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Comments
Which brings me to the question, why do you want cross-drilled discs on your '99 RL? Just curious.
Take care.
Joe W.
I really like my RL, but unfortunately the car doesn't really fit ANY class. It can't run w/ the big boys (LS4xx, BWM 740s, Infiniti Q45, etc...) yet it's better (more refined, better equipped, larger) than the near luxury crowd. That's a tough position to be in (and the sales figures show this).
$5K year-end rebates/incentives (such as last model year) are very nice for bargain hunters, but they kill the resale value of the car.
The current model is a hellava value and an excellent well made car for the money. I'd love to see Acura bring back the classic and sporty styling that made the Legend famous. I'll never sell my 95'GS Legend that still looks fresh up to today.
You don't say whether you're familiar with leasing or not, but the Acura RL offer is outstanding, imo! The money factor on the lease figures out to be around 2% interest (I'd give it to you exactly if you wish); the 12000 mi/yr allowance is reasonable, the overage at .15/mi is reasonable. BUT: I disagree with the idea of paying the cap cost reduction money. I lease with no money down and take a slightly higher monthly payment as a sort of insurance -- say you pay the $1500 and, pulling out of the parking lot, get wiped out by a semi ... the money is gone. So I prefer to let Honda take that risk.
Take care.
Joe W.
1) "All the other luxury cars have one, why can't I?"
2) "It sounds so sweet."
3) "When nobuddies lookin, I can peel rubber easy."
4) "It costs more, and I can do it, so I'm better than you. PHBBBLTT."
5) "Even though they're almost as good off the line, and top end, I'll blow the V-6 weenies away in mid-range!"
Of course when Acura decides to take the challenge as I'm guessing they must, the cost to the consumer will put the car in the price range of the others, but about $5000 to $7000 less ... say, $50k-$55k. According to my salesman friend, Acura won't want to leave the $40k gap open and will continue to offer a version very much like the current RL -- a relief to those of us in the snow country who actually consider value.
Take care.
Joe W.
So, I'm looking at a p/u truck to replace it, but, then again, maybe another RL? My used '96 is purring along with 14K put on over the last ten months and my kid says she looks like she "belongs" in a car like this, more so than an Integra!
Or: ask the salesman if they think it would void your warranty if you bought an MDX, then cut the back end to make a bed. (Be sure to watch his face! : )
Take care.
Joe W.
My '96 is the best car I've ever owned so far, as well as the best deal I've ever engineered. It goes beyond "value for the dollar." I am totally satisfied with this vehicle, as is everyone else in the family. Friends and clients want to know if I can find them another deal like it.
My salesman friend always calls me about the MDX, especially after the test-crash results were publicized. My "better-half" preferred the '01 Odyssey EX we bought in April over the MDX for both the roominess and $$$ difference.
Take care.
Joe W.
I am anxious to drive the 02'RL and feel the changes, 97' was the last one i drove and i loved the car, but the suspension was just too soft for my town, although the ride may be great on long rides it would be too much roll for the city.
My '96 is the best car I've ever owned so far, as well as the best deal I've ever engineered. It goes beyond "value for the dollar."
My salesman friend always calls me about the MDX, especially after the test-crash results were publicized. My "better-half" preferred the '01 Odyssey EX we bought in April over the MDX for both the roominess and $$$ difference.
The flagship of any luxury car company ought to be something extraordinary and not merely a "value alternative" with no real identity or market positioning. There is a big void in Acura's upper-end and that void is certainly not filled with the V6 FWD 3.5RL. Does anybody in their right mind truly equate the Acura RL with something like an LS430 or a Mercedes S-class ?!! Ever tried to understand why ?
My advice to Acura would be to shed cars like the Front-wheel-drive 4-banger RSX etc from its line-up and introduce a car (sedan/Coupe) based on the excellent RWD Honda S2000 with a small 2.5 - 3.0L V6/I6 and go head to head with the BMW 3-series/Audi A4/Lexus IS300. Also, re-engineer the RL to be a true player in the Luxury segment.
The only car truly deserving the "extraordinary" label in the Acura line-up is the Mid-engined, Aircraft aluminium alloy bodied HAND-BUILT NSX. But time and competition have long passed the NSX by....also, the common man does not even know the existence of this $88,000 car in the Acura line-up.....this again is another car that sorely needs the "V8 treatment" since the only manufacturer that can get away with a V6 at that level is Porsche.
Take care...AH
http://www.hondanews.com under technical specifications on the RL. There is a lot of technology that goes into the RL from the F1 Program.
The thing I don't understand is why they don't update the V6 or revise the design to include the Type-S V-6. The current engine is smooth as silk, but it is an old design.
Btw, I think you'll like the changes in the '02. Post and let us know what you think. You might have them check the tire pressure before you go out -- lots of lazy folk let cars go out for tests without changing the pressure from the 40-50 that they're shipped with and that much pressure, obviously, makes a drive difference.
Take care.
Joe W.
Take care.
Joe W.
I am sure that with the direction Acura is going there will be 2 models of the RL. The body will change, the standard features will increase and I am sure there will be a RL-V6 with a few more horsepower and yes for all those that dream of a V8 I am sure there will be a RL-Type S.
Bottom line is this, when you have the RL as it now sits in a market of its own it is hard to tamper with the experts who knock the RL for no V8 but dollar for dollar there is nothing that touches it. As has been mentioned earlier, park a Lexus, BMW, MB and an Acura all V8's side by side in the neighborhood and guess what, the Acura owner will not grab the most looks and they will all be the same general 50M plus. Given the current model and ameninities it offers, deep inside he will smile the most as he is getting far more bang for his buck.
Also, could you please explain the "technology that goes into the RL from the F1 Program" that you mentioned ?
Basically as I understand, the RL uses an old tech non-variable valve timing engine with a 90 degree SOHC configuration, which pretty much explains why Honda is hardpressed to obtain any more HP from the engine. Also, this 90 degree configuration is inherently un-balanced in a V6, and require additional mechanisms to quell the un-balanced vibrations. A 60 degree high tech variable valve timing configuration of engines like the TL/TL-s on the other hand, is naturally more balanced and runs smoother. The 90 degree configuration, incidentally would be ideal in a V8 DEFINITELY NOT in a V6. Some examples of the 90 degree V6 configuration would be the Oldsmobile Aurora V6, where GM wanted to develop the V6 on the same assembly line as their V8 engines, and took the cheap way out (to not have to design 2 entirely different assembly lines) by maintaining the 90 degree configuration of the V8 in their V6.
Considering the technology in both the TL-s engine and the RL engine, logically I would presume that the "F1 program" has benefitted the TL/TL-s and not the RL !!!
Also, while much cheaper cars like the TL/TL-s use a 5-speed sportshift adaptive automatic transmission, the "Flagship" soldiers on with a 4-speed automatic !!! Can you name one other "Luxury car" that plods along with a 4-speed automatic ??
dbeattie1:
I agree that ponies alone do not make a car...but then could you explain why Acura has to resort to liberal "Incentives and Rebates" to move a car like the RL, while cars like the TL/TL-s are selling like hotcakes ? Hell, the RL from what I understood, was being sold for roughly 32K (Non-navigation model), BRAND NEW, end of the last model year....does not bode well for future resale of the car, does it ?!!
In 2000, I was originally on the lookout to purchase an RL, but after looking at the TL and driving it extensively, I simply could not bring myself to buy the RL. I bought my TL with Navigation, and paid cash on the spot !
During a trip a few months back in the TL (> 2500 miles), this mercurial and powerful cruiser (lots of reserve power at all speeds)kept on the highway all day long at 70-90 mph and the overall mileage during the trip was 32mpg !!! This was with Automatic climate control on the whole way and with 4 people and associated light luggage ! That is Honda Civic mileage territory, I might add. Even at the end of the trip, I felt thoroughly refreshed and not in the least bit tired. During a particular trip, during which I kept the TL at a steady 70mph with cruise control on, the car returned 36mpg !!! This is in a large car with a powerful V6 engine. Normally the car gives about 22-24 mpg during a 40%city/60% highway type of trips.
Later...AH
Auto headlight system
Power tilt/telescope steering
Block forged connecting rods
Honeycomb Floor Panels (F1)
Microfinished Crankshaft (F1)
4-coat/4-bake paint finish (99 as the last year of the 5-coat finishes).
3-stage induction system for optimal torque at low, med and hi rpm.
Adjustable rear head rests
Padded leather armrest on each door. This may be small, but I use it everyday and love it! One of the best features in the car.
Longer reliability record. My brother in law's 99TL had fit/finish body panel problems and so did many other owners during that first production year including loose interior door trim. When I got my RL the TL was just being made and only offer 4-sp sportshift.
Things I like in the TL not offered in the RL
60 degree V6 design
260 hp Type-S engine
5-speed auto
In the end, I would still get the RL if I could get it at invoice or less over a TL at MSRP. I excluded the usual std features like heated seats and mirrors, HID, etc...
So I wiped off the rotors and brake pads reinstall the calipers and used a torque wrench to tighen each lug nut to about 80 ft/lbs. So far, the shuttering hasn't come back. I'll still replace the pad in another 10k miles when I hit 75k. Those NISSIN pads seem to last a long time.
But certainly, Honda recognizes the mistake they made in going toward the soft, cruiser type of design in the mid-'90s with all of their models except the Integra and have 'corrected' the mistake with new designs up and down the line up except for the RL which they've only re-tuned to this point. Certainly, there will need to be a new RL if it is to stay on the roster, as well as one further up the lineup with a V8/AWD.
And while the idea of the TL appeals to me, I thought about it and remembered I spend most of my time in pretty heavy traffic, not on the twisties, or on long highways, not on country roads, and decided that the RL really fit the bill. Btw, besides the TL I also had on my list the MB320, the A6 4.2 & the Volvo S80. Each was either overpowered or overpriced or had reliability issues that kept bringing me back to the RL.
So based on my experience, while I agree with what you're saying, I come to a different conclusion. But it's only my experience (not ignorance).
Take care.
Joe W.
But, the RL has the roominess that I like. I get a "closed-in" feeling in the TL and Accord EX, even more with their respective coupe offerings. A newer RL with the V-8 RWD layout will no doubt please some of those who are "dissatisfied" with the current V-6 models, but at what price? Surely, it will crash the $50K barrier. There will still be the need to bridge the price gap with the TL-Type S in the low $30Ks.
I paid 33k for my left over 2000 RL in Dec and I think there is no better value around. I just drove it by myself 800 miles across the midwest, IN to KS. What a joy to drive. No fatigue or sore butt.
After I got home I started driving my 99 Accord V6 coupe. Nice car, but not an Acura....
Did you happen to see the review of the TL in the latest edition of Auto World. They rarely get excited or rave about anything, and I've never heard them give the kind of praise they had for the TL Type-S. Even I, who love the car, wasn't that excited by it.
Just curious, phild_mason, but I'm guessing that your 00 had some demo mileage on it?
Take care.
Joe W.
OTOH, people "dissing" the RL for it's lack of a V-8 and alleged "ho-hum" styling is what has made it available at such bargain prices. I think I'll keep it under my hat and let everyone else pay stratospheric prices for the competition. And yes, the angle of the windshield does affect the feeling of roominess. My history with Legends include the inaugural non-leather '86 sedan, '87 coupes (twice), and '91 LS sedan before my '96 RL.
As you stated the TL and RL have similar interior specs. In fact the TL has more cubes because of the center console. The angles do make a difference and the RL feels bigger.
I had a Millenia in "Merlot," before the wine really became popular. Not as dark as "Burgundy," which was part of the attraction for me. Still, it was a color that needed to "grow" on people; most have an aversion to it compared with the in-vogue choices.
1000 miles? That's next-to-nothing! Salesmen and service demos around here go on the block with 3500-10,000 miles on them, and the prices are often nothing to write home about. You got a deal!
I am amazed at the number of green, white and heather mist RL's out there. I find them somewhat boring. I do like the new silver.
I don't worry too much about the Ruby as a cop magnet.
I have more trouble with my 99 Accord coupe in San Marino Red. Now that one is a cop magnet. I try to keep in under control since I tend to stick out pretty good.
Driving my RL, I appear to be a typical law-abiding citizen contributing to society. A four-door sedan conjures up an image of stability and responsibility. When I was once stopped, all I needed was to produce were my driver's license, vehicle registration, and no-fault insurance card after being politely asked if I had a drink that evening. No field sobriety test. I notice that we also get waved on when driving the minivan.
Most of the ones who get stopped are driving low-rider or monster pick-up trucks, two-door coupes, and "tricked-up" rice-rockets. They're the ones doing the one-legged knee bends and toeing the line. And asked to produce their "re-construction" permits. Plus sound meters testing the decibel level of their headers and light meters determining the darkness of their window tint.
We continue to get fatal accidents with young lives getting snuffed-out for no good reason. Speed and alcohol are definite factors.
They also gave the Lexus LS430 bad reviews. Car and driver tends to favor sports sedans and sports cars. I think Road and Track does a better job reviewing cars. I subscribe to both.
C&D takes journalistic pleasure in saying aggravating things. Some of it is witty. Much is half-witted, written often-times by kids with no life but cars. Have you read Auto World? They used to be quite objective, but now they seem to be going for readership... Enter, "style," meaning ridicule anything without a fancy hood ornament or a V8.
Take care.
Joe W.
Take care.
Joe W.
It beats out Jaguar XJ, Volvo S80, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Lexus GS-Series, BMW 5-Series, Cadillac Seville, Mercedes-Benz CLK, Lincoln Continental, Jaguar S-Type, and Cadillac Eldorado. It only trails these cars-Lexus LS430, Cadillac DeVille, BMW 7-Series, Toyota Avalon, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, and Toyota Camry in Vehicle Satisfaction Scores for 2000-2001. The survey proved that bad magazine reviews does not nesscessary reflect how a car will satisfly its owner in the real world.
http://www.autopacific.com/topten.html
Not to mention that it comes fully loaded with every available feature (moonroof, cd, etc.) for thousands less than the E-320 and 10-15K less than the E-430. Go ahead and follow the crowd, but I'll get in my Acura and enjoy the smooth ride and money in the bank any day.
Nope, y'gotta be 25 with your dimestore tech stocks worthless but no car payments to make, to get you good & riled but otherworldly in the things you don't like. I too like the cars approved by C&D but wouldn't spend the money on them because, in my real world, I only get to drive on a closed course 4 or 5 times a year and prefer a roadster at those times.
But I did enjoy his observation that Honda has added content to the Acura every year. He doesn't like that, though every car from Rolls to Fiat does it on an annual basis -- why else, afterr all, buy a "new one"? And the only thing he approves, the navigation system, is something that has no appeal to me. So I suspect we'd not have much to talk about. I, for example, think the 3-series, though a magnificent feat of engineering, not only is overpriced but is designed to look like several different compact cars. If the Acura looks like Lexus looks like MB, well, I actually like the appearance of each of those ... and there aren't so many of them around that it's easy to walk up to the wrong car (in a row of compacts: )
See, we can all be snide.
Take care.
Joe W.
"First of all, anyone who has even looked at the specs of the RL knows that it reaches peak torque at a very low 2800 rpm's not the 3500 he made up in lala land."
But the article says:
"The V-6 makes most of its power high in the rev range. Unfortunately, at about 3500 rpm the engine emits an uncharacteristic amount of noise for a Honda piece."
Unlike what you seem to imply, I don't think the reviewer said that the RL makes its peak torque at 3500 rpm....have I mis-read the above sentence from the article ? Moreover, the RL's peak power (as in Horsepower) does come at 5200 rpm even though its torque peaks in sooner at 2800 rpm.
According to my tech, one of the reasons for the "check engine" light is the oxygen sensor needing replacement. I recall this being the case with the Mazda Millenia I had in '96 when the mileage hit 40K.
Let us know how it comes out, please.
Take care.
Joe W.
Acura is still trying to forget the mistakes (previous TL, Vigor, SLX and RL) they made in the mid 90's but the RL is still there to remind them.
The Vigor was a real "bust" and keeping it under the 2.5TL name-plate didn't fool anyone.
In my case, bmmms, the BMW 5 series was part of my search. It is a wonderful car, but I just couldn't get past the image problem. You see so many of them on the road they have no personal style but just an impression that someone wants to be seen in one of them. At least in my area many of the drivers and certainly the dealers are just plain arrogant. I also found it over-priced for one similarly equipped, and a little cramped inside -- is it that much smaller or does it just seem so from the design?
Sorry, imHo, many bimmer drivers have bought an image rather than a car. I prefer the RL -- btw, when was the last time you drove one? Try an '02.
Take care.
Joe w.