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Bring to Honda dealer. It took over 8 hours before they finally said it was the wheel bearing and spindle. I then decide to change it for $550. Both front end wear out, I was told.
Dealer took a whole day to do the work, told me there is no part of one of the two recall I am also doing in the same dealership, so I continue to drive the loaner.
Second day, dealer call, and said the parts were changed but the noise did not go away. so there will be no charge for the wheel bearings. However, I need to change transmission. Because that is where the problem is. It will cost me about $1800 for a re-manufactured transmission.
My 2001 Accord did receive a 100,000 miles transmission warranty from Honda, but not the 1998. I am not sure if they are the same transmission. (2001 is a V6 coupe)
Honda hold value well, so my car is still worth 7k to 8k on paper (blue book or edmund), but what I can actually sell for, is a different story. To spend 2k to change a used transmission, is hard for me to decide. And the dealer call, want their bearing back. so I have them change my old ones back.
Any comment or input on this is appreciated.
Only go to the Honda dealer if you aren't very fond of your money.
do a search on brake problems here - you will see. and yes, my rear rotors are just as poor quality as my front rotors. but i can't offer advice on aftermarket parts - never used them.
good luck!
At about 65,000 mile I had the Honda dealer in my home town (not the dealer that I purchased the car new from) change out my brake fluid for $75 - a 36 month service item according to the owner's manual - page 224.
At 35,000 miles I took it to the original purchase Honda dealer (not in my home town) for brake pedal pulsation when braking at highway speeds. The dealer's tech told me that it is right at the Honda spec limit for run-out. He then put the rotors through one fine finishing pass on the brake lathe (skipping the coarse cut) to remove a very small amount of metal and the problem was gone. (The Honda dealer performed this for me under warranty.)
Well now at 68,000 miles the brake pedal pulsation problem when braking at highway speeds came back. I took it to the Honda dealer in my home town (not where I purchased the car) and they told me that there is not enough metal on rotors to cut them more than once and mine would have to be replaced. I asked them to measure the rotors since they only had one fine finishing cut and they came back and told me that they measured but there is not enough metal. Their estimate for a brake job was $311 for new front rotors and pads, and $146 for rear pads. They told me that the factory original front pads are half worn but when rotors are replaced the pads should also get replaced regardless of the condition of the pads. They told me that the factory original rear pads are 80% gone with only a 20% service life left.
For reference - I almost always downshift when braking so that may explain why I still have 50% of pad life remaining on the front tires after 68,000 miles. For example, when I exit the interstate I always downshift from 5th gear directly down to 3rd skipping 4th gear. When I come to a complete stop I almost always "finish off" my braking with the parking brakes from less than 5 MPH to a complete stop. This way the very hot front brake pads do not compress the front rotors at one spot while they are not rotating. This use of the parking brakes is why my rear pads are 80% gone.
I went home and I measured the rotors with a simple straight ruler. The rotors have "21 MM minimum" stamped on them - I eyeballed them as having about 23.5 mm with my ruler. The thing that scares me the most about letting this particular Honda dealer in my home town (not where I purchased my Honda) do my brakes is that once the car is up in the air they might come in and tell me "you need new calipers" so their $457 estimated brake job is now costing me about $1,000!
With the money that I saved by doing my own brake job ($17 for rear pads vs. $146 at the Honda dealer) I was able to purchase some tools that would help me do a very professional job. I purchased a 3/8" drive ratchet head micrometer adjustable torque wrench for about $60 that has a plastic molded case to protect it at Home Depot, and other tools like an impact screw driver for $20 (my 1998-1999 Hanes Honda Accord manual shows a picture of a guy using an impact hand hammer on a disc retaining screw - page 9-8) and a very long 3/8" socket breaker bar for about $10; and from grizzly.com I bought a magnetic base, .001" dial indicator, .001" dial caliper combo with a plastic molded case for about $37 delivered.
When I twisted the caliper pistons in the rears back in and pushed the pistons in the front back in I opened the bleeder screws so as not to push the brake fluid out of the master cylinder. The brake fluid coming out of the calipers was very, very dark. Not at all like the light amber colored DOT 3 brake fluid that I purchased brand new to bleed the brakes with. (The master cylinder says on it to use only DOT 3 brake fluid.) So I wonder about the $75 brake fluid change that the Honda dealer "performed" for me 3,000 miles ago. Is is normal for new brake fluid to turn this color after only 3,000 miles? I know it is normal for new engine oil to turn much darker after a few hundred miles. Just a thought.
I torqued the rear caliper bolts to 19 ft-lbs, the front caliper sliding bolts to 54 ft-lbs and the front caliper mounting bracket bolts to 80 ft-lbs. The sliding bolts at the front are marked "G" and "L" - the "G" bolts go on the bottom-most slide. I cleaned the sliding bolts and relubed with high temperature brake lube. The anti-rattle clips clean very nicely and quickly with a dry small narrow brass brush.
I decided to buy new NAPA cheap China rotors for $41.50 and then had the original factory rotors cut for $14 each. This way on the next two brake jobs I will have good rotors to put in and will not have to depend an anybody to provide me with transportation while my car is up on jacks.
When I took the rotors to the machine shop they measured the thickness and they told me there is plenty of metal to resurface. The condition of these factory original rotors coming off the car was mirror smooth with no gauging whatsoever. I cleaned off all of the rust and dirt inside where it meets the hub with a drill and wire wheel so that when the rotors are trued on the brake lathe they will not be cut with any "built in" run-out. After resurfacing I measured them and there is now about 22.5 mm of metal left - prolly not enough to cut on the next brake job. I then coated the cut surface with singer 3 in 1 machine oil and wrapped them in plastic and put them in the new rotor's box and sealed with wide plastic tape and put them in storage flat side down with nothing else sitting on top.
I put NAPA $39 ceramic pads in the front (lifetime warranty) but the rear NAPA ceramic pads cost $53 so I went with the regular NAPA pads on the rears for $17. The brake cleaner spray cans where on sale for $1.67 so I bought two. (I only used 1/2 can though.)
So far there is no brake squeal nor any brake pulsation problems of any kind. Before I replaced these front disc rotors I was getting a little bit of vibration as I was nudging the steering wheel in either direction to make the high speed turns and lane changes on the interstate highways. (I was also getting pulsation when braking at highway speeds.) Now I have a smoother steering wheel - prolly since I no longer have warped rotors "pulsating" the brake pistons as I make these low arc turns on the interstate highways.
Now that I have a torque wrench I will be torquing my wheel lug nuts to 80 ft-lbs. after any shop works on my car. So for example, when I get my wheels spin balanced and rotated I will drive straight home and back up the lug nuts and then torque 'em to 80 ft-lbs.
Can anybody tell me if I got ripped off by the Honda dealer on the $75 change of brake fluid?
Thank you.
Yes, it is always better to over maintain a car than to under maintain one, but you try to give advice when you have no actual experience maintaining the cars you drive for any significant time or miles. As you have stated, you always get rid of cars before 7 years or 100,000 miles. I and many others on this board know you can keep cars twice as long without spending significant amounts of money if you buy a quality car and follow the maker's maintenance schedual.
Lastly, rarely if ever would a car repair shop use Honda brakes. They buy parts wholesale from majors stores like NAPA. I prefer Car Quest never squeal pads. They are garranteed for life and they absolutely will not squeal, all for about 50 bucks.
I'm not trying to be personal, but your insight just doesn't always add up when it comes to maintenance on cars. So yes I will chime in when you make a statement that makes no mechanical sense.
Here is some brake information for you to consider when performing your own brake jobs.
Disk Brake noise can be caused by a number of different factors:
1.) The pad edges engaging the rotor can cause a "chatter / vibration and noise".
2.) There can be a "vibration" of the rotor, pads and / or the steel backing plates.
3.) The Caliper piston can vibrate against the brake pad steel backing plate.
4.) Rusted steel backing plates can cause a noise.
On the drum side of the issue, "squealing" could be caused by a number of things.
1.) Brake dust in the drums.
2.) Low quality linings
3.) Hard linings
5.) Distorted brake shoes
6.) Distorted backing plate
7.) Broken & weak brake shoe return springs
8.) Saturated linings
The "bottom line" is simple. The brake system on any vehicle is a complex system. The manufacturer designed the components and the brake material as a unit. If a mechanic introduces an aftermarket brake pad or shoe, this may or may not be compatible with the system.
IMPORTANT NOTE: ----When I trade my Accord in at 100,000 miles, are you interested in the vehicle? You know it is well mainatined by the dealer.
As a "side bar story" I tried using regular fuel / name brand ,(87 octane), for two months, (July and August). The brand of choice were: ---Hess, BP, Getty, and Shell. During this period of time I used about 200 gallons of fuel. (I do a lot of highway driving). I did not like the performance of the engine, so I went back to the 92 / 93 octane fuel. I especially did not like the performance of the engine under "hard acceleration" coming out of a toll booth.------ ( Usually, I like to keep up with the V8 Ford Mustangs with my 4 cylinder Accord). (Just kidding)!!!! But years ago, I "blew the doors off" a V8 stick Mustang, with a 1995 V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee. There was a very surprised look on the driver's face, when the Jeep stayed with him out of the toll booth. Too bad the speed limit was 65 mph. It would have been interesting to see the two vehicles at top end.
As for Honda brake pads, they are better than any pads on the market(fit and performance) for a Honda and at most dealers come with a lifetime replacement warranty.
Although I love the way my Accord handles, I am so disappointed. I wanted a manual transmission, had to wait a month for it, and have experienced several problems:
1. Door and other assorted rattles, already described
2. Leak discovered during routine oil change that resulted in replacement of rack and pinion - glad that dealer discovered the problem - according to service manager, this occurs rarely. No related problems since.
3. Engine light came on twice for unknown reasons at less than 2K - first time, it worked the next time I started the car - second time, the dealership explained that something needed to be reprogrammed - haven't had a problem since.
4. Brakes - don't know what's wrong, except that the car shimmies when braking at higher speeds, for example, when exiting the freeway. I generally downshift, so use brakes minimally - I'm wondering if this is a rear drum issue as described in other postings.
5. Driver's seat - it's loose. The seat shifts when I accelerate from a stop or brake.
6. Clutch pedal - clicks intermittently.
7. First gear hesitation - I really have to give it some gas in first gear when accelerating from a complete stop or else the car hesitates; after that, it's fine (note this is not due to my lack of driving skills).
8. This is picky, but how difficult can it be to design a glove box with a door that closes and seals so the glove box light doesn't glow through the crack at night? The dealership repositioned the foam tape, but did a lousy job, so it's worse than ever. I can take care of this one, but still... and what about that trunk? Unless the car is completely level, if you open the trunk when the car is wet, water drips into it... who designed this stuff?
My car is headed for the shop Wednesday for a routine oil change, seat repair, door rattle and brake review. I'll keep you posted.
The reason your car didn't drive as well is it was used to premium. Once you break a car in with it, it just will not run right most of the time when you go back to regular. I garrantee if you had never started using it, you would never know the difference in a car that doesn't require it.
If you didn't run premium in your cars, I would buy them in a heartbeat. Next to mine, I would say they are the best maintained cars out there. I'll be off the board for the next couple of days. We have been ordered (Active Air Force)to evacuate here in Ft. Walton Beach Florida, so I'm on the way to Tennessee in the morning.
Maybe the residue left by the higher octane fuels has increased the compression ratios so that it will take a while for the combustion chamber to clear of the buildup before it will run as designed.
Take it out on a good highway run for a few hundred miles and drive it like a hot rod with regular in it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They made it as convenient as any work I've ever had done at a shop. They had 4 customers at once for the tranny recall (3 Accords 1 Pilot, I think.)
They gave us all rentals, paid for by Honda. The whole deal was absolutely no problem. Another dealer closer to me would have done the work, but I would not have gotten a loaner or rental, because I did'nt buy from them.
as we all know, for Gen 7, Honda can't even claim to get average performance and longevity out of their pads and rotors. they even "redesigned" their own pads 3 months after the Accord was released for Gen 7. Honda brakes are made at the lowest cost possible without offending the U.S. Government.
why do you think they tout the Brembo brake package on the TL? if their brakes were good enough, they wouldn't need non-OEM suppliers handling the braking for their vehicles. if their repuation was so great, people would say "uh, i won't buy the car with those awful aftermarket Brembo's on it". don't think that is said by any Acura buyers
lets get a grip on reality. Honda might make some decent engines (if they don't leak oil and catch fire), and they handle pretty well, and (with Gen 7 anyway) they look darn good, and they have a kick-you-know-what climate control system, and eventually they will work out the kinks in the 5 speed auto (about the time even Kia starts using 6 speed auto's, but hey), BUT THEY APPEAR TO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BRAKES. sad but true.
As for Honda brake pads, they are better than any pads on the market(fit and performance) for a Honda and at most dealers come with a lifetime replacement warranty.
(I have no opinion on this, I'm just responding to whitecloud's query about who stated this.)
if i could get over my mental block about spending money on a "warranty" item, i would seriously try some aftermarket parts. just not sure i could sleep at night though.
my opinion - no one has to agree. you can love Honda brakes as much as i loathe them
I got rid of my 03 Accord due to the continually crappy brakes. I would therefore never say that Honda brakes are better than aftermarket.
Enjoy your defect-free cars and quit with the blame game.
I guess, nobody has found a fix for this yet?
I didn't just "not like" the brakes. First, after two weeks of ownership, they made a terrible grinding noise and skipped. Meaning that, if I were coming down an incline (like in a parking garage), they would initially stop the car, but then the grip would loosen and the car would skip forward, all while I maintained consistent pressure on the brake pedal. Very scary.
At 3k, the rotors warped and they machined them. At 7k, the rotors rewarped and they replaced all four, plus all four pads. At 12k, the brakes started shimmying again when pressed at higher speeds.
Whatever the problem was, the dealer and Honda Corp couldn't fix it. They did try, but nothing worked.
Honda Corp was much more understanding about the problems than some on this board. The reps never suggested that the problems were caused by my driving. And they acknowledged that the problem was not isolated to just a few Accords.
the "problem: is that they vibrate when you press the brake pedal. Honda calls is "judder" for some reason. i personally think it is a mix of poor materials, and not enough braking surface for such high weight cars. again, why do professional car guys keep mention poor brakes/stopping distances for Honda models? why would Honda/Acura feel the need to address that with aftermarket components like Brembo? they know their weaknesses, they just don't want to admit them in public.
i was reading my local (but nationwide paper) today that was discussing that very fact with regard to Honda. not related to Accord, but shows Honda's attitude about problems: blame the dealer or driver, not the manufacturer. the NHTSA has REOPENED a certain investigation relating to engine fires on Honda's. heres a blurb:
[The problem, which has lit up online Honda chat groups, aims at the heart of Honda's reputation as one of the safest and most consumer-friendly of car companies, said Bob Kurilko, an auto marketing expert at Edmunds.com. "The publicity of a [possible] forced recall is not good, especially for Honda, because they have a pristine reputation and want to manage that and protect it," he said. "Honda acting quickly could jump in front of this thing and just initiate a voluntary recall, and I think they're going to want to do that before NHTSA forces them."
But Boyd, the Honda spokesman, said the company believes a recall would be counterproductive based on current understanding of the problem.
Recalling the vehicles to replace oil filters "wouldn't accomplish anything," he said. "You'd still have a certain percentage having an oil leak or fire. It's not that different than the issue running its course."]
i just wish Honda would pull a Bill Clinton and FINALLY admit everything
I feel real sorry for those of you that can't stand your cars for whatever reason. And I feel sorry that you can't come up with the $$$ to get rid of them. But I do live in the real world where crap happens. They don't make perfect anything. Go to any forum on Edmunds and you will find a certain couple of people claiming that the entire run of a certain vehicle is bad because thiers sucks. Without fail.
I guess we might as well walk. But then with that kind of luck, you might get a bad pair of shoes.
As far as the CR-V situation, why would Honda(the manufacturer) do anything when they aren't causing the fires. If it is found that all CR-V's are catching on fire due to incorrect oil filter installation then that is not Honda's fault. If it is found that there are those that are spontaneously combusting on their own, then Honda should be taken to task. It's just like driving. If you can't drive and you hit a tree, don't blame Honda's brakes for not stopping you in time. I really don't think Honda would not fix the cars if they knew a solution. The liabilty potential of this is immense. If someones little bundle of joy burns up in a CR-V and it is found Honda was covering up a cure, they would have a new owner when the courts finished with them. They've done much larger recalls for much smaller problems.
or something like that.
if thats what you expect, then your "real world" is a place i gotta try out for an hour or so!
It's always this way, Justin, with the personal attack. He doth protest too greatly.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,