Since all of Orkinp's 4 friends ended up buying the TL, it is clear testimony that the TL is a much better valued car than the RL, even though the RL is selling at invoice. To me, the invoice price is still not a good deal (I will wait) because of RL's various actual and perceived shortcomings (as noted in prior postings). I was at the NYC auto show this April. The Lexus cars got a lot of attention while the Acura cars (particularly the RL)got little, even though both brands make reliable cars. This might be the reason why Lexus cars are "hideously overpriced". I have not sat in the ES 300, but I am surprised to hear that it is NOT a comfortable car.
is certainly a subjective word, kenny. Other than that, your position imo seems very well-put. I certainly agree that the TL is "more fun," and have no problem with the RLs frank declaration of luxury in its approach. And I would think that you could come within shouting range of $5k between the TL and RL -- let me know if you do price them head to head.
Hunter, the car is "cheap" not because it is an abomination, but because it is unpopular. Popularity, however, is no great indicator of value. This is why the RL has been, and continues to be, a vehicle for those who don't need too much "popularity." The word 'disgrace' which you apply to the RL's engine is a word usually applied to teenagers who've stayed out all night, politicians, auto salesmen, and (in my neighborhood) certain clergymen, not engineers. Thank you for not liking the car -- it may encourage Acura to come up with a really passionate redesign. Meanwhile, Acura dealers will give a good price to people like Kenny.
A journalist is looking for someone who bought one "twin" over another where the manufacturer offers two or more vehicles based on the same basic platform. (a Maxima vs. an I35 (or I30) or the TL vs. Accord) Did you know it was basically the same vehicle as the other? Why did you choose it over the other? Please submit your response to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, May 15.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I don't see the RL as a downgrade to a TL. It all depends on what your looking for.
There is plenty of technology that goes into the RL which makes it much more expensive. I've spent plenty of time in the current generation TL and its nowhere as refined as the RL.
Hunter,
If you don't like the RL, don't buy it. Before purchasing my RL, I only considered a TL because it was in my price range. When I was able to get the RL at invoice, I jumped at the chance. To me an RL is a big upgrade from the TL.
My NSX-T is slower than the M3 and Z06, in 0-60 times, and it has a 90 degree V6, but I certainly wouldn't call it a disgrace. I purchased it for its technology, build quality and fun to drive factor (and, it certainly is fun to drive. )
I agree that switching from the TL (an entry level luxury car) to the RL (a mid-level luxury car)is a DEFINITE upgrade. The more difficult issue is, as stated, whether the RL is worth $10k more. The answer, IMHO and after taking into consideration all of the opinions expressed in recent postings on this board, is in the negative. The difficulty is heightened by the fact that the TL is a nice car, has almost all of RL's comfort features and is priced right. Auto makers and dealers expect to make a lot more money in selling luxury cars (such as the RL), but when the market says that the car is not in demand despite moderate price concessions, either the price needs to be further adjusted (as was done in year end 2000) or the car needs to be re-configured and re-engineered. Also, offering attractive lease deals may be unsuitable for certain customers such as myself, who drive no more than 5k miles a year. It is undisputed that the RL is a fine luxury car, however, the current design is more than 6 years old and a new and better design must be implemented soon. Acura should not leave the flagship car in the shadow of its junior siblings -- the TL and the MDX. Nonetheless, I think the RL is probably the right car for me. All I am waiting for is the right deal -- around $37k to $38k(nav included).
I too would consider the RL if the price came down to around 34-35K(non-nav). My wife and I saw the TL the other day and I very much liked it but the wife did not find the passenger seat at all comfortable so unfortunately the TL is out. She very much liked the RL (naturally). We also looked at the ES300 and she also found the passenger seat very comfortable. How do you think the RL compares to the ES300? At this point I do not feel the RL is worth more than the ES300. MSRP is around 42K on the RL and around 35K on the ES300.
Just bought a 96 RL. Lots of miles (113,000) but in fantastic condition and the price was right (under $10,000). Love the car but have three questions. The owners manual shows that the timing belt doesn't need replacing until 105,000 miles - that seems like a lot - can that be right? Also, I'm told that an Acura dealer can punch in the VIN number and access all service performed at authorized dealers over the history of the car - true? My nearest dealer is two hundred miles away. And finally, I bought the car in Florida where you don't need to display a front license plate. I do in my state but there is no front license plate frame. What do I do?
It's really quite odd how the RL is not selling. Several people...even some who OWN a Mercedes saw my new silver RL and asked me if it was a Mercedes! I believe the RL vs. TL are 2 different classes of cars. Similar to the Jag S vs. Jag X. The new S, by the way, has the EXACT interior of the X, yet obviously they are sold at different price points. But remember the TL doesn't have real wood. And also, the 4 people who bought the TL only prove the car was in their price range. They simply didn't want to spend more for the RL.
I think the ES is a pretty nice car. It has features not found in the RL and vis versa. If you add up all the comparable options in the ES, it will probably cost more than the RL. You can probably get an RL with Nav for 40k.
The ES is a compact car and the RL midsize. The RL will provide a smoother ride over bumps. The RL wheelbase is 114.6 in long and the ES 107.1 inches long.
The RL is a large car with a lot of low end torque. 231 ftlbs @ 2800 vs 220 @ 4400. This provides more useful power during everyday driving.
My advice is to test drive both and buy the one you like the most. Both have a completely different feel.
Before you buy an ES, if that's what you want, look at the bulletin board here for it. Lots of owners are unhappy with the poor transmission and minimal power from the one and only available engine.
Yes, yes, and... time to drill some holes in that bumper I'm right around 100K on my '96 and will be changing the TB shortly. As far as service records go... A dealer should have them in his "central" computer. When I bought my A4, I called the dealer up and was given the exact maintenance history...
I agree that many 02 ES owners are not happy with the new 5 speed transmission, it does not feel as responsive as the RL 4 speed transmission. But I also believe that most of the complains occurred at the very low mileage use of the ES. I luckily owned both RL & ES. I still feel the RL has smoother first to second gear shifting, and the kick-down is more responsive, and ES has unexpected overdrive shifting. Other than these issues, the ES transmission seems to work smoothly, and it is much better now after driving over 5K. The engine power of the ES is fine with me since I don't drive fast and it does have enough power to merge into the traffic, and it is VERY smooth and quiet. I943973, IMHO the ES will not cost more than the RL with comparable options, becuase the fully loaded ES including navigation system is close to 40K (MSRP $39,963), and the fully loaded RL is over 45K. And RL does not even offer some of the ES options(rear sunshade, AVS, wood steering wheel, etc.). If you can get a huge discount on the RL which is very likely, then the purchasing price of RL can be close to the fully loaded ES. If I have to select one from these two fine cars, I will still go with the Lexus if purchasing is required, but go with Acura if leasing is prefered.
I think sliang made a good point. If the RL is priced the same as a fully loaded ES, the RL is a better buy, even though the ES might have better resale value. I heard the nav in the RL is more user friendly than the nav in ES (but the ES also covers Canada), but the highly acclaimed Mark Levinson sound system in the ES will probably beat RL's Bose system hands down. I also like the rear sunshade in ES, but wonder why neither car offers rear heated seats. Since sliang is so lucky to own both cars, perhaps he can share with us his views on how each car handles cornering and emergency maneuvering. I only tested drove the RL and found the steering a bit over assisted; the TL felt tighter and gave a better "road feel". How does the ES feel?
In general, the RL has better road feeling than the ES. But thinking about that the RL is almost 400 lbs heavier than the ES, and the wheel base length of the RL is about 7 inches longer than the ES, all these factors can contribute the better road feel of the RL. If we talk about the tires which I think they are very important to the handling of the car, my ES comes with Toyo high performance tire v-rated(I forget the name of the tire), and RL comes with Michelin MXV4 energy also v-rated, the Toyo tires are much quieter than the Michelin, but do not seem to have the cornering capability as the Michelin. I think Lexus is trying to cut the cost, but they can be replaced later with better tires. Fortunately, my ES has the AVS, and if I set the AVS to a more sporty level, the road feel is actually quite good, it can reach a point where the cornering and emergency maneuvering are better than the RL. And the length of the RL is another disadvantage for maneuvering. As mentioned by kennyg5, the steerling wheel of RL is overpowered so it feels light, not sure whether Acura fixed it for the 02 RL. On the contrary, the ES feels much tighter and precise than the RL, and I like the feel very much. The ES steeling wheel is also smaller than the RL's. IMHO, the ES is more sporty (cannot compete with BMW or other sport sedans though, including Acura TLs), and RL is a luxury crusing sedan. Both cars can be a very good vehicle for daily drive. My last feeling is that the ES ML stereo is really better than the RL BOSE(I listen to the Classical and Jaz music all the time).
I thought i would add my 2 cents to this discussion since we just sold my wife's 1990 legend and purchased the RL instead of the TL-S,the bottom line for us was luxury versus sport. We really liked both cars but the RL is just a better built car and my wife liked the feel of it more when sitting behind the wheel and driving on the road.our 1990 legend had 29,700 miles and was a car owners dream .....no problems at all.This is the 8th acura we've purchased in our family and as a total car line it's pretty hard to beat.
I test drove the 2002 RL yesterday and its performence was excellent except for one point. At times the ride was extremely harsh ie. very taught. Has anyone noticed this? What changes has anyone made to counter this.... I was thinking of changing the tires from the pilot's, a performance tire, to a grand touring tire.
I'll go out and check mine if you want, but I believe all of the '02s that I've seen have the MXV4 tires, and that may make a difference. Or it may be a matter of taste -- in my case I waited for the '02 because of the suspension upgrades (more taut) because I didnt' care for the softer feel of the earlier ones.
vs MB -- interesting: in mid-winter, I was visiting the lux dealer here and parked near the MB shop while I visited the Audis. Afterward, I dropped by to look at the floor models of the Merc. A salesman said:"I thought you'd come back. Since you drive a Mercedes you know their quality." I didin't say a word, but enjoyed the $18k I'd saved vs. the E in his showroom!
Before someone has a hissy fit, I'm not the one comparing the RL to the MB, but they do look alike, and they both do run on six cylinders.
I've always thought RLs used Energy Plus MXV4. Thats what came on my 99 RL. If you want a softer 02 RL ride, maybe you need a higher profile tire.
99-01 RLs used 215/60s on 16x7 inch wheels. I think the 02 wheel size is the same with a more aggresive tire profile. I've thought about getting a lower profile but wasn't sure if 225/60s were too aggresive. I guess its ok since the 02 models use this size.
Lease expires on 99 RL in November. I am not sure what way to turn as there is no new RL on the way soon. Love the RL but the 2002 are not a lot different than what I have now. Few more ponies and better handling, but long for the new car look and feel. Thinking of CL Tyoe S, just for different until redesign comes out. Any opinions....
When I start my 96 RL, I get a rather loud buzzing noise from under the hood that lasts for about 30 to 45 seconds and then goes away. It doesn't happen at the first start-up in the morning, but usually does it for all other start-ups over the course of the day. Anyone have any ideas of what this might be?
Also, I can't get any sound out of my rear speakers, no matter how I adjust the fade. A simple solution or am I off to the dealer?
I'd consider the DNX, but it's too close in style and performance with RL... just kidding! Hey, why do they even bother to show us these cars? It has to be about 4 years+ out, could be killed or changed dramatically before it gets locked in. We want to know 2-6 months out if the RL is getting replaced and we get to see this? I really don't see the value in concept cars. It's like trying to predict the weather 2 years from now!
Ya, concept cars are just "dream" cars, they are not real!! I will be surprised that the new RL will come close to the DNX specs in the next 3 years. I went out yesterday pricing the RL. An automall quoted me a price of $39,500 (with nav); two local acura dealers were slight higher, at about $40k. I have never bought a new car from an automall -- has anyone on the board done that? With the small price difference, I would rather buy from the dealer because of potential after-sale service issues. Assuming I could get a much better price from a distant dealer or automall, would the local dealer be required to perform all guaranteed services? Please advise.
We bought a Jag X from a dealer we knew up in New Hampshire (2 hours away). We live in Massachusetts, 1 mile away from another dealer. Needless to say, there were LOTS of times that we needed a dealer close by, and our local dealer did all the fixes etc...cheerfully, I might add! I just got a new RL (NO problems!) from a local dealer. I guess the advice is to see if the local will match the deal. If not, buy from the further dealer and get it serviced near your house. The dealer is legally obliged, and also, who knows? He may turn you into a customer next time around.
Thanks for your responses and advice. Just now, I was checking to see now Edmunds rates the RL. I was shocked to find out that the editors of Edmunds only gave the RL a value rating of 2 (out of 10). You can check the overall bad rating under www.edmunds.com/new/acura/index.html. I don't think the editors' rating does the RL justice. By the way, the consumers rating is much higher; I believe it is about 9.
I don't Just replaced my auto dimming mirror because it was only dimming 85% of the mirror. I tapped it a few times and now the dimming is 85% gone.
My advice, don't tap it. Anyways, I called about 10 dealers around my area and the lowest price for the rearview mirror was $413.15 not including labor. The original mirror is very difficult to remove but finally got it off after 45 minutes. The acura service manual is wrong. Putting on the new mirror took about 1 minute.
Also my passenger seat panel was creaking on the top front panel below the headrest. Removed the back panel and found out that a metal piece was rubbing against the seat foam when the seat was pressed in. I inserted a piece of felt in between and the creaking is gone. Put back the panel and hopefully saved some money by not going to the dealer.
Also found out my local dealer is selling RL OEM filters for $4.99. Thats a steal.
After 3+ years, I just found out that my rear seat head rests tilt just like the front headrests. Thought that was interesting.
I think AoA is to be partially blamed for the 2 out of 10 rating. Why? Mega incentives (like couple years ago) kill the resale value. I wouldn't want to buy a car for +/- $40K and find out that couple months down the road the same car can be had for $33K. On the other hand, if I am a consumer who just bought a brand spankin' new RL for $33K, I sure will rate the car's value at 9 of 10.
There doesn't seem to be any updated info on the 2003 RL. The dealers claim they don't know anything, and none of the auto magazines or sites have any recent info. Is it typical of Acura/Honda to be so secretive? I'm assuming they don't want to divulge any info so that current sales aren't affected. I'm hoping to buy an RL, but the best prices I'm getting quoted is around $38000 for an RL w/o navigation. Has anyone done any better recently? I'm assuming the 03 RL is either going to have a engine upgrade to 3.8L, or will completely be redesigned. Either scenario should cause Acura to give out incentives to move the car later this summer. Any opinions?
Isn't 38K under invoice? Why not take advantage of that fantastic lease offer? You then have no worry about resale and changes to the car. Just buy a new one after your lease is up. My feeling on popular, kick butt, products like the Honda Odyssey, CRV, and upcoming Pilot is demand is so high that you'll pay MSRP + and that could apply to a popular Rl of the future.
I guess I'm being a little greedy. From the posts I've read from a year ago, they were selling RLs for between 33-36k. I'm hoping it'll come around again. As for the lease offer, if I plan to buy it at lease-end, it will end up costing around $41K ($1499 down + 19462 payments + 20952 purchase at close), not including tax,etc. Not bad, but not tempting enough.
You are correct. But, 41K, which is below MSRP, at lease end is an incredible deal. My problem is I tire of cars easily and there is no way I'd be likely to buy the lease out. I'd be ready for new. But, best of luck to you, my friend.
If you are patient until fall, Acura historically has offered dealer incentives from $3,000 - $5,000 to move out the existing years' inventory. That's why you've seen cars in the 33-36K range. Excellent chance for the dealer incentives to reappear again this fall.
is probably a good way to tell that the new model is 3+/- months from arrival, or so Acura has done it in the past. From what my very reliable dealer says, the new RL is still out to the end of the '03 model run. He also said that the big incentives last year were due to the an "over production" of the model; this time production has stayed down and the lease incentive has been in place all the way through (since a year ago in March). So any incentives will be much less this time, he thinks.
Edmund's doesn't like the car because it doesn't have a V8. But recall the design was intended to compete with cars that were, at that time, 6 cyl. in their base model. It'ws just that the RL doesn't have a V8 or a 'tuner' edition.
I guess one way of finding out whether we could see a "big discount" at year end is to assess the current amount of inventory in the dealers' lots. If the RLs are still not selling well despite very favorable lease deals, chances are there would be many left by year end.
Edmund doesn't simply give the RL a low rating in the power/acceleration department (due to lack of a V-8), 15 of the 25 criteria are rated at 5 or below. IMO, this is harsh. On the other hand, as noted, many consumers very much like or love the car. It seems that these consumers are much more influenced or pleased by the luxury features of the RL than its sportiness. Although I have not done or seen any demographic survey, I would guess that most owners of RLs are more mature (I hate to say older) than those who own TL-S, but they are not as mature as those who own Crown Victorias or Grand Marquises :-) Any thoughts?
You want lux image, get a RL... you want sport image, get a TL-S. RL owner said such to me. Lots of RLs around here in comparison to Lexus LS and other large luxury sedans... RL is affordable, and Honda shouldn't go crazy wasting money to put a V8 into it, unless they have indications it would sell like mad.
In addition to the lack of the V8, Honda's Luxury flagship also lacks the mandatory Rear-wheel-drive (or AWD) layout of a FLAGSHIP Luxury car. Take any Mercedes product or any Lexus product (excluding their low-end near-luxury ES300) or any BMW product or any Infiniti product (except their low-end near-luxury I30) or any Jaguar product...you will not find a Front-wheel-drive layout in any of them (let alone in their FLAGSHIP product).
No premium Luxury car manufacturer, including Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar (hell, even Infiniti) etc., has a FLAGSHIP with a Front-wheel-drive layout, even if we were to discount the absence of the V8. The only luxury car maker that plods on with FWD in its flagship is Cadillac and that is one maker who is a real "has-been" in this field as is rarely taken seriously nowadays.
Front-wheel-drive is okay in a starter product (Near Luxury like the 3.2TL, Lexus ES300, Infiniti I30 etc) in the Luxury line-up but in a FLAGSHIP ?? Not acceptable, in my Lexicon.
A FLAGSHIP product of a company is something extraordinary sporting technology that later on percolates down to the lower-end products, and is manufactured in relatively small numbers. More along the lines of something that one looks forward to owning after one has "really arrived" - an aspirational product. The lower-end 3.2TL/TL-s sports dual-stage variable valve timing technology with a super-broad torque/power band, which works along a 5-speed Adaptive Automatic and what do you find in the FLAGSHIP (3.5RL) ?? A low-tech non-variable valve timing engine with middling power output working with a econo-4-speed Automatic setup. The Acura FLAGSHIP, leaves one with the sense of a pretender. Slightly better than the near-luxury product of theirs (3.2TL) - in some build quality respects, which in my reckoning does not reach the lofty level of the flagship of a Luxury car manufacturer, which is why Acura (inspite of being the Luxury arm of Honda) is considered as a fringe player in the Luxury car arena. This is similar to the position occupied by the large Front-wheel-drive Toyota Avalon in the Toyota lineup. You will not find it anywhere close to a flagship in the Lexus line-up, would you ??
As an aside, I am a Honda fan and in this particular aspect, I am not too impressed with Honda.
Good insights, Hunter. The facts you pointed out might very well be the reasons why the RL is not selling. However, people in my age group with a family and needs a car to take the kids to school and drive around non-agressively on weekends may prefer the luxury amenities of the RL than the sportiness of the TL-s.
I live in the Northeast and so a FWD car makes more sense during the winter time; although an AWD would be great. I don't know if there is any real advantage of RWD over FWD, except as pointed out by Hunter that the prestigious nameplates all have RWD in their flagship cars. That said, I do agree that the RL needs a more advanced engine (does not have to be V-8)such as VTEC and 5-speed transmission. A motorized rear sunshade would also be nice.
Well, I just got home from a rather extensive test drive of the RL and it is very obvious why this auto is not moving: prominent engine and road noise. I was very surprised. Not to mention the head room needs to be expanded. It is too bad. I found it to be very attractive both in and out. Oh, it was very difficult to adjust the power seats with the door closed! No room to place your hand past the arm rest on the door. What kind of design is this?
I think the noise factor in these cars is relative to what one is used to driving. I just traded my 2001 Lexus ES (8600 miles)in for a 2000 RL with 21,000 miles on an even swap. In my view, the RL is a much better overall driving experience than the 2001 ES, more responsive in handling, better ride quality, and most importantly more comfortable driver seat. The ES seat cushions I felt were to short. I will admit that the RL emits a little more road noise into the cabin but that is due I believe to the Michelins. I hear less engine noise at idle and at cruising speed on the RL than the ES but RL has more potent sound upon acceleration. The RL drives more like the larger luxury car that it is while the ES felt more like a Camry with luxury appointments. My only gripe with the RL is the lack of an 8 way power passenger seat which Acura does not put on any of their cars for some poor reason.
I have a 97 RL with 98K on the clock. Just recently it has started to make a groaning noise when I back up. It doesn't do it all the time and I have a suspicion that the front brakes might be dragging a little bit. Anyone else ever have a similar problem? Thanks.
I guess it does matter where you are coming from, but after work, I get off the train and look forward to sitting and driving my new RL I feed it is quiet (very) and the weight just seems to smooth out the road. My father in law joked I should be in an ad for Acura when I said I drive slowly home just to make the ride last longer! I really DON"T know why the car is not selling. They made number 2 in quality...Lexus was 1, Acura split with Infiniti.
I almost bought an RL two years ago and will consider buying a used one next time around. I think it is a great car with great quality. Rear wheel drive doesn't do much for me. I think the supposed additional performance is overrated. I live where there is snow as well.
Everyone I know who has bought an RL has had a high quality car and a great experience. However dealing with the acura dealer in my area...now that's another story.
I would appreciate any feedback both positive & negative on the RL. I plan to test drive an RL next week at an Acura dealer with 34 RLs in stock. What is a good price right now ( less than $ 39,500 ?? ) Thanks in advance.
Comments
Hunter, the car is "cheap" not because it is an abomination, but because it is unpopular. Popularity, however, is no great indicator of value. This is why the RL has been, and continues to be, a vehicle for those who don't need too much "popularity." The word 'disgrace' which you apply to the RL's engine is a word usually applied to teenagers who've stayed out all night, politicians, auto salesmen, and (in my neighborhood) certain clergymen, not engineers. Thank you for not liking the car -- it may encourage Acura to come up with a really passionate redesign. Meanwhile, Acura dealers will give a good price to people like Kenny.
Take care.
Joe W.
Did you know it was basically the same vehicle as the other?
Why did you choose it over the other?
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There is plenty of technology that goes into the RL which makes it much more expensive. I've spent plenty of time in the current generation TL and its nowhere as refined as the RL.
Hunter,
If you don't like the RL, don't buy it. Before purchasing my RL, I only considered a TL because it was in my price range. When I was able to get the RL at invoice, I jumped at the chance. To me an RL is a big upgrade from the TL.
My NSX-T is slower than the M3 and Z06, in 0-60 times, and it has a 90 degree V6, but I certainly wouldn't call it a disgrace. I purchased it for its technology, build quality and fun to drive factor (and, it certainly is fun to drive.
The difficulty is heightened by the fact that the TL is a nice car, has almost all of RL's comfort features and is priced right. Auto makers and dealers expect to make a lot more money in selling luxury cars (such as the RL), but when the market says that the car is not in demand despite moderate price concessions, either the price needs to be further adjusted (as was done in year end 2000) or the car needs to be re-configured and re-engineered. Also, offering attractive lease deals may be unsuitable for certain customers such as myself, who drive no more than 5k miles a year. It is undisputed that the RL is a fine luxury car, however, the current design is more than 6 years old and a new and better design must be implemented soon. Acura should not leave the flagship car in the shadow of its junior siblings -- the TL and the MDX. Nonetheless, I think the RL is probably the right car for me. All I am waiting for is the right deal -- around $37k to $38k(nav included).
Thanks for any help.
The ES is a compact car and the RL midsize. The RL will provide a smoother ride over bumps. The RL wheelbase is 114.6 in long and the ES 107.1 inches long.
The RL is a large car with a lot of low end torque. 231 ftlbs @ 2800 vs 220 @ 4400. This provides more useful power during everyday driving.
My advice is to test drive both and buy the one you like the most. Both have a completely different feel.
The engine power of the ES is fine with me since I don't drive fast and it does have enough power to merge into the traffic, and it is VERY smooth and quiet.
I943973,
IMHO the ES will not cost more than the RL with comparable options, becuase the fully loaded ES including navigation system is close to 40K (MSRP $39,963), and the fully loaded RL is over 45K. And RL does not even offer some of the ES options(rear sunshade, AVS, wood steering wheel, etc.). If you can get a huge discount on the RL which is very likely, then the purchasing price of RL can be close to the fully loaded ES.
If I have to select one from these two fine cars, I will still go with the Lexus if purchasing is required, but go with Acura if leasing is prefered.
If we talk about the tires which I think they are very important to the handling of the car, my ES comes with Toyo high performance tire v-rated(I forget the name of the tire), and RL comes with Michelin MXV4 energy also v-rated, the Toyo tires are much quieter than the Michelin, but do not seem to have the cornering capability as the Michelin. I think Lexus is trying to cut the cost, but they can be replaced later with better tires.
Fortunately, my ES has the AVS, and if I set the AVS to a more sporty level, the road feel is actually quite good, it can reach a point where the cornering and emergency maneuvering are better than the RL. And the length of the RL is another disadvantage for maneuvering.
As mentioned by kennyg5, the steerling wheel of RL is overpowered so it feels light, not sure whether Acura fixed it for the 02 RL. On the contrary, the ES feels much tighter and precise than the RL, and I like the feel very much. The ES steeling wheel is also smaller than the RL's.
IMHO, the ES is more sporty (cannot compete with BMW or other sport sedans though, including Acura TLs), and RL is a luxury crusing sedan. Both cars can be a very good vehicle for daily drive.
My last feeling is that the ES ML stereo is really better than the RL BOSE(I listen to the Classical and Jaz music all the time).
vs MB -- interesting: in mid-winter, I was visiting the lux dealer here and parked near the MB shop while I visited the Audis. Afterward, I dropped by to look at the floor models of the Merc. A salesman said:"I thought you'd come back. Since you drive a Mercedes you know their quality." I didin't say a word, but enjoyed the $18k I'd saved vs. the E in his showroom!
Before someone has a hissy fit, I'm not the one comparing the RL to the MB, but they do look alike, and they both do run on six cylinders.
Take care.
Joe W.
99-01 RLs used 215/60s on 16x7 inch wheels. I think the 02 wheel size is the same with a more aggresive tire profile. I've thought about getting a lower profile but wasn't sure if 225/60s were too aggresive. I guess its ok since the 02 models use this size.
Both a 215/60 and 225/55 tire can be used on 16x7 inch wheels with little change on the speedometer.
http://www.hondanews.com
400 horsepower, mid-engine, all-wheel-drive hybrid powertrain including:
o 3.5-liter, DOHC, i-VTEC V-6 engine
o Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) system
o 6-speed clutchless manual transmission with automatic-shift mode
Independent double wishbone suspension
Wheels and Tires:
o 18-inch alloy wheels with 225/45ZR18 tires/front
o 19-inch alloy wheels with 255/45ZR19 tires/rear
Electro-Mechanical Brake (EMB) System with 4-wheel disc brakes
Steer-by-wire with variable power assist
Active Torque Transfer System (ATTS)
Variable Stability Assist (VSA)
Intelligent Driver Support System
o Front and rear cameras
o Adaptive Cruise Control
o Lane Keeping System
Intelligent Technology instrument panel
o 3-D display meter, center display and pop-up information monitor with voice recognition
o Night vision, GPS navigation, e-mail, Internet, cellular telephone
Individual bucket seats
Active Headlights for enhanced vision around corners
Night Vision system with infrared camera
Ultra-aerodynamic body with integrated front upper spoiler
Touch sensor door switches
Variable dimming window glass blocks infrared and ultra-violet light
Just joking. RE: the above posts -- I wish!!!
Take care.
Joe w.
Also, I can't get any sound out of my rear speakers, no matter how I adjust the fade. A simple solution or am I off to the dealer?
Thanks greatly for any help anyone might have.
Just replaced my auto dimming mirror because it was only dimming 85% of the mirror. I tapped it a few times and now the dimming is 85% gone.
My advice, don't tap it. Anyways, I called about 10 dealers around my area and the lowest price for the rearview mirror was $413.15 not including labor. The original mirror is very difficult to remove but finally got it off after 45 minutes.
The acura service manual is wrong. Putting on the new mirror took about 1 minute.
Also my passenger seat panel was creaking on the top front panel below the headrest. Removed the back panel and found out that a metal piece was rubbing against the seat foam when the seat was pressed in. I inserted a piece of felt in between and the creaking is gone. Put back the panel and hopefully saved some money by not going to the dealer.
Also found out my local dealer is selling RL OEM filters for $4.99. Thats a steal.
After 3+ years, I just found out that my rear seat head rests tilt just like the front headrests. Thought that was interesting.
Edmund's doesn't like the car because it doesn't have a V8. But recall the design was intended to compete with cars that were, at that time, 6 cyl. in their base model. It'ws just that the RL doesn't have a V8 or a 'tuner' edition.
Take care.
Joe W.
Edmund doesn't simply give the RL a low rating in the power/acceleration department (due to lack of a V-8), 15 of the 25 criteria are rated at 5 or below. IMO, this is harsh. On the other hand, as noted, many consumers very much like or love the car. It seems that these consumers are much more influenced or pleased by the luxury features of the RL than its sportiness. Although I have not done or seen any demographic survey, I would guess that most owners of RLs are more mature (I hate to say older) than those who own TL-S, but they are not as mature as those who own Crown Victorias or Grand Marquises :-) Any thoughts?
Lots of RLs around here in comparison to Lexus LS and other large luxury sedans... RL is affordable, and Honda shouldn't go crazy wasting money to put a V8 into it, unless they have indications it would sell like mad.
No premium Luxury car manufacturer, including Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar (hell, even Infiniti) etc., has a FLAGSHIP with a Front-wheel-drive layout, even if we were to discount the absence of the V8. The only luxury car maker that plods on with FWD in its flagship is Cadillac and that is one maker who is a real "has-been" in this field as is rarely taken seriously nowadays.
Front-wheel-drive is okay in a starter product (Near Luxury like the 3.2TL, Lexus ES300, Infiniti I30 etc) in the Luxury line-up but in a FLAGSHIP ?? Not acceptable, in my Lexicon.
A FLAGSHIP product of a company is something extraordinary sporting technology that later on percolates down to the lower-end products, and is manufactured in relatively small numbers. More along the lines of something that one looks forward to owning after one has "really arrived" - an aspirational product. The lower-end 3.2TL/TL-s sports dual-stage variable valve timing technology with a super-broad torque/power band, which works along a 5-speed Adaptive Automatic and what do you find in the FLAGSHIP (3.5RL) ?? A low-tech non-variable valve timing engine with middling power output working with a econo-4-speed Automatic setup. The Acura FLAGSHIP, leaves one with the sense of a pretender. Slightly better than the near-luxury product of theirs (3.2TL) - in some build quality respects, which in my reckoning does not reach the lofty level of the flagship of a Luxury car manufacturer, which is why Acura (inspite of being the Luxury arm of Honda) is considered as a fringe player in the Luxury car arena. This is similar to the position occupied by the large Front-wheel-drive Toyota Avalon in the Toyota lineup. You will not find it anywhere close to a flagship in the Lexus line-up, would you ??
As an aside, I am a Honda fan and in this particular aspect, I am not too impressed with Honda.
Later...AH
I live in the Northeast and so a FWD car makes more sense during the winter time; although an AWD would be great. I don't know if there is any real advantage of RWD over FWD, except as pointed out by Hunter that the prestigious nameplates all have RWD in their flagship cars. That said, I do agree that the RL needs a more advanced engine (does not have to be V-8)such as VTEC and 5-speed transmission. A motorized rear sunshade would also be nice.
Have you seen the Letter from the Town Hall Manager on the Town Hall Welcome page? If not, you might want to follow that link to have a look.
And hang on to your seats. Change is never easy - for any of us - but resolving the Search problems we've had will be worth the pain.
Pat
Sedans Host
Everyone I know who has bought an RL has had a high quality car and a great experience. However dealing with the acura dealer in my area...now that's another story.