"Show me any midsize car offered for $25000 or less that has NO complaints about some kind of wierd noise, rattle electrical problem, etc."
The Mazda 6 seems to be poised to inheirit the mantle of "almost perfect car" unless you consider a sunglass holder rattle that can be fixed by simply opening and closing it a few times a major problem. I know the Accord has growing pains but the 6 seems to have these pains down to a minimum.
Man do I wish the Accord vs. 6 was still up because if the situation was reversed us 6 owners would never hear the end of it. Perhaps Honda rushed the 2003 into production to simply offset pressure caused by the new Altima. Let's be honest folks based on these boards the new Accord has issues. If I was still looking for a new car I would be pretty concerned about this car based on what I've seen here and please don't say that there are more problems because more are being sold because this site tends to attract more car enthusiasts so I would venture to guess that the gap between Accord and 6 owners is much lower than the real world. The # of posts on the Mazda board is almost as high as the Honda board, pretty good considering this car is only a few months old.
Sounds like you have mice near where you park your car and they have found the perfect home-eliminate their food source if you can and they go away. They also can chew up upholstry, wires and all manner of things. Maybe consider a cat in your garage or Decon.
Left food in trunk on a camping trip and they found a way in and made a real mess.
"I know the Accord has growing pains but the 6 seems to have these pains down to a minimum."
The Mazda6 hasn't passed the 10,000 sales mark yet. So it has owners "down to the minimum" also. How do they compare to the Accord which sells that many in less than a week. And even more impressive is that they sell most of them to actual people than any other model in the segment. The reason the Mazda board has so many postings is that the Mazda6 people only have 1 board and they talk about the Accord as much as the Mazda6. The Accord forums are divided into many subsections.
The lack of posts here for a car that sells so well is more telling than anything. I for one don't expect every Honda to roll down the assembly line perfect but considering the mass production of the car if there were even 5% of the last few years production with problems Edmunds would be over loaded.
In 98 there was no gremlins like this: rattles and cars dieing when the 6th generation Accord came out. After the transmission debacle at Acura I would think Honda would want to avoid any bad scrutiny again. The rattles and cars dieing does not preserve the image they had in the 80's and 90's. Taking the double wishibone out of the Civic was a bad move because drivers were complaining of a rough ride in the 2001+ Civic's. As for Honda rushing production because of the Altima thats a cop out. The Altima doesn't have the name the Accord has. As a longtime Honda follower and an Acura owner it makes me suspicious because of what has happened in the 00's Civic's, Accords, and TL-S's. Honda has watered its down styling after in my opinion only Chrysler made more appealing cars than Honda did in the 90's. Honda is not being smart. Their customers have patience I'll give them that but in the long run this could hurt Honda.
Sounds like your ignition switch is going bad. The electrical portion can be replaced as a stand alone to save some money. They tend to burn out and when they do they act as you have discribed..
popular as it is now. The age of the internet is upon us. The 90-93 earlier Accords had issues too. Emissions warranty on the ignition system and I know the automatic Accords I've driven vibrated and had harsh shifting transmissions. Transmissions never broke but they sure did jarr you every now and then. It's just a characteristic of the car.
It's very easy and popular to log on and get your beef on now.
"The Mazda 6 hasn't passed the 10000 sales mark yet. So it has "owners down to the minimum" also".
Well that may be true in North America but it sure isn't true everywhere else in the world. The 6 is a hot seller in Europe and Asia where they have been out over a year and they report the same problems that are in N.A. Pretty much nothing! Check out www.Mazdaatenza.com. and all you get are the owners there gushing about their car. Give credit where credit is due. BTW I am a real 6 owner.
Try and comfort the next Accord owner whose car cuts out on the highway with all the impressive sales #'s. If Honda has that same attitude then they should remember 2 words "Ford Taurus". A shooting star in sales that crashed and burned.
I think the tranny flush has taken care of my shudder problem. I haven't felt it for over a week now. Looks like over filled with Dextron 3 was the culprit after all. This problem was created by a shop I thought I could trust to know better. I just hope no permanent damage was done. Teaches me to be more careful in the future! Now I just hope the place that diagnosed the tranny are right about the $450 motor mount job they are going to do to fix my noise. I want to thank everyone again for the help and support I have been given on this site. May you enjoy a safe and joyful St. Patrick's Day.
Maybe you are a bit biased and maybe this is the wrong place for this post. But here goes anyway. I am currently looking at getting a new car. I am a family guy , wife and a nine year old. We are trying to decide between a Honda LX and a Toyota LE . Have driven both and each seem like quality cars with different personalities. My question is should I be a little wary of all this posts about the problems in the new Accords? The one I test drove definitely pulled to the right and after reading some of the posts about that problem it made me wonder. Maybe you don't want to comment but are you seeing a lot of problems? Or is this fairly normal? Should I wait for the Second Year model?
I have owned about 5 Mazdas and have been very happy in general, but none have been problem free. Toyota has had issues with the Camry, the sludge issue, and various other problems. Mazda and Honda have also had issues in the past and present. We can wait to see what Consumer Reports says about the 2003 models next year. Mazda will have to improve over the 626 which for the most part was rated as average for much of its 9 year life (last generation), while the Accord will have to slip from much better than average. I had 2 626s and they were reasonably good. I also have a 2003 Accord and this is without a doubt the best car I have owned (my first Accord). No problems at all to report.
I'm not saying every new Accord is a lemon. I just get the impression that alot of people on this board are in denial about the car. There are numerous complaints but it seems there is an attitude that "Oh well it's a Honda and alot of people buy them so it must just be growing pains" A car cutting out on the highway whether due to faulty fuel sensors or otherwise is 1 problem too many. I'm surprised these people lived to tell about it. There's a double edged sword to the high sales #'s in that who knows how many people have had problems like this who don't know this site even exists. Anybody person I talk with has no clue what "Edmunds.com is".
Say that this board represents 1\1000th of the buying public. If a few owners on this board have the cars die while driving and steering drift that's alot of people who encounter it in the real world. Something to think about especially when you have kids in the car.
If Honda dealers are arrogant as they appear to be from postings here then a couple of years from now no one will be bragging about Accord sales #'s. I think Honda is starting to get the attitude "it doesn't matter what we put out there just make it as fast as the competitors and it'll sell on reputation.The same attitude Ford had with the Taurus. I guess only time will tell.
My 01 LX throttle has been sticking when started for the first time of the day and also when parked long enough to cool down between starts.
As documented by someone on this forum, I believe it was Auburn63, I broke out the throttlebody cleaner and toothbrush and cleaned away the black goop on the throttle plate and that cured the problem. I guess I should make this part of my 60K maintenance routine, as I have been putting this off for a while.
I'm currently @89K+ miles and I plan to replace the plugs soon with copper NGK ZFR5F-11. Has anyone else changed from the plats to copper on their I-4. The engine still starts quickly and runs smoothly, but 90K is a nice round number to remember.
Other than a few intermittent rattles that I've had since day 1, this car has been remarkable to this point.
I put Bridgestone Turanza LS-H on the front @81K and am very pleased with the improvement in wet traction and quietness on rough concrete.
How about it, can anyone top 89K miles on an 01 model?
How long does the press test the car? A couple of weeks at most if that. Most of the time it's 1 day. Are you saying people who have the drifting problem knew it when they test drove the car and bought it anyway? I know I sure wouldn't. Problems tend to creep up after several months of use and I wouldn't feel too comfortable with long term use if so many things are cropping up so soon after the car's release. But I guess it should be swept under the rug like everything else.
I just find it amusing that when the new 6 and Altima came out alot of warnings were issued on some boards about buyer beware, brand new model wait until it's 2nd or 3rd year of production when they get all the bugs out. This apparently did not include the 2003 Accord as many posts stated that it's "Honda" they're always reliable, doesn't apply. Now when problems arise the excuse being used is it's a new model, teething pains et al. Sounds pretty convenient.
"I think Honda is starting to get the attitude "it doesn't matter what we put out there just make it as fast as the competitors and it'll sell on reputation.The same attitude Ford had with the Taurus. I guess only time will tell."
From the accolades that the new Accord is getting from nearly everyone, this is obviously not true.
As far as the engine dying on the highway is concerned, sure, that's not great for the person to whom it happened, but let's not go off the deep end and turn an isolated report into an epidemic. There's nothing out there to warrant that... it's just promoting FUD.
One interesting thing about the drifting... to my knowledge, there hasn't been a single report about that from the press despite all of the testing that's been done. Perhaps it too isn't the epidemic that some are assuming it is. I'm not trying to say that these aren't problems... they most certainly are. But if some members of the Accord forum are "in denial", going to the opposite extreme with unwarranted conjecture is certainly no better.
No matter what the market. Additionally the Mazda6's in other markets have features and engines that aren't available here. So a fair comparison would be pretty difficult.
If a couple months production of the Accord may have had a few bugs that equates to a possible 60,000 Accords that may have a higher defect rate than usual. But if the same thing happens to the Mazda6, hey they only sold like 2000 in the first two months. To have a defect rate you have to put a few on the road. It's just not happening. Additionally the Mazda6's overseas are built over there. Ours are built here in the U.S. Just like the Focus, it can make a world of difference.
Consumer Reports tests cars for far longer than one day. And I know from reading C&D that their comparison reports take weeks to complete. So your "one day" statement is not accurate.
I'm not saying that the people who are reporting drifting problems knew about them before they took delivery. But they may not have noticed it during their test drive... some things can be quite subtle, and a test drive doesn't reveal everything about a car. So I'll remain curious about the lack of press on this... if you disagree, fine, that's your right.
I'm not suggesting "sweeping it under the rug". But implying that this issue is some kind of harbinger of the demise of Honda quality is really pushing it to an extreme that the circumstances are far from warranting.
Gee35: So it's unfair to compare the 6 to it's Japanese counterpart but's it's fair to compare the 03 Accord to the previous generation for reliability.(huh) Are the 6 parts' dumbed down for the N.A. market?
Isn't the Accord built here? I guess that would make a world of difference as well to their quality.
talon95: CR does do an more indepth study but they base reliabilty on long term usage. Many cars they test have circles change color over time because they can only truly determine the car's quality after several years. The new protege had average ratings when it first came but changed to above average after 2 years based on data. New 1st year models are generally rated based on previous model history because it's impossible to do otherwise.
"New 1st year models are generally rated based on previous model history because it's impossible to do otherwise."
That's true, but that didn't stop them from saying that based on previous models, they expect the new Accord to be much better than average in reliability. I can just about guarantee you that this drifting problem will not change that, and that it will be fixed.
I could go thru the board and list them all but it will take too long and it's time to go to bed.
To tell you the truth CR is taking an educated guess and they would be the first ones to admit that it's not an exact science. I would take real world situations that are contained here than a magazine. Sorry!
My 2002 accord coupe 4cyl ex w/leather started to vibrate during idling. When I bought it, the car was so smooth that I couldnt tell if the engine is running or not. Now, my steering wheel, brake peddles vibrates when the car is not in motion. My car doesnt vibrate all that much when it is in park, but when I put it in D4, that is when it starts to vibrate. What is the problem with my car. Sorry, I dont have time to read over 4000 to look for answers. Please help. This is my first car and I love it. I want to preserve it for as long as possible. Thanks in advance
I know that drifting isn't the only issue. I'm referencing that one because it seems to be the most widely reported issue. And unlike the "engine dying on the highway" report, it's one that appears to be more than just an isolated incident.
Based on past experience, I can just about guarantee that all of these issues will be addressed. They are new design teething issues, just about all new designs have them, and they don't speak to overall reliability. Despite Honda's well deserved reputation for reliability, even they aren't immune to this. This type of issue existed in the first model year of the previous generation Accord, and that didn't stop that car from turning out to be top ranked for reliability. I'm confident that the same will be true for this generation of Accord.
I'm still going to stand by my position that, if the press hasn't reported on it at all, while the drifting may not be isolated, it may also not be widespread. Nothing at all has been said to make me change that position. I agree that the real life reports here are of more importance than a predicted reliability score by a magazine. Where I have an issue is when these typical teething problems are trumped up as "proof" that the new Accord has overall quality problems.
talon95: I respect your input and knowledge on this subject and I honestly enjoy verbally sparring with you on this but your last few comments seems to illustrate my point about the "in denial" perception.
There are more than a average amount of "teething" problems on the 2003. Some seem to be serious and some not. Teething or no teething when you compare it to the Mazda 6 which seems to be not exhibiting these "growing pains" then you may be setting yourself up for a fall. Honda does have a great reputation but it seems they were sloppy in the development of the car. If these problems get worse over time, don't kid yourself those who use to swear by an Accord will jump off the bandwagon real quick and hop on a Camry, 6 or Altima before you know it. The midsize market is way too competitive to be screwing around with your product. Even Hyundai is a contender now, who woulda thunk it 5 years ago.
The lack of press on this is nothing new. The Dodge Caravan IMO is a lemon, everybody I know who has one have always had numerous problems with it yet it still is the #1 seller due to the fact that it is still cheaper than the superior Odyssey and Sienna. But all you hear in the press is about the Caravan being the #1 selling van in N.A. and not the reliabilty problems. The Accord does not have that going for them. Prices for midsize cars are all pretty similar for various packages. Don't get me wrong I'm not calling the Accord a lemon by any means or comparing it to the Caravan, the Accord is still a great car for the price but there is very little room for error due to the competition and allegiances can change very quickly. Don't underestimate the fickleness of the consumer. Something Honda should consider as well as they consider reliability and build quality the selling point of this car and their trump card!
When I first perused this board I was shocked at the variety of problems the car is exhibiting so soon after release because I am also conditioned to think Honda is #1 for reliability. As a propective buyer I would be legitmately concerned about buying this car. I know other people feel the same as the only reason I looked at this board initially was because someone posted that they were thinking about buying a 6 after being scared off by what they saw here. Word of mouth can also travel quickly in the real world.
History tells us that no single person, entity or nation for that matter has asserted dominance in anything for an indefinite period. He/she/they just can't do it.
That includes Honda, BMW, General Electric, Home Depot or, long ago, the Roman Empire.
What's critical, however, is a system that encourages competition for the benefit of consumers, and it's something that we're enjoying.
Before long, who can tell if Hyundai won't become the top carmaker ?
As a consumer, personally I'm content sitting back and letting carmakers fight for my business. That said, you probably can tell that my loyalties are with no particular car company even if I'm happy with our Honda and Toyota products.
aromas: I have to agree with g35 about the lack of validity of comparing the Accord to the 6. The 6 doesn't have the sales volume as yet to generate any sizeable complaints (or proof of lack thereof). You can quote your European sources, but this is still a US spec 6 being built in the US, so it isn't apples to apples. The 6 just doesn't have the volume to be a reasonable point of comparison for defects. We obviously must agree to disagree on this, but it is in no way, shape or form denial. It is simply my point of view.
As for your example about the Dodge Caravan, that has absolutely no bearing regarding my point. I'm not talking about reporting about sales volume, I'm talking about reviews and comparison test. The magazines to which I'm referring prefer the Odyssey over the Caravan by a significant degree, the relative sales volume notwithstanding. So your comment doesn't apply to my point at all.
imidazol97: I'm not even going to bother to respond to you... I find the condescension and arrogance of your post to be offensive, and therefore it's not worth the time and energy to respond.
Since it seems like civil and reasonable discourse is no longer possible in this forum, I'm going to end my participation in this discussion now.
I just think Honda messed up somehere when they built these Accords. I know a couple people who own 03 Accords and never mentioned rattles to me. To me dominance factor as somebody mentioned has nothing to do with it. Honda just didn't build the Accords the way they should have. There's no excuse for cars to rattle like that. I could understand a car when you first own a new car there might be rattles and they take time to stop(breaking in a new car.)
Good comments. That's reality about the cars. Only I believe the car should be tight as new and possibly may develop noises as it ages and the miles rack up.
Rattles and squeaks tend to increase over time not decrease. My first car was a 1978 Monte Carlo(like the one in the movie Training Day though I wish it was as souped up) I loved it but the thing had more squeaks and rattles than a mouse with a tambourine and it just got worse over time.
talon95: My point with the Caravan analogy is that the Caravan can get away with their quality issues because it is an appreciably cheaper car than the Odyssey and alot of consumers see it as a risk they're willing to take to save thousands when they buy. I do think Honda makes the best vans but people I know who buy Caravans simply say they bought it because it was alot cheaper than the Ody even though in the long run the Ody would have ended up costing less when you factor in reliability. The Accord has less room for error and cannot afford quality issues, the competition is too cutthroat and no one sedan is much more or less than the others.
As shown by the fact that Toyota has actually has admitted to similar problems with the 2002 Camry:
TORRANCE, Calif., Nov. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- This statement is being issued by Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.:
In survey results publicized by Consumer Reports, the 2002 Toyota Camry was rated average due to complaints about minor issues with some aspects of the car's interior and exterior trim. Toyota responded to customer reports of uncharacteristic squeaks, rattles and loose trim in early production of the redesigned 2002 Camry. Internal surveys and independent reports confirm Toyota's confidence that the issues have since been resolved and that Camry initial quality is back to its normal high levels. Functional reliability is not an issue. In fact, Camry scored well above average in all major operational categories of Consumer Reports' survey including engine, transmission, brake and electrical systems, etc. Camry remains a recommended model and Toyota and Lexus models continue to be at or near the top of their segments as rated by Consumer Reports and many other independent quality, reliability and customer satisfaction surveys.
SOURCE Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
There may be "no excuse for cars to rattle like that", but the fact of the matter is, even those considered to be among the best exhibit these kinds of problems early out. Toyota apparently got through it, and I'm totally confident that Honda will too. The Camry is still in the running despite these early problems, so I suggest that your "little room for error" observation will have little impact as long as Honda addresses the problems.
I understand your point about the Caravan and it's a point well taken, but it still is irrelevant to my "press" point.
The first words of wisdom I learned at my daddy's knee were, "Anyone who buys a car in its first model changeover year is a guinea pig." Regardless of the high-tech robotics, final assembly is done through the lowest tech method available - P-E-O-P-L-E. Most of these people worked for five years assembling the same basic vehicle. They unavoidably got pretty good at it. Now they're faced with different assembly and calibration procedures. They and the production engineers are still feeling their way toward the best procedures. Still sorting through supplier quality issues. And, still sorting through new technology glitches. It WILL get done if Honda's past history is any indicator. (Honda knows it has a lot riding on this model, since it, too, will probably be around for five years...) Does anyone know of any other mass-produced car make that sorts through its first year teething troubles faster or more conscientiously than Honda? When I was faced with the necessity to replace a totaled '96 Accord, I purchased a Hyundai Sonata well into its current model cycle. The way I figure it, my 2003 Sonata will be ripe for replacement by about late 2006, and I intend it to be with a new 2007 Accord. At 4,000 miles, my new Sonata's a decent car so far and has never seen the inside of the dealer's service department over a warranty issue. Hyundai's made impressive strides over the last three years, but, the day's not close when a future current Sonata's design, ride, reliability, and handling will measure up close to that of a future current Accord or Camry.
Yeah Toyota did as I have mentioned on the Accord Board did have the same problem in 01-02 when the Camry first came out with the rattling issue. I do believe Toyota has fixed it.
First year gremlins: yeah thats what I don't understand people rushing to buy a brand new body style. I would wait until the kinks are worked out in the car and buy it in its 2nd year. I did have a car in its first year(98 626)and there was water from coming down on the floor on the passenger side of the car the 3rd year I owned it. My dad fixed it for me. With that said that it was probably a first year bug. The car only had one other problem: dead battery. I had no choice I needed a car. I had crashed my Ford Mustang and the Transmission was broke from the result of the accident. The car dealer gave me a good deal on the Mazda. Couldn't say no. I have an Acura and people who bought the CL in its first year were complaning about problems. I have an 02 and I don't have any problems with it.
Now about the Caravan I could care less about the Odessy and comparing to it the Caravan. There is the MPV to choose from too. There is just not two choices. I'll add the Sienna to the list too.
I could tell it gets boring without me. The sludge was brought on because of some awakward design in Toyota's engines. I don't think Toyota is going to let that happen again. Rattles if people look at these boards will hurt the Camry sales. The Accord it has a hurt a few sales already as seen on these boards. Not enough to effect heavy units of sales but a small number. I do thik it will effect the Accords resale value for at least a year with the rattles and popping noises. In the long term if they cure thoese problems its hard to say if resale value will get effected or not.
Re msg 4465...I had same problem with my drivers seat in my 2002 Coupe( loose front to back ) the dealer was very helpful but unable to fix. He tried 4 times and replaced everything except the whole seat. I ended up having verbal arguments with their customer service at head quarters and formally writing to Honda. Their response was that it was within specs and is not a safety issue therefore unable to repair. Same with the lose center console...they replaced with a new one but it is still loose. I was very harsh with them and advised them that their quality is going down and probably lost me as their customer....they could not care less. I have been with Honda since 1975 and own 3 hondas and one Legend right now. I will dump the 2002 coupe and will give the new Acura TRX one final chance. I do not think they have made one good car since the Legends!
Ok I didnt even think about the effects of an overfill. Would have looked into it after the other idea failed but atleast your problem has been cured, good for you..As for what to buy, I am probably the wrong guy as I am a Honda believer. However, I would buy a new Honda as we are not seeing many problems with them at all. Yeah I have had a mohawk strip rattle, and a radio issue or two but not much else. As for the other brands I do not know anything about them at all. Road test them both for long test drive and pay close attention to the things that matter the most to you and then decide...Good luck
but I did not see an answer. Are these problems occuring more with Accords built in the US or ones built in Japan? I have noted that Accords built in the US seem to have body panels that do not line up as uniformly as the ones from Japan. I have walked down numerous rows of Accords at various dealers in this area, and the ones with the most uniform gaps between body panels are always built in Japan.
Could people who are having trouble and post in this forum give the first character of their VIN? This might show something.
"In the long term if they cure thoese problems its hard to say if resale value will get effected or not."
The dreaded trnsmission debacle didn't hurt resale. I doubt a couple months of higher-rate-than-usual rattles will hurt it either.
There was nothing wrong woth the Toyota engine. It was more a required maintenance problem. The owners manual had incorrect info regarding maintenance requirements.
I'm deleting my posts from earlier today. They were horrible. I couldn't even understand them.
"Honda has not made a good vehicle since the Legend."
I'm tired of hearing about the Legend already and how Honda hasn't been good since then. The Legend was defunct my freshman year of High School. That was like a whole lifetime ago for me. My big beef with Honda lately is their styling. Its down to Toyota levels. Their dumping their younger buyers they had in the 90's in favor of 50 year olds. Not a good move. Toyota's sales have been down lately. You can only sell plain jane cars for so long and after a certain amount of time nobody wants them anymore.
As far as Toyota's engine problems are concerned doy you believe every single owner who had sludge didn't do proper maintinence on their car? I don't believe that.
As far as Honda's building cars in North America thats another cop out. I could care less where the thing is built. Even If its built in Iceland I don't want any rattles I can hear. Its totally unacceptable.
It is interesting that the honda bashers overlook the fact that honda's reputation is not built just on realiability and resale, but on the fact that as a package it outpoints most of its competitiors by not doing poorly in any area and outdoing its rivals in many. Generally better mpg,regular gas,excellent interior,lots of ergonomic and engineering touches, often cheaper prices (except for maybe the mazda6)and so on.
I agree first year models tend to be problematic. True for all cars, so no change to honda status (as long as the problems are addressed in subsequent years).
All cars have some problems. Anyone check the passat forums for the electrical and coil problens. The Camry/es300 sludge and tranny problems weren't very nice. The 6 has not sold enough yet to have a record one way or the other so it can't be attacked or annnointed as perfect.
Buyers will often forgive proven brands for a few (if corrected promptly with good customer service)defects because of a final feature that none of you mention. This feature is perceived as (often) lacking in the korean cars, nissans,and to a certain extent the 6. That is one of the many reasons buyers keep coming back to camcord in spite of occassional misteps. This feature is refinement.
Btw, the complexity of new designs laden with computer sensors and comfort/safety/performance features not present in cars 5-10 years ago probably makes zero defect cars (that are all new designs, not imported versions previously field tested in home or different markets)an unrealistic or impossible goal. Especially at the oh so affordable prices we have been spoiled on. No free lunch, cost benefit trade offs anyone. I hate rattles as much as anyone, but if that is the worst complaint we have, it shows how spoiled we have become and how good (and cheap)the family sedan market has become. Maybe if $5-$10k is added to prices we would see more rattle free first year cars.
We have a 2003 4 door Accord with a 4 cylinder engine. The vehicle now has 2,200 miles, and we are very happy with the vehicle. No problems. Very quiet. Very powerful. Very smooth. We would highly recommend this vehicle. This is our 4th Honda. -----Just my opinion. ----Greg
How do I replace the negative battery cable on my 2000 Honda Accord????
The current cable is really rusty. I see at the base of the battery, there seems to be bracket which opens up and there it seems like I can replace about the top 1.5 to 2 ft. of the cable. Is that right? And if so, how do I go about replacing the cable.
Kudos to those that have made the point - no car is going to have zero problems in its first model year. How could it? I am certainly not an expert on car design and manufacture, but I think it is a fair statement to say that most design is done on a computer. And the test mules and preproduction cars a manufacturer builds will not be built in enough numbers to produce a statistically significant occurrence of problems such as squeaks and rattles. Some things that are so minor such as a squeak or rattle cannot be resolved until there are a few tens of thousands examples out there driving on the road and exhibiting symptoms.
My '03 has a couple of squeaks. It has also been extraordinarily cold this winter and every car I've ever owned has squeaked and rattled a bit more in the winter, when the cold makes things less flexible. Does it have any more rattles than my wife's '02 Accord does, or than my '02 Accord did? No. Do I think the squeaks are clear evidence of Honda's failing reliability? No. Especially when I consider the '99 Malibu I drove, which had 4 brake jobs in its first 8,000 miles, including complete replacement of the pads and rotors at 4,000 miles. That car was in its 3rd model year, and my dealer's service manager told me that Chevrolet had already reformulated the brake pads 4 times to try and solve the problem (premature wear and warpage of the rotors). That I would consider an indication of failing quality and reliability, and a significant safety concern.
Hondas are not perfect. Nothing designed or made by man will be. People need to realize that. But they are quite a bit better than pretty much everything else out there.
To put it all in perspective ... the last 26 posts have been people debating whether or not the Accord does have excessive problems, not actual Accord owners with problems. That should tell you something.
A scroll through the message boards will reveal that no car is trouble-free. As said before, condisering the number of Accords that are sold if there were a significant number of vehicles being problematic Edmunds would be overflowing considering there are already 125,000 or more Accords on the road. If 10% of people were experiencing problems and 10% of those people posted on Edmunds you would have 1,250 people on Edmunds complaining. That's not the case.
After a test drive Saturday of an '03 Accord 4-cylinder EX sedan, my wife has decided this is the car for her (over the Camry XLE, the Altima, etc.). However, having read through the last few posts (and being the owner of a first-year 2000 Impala, which has had more than it's share of glitches), are there any concerns more serious than squeaking A-pillars that one should look for in the new Accord? When does production/introduction of the '04 model begin?
I have not seen any reference to the problem I am having with my 2003 Accord LX-V6, so here goes in the hopes that someone else can share advice with me. I bought this car last month because of the overall good reviews, Honda reputation, etc... and because I am tall and the car has more driver leg room and head room than others in its class. However, after a couple of weeks driving the car I am frustrated. No matter how I adjust the driver's seat I cannot find a comfortable position and driving the car is causing me acute back pain. Is anyone else having such problems with the seats in the Accord? The seats seem to be too thin, hard, and angled too much to the back. Any advice or solutions?
Comments
The Mazda 6 seems to be poised to inheirit the mantle of "almost perfect car" unless you consider a sunglass holder rattle that can be fixed by simply opening and closing it a few times a major problem. I know the Accord has growing pains but the 6 seems to have these pains down to a minimum.
Man do I wish the Accord vs. 6 was still up because if the situation was reversed us 6 owners would never hear the end of it. Perhaps Honda rushed the 2003 into production to simply offset pressure caused by the new Altima. Let's be honest folks based on these boards the new Accord has issues. If I was still looking for a new car I would be pretty concerned about this car based on what I've seen here and please don't say that there are more problems because more are being sold because this site tends to attract more car enthusiasts so I would venture to guess that the gap between Accord and 6 owners is much lower than the real world. The # of posts on the Mazda board is almost as high as the Honda board, pretty good considering this car is only a few months old.
Left food in trunk on a camping trip and they found a way in and made a real mess.
The Mazda6 hasn't passed the 10,000 sales mark yet. So it has owners "down to the minimum" also. How do they compare to the Accord which sells that many in less than a week. And even more impressive is that they sell most of them to actual people than any other model in the segment. The reason the Mazda board has so many postings is that the Mazda6 people only have 1 board and they talk about the Accord as much as the Mazda6. The Accord forums are divided into many subsections.
The lack of posts here for a car that sells so well is more telling than anything. I for one don't expect every Honda to roll down the assembly line perfect but considering the mass production of the car if there were even 5% of the last few years production with problems Edmunds would be over loaded.
It's very easy and popular to log on and get your beef on now.
Well that may be true in North America but it sure isn't true everywhere else in the world. The 6 is a hot seller in Europe and Asia where they have been out over a year and they report the same problems that are in N.A. Pretty much nothing! Check out www.Mazdaatenza.com. and all you get are the owners there gushing about their car. Give credit where credit is due. BTW I am a real 6 owner.
Try and comfort the next Accord owner whose car cuts out on the highway with all the impressive sales #'s. If Honda has that same attitude then they should remember 2 words "Ford Taurus". A shooting star in sales that crashed and burned.
Say that this board represents 1\1000th of the buying public. If a few owners on this board have the cars die while driving and steering drift that's alot of people who encounter it in the real world. Something to think about especially when you have kids in the car.
If Honda dealers are arrogant as they appear to be from postings here then a couple of years from now no one will be bragging about Accord sales #'s. I think Honda is starting to get the attitude "it doesn't matter what we put out there just make it as fast as the competitors and it'll sell on reputation.The same attitude Ford had with the Taurus. I guess only time will tell.
As documented by someone on this forum, I believe it was Auburn63, I broke out the throttlebody cleaner and toothbrush and cleaned away the black goop on the throttle plate and that cured the problem. I guess I should make this part of my 60K maintenance routine, as I have been putting this off for a while.
I'm currently @89K+ miles and I plan to replace the plugs soon with copper NGK ZFR5F-11. Has anyone else changed from the plats to copper on their I-4. The engine still starts quickly and runs smoothly, but 90K is a nice round number to remember.
Other than a few intermittent rattles that I've had since day 1, this car has been remarkable to this point.
I put Bridgestone Turanza LS-H on the front @81K and am very pleased with the improvement in wet traction and quietness on rough concrete.
How about it, can anyone top 89K miles on an 01 model?
I just find it amusing that when the new 6 and Altima came out alot of warnings were issued on some boards about buyer beware, brand new model wait until it's 2nd or 3rd year of production when they get all the bugs out. This apparently did not include the 2003 Accord as many posts stated that it's "Honda" they're always reliable, doesn't apply. Now when problems arise the excuse being used is it's a new model, teething pains et al. Sounds pretty convenient.
From the accolades that the new Accord is getting from nearly everyone, this is obviously not true.
As far as the engine dying on the highway is concerned, sure, that's not great for the person to whom it happened, but let's not go off the deep end and turn an isolated report into an epidemic. There's nothing out there to warrant that... it's just promoting FUD.
One interesting thing about the drifting... to my knowledge, there hasn't been a single report about that from the press despite all of the testing that's been done. Perhaps it too isn't the epidemic that some are assuming it is. I'm not trying to say that these aren't problems... they most certainly are. But if some members of the Accord forum are "in denial", going to the opposite extreme with unwarranted conjecture is certainly no better.
If a couple months production of the Accord may have had a few bugs that equates to a possible 60,000 Accords that may have a higher defect rate than usual. But if the same thing happens to the Mazda6, hey they only sold like 2000 in the first two months. To have a defect rate you have to put a few on the road. It's just not happening. Additionally the Mazda6's overseas are built over there. Ours are built here in the U.S. Just like the Focus, it can make a world of difference.
I'm not saying that the people who are reporting drifting problems knew about them before they took delivery. But they may not have noticed it during their test drive... some things can be quite subtle, and a test drive doesn't reveal everything about a car. So I'll remain curious about the lack of press on this... if you disagree, fine, that's your right.
I'm not suggesting "sweeping it under the rug". But implying that this issue is some kind of harbinger of the demise of Honda quality is really pushing it to an extreme that the circumstances are far from warranting.
Isn't the Accord built here? I guess that would make a world of difference as well to their quality.
talon95: CR does do an more indepth study but they base reliabilty on long term usage. Many cars they test have circles change color over time because they can only truly determine the car's quality after several years. The new protege had average ratings when it first came but changed to above average after 2 years based on data. New 1st year models are generally rated based on previous model history because it's impossible to do otherwise.
That's true, but that didn't stop them from saying that based on previous models, they expect the new Accord to be much better than average in reliability. I can just about guarantee you that this drifting problem will not change that, and that it will be fixed.
I could go thru the board and list them all but it will take too long and it's time to go to bed.
To tell you the truth CR is taking an educated guess and they would be the first ones to admit that it's not an exact science. I would take real world situations that are contained here than a magazine. Sorry!
Based on past experience, I can just about guarantee that all of these issues will be addressed. They are new design teething issues, just about all new designs have them, and they don't speak to overall reliability. Despite Honda's well deserved reputation for reliability, even they aren't immune to this. This type of issue existed in the first model year of the previous generation Accord, and that didn't stop that car from turning out to be top ranked for reliability. I'm confident that the same will be true for this generation of Accord.
I'm still going to stand by my position that, if the press hasn't reported on it at all, while the drifting may not be isolated, it may also not be widespread. Nothing at all has been said to make me change that position. I agree that the real life reports here are of more importance than a predicted reliability score by a magazine. Where I have an issue is when these typical teething problems are trumped up as "proof" that the new Accord has overall quality problems.
There are more than a average amount of "teething" problems on the 2003. Some seem to be serious and some not. Teething or no teething when you compare it to the Mazda 6 which seems to be not exhibiting these "growing pains" then you may be setting yourself up for a fall. Honda does have a great reputation but it seems they were sloppy in the development of the car. If these problems get worse over time, don't kid yourself those who use to swear by an Accord will jump off the bandwagon real quick and hop on a Camry, 6 or Altima before you know it. The midsize market is way too competitive to be screwing around with your product. Even Hyundai is a contender now, who woulda thunk it 5 years ago.
The lack of press on this is nothing new. The Dodge Caravan IMO is a lemon, everybody I know who has one have always had numerous problems with it yet it still is the #1 seller due to the fact that it is still cheaper than the superior Odyssey and Sienna. But all you hear in the press is about the Caravan being the #1 selling van in N.A. and not the reliabilty problems. The Accord does not have that going for them. Prices for midsize cars are all pretty similar for various packages. Don't get me wrong I'm not calling the Accord a lemon by any means or comparing it to the Caravan, the Accord is still a great car for the price but there is very little room for error due to the competition and allegiances can change very quickly. Don't underestimate the fickleness of the consumer. Something Honda should consider as well as they consider reliability and build quality the selling point of this car and their trump card!
When I first perused this board I was shocked at the variety of problems the car is exhibiting so soon after release because I am also conditioned to think Honda is #1 for reliability. As a propective buyer I would be legitmately concerned about buying this car. I know other people feel the same as the only reason I looked at this board initially was because someone posted that they were thinking about buying a 6 after being scared off by what they saw here. Word of mouth can also travel quickly in the real world.
I'm not bashing Honda I was posting what I thought was honest. I honestly hope Honda gets these problems straightened out for their owneers.
That includes Honda, BMW, General Electric, Home Depot or, long ago, the Roman Empire.
What's critical, however, is a system that encourages competition for the benefit of consumers, and it's something that we're enjoying.
Before long, who can tell if Hyundai won't become the top carmaker ?
As a consumer, personally I'm content sitting back and letting carmakers fight for my business. That said, you probably can tell that my loyalties are with no particular car company even if I'm happy with our Honda and Toyota products.
As for your example about the Dodge Caravan, that has absolutely no bearing regarding my point. I'm not talking about reporting about sales volume, I'm talking about reviews and comparison test. The magazines to which I'm referring prefer the Odyssey over the Caravan by a significant degree, the relative sales volume notwithstanding. So your comment doesn't apply to my point at all.
imidazol97: I'm not even going to bother to respond to you... I find the condescension and arrogance of your post to be offensive, and therefore it's not worth the time and energy to respond.
Since it seems like civil and reasonable discourse is no longer possible in this forum, I'm going to end my participation in this discussion now.
Only I believe the car should be tight as new
and possibly may develop noises as it ages and
the miles rack up.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
talon95: My point with the Caravan analogy is that the Caravan can get away with their quality issues because it is an appreciably cheaper car than the Odyssey and alot of consumers see it as a risk they're willing to take to save thousands when they buy. I do think Honda makes the best vans but people I know who buy Caravans simply say they bought it because it was alot cheaper than the Ody even though in the long run the Ody would have ended up costing less when you factor in reliability. The Accord has less room for error and cannot afford quality issues, the competition is too cutthroat and no one sedan is much more or less than the others.
TORRANCE, Calif., Nov. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- This statement is being issued by
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.:
In survey results publicized by Consumer Reports, the 2002 Toyota Camry was rated average due to complaints about minor issues with some aspects of the car's interior and exterior trim.
Toyota responded to customer reports of uncharacteristic squeaks, rattles and loose trim in early production of the redesigned 2002 Camry. Internal surveys and independent reports confirm Toyota's confidence that the issues have since been resolved and that Camry initial quality is back to its normal high levels. Functional reliability is not an issue. In fact, Camry scored
well above average in all major operational categories of Consumer Reports' survey including engine, transmission, brake and electrical systems, etc.
Camry remains a recommended model and Toyota and Lexus models continue to be at or near the top of their segments as rated by Consumer Reports and many other independent quality, reliability and customer satisfaction surveys.
SOURCE Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
There may be "no excuse for cars to rattle like that", but the fact of the matter is, even those considered to be among the best exhibit these kinds of problems early out. Toyota apparently got through it, and I'm totally confident that Honda will too. The Camry is still in the running despite these early problems, so I suggest that your "little room for error" observation will have little impact as long as Honda addresses the problems.
I understand your point about the Caravan and it's a point well taken, but it still is irrelevant to my "press" point.
First year gremlins: yeah thats what I don't understand people rushing to buy a brand new body style. I would wait until the kinks are worked out in the car and buy it in its 2nd year. I did have a car in its first year(98 626)and there was water from coming down on the floor on the passenger side of the car the 3rd year I owned it. My dad fixed it for me. With that said that it was probably a first year bug. The car only had one other problem: dead battery. I had no choice I needed a car. I had crashed my Ford Mustang and the Transmission was broke from the result of the accident. The car dealer gave me a good deal on the Mazda. Couldn't say no. I have an Acura and people who bought the CL in its first year were complaning about problems. I have an 02 and I don't have any problems with it.
Now about the Caravan I could care less about the Odessy and comparing to it the Caravan. There is the MPV to choose from too. There is just not two choices. I'll add the Sienna to the list too.
Same with the lose center console...they replaced with a new one but it is still loose.
I was very harsh with them and advised them that their quality is going down and probably lost me as their customer....they could not care less. I have been with Honda since 1975 and own 3 hondas and one Legend right now.
I will dump the 2002 coupe and will give the new Acura TRX one final chance.
I do not think they have made one good car since the Legends!
Could people who are having trouble and post in this forum give the first character of their VIN? This might show something.
Or again, it might not.
The dreaded trnsmission debacle didn't hurt resale. I doubt a couple months of higher-rate-than-usual rattles will hurt it either.
There was nothing wrong woth the Toyota engine. It was more a required maintenance problem. The owners manual had incorrect info regarding maintenance requirements.
I'm deleting my posts from earlier today. They were horrible. I couldn't even understand them.
I'm tired of hearing about the Legend already and how Honda hasn't been good since then. The Legend was defunct my freshman year of High School. That was like a whole lifetime ago for me. My big beef with Honda lately is their styling. Its down to Toyota levels. Their dumping their younger buyers they had in the 90's in favor of 50 year olds. Not a good move. Toyota's sales have been down lately. You can only sell plain jane cars for so long and after a certain amount of time nobody wants them anymore.
As far as Toyota's engine problems are concerned doy you believe every single owner who had sludge didn't do proper maintinence on their car? I don't believe that.
As far as Honda's building cars in North America thats another cop out. I could care less where the thing is built. Even If its built in Iceland I don't want any rattles I can hear. Its totally unacceptable.
I agree first year models tend to be problematic. True for all cars, so no change to honda status (as long as the problems are addressed in subsequent years).
All cars have some problems. Anyone check the passat forums for the electrical and coil problens. The Camry/es300 sludge and tranny problems weren't very nice. The 6 has not sold enough yet to have a record one way or the other so it can't be attacked or annnointed as perfect.
Buyers will often forgive proven brands for a few (if corrected promptly with good customer service)defects because of a final feature that none of you mention. This feature is perceived as (often) lacking in the korean cars, nissans,and to a certain extent the 6. That is one of the many reasons buyers keep coming back to camcord in spite of occassional misteps. This feature is refinement.
Btw, the complexity of new designs laden with computer sensors and comfort/safety/performance features not present in cars 5-10 years ago probably makes zero defect cars (that are all new designs, not imported versions previously field tested in home or different markets)an unrealistic or impossible goal. Especially at the oh so affordable prices we have been spoiled on. No free lunch, cost benefit trade offs anyone. I hate rattles as much as anyone, but if that is the worst complaint we have, it shows how spoiled we have become and how good (and cheap)the family sedan market has become. Maybe if $5-$10k is added to prices we would see more rattle free first year cars.
The current cable is really rusty. I see at the base of the battery, there seems to be bracket which opens up and there it seems like I can replace about the top 1.5 to 2 ft. of the cable. Is that right? And if so, how do I go about replacing the cable.
Thanks,
My '03 has a couple of squeaks. It has also been extraordinarily cold this winter and every car I've ever owned has squeaked and rattled a bit more in the winter, when the cold makes things less flexible. Does it have any more rattles than my wife's '02 Accord does, or than my '02 Accord did? No. Do I think the squeaks are clear evidence of Honda's failing reliability? No. Especially when I consider the '99 Malibu I drove, which had 4 brake jobs in its first 8,000 miles, including complete replacement of the pads and rotors at 4,000 miles. That car was in its 3rd model year, and my dealer's service manager told me that Chevrolet had already reformulated the brake pads 4 times to try and solve the problem (premature wear and warpage of the rotors). That I would consider an indication of failing quality and reliability, and a significant safety concern.
Hondas are not perfect. Nothing designed or made by man will be. People need to realize that. But they are quite a bit better than pretty much everything else out there.
A scroll through the message boards will reveal that no car is trouble-free. As said before, condisering the number of Accords that are sold if there were a significant number of vehicles being problematic Edmunds would be overflowing considering there are already 125,000 or more Accords on the road. If 10% of people were experiencing problems and 10% of those people posted on Edmunds you would have 1,250 people on Edmunds complaining. That's not the case.
carlos: The seats are comfortable to me. You may want to try some type of seat pad.