Classic-had it myself and changed rear wheel bearings-still whompped-yeah hear cars doing the same when I have window down on road.
99% you have worn cups on the outside edges of your rear tires-check and see if you can see the cups. Happens cause you did not rotate your tires often enough-something about fwd cars that cause this to happen-can be in perfect alighnment and still happen. Rotate tires now-remember never ever let someone use a air driven impact wrench to tighten your lug nuts or your disc brake rotors will be warped and that is serious bucks on an older honda.
These tires will behave better on the front but still have a wear pattern-should rotate every 10K or so. Let us know.
I guess when it comes down to it, I will follow the recommendation Honda - the manufacturer who designed and built the car -makes, and not the recommendation that the dealer - into whose pocket the profits from more frequent oil changes go - makes when making a decision as to when the break-in oil should be changed.
You mentioned back a few posts that if you were inspecting a car with sludge, despite the fact that manufacturer's recommendations were followe with maintenance, you would disallow the warranty claim/coverage and take them to court. Not sure how you can make that argument, because in court a lay customer is not going to be charged with responsibility for analyzing and evaluating oil quality, ESPECIALLY where manufacturer recommendations were strictly adhered to.
On the other hand, if I were inspecting a car that had some form of warrantable engine problem, and I found out that the customer expressly diesregarded the recommended oil change interval with the break-in oil, I would disallow the coverage and have a much better case for doing so than in the previous situation.
You have it backwards. I would not take the customer to court. I would let the customer initiate the legal action against the parent company. I would refuse coverage under the warranty if the engine had "sludge". The mileage limits in the "Book of Honda" are only guide lines. If you put you vehicle through severe service, you as the owner of that vehicle, are responsible for giving it proper maintenance based on the type of use.------Just my opinion. -----Greg.
I too was a 3rd generation Honda Accord owner when I purchased my 03 EX V6 Coupe last October and had a year full of squeeks, rattles, warped rotors, bad window trim and the "normal" transmission whining sound (see posts #6097 #6082 #6064). Most of the problems were corrected (I had to pay for the rotors, thanks), however, the transmission problem was handled so poorly by my dealership and Honda America and cost me multiple trips to my dealer, test drives with technicians, time away from work and a near accident on the 101 due to the tranny failing. I purchased this car to NOT have any problems - it finally became more than I wanted to deal with so I got rid of the car last week - traded it in on a new TL. My fingers are crossed hoping that the transmission in the TL, which is a new design, will be at the quality levels Honda was known for.
BTW - I LOVE the TL, no squeeks, no rattles, no engine noise and much smoother ride. Glad I got rid of my crappy old Accord . . .
Wow, you must have taken a nice size financial hit when you sold your accord.
Im surprised you paid for your rotors too.. I have heard multiple stories where people have had problems with their rotors, and they were replaced with no charge.
But, the TL is an awesome car, Im guessing you got the 04.. right? THe old school 03 TL is nice, but isnt that much nicer then the new 03 accord. But the 04 TL is a beautiful car. BEst of luck, sorry Honda disappointed you.
Does anyone else have a problem with excessive vibration on an '03 Accord, and any suggestions for me? I complained so much to the dealer that they brought a factor rep who worked on it for a day. Vibration still exists at idle, but now noticeable at 65 mph. American Honda is offering an extended warranty to shut me up but I'm uncertain what to do next. I'm really disappointed at my first Honda. Even tried to trade it in for a Toyota, but was insulted at the offer.
sftroy, thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one with so many problems on my '03. My dealer has tried, I think, to correct some of the problems, but the fixes don't last long. They put some kind of grease on the driver's side window so it won't squeak when rubbing against the rubber trim, but it only helps for a week or so, and they insist I can't buy the stuff anywhere (some BS about it coming from Japan and not available to consumers), so I stopped bothering to have it applied, since it's such a temporary fix. They've taken the CD player out twice and put some kind of foam tape around it that cut the rattling down some, but it's still there. The trunk rattle they have no idea how to address, nor the creaking passenger's side door. The brake clunking, I know from experience with my CR-V, will never be right.
I'm about to take the financial hit myself and trade the sucker in on something else. I'm a real estate agent, so I'm in this car much of the day, and just walking into the garage looking at it depresses me, knowing I have to listen to it all day. I know it would be impossible to sell to a private party, but at this point the peace and quiet of a better-built car would be worth the few thousand bucks I'll lose.
I wish they still made 'em like my little '80 Civic hatchback. That car was a tight little reliable trooper.
I would go with a tire problem such as mentioned or with something stuck in it or on it. If not then maybe you hear a wheel bearing starting to go bad...Check the tires out for anything stuck on or in them as well as the wear pattern and go from there. Good luck
----The mileage limits in the "Book of Honda" are only guide lines. If you put you vehicle through severe service, you as the owner of that vehicle, are responsible for giving it proper maintenance based on the type of use.------Just my opinion. -----Greg. ------
How are we as the owner supposed to determine what is adequate service regardless of the type of service? Is an oil change every 500 miles enough. Maybe every other day? Also by your argument if I as the owner consider that the I put very little stress on my vehicle (i.e. cruising at 50 miles per hour in top gear on flat level well maintained roads (middle of Kansas in the fall)) can I choose to extend my oil changes beyond the 10,000 miles and still expect Honda to honour the warranty if I have engine problems? By your argument you should say yes because it is the owner's responsibility to determine what is best for their car and Honda is only a guideline.
By the way. If a consumer did follow a manufacturers' maintenance reccomendations to the tee and there were still warranty issues, the consumer would win every time in court. Do a little research an product liability law and you'll see what I mean. The consumer is acting in good faith, taking due diligence to follow the guidelines set by the manufacturer, and is not negligent in anyway. The consumer has no fault in this case.
"if" the owner had all records. And if you followed Honda's recommendation, by the time you warranty wears out, you will have only changed your filter once(at 20k) and your oil three times(10, 20, 30k)...
Of course, the manual says you should follow the Severe if you Mainly drive in these conditions:
1>Less than 5mi per trip, or in freezing weather, less than 10mi. 2>driving in extremely hot(over 90F) conditions 3>extensive idling or long periods of stop and go driving 4>trailer towing, driving w/ a roof rack, or mountanous conditions 5>driving on muddy, dusty, or deiced roads.
It's like a huge catch-all... I'm sure the roads are dusty in the middle of Kansas in the fall, in the summer it's probably 90F regularly, during the winter, I would guess it snows, so they would probably deice it, and you may be safe during the spring for the 10k...
Just my opinion, but I would say that at least 75% of the people out there should be following the severe....
I want to bleed the brake fluid of my wife's 2000 Accord EXL auto with ABS, rear break pads which has 70K on it now.
The part I am concerned about is ABS, do I need to do any thing special to make sure not to damage the ABS modulator or bring on the famous check engine or ABS light, may be disconnect battery!!
I have bleed couple of my old cars before (90 accord, 86 corolla etc) but none had ABS. I do RR first then LF, and LR first then RF crisscross using oem Honda brake fluid. Any suggestions?
Of course with a name like yours, you would bring up the financial hit I took - ;-) I put a lot of miles on my car (32K in 12 months) so the mileage hit was fairly large to begin with. My Acura dealer was giving me a low, low quote ($17K phuleeze) and I managed to negotiate above wholesale but below retail, which I'm OK with. Just like irritatrix's message, I really wouldn't have felt good selling the car to someone directly and I just wanted out of that car ASAP.
And yes, it is the O4 TL. Sweet!!
I've always been a Honda fan and a good customer which really makes me pissed that when I had an issue they failed to acknowledge it and told me my only options are to take them to court or arbitration. I hope they get their act together, especially since I'm in another Honda product.
BTW - I've filed a complaint with National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (www.nhtsa.dot.gov) for Honda's failure to acknowledge that I had a tranny problem which resulted in a tranny failure on a major highway. Hopefully this will result in something positive - I know it made me feel a little better . . .
If there's currently no air in the hydraulic system and the pressure modulator isn't being replaced, then bleed the system as you would any non-ABS system.
My dealer told me that in Wichita, KS, we are using the severe guidline. After I thought about it, I agree. In the summer we often get over 100 degrees, and the winters are rough here too with sometimes weeks passing with snow and ice on the ground. So I'm making 5000 my limit.
It makes me wonder, though, where you could be and stay on the "normal" schedule. Normal lead me to believe that it would be the great majority of the conditions across the US.
My service manuals tell me to bleed from the farthest tire in. So if the ABS module is on the passenger side of the engine compartment, it should be LR, RR, LF, RF. from the longest brakeline to the shortest. There is also a bleed screw on the abs module itself, but you shouldn't need it unless you run the reservoir completely empty.
from a 91-95 Legend and 96-98Civic/94-98Intgegra manual.
I like your logic, but you are wrong! QUESTIONS, ----If you blow an engine, and you have "sluge" in the engine, and the parent company refuses to honor the vehicle warranty, do YOU have the money to initiate a court action to force the company to put an engine in the vehicle?---- While this process is taking place, do YOU have the money to rent or purchase another vehicle? The average person can barely afford to make the monthly lease or purchase payments. If you truly want to beat the auto companies at their own game, give the vehicle very good maintenance, and then when something occurs, you as the consumer, are in the driver's seat in terms of warranty coverage. I YOU personally want to change your oil at 5,000 or 7,500 miles that is "ok" with me. I personally think that 5,000 miles is much too long for the oil and the filter. We can agree to disagree on this subject. -----Just my opinion. ----Greg
My son's 91 Accord will not start. Engine spins freely, but will not fire up. Was running fine today, but when he went out to leave this evening it would not crank. I think it is getting gas, because there was a strong gasoline odor after he cranked on it trying to get it to start. Looking for suggestions before I call AAA.
you can guarantee that if you exceed the manufacturer's recommendation for oil change, you would never develope sludge? I didn't think so. Now, if you're saying the the manufacturer may deny coverage even if you've followed their recommended maintenance schedule religiously, what's to say they won't deny coverage even if you've exceeded their recommendation?! As one poster has said, where do you draw the line? Change your oil every day?
My 89 Accord makes that sound on the rear tires. It sounds like a muffler noise, but it's not. I believe the tread pattern gets something to do with it. You won't hear that thumping noise on a newly paved highway.
To deny coverage under the terms and conditions of a product warranty, the manufacturer must have a reason. "Engine Sludge" is that reason. I just took delivery of a 2004 Honda Civic EX. The first recommended oil and filter change by the dealer is at 3,750 miles, and 3,000 miles there after. Yes, the vehicle has a "break-in" oil from the factory. An internally clean engine will give the owner of the vehicle many trouble free miles. If YOU do not want to change your oil at 3,000 miles DON'T DO IT! Change it at 5,000 or 7,500 miles. If "sludge" is found in an engine, (even if you chnaged the oil and filter according to recommended mileage intervals and you have receipts), the manufacturer can deny warranty coverage. If this occurs, you only have two,(2), options. Change the engine at your expense, or sue the manufacturer in court. QUESTION: ----How many vehicle owners have the money to sue a manufacturer, who already has dozens of attorneys working for the company? In the United States, it would take years for that case to be heard in a court of law, because the value of the engine and the labor associated with the process exceeds the limits of the small claims court system. A manufacturer could easily delay the legal process costing the vehicle owner thousands of dollars in legal fees. Should the company lose the case, all they would have to do is replace the engine under the terms and conditions of the warranty, but on the other side of the issue, they would have had the opportunity to test their warranty in a particular state. QUESTIONS: ---While the owner is waiting for the court case to be heard, what does he / she do for transportation? Do they go out and purchase another vehicle, and make two vehicle payments a month, in addition to legal expenses. The bottom line is simple. Vehicles require maintenance. Oil and filter changes are VERY CHEAP maintenance. The average vehicle owner drives about 12,000 miles a year. At that mileage, it would cost the owner four, (4) oil and filter changes, (Summer, Fall , Winter , & Spring). I don't think that this will break the bank. ------Just my opinion. ----Greg
I'm not auburn, but it sounds like a busted timing belt. Has the Accord had this maintenance? Usually about every 60-90k depending on the conditions driven.
The timing belt is located under a cover under all of your other drive belts. Next to the valve cover you should see a plastic cover that goes from the top of the engine to the bottom. There usually is a little grommet that can be removed to see if the cams are turning, if they aren't while the engine is being cranked, the timing belt is busted.
If it ran fine, then not, your other option is possibly an ignition system failure most likely caused by wet components.
....so many CAPS! You must be trying to make a point.
Maybe I'm wrong, so be it.
You're first argument was all I'm concerned with. That the owner of the vehicle is responsible for determining the maintenance intervals of the vehicle regardless of the manufacturers recommendations. You took the side that it is the owner's fault if they don't change the oil sooner than the manufacturer reccommends. I was just asking if the opposite applied also.
But now you are talking about the reality of fighting a big corporation like Honda. You're right it would be hard to win.
But if, (big if) a person had the resources to fight Honda, and they were at least following the Severe service intervals, they would not have any problem winning the case.
I know you'll have a last word you want to get in, but this is my last post on this issue.
Thanks for the good banter. -----------------------
Re; tblazer & lelandhendrix By the way Kansas in the Fall was just something I pulled out of my rear. I have no idea what Kansas is like in the fall, I just assumed it was very mild. It made me laugh that we had experts it replying that I was not accurate with my statement.
I, too, am having the "shifting driver's seat" phenomenom - a follow-up would be most appreciated before my next service stop with my 03 Accord EX V6.
As well, I have still not yet received the 3 compact disks that were/are trapped in the defective 6-pack stereo unit removed from the car back in July! Apparently, the unit has been traced as far as crossing the border into the US... it must be strapped to the back of a three-legged moose at the rate it is moving across the continent!
Finally, my wife noticed a crack in the rear bumper, just above the left exhaust pipe. It looks as though the vehicle may have been backed into a parking barrier, as the damage is almost completely on the lower surface of the bumper structure, approximately 10 square inches in size. Has anyone reading this had to have damage to the rear bumper repaired yet?
Most of those start up problems are main fuel relays but it can also be many other things. When you first turn the key to the ign II position does the check engine light come on for 2 secounds then go off? Can you hear the fuel pump at that same time run for the 2 secounds? While cranking look into the oil fill cap hole and see if the valves are moving( an easy way to check the timing belt) If all of that seems good then it is probably a bad coil or igniter. No spark conditions can be checked with a dwell meter if you have one or want to. If you do just let me know and I can give you directions on how to check. Good luck
I have recently noticed a squeaking sound coming from the center console near the shifter it sounds like birds are under it. when I apply pressure to the shift area the noise seems to go away. does anyone have any suggestions for me the noise it driving me crazy. I own a 2003 accord v-6 with leather please help.
"To deny coverage under the terms and conditions of a product warranty, the manufacturer must have a reason. "Engine Sludge" is that reason."
Just like aggie1995, I also don't want to continue this debate, but the above statement that you made is logially and intrincically wrong. The manufacturer cannot deny coverage simply on the basis of the existence of a symptom. And sludge is only a symptom. If they can link that to the underlying problem, and then to what caused the problem, and finally if they can show that the cause was due to user-negligence, only then can they consider denial of coverage.
Look at the Toyota sludge fiasco. First they tried to blame the owners, then they fessed up that there was an engine design problem. They finally supposedly changed that particular part of the engine and extended warranty coverage to all affected cars.
BTW, you wouldn't need to be as rich as Bill Gates to fight Honda should the scenerio you described happens. I'm sure there will be some lemon or consumer law applicable thru your local BBB.
But I'm here to tell you what to do with your car. You can change your oil everyday if that's what gives you peace of mind.
Allright, I love the way my ex 03 4cyl drives and handles (a little hard over bumps) and I love the interior. But, I do have the crunchy/squeaky doors that are resolved temporarily with the annoying grease solution. I have a vibrating a pillar, but pressure seems to fix it. I have the buzzing door/window panel, mostly on driver's side, but will be trying the fix listed on this site (take off panel and put some kind of tape on upper shelf that touches window and holds panel on). But, I also have this squeaking fan. It makes a high pitch but relatively low volume squeak which is especially noticeable if the fan is on low (I think it is the same problem mentioned in the long term Edmunds review). Has anyone gotten a resolution for this? This is really making me insane.
I think I was the first one to post about this. It goes in on Wednesday, and I'll report back. Service tech said on the phone that the seats are "supposed to have some movement", whatever that means. I'm not expecting much, since I cannot absolutely make it happen, though it still only happens on hard left hand turns.
I have read several posts on this site where people have noticed that the front and rear bumpers on their '03 white accords have yellowed and do not match the paint on the rest of the car. My friend's '03 accord did this within 6 months! Has anyone with this problem discussed with their dealer? Will honda replace these bumpers? I have been considering buying a white accord, but may talk myself out of it depending on what honda is doing about this issue. the squeaks and rattles in my sister's '03 are also very troubling to me! I'm starting to think honda is just selling the name (and not the quality) these days!
Too bad the '03 accords don't seem to have the build quality of the '93 accord! At 206k miles my EX auto sedan still turns heads, has no squeaks or rattles, and runs as well as it did when I bought it! You still see these cars everywhere. If honda still made them like this, I'd buy one in a heartbeat!
Thanks bburton3, isellhondas, Auburn63 & Chucko3 for your feedback.
I hadn't particularly thought of the tires as the source of this noise, but I guess it makes sense that they would be a likely candidate. I took a look at them, and I didn't notice any particular abnormal wear pattern on them (I'm no expert though). They're Bridgestone BTS 70 tires with under 20000 miles on them (warrantied for 70000) and they seem to have plenty of tread left on them. One unusual thing I've noticed though is that the one currently on the back left loses air a bit more rapidly than the other three. For example, if after a month I needed to add a pound or two to the other tires, I might need to add 5 pounds to that one.
In a couple of weeks I'll have the snow tires (Blizzaks) put on for the winter. I'll ask the Firestone dealer to check the present tires over thoroughly to see if anything might be wrong with them. I'll also see whether I hear the same noise with the snow tires on the car.
As far as rotation goes, I usually don't have the all-season tires on for too much more than 6000 miles after getting them re-installed in the spring, so I haven't really bothered with rotating them. Whether the dealer makes some attempt to put them on in a different configuration the following spring I can't really say for sure.
I got one of those lifetime alignment deals when I purchased the tires (it was only a few bucks more than the one-time alignment), and I ask them to check it every time the tires are changed. When this was last done in April the alignment was supposedly ok.
Once I get the snow tires put back on in early December, and have the other ones looked at, I'll post an update.
I have a 2000 Accord EX V6 with 40000 miles. The A/C works intermit. Works for 30 minutes or less, starts blowing warm air. I shut it off for a minute or so, and it will work fine for another 30 minutes. Dealer says I need a new compressor and evaporator. This does not seem possible. Has anyone had this problem or have an idea what can be the cause.
I had a similar AC problem on my wife's '92 Civic. It was a problem with the AC clutch. The spacer or something. The AC would work for 10 minutes or so when the car was first started and then stop working. Was inexpensive to fix. Hope this helps.
I was a passenger in my son's 1990 Accord yesterday when we felt something like gravel hitting the underside of the car, then a belt started squealing.
We pulled off the road and I could see a belt very frayed - it was in the near right corner as I was facing it.
The dealer says the timing belt went out (my son had it replaced a little over a year ago) and took with it the alternator, the water pump, and something from the bottom of the engine and some seals need replaced.
The car never died or acted strangely at all other than the squeal and the obviously damaged belt - we drove it several blocks and left it at the dealer.
He is giving us an estimate of $700 for repairs, which to me seems very low for all that stuff breaking. I asked him if that belt I could see was the timing belt and he said yes.
My question is - is the timing belt that visible where even I, a mechanical idiot, can see it?
If a timing belt does all that damage, isn't it supposed to BREAK first?
For all 2003 Accord ex v6 owners; Have you guys checked the coolant level on your vehicles? If so have you guys noticed that the coolant is very slowly going low? Over a period of 4-5 weeks I have noticed that the coolant level is consistantly going down but just maybe a few ounces every week. Is this normal?
Get back your son's car from the mechanic ASAP and save a lot of grief and money.
The timing belt 1) isn't visible without removing the timing belt cover, 2) , if it breaks, will stop the engine and you won't be able to re-start it.
The problem sounds as if it was a drive belt pulley that seized (gravelly noise), making the drive belt slide and squeal.
What might just be involved is replacing the pulley and belt for about $150 max including labor.
I'm ruling out the alternator, water pump and a/c compressor (they're all driven by belts connected to the engine) as causes of the problem because if any one of these components fail, most of the time they'll continue spinning freely without destroying the pulley or belts.
A broken timing belt is definitely not the cause of your problems in this case.
1. You have to open the cover before you can see the timing belt. 2. $700 is about right if the repair is done at the Honda dealer. Last year, I had my timing belt job (all belts & water pump) done for my 89 Accord. Total cost a little over 400 bucks. In your case, the alternator costs less than 300 bucks. Yeah, tell me about it. 3. I am curious why the timing belt broke, the water pump & the alternator went too. They should not. Lucky, the valves did not get hit by the pistons. Otherwise, you will be looking at another $2k.
I bought my brand new 89 Accord in 1988. One month later, the coolant in the reservoir completely disappeared. I refilled it. The level went down a bit in a week & stayed there. My guess is I had a bad pre-delivery check with my radiator coolant. The engine was not over heated at the time. My 03 EX-V6 coolant level is O.K. after 1 year.
I think my son may be getting royally taken. I saw the belt that was damaged, and if I could see it while I standing in front of the car and they say it's the timing belt and yet you can't see the timing belt unless you remove a cover .. something is just not right.
I don't think it's the timing belt because you said you were able to drive the car a few blocks to the dealer. If the timing belt breaks, you cannot drive the car at all. I know the early 90s, Honda cars do not have much valve clearance. When the timing belt goes, so go the valves.
my coolant level has been fine. i check my oil every two weeks now too. it stays exactly the same. i JUST figured out that i don't have to press eject to get all 6 CD's to unload - just hit eject for one second until it beeps, and it will spit out all CD's in a row. ditto for loading new ones! love it! now that little trick should have been in the "simple" flip style owners guide instead of the long book owners guide.
The dealer sounds like a crook-had my 97 t belt and all drive belts replaced for around $300 poor memory here-called several dealers and price ranged all way to 550 for those wanting to replace the water pump also.
Stay away from this crook.
Betcha he turns rotors when he changes brake pads also.
I have a 2004 EX V6 M6 coupe. It has 960 miles on it and has been to the dealer twice to resolve a cracking and rattling coming from the headliner at the windshield header. It sounds as though the headliner is binding and flexing side-to-side as the car goes over irregular surfaces, and the sound intensifies when it is about 50 degrees or below. The dealer claims to have reset the headliner and adjusted the trim panels at the A pillars. They say it is fixed, but on my last trip there this past Thursday, I didn't even clear the door of the service bay area when I picked up the car before it began rattling and cracking. Now, I am told that I personally have to show up and replicate the rattle for them. Most annoying. However, a local upholstery shop that I asked to look at it said that improper fitting headliners are a known problem to Honda and that the plastic backing seems to be too stiff. The noise is driving me nuts. Does anyone out here have suggestions or know anything about this sort of problem? How to get Honda to fix it? Any help will be appreciated.
Just bought an 04. The salesman told me to never top off the gas tank. That could cause the check engine light to come on, and a trip to the Honda Dealership to get turned off. Never to go more than a dime after the pump shuts off. Must be pressure related. I usually round off to the nearest quarter. No problems yet.
supposedly causes problems with the emissions system-had most of mine replaced under warranty and have stopped topping off - be out of my pocket now. Took several trips and several parts before they finally got it to function-also think I had a bad gas cap-who knows.
I have a 2003 Accord EX sedan with a rattling sunroof. It rattles when the roof is either open or closed. Is there a cure, without taking it to the dealer for warranty work?
Comments
99% you have worn cups on the outside edges of your rear tires-check and see if you can see the cups. Happens cause you did not rotate your tires often enough-something about fwd cars that cause this to happen-can be in perfect alighnment and still happen. Rotate tires now-remember never ever let someone use a air driven impact wrench to tighten your lug nuts or your disc brake rotors will be warped and that is serious bucks on an older honda.
These tires will behave better on the front but still have a wear pattern-should rotate every 10K or so. Let us know.
You mentioned back a few posts that if you were inspecting a car with sludge, despite the fact that manufacturer's recommendations were followe with maintenance, you would disallow the warranty claim/coverage and take them to court. Not sure how you can make that argument, because in court a lay customer is not going to be charged with responsibility for analyzing and evaluating oil quality, ESPECIALLY where manufacturer recommendations were strictly adhered to.
On the other hand, if I were inspecting a car that had some form of warrantable engine problem, and I found out that the customer expressly diesregarded the recommended oil change interval with the break-in oil, I would disallow the coverage and have a much better case for doing so than in the previous situation.
You could have a potentially dangerous condition such as a tread seperation on one of your tires!
I too was a 3rd generation Honda Accord owner when I purchased my 03 EX V6 Coupe last October and had a year full of squeeks, rattles, warped rotors, bad window trim and the "normal" transmission whining sound (see posts #6097 #6082 #6064). Most of the problems were corrected (I had to pay for the rotors, thanks), however, the transmission problem was handled so poorly by my dealership and Honda America and cost me multiple trips to my dealer, test drives with technicians, time away from work and a near accident on the 101 due to the tranny failing. I purchased this car to NOT have any problems - it finally became more than I wanted to deal with so I got rid of the car last week - traded it in on a new TL. My fingers are crossed hoping that the transmission in the TL, which is a new design, will be at the quality levels Honda was known for.
BTW - I LOVE the TL, no squeeks, no rattles, no engine noise and much smoother ride. Glad I got rid of my crappy old Accord . . .
Best of luck with your '03 . . .
Im surprised you paid for your rotors too.. I have heard multiple stories where people have had problems with their rotors, and they were replaced with no charge.
But, the TL is an awesome car, Im guessing you got the 04.. right? THe old school 03 TL is nice, but isnt that much nicer then the new 03 accord. But the 04 TL is a beautiful car. BEst of luck, sorry Honda disappointed you.
I'm about to take the financial hit myself and trade the sucker in on something else. I'm a real estate agent, so I'm in this car much of the day, and just walking into the garage looking at it depresses me, knowing I have to listen to it all day. I know it would be impossible to sell to a private party, but at this point the peace and quiet of a better-built car would be worth the few thousand bucks I'll lose.
I wish they still made 'em like my little '80 Civic hatchback. That car was a tight little reliable trooper.
Sigh.
How are we as the owner supposed to determine what is adequate service regardless of the type of service? Is an oil change every 500 miles enough. Maybe every other day? Also by your argument if I as the owner consider that the I put very little stress on my vehicle (i.e. cruising at 50 miles per hour in top gear on flat level well maintained roads (middle of Kansas in the fall)) can I choose to extend my oil changes beyond the 10,000 miles and still expect Honda to honour the warranty if I have engine problems? By your argument you should say yes because it is the owner's responsibility to determine what is best for their car and Honda is only a guideline.
By the way. If a consumer did follow a manufacturers' maintenance reccomendations to the tee and there were still warranty issues, the consumer would win every time in court. Do a little research an product liability law and you'll see what I mean. The consumer is acting in good faith, taking due diligence to follow the guidelines set by the manufacturer, and is not negligent in anyway. The consumer has no fault in this case.
Of course, the manual says you should follow the Severe if you Mainly drive in these conditions:
1>Less than 5mi per trip, or in freezing weather, less than 10mi.
2>driving in extremely hot(over 90F) conditions
3>extensive idling or long periods of stop and go driving
4>trailer towing, driving w/ a roof rack, or mountanous conditions
5>driving on muddy, dusty, or deiced roads.
It's like a huge catch-all... I'm sure the roads are dusty in the middle of Kansas in the fall, in the summer it's probably 90F regularly, during the winter, I would guess it snows, so they would probably deice it, and you may be safe during the spring for the 10k...
Just my opinion, but I would say that at least 75% of the people out there should be following the severe....
The part I am concerned about is ABS, do I need to do any thing special to make sure not to damage the ABS modulator or bring on the famous check engine or ABS light, may be disconnect battery!!
I have bleed couple of my old cars before (90 accord, 86 corolla etc) but none had ABS. I do RR first then LF, and LR first then RF crisscross using oem Honda brake fluid. Any suggestions?
Of course with a name like yours, you would bring up the financial hit I took - ;-) I put a lot of miles on my car (32K in 12 months) so the mileage hit was fairly large to begin with. My Acura dealer was giving me a low, low quote ($17K phuleeze) and I managed to negotiate above wholesale but below retail, which I'm OK with. Just like irritatrix's message, I really wouldn't have felt good selling the car to someone directly and I just wanted out of that car ASAP.
And yes, it is the O4 TL. Sweet!!
I've always been a Honda fan and a good customer which really makes me pissed that when I had an issue they failed to acknowledge it and told me my only options are to take them to court or arbitration. I hope they get their act together, especially since I'm in another Honda product.
BTW - I've filed a complaint with National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (www.nhtsa.dot.gov) for Honda's failure to acknowledge that I had a tranny problem which resulted in a tranny failure on a major highway. Hopefully this will result in something positive - I know it made me feel a little better . . .
sftroy
It makes me wonder, though, where you could be and stay on the "normal" schedule. Normal lead me to believe that it would be the great majority of the conditions across the US.
from a 91-95 Legend and 96-98Civic/94-98Intgegra manual.
It sounds like a muffler noise, but it's not.
I believe the tread pattern gets something to do
with it.
You won't hear that thumping noise on a newly paved highway.
The timing belt is located under a cover under all of your other drive belts. Next to the valve cover you should see a plastic cover that goes from the top of the engine to the bottom. There usually is a little grommet that can be removed to see if the cams are turning, if they aren't while the engine is being cranked, the timing belt is busted.
If it ran fine, then not, your other option is possibly an ignition system failure most likely caused by wet components.
perhaps auburn will have more recommendations.
Maybe I'm wrong, so be it.
You're first argument was all I'm concerned with. That the owner of the vehicle is responsible for determining the maintenance intervals of the vehicle regardless of the manufacturers recommendations. You took the side that it is the owner's fault if they don't change the oil sooner than the manufacturer reccommends. I was just asking if the opposite applied also.
But now you are talking about the reality of fighting a big corporation like Honda. You're right it would be hard to win.
But if, (big if) a person had the resources to fight Honda, and they were at least following the Severe service intervals, they would not have any problem winning the case.
I know you'll have a last word you want to get in, but this is my last post on this issue.
Thanks for the good banter.
-----------------------
Re; tblazer & lelandhendrix
By the way Kansas in the Fall was just something I pulled out of my rear. I have no idea what Kansas is like in the fall, I just assumed it was very mild. It made me laugh that we had experts it replying that I was not accurate with my statement.
As well, I have still not yet received the 3 compact disks that were/are trapped in the defective 6-pack stereo unit removed from the car back in July! Apparently, the unit has been traced as far as crossing the border into the US... it must be strapped to the back of a three-legged moose at the rate it is moving across the continent!
Finally, my wife noticed a crack in the rear bumper, just above the left exhaust pipe. It looks as though the vehicle may have been backed into a parking barrier, as the damage is almost completely on the lower surface of the bumper structure, approximately 10 square inches in size. Has anyone reading this had to have damage to the rear bumper repaired yet?
Just like aggie1995, I also don't want to continue this debate, but the above statement that you made is logially and intrincically wrong.
The manufacturer cannot deny coverage simply on the basis of the existence of a symptom. And sludge is only a symptom. If they can link that to the underlying problem, and then to what caused the problem, and finally if they can show that the cause was due to user-negligence, only then can they consider denial of coverage.
Look at the Toyota sludge fiasco. First they tried to blame the owners, then they fessed up that there was an engine design problem. They finally supposedly changed that particular part of the engine and extended warranty coverage to all affected cars.
BTW, you wouldn't need to be as rich as Bill Gates to fight Honda should the scenerio you described happens. I'm sure there will be some lemon or consumer law applicable thru your local BBB.
But I'm here to tell you what to do with your car. You can change your oil everyday if that's what gives you peace of mind.
Too bad the '03 accords don't seem to have the build quality of the '93 accord! At 206k miles my EX auto sedan still turns heads, has no squeaks or rattles, and runs as well as it did when I bought it! You still see these cars everywhere. If honda still made them like this, I'd buy one in a heartbeat!
I hadn't particularly thought of the tires as the source of this noise, but I guess it makes sense that they would be a likely candidate. I took a look at them, and I didn't notice any particular abnormal wear pattern on them (I'm no expert though). They're Bridgestone BTS 70 tires with under 20000 miles on them (warrantied for 70000) and they seem to have plenty of tread left on them. One unusual thing I've noticed though is that the one currently on the back left loses air a bit more rapidly than the other three. For example, if after a month I needed to add a pound or two to the other tires, I might need to add 5 pounds to that one.
In a couple of weeks I'll have the snow tires (Blizzaks) put on for the winter. I'll ask the Firestone dealer to check the present tires over thoroughly to see if anything might be wrong with them. I'll also see whether I hear the same noise with the snow tires on the car.
As far as rotation goes, I usually don't have the all-season tires on for too much more than 6000
miles after getting them re-installed in the spring, so I haven't really bothered with rotating them. Whether the dealer makes some attempt to put them on in a different configuration the following spring I can't really say for sure.
I got one of those lifetime alignment deals when I purchased the tires (it was only a few bucks more than the one-time alignment), and I ask them to check it every time the tires are changed. When this was last done in April the alignment was supposedly ok.
Once I get the snow tires put back on in early December, and have the other ones looked at, I'll post an update.
Thanks again.
We pulled off the road and I could see a belt very frayed - it was in the near right corner as I was facing it.
The dealer says the timing belt went out (my son had it replaced a little over a year ago) and took with it the alternator, the water pump, and something from the bottom of the engine and some seals need replaced.
The car never died or acted strangely at all other than the squeal and the obviously damaged belt - we drove it several blocks and left it at the dealer.
He is giving us an estimate of $700 for repairs, which to me seems very low for all that stuff breaking. I asked him if that belt I could see was the timing belt and he said yes.
My question is - is the timing belt that visible where even I, a mechanical idiot, can see it?
If a timing belt does all that damage, isn't it supposed to BREAK first?
The timing belt 1) isn't visible without removing the timing belt cover, 2) , if it breaks, will stop the engine and you won't be able to re-start it.
The problem sounds as if it was a drive belt pulley that seized (gravelly noise), making the drive belt slide and squeal.
What might just be involved is replacing the pulley and belt for about $150 max including labor.
I'm ruling out the alternator, water pump and a/c compressor (they're all driven by belts connected to the engine) as causes of the problem because if any one of these components fail, most of the time they'll continue spinning freely without destroying the pulley or belts.
A broken timing belt is definitely not the cause of your problems in this case.
Thanks for the information - we'll try to at least pay for whatever was done and nothing more.
It's not your imagination............
I've added coolant twice. Can't figure it out.
Have been checking garage floor and area where
I park at work and no indication of a leak.
Have to arrange for oil change w/ my dealer. Will
inquire about this when I do so and post later.
berbel
2. $700 is about right if the repair is done at the Honda dealer. Last year, I had my timing belt job (all belts & water pump) done for my 89 Accord. Total cost a little over 400 bucks. In your case, the alternator costs less than 300 bucks. Yeah, tell me about it.
3. I am curious why the timing belt broke, the water pump & the alternator went too. They should not. Lucky, the valves did not get hit by the pistons. Otherwise, you will be looking at another $2k.
My guess is I had a bad pre-delivery check with my radiator coolant.
The engine was not over heated at the time.
My 03 EX-V6 coolant level is O.K. after 1 year.
I know the early 90s, Honda cars do not have much valve clearance. When the timing belt goes, so go the valves.
Stay away from this crook.
Betcha he turns rotors when he changes brake pads also.