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Comments
99% you have worn cups on the outside edges of your rear tires-check and see if you can see the cups. Happens cause you did not rotate your tires often enough-something about fwd cars that cause this to happen-can be in perfect alighnment and still happen. Rotate tires now-remember never ever let someone use a air driven impact wrench to tighten your lug nuts or your disc brake rotors will be warped and that is serious bucks on an older honda.
These tires will behave better on the front but still have a wear pattern-should rotate every 10K or so. Let us know.
You mentioned back a few posts that if you were inspecting a car with sludge, despite the fact that manufacturer's recommendations were followe with maintenance, you would disallow the warranty claim/coverage and take them to court. Not sure how you can make that argument, because in court a lay customer is not going to be charged with responsibility for analyzing and evaluating oil quality, ESPECIALLY where manufacturer recommendations were strictly adhered to.
On the other hand, if I were inspecting a car that had some form of warrantable engine problem, and I found out that the customer expressly diesregarded the recommended oil change interval with the break-in oil, I would disallow the coverage and have a much better case for doing so than in the previous situation.
You could have a potentially dangerous condition such as a tread seperation on one of your tires!
I too was a 3rd generation Honda Accord owner when I purchased my 03 EX V6 Coupe last October and had a year full of squeeks, rattles, warped rotors, bad window trim and the "normal" transmission whining sound (see posts #6097 #6082 #6064). Most of the problems were corrected (I had to pay for the rotors, thanks), however, the transmission problem was handled so poorly by my dealership and Honda America and cost me multiple trips to my dealer, test drives with technicians, time away from work and a near accident on the 101 due to the tranny failing. I purchased this car to NOT have any problems - it finally became more than I wanted to deal with so I got rid of the car last week - traded it in on a new TL. My fingers are crossed hoping that the transmission in the TL, which is a new design, will be at the quality levels Honda was known for.
BTW - I LOVE the TL, no squeeks, no rattles, no engine noise and much smoother ride. Glad I got rid of my crappy old Accord . . .
Best of luck with your '03 . . .
Im surprised you paid for your rotors too.. I have heard multiple stories where people have had problems with their rotors, and they were replaced with no charge.
But, the TL is an awesome car, Im guessing you got the 04.. right? THe old school 03 TL is nice, but isnt that much nicer then the new 03 accord. But the 04 TL is a beautiful car. BEst of luck, sorry Honda disappointed you.
I'm about to take the financial hit myself and trade the sucker in on something else. I'm a real estate agent, so I'm in this car much of the day, and just walking into the garage looking at it depresses me, knowing I have to listen to it all day. I know it would be impossible to sell to a private party, but at this point the peace and quiet of a better-built car would be worth the few thousand bucks I'll lose.
I wish they still made 'em like my little '80 Civic hatchback. That car was a tight little reliable trooper.
Sigh.
How are we as the owner supposed to determine what is adequate service regardless of the type of service? Is an oil change every 500 miles enough. Maybe every other day? Also by your argument if I as the owner consider that the I put very little stress on my vehicle (i.e. cruising at 50 miles per hour in top gear on flat level well maintained roads (middle of Kansas in the fall)) can I choose to extend my oil changes beyond the 10,000 miles and still expect Honda to honour the warranty if I have engine problems? By your argument you should say yes because it is the owner's responsibility to determine what is best for their car and Honda is only a guideline.
By the way. If a consumer did follow a manufacturers' maintenance reccomendations to the tee and there were still warranty issues, the consumer would win every time in court. Do a little research an product liability law and you'll see what I mean. The consumer is acting in good faith, taking due diligence to follow the guidelines set by the manufacturer, and is not negligent in anyway. The consumer has no fault in this case.
Of course, the manual says you should follow the Severe if you Mainly drive in these conditions:
1>Less than 5mi per trip, or in freezing weather, less than 10mi.
2>driving in extremely hot(over 90F) conditions
3>extensive idling or long periods of stop and go driving
4>trailer towing, driving w/ a roof rack, or mountanous conditions
5>driving on muddy, dusty, or deiced roads.
It's like a huge catch-all... I'm sure the roads are dusty in the middle of Kansas in the fall, in the summer it's probably 90F regularly, during the winter, I would guess it snows, so they would probably deice it, and you may be safe during the spring for the 10k...
Just my opinion, but I would say that at least 75% of the people out there should be following the severe....
The part I am concerned about is ABS, do I need to do any thing special to make sure not to damage the ABS modulator or bring on the famous check engine or ABS light, may be disconnect battery!!
I have bleed couple of my old cars before (90 accord, 86 corolla etc) but none had ABS. I do RR first then LF, and LR first then RF crisscross using oem Honda brake fluid. Any suggestions?
Of course with a name like yours, you would bring up the financial hit I took - ;-) I put a lot of miles on my car (32K in 12 months) so the mileage hit was fairly large to begin with. My Acura dealer was giving me a low, low quote ($17K phuleeze) and I managed to negotiate above wholesale but below retail, which I'm OK with. Just like irritatrix's message, I really wouldn't have felt good selling the car to someone directly and I just wanted out of that car ASAP.
And yes, it is the O4 TL. Sweet!!
I've always been a Honda fan and a good customer which really makes me pissed that when I had an issue they failed to acknowledge it and told me my only options are to take them to court or arbitration. I hope they get their act together, especially since I'm in another Honda product.
BTW - I've filed a complaint with National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (www.nhtsa.dot.gov) for Honda's failure to acknowledge that I had a tranny problem which resulted in a tranny failure on a major highway. Hopefully this will result in something positive - I know it made me feel a little better . . .
sftroy
It makes me wonder, though, where you could be and stay on the "normal" schedule. Normal lead me to believe that it would be the great majority of the conditions across the US.
from a 91-95 Legend and 96-98Civic/94-98Intgegra manual.
It sounds like a muffler noise, but it's not.
I believe the tread pattern gets something to do
with it.
You won't hear that thumping noise on a newly paved highway.
The timing belt is located under a cover under all of your other drive belts. Next to the valve cover you should see a plastic cover that goes from the top of the engine to the bottom. There usually is a little grommet that can be removed to see if the cams are turning, if they aren't while the engine is being cranked, the timing belt is busted.
If it ran fine, then not, your other option is possibly an ignition system failure most likely caused by wet components.
perhaps auburn will have more recommendations.
Maybe I'm wrong, so be it.
You're first argument was all I'm concerned with. That the owner of the vehicle is responsible for determining the maintenance intervals of the vehicle regardless of the manufacturers recommendations. You took the side that it is the owner's fault if they don't change the oil sooner than the manufacturer reccommends. I was just asking if the opposite applied also.
But now you are talking about the reality of fighting a big corporation like Honda. You're right it would be hard to win.
But if, (big if) a person had the resources to fight Honda, and they were at least following the Severe service intervals, they would not have any problem winning the case.
I know you'll have a last word you want to get in, but this is my last post on this issue.
Thanks for the good banter.
-----------------------
Re; tblazer & lelandhendrix
By the way Kansas in the Fall was just something I pulled out of my rear. I have no idea what Kansas is like in the fall, I just assumed it was very mild. It made me laugh that we had experts it replying that I was not accurate with my statement.
As well, I have still not yet received the 3 compact disks that were/are trapped in the defective 6-pack stereo unit removed from the car back in July! Apparently, the unit has been traced as far as crossing the border into the US... it must be strapped to the back of a three-legged moose at the rate it is moving across the continent!
Finally, my wife noticed a crack in the rear bumper, just above the left exhaust pipe. It looks as though the vehicle may have been backed into a parking barrier, as the damage is almost completely on the lower surface of the bumper structure, approximately 10 square inches in size. Has anyone reading this had to have damage to the rear bumper repaired yet?
Just like aggie1995, I also don't want to continue this debate, but the above statement that you made is logially and intrincically wrong.
The manufacturer cannot deny coverage simply on the basis of the existence of a symptom. And sludge is only a symptom. If they can link that to the underlying problem, and then to what caused the problem, and finally if they can show that the cause was due to user-negligence, only then can they consider denial of coverage.
Look at the Toyota sludge fiasco. First they tried to blame the owners, then they fessed up that there was an engine design problem. They finally supposedly changed that particular part of the engine and extended warranty coverage to all affected cars.
BTW, you wouldn't need to be as rich as Bill Gates to fight Honda should the scenerio you described happens. I'm sure there will be some lemon or consumer law applicable thru your local BBB.
But I'm here to tell you what to do with your car. You can change your oil everyday if that's what gives you peace of mind.
Too bad the '03 accords don't seem to have the build quality of the '93 accord! At 206k miles my EX auto sedan still turns heads, has no squeaks or rattles, and runs as well as it did when I bought it! You still see these cars everywhere. If honda still made them like this, I'd buy one in a heartbeat!
I hadn't particularly thought of the tires as the source of this noise, but I guess it makes sense that they would be a likely candidate. I took a look at them, and I didn't notice any particular abnormal wear pattern on them (I'm no expert though). They're Bridgestone BTS 70 tires with under 20000 miles on them (warrantied for 70000) and they seem to have plenty of tread left on them. One unusual thing I've noticed though is that the one currently on the back left loses air a bit more rapidly than the other three. For example, if after a month I needed to add a pound or two to the other tires, I might need to add 5 pounds to that one.
In a couple of weeks I'll have the snow tires (Blizzaks) put on for the winter. I'll ask the Firestone dealer to check the present tires over thoroughly to see if anything might be wrong with them. I'll also see whether I hear the same noise with the snow tires on the car.
As far as rotation goes, I usually don't have the all-season tires on for too much more than 6000
miles after getting them re-installed in the spring, so I haven't really bothered with rotating them. Whether the dealer makes some attempt to put them on in a different configuration the following spring I can't really say for sure.
I got one of those lifetime alignment deals when I purchased the tires (it was only a few bucks more than the one-time alignment), and I ask them to check it every time the tires are changed. When this was last done in April the alignment was supposedly ok.
Once I get the snow tires put back on in early December, and have the other ones looked at, I'll post an update.
Thanks again.
We pulled off the road and I could see a belt very frayed - it was in the near right corner as I was facing it.
The dealer says the timing belt went out (my son had it replaced a little over a year ago) and took with it the alternator, the water pump, and something from the bottom of the engine and some seals need replaced.
The car never died or acted strangely at all other than the squeal and the obviously damaged belt - we drove it several blocks and left it at the dealer.
He is giving us an estimate of $700 for repairs, which to me seems very low for all that stuff breaking. I asked him if that belt I could see was the timing belt and he said yes.
My question is - is the timing belt that visible where even I, a mechanical idiot, can see it?
If a timing belt does all that damage, isn't it supposed to BREAK first?
The timing belt 1) isn't visible without removing the timing belt cover, 2) , if it breaks, will stop the engine and you won't be able to re-start it.
The problem sounds as if it was a drive belt pulley that seized (gravelly noise), making the drive belt slide and squeal.
What might just be involved is replacing the pulley and belt for about $150 max including labor.
I'm ruling out the alternator, water pump and a/c compressor (they're all driven by belts connected to the engine) as causes of the problem because if any one of these components fail, most of the time they'll continue spinning freely without destroying the pulley or belts.
A broken timing belt is definitely not the cause of your problems in this case.
Thanks for the information - we'll try to at least pay for whatever was done and nothing more.
It's not your imagination............
I've added coolant twice. Can't figure it out.
Have been checking garage floor and area where
I park at work and no indication of a leak.
Have to arrange for oil change w/ my dealer. Will
inquire about this when I do so and post later.
berbel
2. $700 is about right if the repair is done at the Honda dealer. Last year, I had my timing belt job (all belts & water pump) done for my 89 Accord. Total cost a little over 400 bucks. In your case, the alternator costs less than 300 bucks. Yeah, tell me about it.
3. I am curious why the timing belt broke, the water pump & the alternator went too. They should not. Lucky, the valves did not get hit by the pistons. Otherwise, you will be looking at another $2k.
My guess is I had a bad pre-delivery check with my radiator coolant.
The engine was not over heated at the time.
My 03 EX-V6 coolant level is O.K. after 1 year.
I know the early 90s, Honda cars do not have much valve clearance. When the timing belt goes, so go the valves.
Stay away from this crook.
Betcha he turns rotors when he changes brake pads also.