right inside of the bearing, and the other guy developed a leak. Luckily for me, when the idler pulley bearing went bad, it was in a Toyota NI engine, and the valves didn't tap. Honda, well... I don't think they make engines that are NI. At the very least, I would probably have the service guy pull the water pump and inspect the bearing and main shaft for signs of wear/corrosion. Of course, at that point, for an extra $50 or so, he can just put a new one in....
Almost like needing a 10, 12, 14, and 17mm sockets, so you go in and buy them for $4ea, but won't buy the 10piece set w/ all those sockets and a ratchet for $20 because you don't need them. (needless to say, I have a few extra sockets lying around... okay, a bunch of 'em)
I am looking for a 1997 Accord wagon and many are available in the northerly climes, like Ohio or New York where I believe they use salt on the roads in winter (they don't do this where I live). Am I looking at buying a potential rustbucket, or are the anti corrosion coatings on that era Hondas pretty effective? Owners usually say there is no rust visible, but what might NOT be visible? Any help appreciated. I just wish Honda would make a wagon again!
The pricest # I got from my local dealers was 550-got mine changed for $300 IIRC. Expect to get another hundred K on this accord-gee better buy a few spare water pumps.
Sorry, Justin, I don't know exactly what seat shims are, or where they put them, but I do know that they work, and the seat is no longer moving unless I want it to!
Before the fix, I had a neighbor (huge guy, bodybuilder, etc.) try to push and tug on the seat, and he couldn't get it to budge. Only thing that would do it was a hard, left turn - curves, no matter the speed or sharpness, didn't do it.
I was sure they were going to say there was nothing wrong with it, that all seats have some give, etc., but... when they drove the car into the shop, they made sure to do a hard left, and (luckily for me!) the seat did shift.
I just purchased an '04 Accord EX 4 cyl with cloth interior. I really love the features and general fit and finish. My prior vehicle was a '98 Accord DX. Yes this is my 1st car with power windows and heck, power everything. The handling and power is impressive. I just have 700 miles on it now so maybe I'm a bit premature in posting my one complaint about the car. I've read much about window seals creaking over uneven pavement and I it looks like I'm part of the creaking club. My hope is that the car just needs to break in and the sound will diminish over time. When I look at the car it just looks so well put together and drives so nice I can't believe Honda couldn't avoid the noisy door seals. What is particularly distressing is that the creaking noise occurs when entering and exiting driveways which indicates (to me anyway) that the car has a loose flexible chassis. The thing sometimes sounds like a 30 year old Dodge with rattly windows but drives like the modern car that it is...quite a strange thing!! Anyway, I will give it time and have the matter looked into at the first oil change...hopefully it will just go away. I really love Honda's (we have a '03 CRV EX, no issues) and I love my car BUT the noisy rattly sound mainly from the passenger side has got to go. Love to hear from other '04 owners about their experience so far. I really don't remember my 98 DX accord making such noise when it was new but believe me, the 04 is a much better car overall. I'm open to all suggestions and/or solutions to this problem.....ping isellhondas.
Yup bought them 3 accords ago and still have most-mine don't leak so why change them.
The 04 I4's use a chain driven timing belt IIRC-does it drive the water pump also - hmm guess water pump sales on these models will decrease accordingly. Would think the water pump should continue to be belt driven-interesting question-anybody know the answer????
hmm... sounds like things are cheaper in your part of town, or maybe just more competition, i dunno... either way, you paid $300 to have a $20 belt changed, why not throw in the extra $50(probably can get it cheaper at the local parts store) to have the water pump changed and be done witht that aspect of the maintenance?
The way I got to the 800 was an average of say 4-5 hours @ 75/hr(in my area) is about 3-400 in itself. Add in about $300 for parts(t-belt, water pump, idler pulley, drive belts, etc) and another $100 or so for the tune-up parts(cap, rotor, wires, plugs, fuel/air filters, etc) which I have had them do the same time if I am lazy.
One of them commit and do it all at once things for me... if I am working on it and am already filthy, I will usually opt to do what I can ...
The tune up parts prices for cap, rotor, wires and plugs are well over $200-got mine done on a freeby emissions fix. Replacing the water pump involves reseating a O ring-have lots of experience with O rings-if I had absolute trust with the tech doing the work no problem-but it is just another possible source of trouble-O ring leak.
If it ain't broke-don't fix it unless it helps your wallet.
You know Honda reccommends replacing the crush washer every oil change. Right?
And you even went out and bought a supply of them...Right?
But you don't/won't use them?
I just don't understnad.
For those who may not know...
A crush washer does it's "crush" thing only once. By the washer crushing when the plug is tightened it helps prevent overtightening of the drain plug.
When the old washer is used, it is necessary to apply more force to seat the drain plug.
It's not REAL critical, but given enough time and enough oil changes, it's easy to strip the oil pan threads. At that point, it'll leak and the entire oil pan may have to be replaced.
He has the crush washers but refuses to use them???
No logic to it-why use a part when it is not needed-found other uses for a couple of them in 23 years. Am always building something-built a gas grill based coffee bean roaster last year-only had to buy a few parts-oodles of spares about. Redesigned and rebuilt a wood burning offset meat smoker this spring.
However for those of you who change your own honda auto tranny fluid aka ATF-think you should consider changing that washer as ATF is "thinner" than motor oil and it stays in longer-30K-no more IMHO-despite the 90K suggested change interval-got a CEL on tranny and the fluid was burnt with ALL highway driving at 70K.
So like I said-don't fix it if it ain't broke but do change that ATF at 30K (using only honda atf) and use a new and pricey washer.
91 Accord-- Had timing belt replaced @ 80K. Water pump started leaking at 115K. Approx. $300 wasted.
Had timing belt replaced again at 145K. Now water pump is leaking at 185K. Best price that I have been quoted to do all over again is $585.
Think I have now learned my lesson. Water pump will be replaced EVERY time that the timing belt is replaced.
Also on the crush washers. Reused the same washer one time too many on a motorcycle and stripped the threads in the oil pan. If you think that an oil pan for an Accord is expensive, price one for a motorcycle!!!
As Isell says, they are called "crush" washers for good reason.
I have seen the same thing happen several times before and I am sure to see it again in the future. The labor is already paid for, so the parts price to do the water pump is worth the piece of mind.
As for the new chains and pumps there is no labor overlap so that takes away the need to do them at the same time.
Crush washers are real cheap and if changed often and properly will save the pan from being damaged
seems to me you change the crush washer everytime you change oil--- seems odd one wouldn't-- particularly at the price of them...what are they-- a nickel?
reminds me of a classic puzzler on the NPR Car Talk show.... some guy hooks up a vacuum to engine oil cap hole... so he could put the crush washer he forgot to put on when he changed oil....BOGUS was the key word used. funny guys, click and clack.
that the water pump is still driven by the timing chain in the new engines... what it means to me is that when you change that leaky water pump at 100-140k miles, you will end up changing the chain as well... =oP either way.
I enjoy reading the discussions about replacing timing chains, water pumps and crush washers. It looks like some people do not like to spend money on maintenance. I have a great idea! Do not perform any maintenance on the engine. Don't even check, or change the oil. When the engine finally dies, and the dealer replaces it with a new unit, you will automatically get a new timing chain, a new water pump, a new supply of engine oil, a new oil filter and a new crush washer. Think of the money you will save on routine maintenance. ----Just my opinion. ----Greg
My old 80 accord now has over 300K on it-sold it at 200 and only had to replace clutch and front wheel bearing and some rusted out stuff. Not bad and it did not burn any oil at 200k-on same "crush" washer as came out of the factory. Current accord has 160K on it-only out of pocket has been set of pads at around 113, and tranny timing sensors at about 150. Expect to get 250K out of this one-maybe more-sadly though when I got my extended emissions oil change-the tech changed the crush washer-forgot to tell him to save the old one.
Am a serious believer in maintenance-but why use a crush washer when it is not needed-torque the drain plug to no more than 20 foot pounds - manual sez 33 but I am cautious - and no leaks or crushed washers or stripped drain plugs in 40+ years.
How many of you guys change your own oil-the new accords and Oddy has really simplified oil change-no jack required. Also how many of you with accords with auto trannies change atf every 30K or less-course if you drive like a granny-90K change intervals should do the trick.
Have well over 500K miles on accords I have owned and maintained and not one maintenance related failure-da proof be in da pudding.
I have pressure at 32 both front and back with the digital gauge, came to dealer they lower to 26, it seems to more quiet but gas level seems to lower faster
What are you going to do, with all the money that you saved, by not replacing the "crush washer" on the drain plug of the crankcase, over the years of ownership for this vehicle???? That should be a sizeable amount of money by this time. Are you going to invest it in the stock market?
Comments
When everything is disassembled, the water pump is RIGHT THERE and easy to replace.
It's false economy to not replace it at this time.
It **could** last another 100,000 miles or it could start leaking two months later in which case the whole job would pretty much have to be done over.
This is why we, and any good shop will suggest doing the pump along with the t-belt.
And, the others are correct..you can't see a timing belt without taking off the cover.
Thankscheck Techline. Called the next day, said there was a fix and to bring it in. Took two days, the sound is gone. This problem was only on V6 Sedans and was fixed on the assembly line for later Accords. If you have this sound, basically during accelerating and sometimes braking, that's it. The ABS check is a minor thump, and only once. This sound occured at every stoplight. Don't let them tell you this is normal.
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Could you please provide the name and location of the service department that fixed the popping sound that occurs during accelerating and braking. I have taken in my 03 Honda Accord V6 numerous times to have the problem fixed but my service department is clueless even after providing them posts about the missing spot welds and telling them about the techline documents. They insist that that's not the problem but they still haven't fixed it.
Thanks
Thanks
Hope this helps, let us know what happens. Good Luck!
If there was a severely damaged belt, it is very unlikely that it is your timing belt unless you shattered the cover, or they forgot to replace the cover during the maintenance... most likely it is a broke belt on one of the pulleys, and the lack of pressure is causing another belt to squeal... wierd systems, these belts.
Thanks.
Thanks!
I just need to ck for dents and scratches now!!!
IMO, not unless he's built like Arnold the Governor and he's really leaning into it. Maybe then he might dent the trunk lid.
My Email cdodai@hotmail.com.
Thank you.
My car currently doesn't have any popping noise, but I am curious where/how the fix is.
Is the email bigger than 2MB in size?
if he can't respect your stuff, then don't let him ride in the car with you.
But it shouldn't hurt the car as long as he's putting equal pressure on both sides of the trunk lid when slamming it.
If you have a spoiler it could damage that. I've seen spoilers with a curve down in the middle from the same type of abuse.
If there is something in the way one day, it could be a problem depending on the force involved. probably wouldn't be very cheap to fix a dent or damaged catch on the trunk. I usually lower all the way down, then just push down the last inch or so...
If you really want, you *could* upgrade the trunk springs to the ones for the trunk with the spoiler, that should slow it down a bit.
Guy who got the job said they only replaced water pumps when they had a problem and they have very few problems with honda water pumps.
Asked one service guy who was a "replacer" if he also ground disc brake rotors every time he replace pads. He got angry-think he was a grinder also-will have to call him back now and see if he grinds.
Yeah it would be a major bummer to have to replace a water pump a few months after having replaced the timing belt-but not enough to spend the bucks-for me at least.
They also fixed the first "blemish" (sniffle) - a small scrape on passenger side view mirror. (No charge for that either.)
Now the real test - I don't find any faults with the Michelin stock tires on my car, but the snows were put on today. (Bridgestone Blizzaks - Nokian Hakkeppellitas are out of stock for the rest of the season!) If I notice a difference, especially with all the rain we are getting, I'll be back here in the spring begging for tire recommendations!
can you describe what a shim is, where is goes, etc. thanks!
This customer had decided to "save" money by not replacing his water pump as reccommended when he had his timing belt replaced.
Well, guess what?...six months later, the water pump started leaking.
His work order stated that we had reccommended a new pump at the time and stated he had declined the reccomemdation. He was ticked.
The pump has already done 105,000 miles.
Just makes sense to throw a new one on along with a set of drive belts and have one less thing to worry about.
But...it's up to you!
If you have not replaced the water pump at the time you replace the t-belt, it's a good idea to replace the pump. The cost (part & labor) to replace the water pump itself is close to the t-bel job. So throw in another ~$100, you get the pump replaced.
It's like pay me small now or pay me big later.
It really sucks when the idler pulley bearing goes bad after 40k(150k on the car) and starts burning the belt, causing it to fail prematurely(had this happen, had the idler pulley checked, was fine when timing belt changed)... 2 people I know had a water pump main shaft shear right inside of the bearing, and the other guy developed a leak. Luckily for me, when the idler pulley bearing went bad, it was in a Toyota NI engine, and the valves didn't tap. Honda, well... I don't think they make engines that are NI. At the very least, I would probably have the service guy pull the water pump and inspect the bearing and main shaft for signs of wear/corrosion. Of course, at that point, for an extra $50 or so, he can just put a new one in....
Almost like needing a 10, 12, 14, and 17mm sockets, so you go in and buy them for $4ea, but won't buy the 10piece set w/ all those sockets and a ratchet for $20 because you don't need them. (needless to say, I have a few extra sockets lying around... okay, a bunch of 'em)
Before the fix, I had a neighbor (huge guy, bodybuilder, etc.) try to push and tug on the seat, and he couldn't get it to budge. Only thing that would do it was a hard, left turn - curves, no matter the speed or sharpness, didn't do it.
I was sure they were going to say there was nothing wrong with it, that all seats have some give, etc., but... when they drove the car into the shop, they made sure to do a hard left, and (luckily for me!) the seat did shift.
Even when Honda reccommends them and even when you already have them?
The 04 I4's use a chain driven timing belt IIRC-does it drive the water pump also - hmm guess water pump sales on these models will decrease accordingly. Would think the water pump should continue to be belt driven-interesting question-anybody know the answer????
The way I got to the 800 was an average of say 4-5 hours @ 75/hr(in my area) is about 3-400 in itself. Add in about $300 for parts(t-belt, water pump, idler pulley, drive belts, etc) and another $100 or so for the tune-up parts(cap, rotor, wires, plugs, fuel/air filters, etc) which I have had them do the same time if I am lazy.
One of them commit and do it all at once things for me... if I am working on it and am already filthy, I will usually opt to do what I can ...
If it ain't broke-don't fix it unless it helps your wallet.
You know Honda reccommends replacing the crush washer every oil change. Right?
And you even went out and bought a supply of them...Right?
But you don't/won't use them?
I just don't understnad.
For those who may not know...
A crush washer does it's "crush" thing only once. By the washer crushing when the plug is tightened it helps prevent overtightening of the drain plug.
When the old washer is used, it is necessary to apply more force to seat the drain plug.
It's not REAL critical, but given enough time and enough oil changes, it's easy to strip the oil pan threads. At that point, it'll leak and the entire oil pan may have to be replaced.
He has the crush washers but refuses to use them???
I just don't understand the logic, that's all...
However for those of you who change your own honda auto tranny fluid aka ATF-think you should consider changing that washer as ATF is "thinner" than motor oil and it stays in longer-30K-no more IMHO-despite the 90K suggested change interval-got a CEL on tranny and the fluid was burnt with ALL highway driving at 70K.
So like I said-don't fix it if it ain't broke but do change that ATF at 30K (using only honda atf) and use a new and pricey washer.
91 Accord--
Had timing belt replaced @ 80K. Water pump started leaking at 115K. Approx. $300 wasted.
Had timing belt replaced again at 145K. Now water pump is leaking at 185K. Best price that I have been quoted to do all over again is $585.
Think I have now learned my lesson. Water pump will be replaced EVERY time that the timing belt is replaced.
Also on the crush washers. Reused the same washer one time too many on a motorcycle and stripped the threads in the oil pan. If you think that an oil pan for an Accord is expensive, price one for a motorcycle!!!
As Isell says, they are called "crush" washers for good reason.
As for the new chains and pumps there is no labor overlap so that takes away the need to do them at the same time.
Crush washers are real cheap and if changed often and properly will save the pan from being damaged
I wonder if auburn would change the oil in his own Honda and not use the 25 cent crush washer?
To each his own...
reminds me of a classic puzzler on the NPR Car Talk show.... some guy hooks up a vacuum to engine oil cap hole... so he could put the crush washer he forgot to put on when he changed oil....BOGUS was the key word used. funny guys, click and clack.
Am a serious believer in maintenance-but why use a crush washer when it is not needed-torque the drain plug to no more than 20 foot pounds - manual sez 33 but I am cautious - and no leaks or crushed washers or stripped drain plugs in 40+ years.
How many of you guys change your own oil-the new accords and Oddy has really simplified oil change-no jack required. Also how many of you with accords with auto trannies change atf every 30K or less-course if you drive like a granny-90K change intervals should do the trick.
Have well over 500K miles on accords I have owned and maintained and not one maintenance related failure-da proof be in da pudding.