is put it in writing yourself. When I got my van back in '99 (pre-email saavy dealer days), I put a fax together with what I was willing to pay.
If the dealer verbally agrees to your offer but won't confirm in writing, put it in writing yourself. You could say something like this is your understanding of the deal and if some term is missing, to contact you immediately.
Then when you get the run-around, you have some nice correspondence to send to the GM, owner, regional rep, the newspaper, Attorney General, etc.... :-)
It's really sad if you have to go to this extreme, but it sounds like some dealers/salepeople are in the dark ages when it comes to straight shooting on the car lot. No wonder people hope Wal-Mart gets into the car business!
thanks for the info on Bennett's...did consider doing business with them until i read about all the horror stories. Also to aalvilla ...tell your friend to try Mike Piazza Honda in Laughorne PA the guy in the internet dept. gave me a good price for Odyssey lx for 22900 and ex 25,760 plus 460 destination charge.
I don't know beans about Bennett, but if you call the dealer (any dealer) and ask the person who answers the phone who they recommend as the best salesperson around there to deal with, you usually will get a straight answer. After all, if the salesperson treats the help good and earns that kind of referral, they are more likely to be straight with you.
Just got back from my local Toyota Dealer. He can sell me a XLE Limited with rear DVD and Nav for $1500 off the sticker. ANyone seen a better deal in Houston?
Based off of my own negative experience with one dealer, if you haven't already done so, I strongly recommend you have the dealer put a drive-out price to that "$1,500 under sticker".
I had one dealer say he would sell me a 2004 Sienna for "$200 over invoice". The only problem was, the "invoice" price I was talking about, from Edmunds.com and a few other car sites that all matched, was $1,300 under the "invoice" price he allegedly had, after he added all the "extras" like undercoating, VIN etching... When it came down to it, he wanted to sell the vehicle to me for $1,500 over the invoice I was talking about.
blandfordm - sounds like you got a deal about $1500 off the MSRP too ($1500 over REAL invoice is about $1500 under sticker????) - but that price is minus all the VIN, undercoating etc? The deal I have is a bona fide $1500 off the sticker - drive out, he wont charge me all the dealer tricks, aout $1600 worth of VIN etch, rust/sound proof and a wax job. This van is not on his lot and takes 2 weeks. Maybe this has a BIG effect on whether you pay near invoice or near sticker?
I bought my Sienna at Toyota of Washington, Pa. A bit of a drive from Pgh but at the time I was looking they were the only dealership that had one to test drive. They were being allocated an XLE and I was able to change the color and option package to what I wanted before it was shipped to the dealership. All the dealers I spoke with locally wouldn't budge off MSRP, since if you said no they'd sell it to the next person who walked in the dealership. I have since been getting calls from other dealers about XLE's that are about to arrive and not yet sold. From what I have heard, Toyota is planning to produce more Siennas than Honda does Odyssey's, so by fall the supply may meet or exceed demand.
As far as Honda not budging much off MSRP, this is the first I have heard of them budging at all. Until the Sienna came out, there was typically at least a 6-8 week wait in Western Pa for an Odyssey, and now most of the dealers have at least 2-3 in stock. Once there are more Siennas available and the Odysseys sit untouched, you'll probably see the Honda dealers change their tune.
giving best deal is Bennett Toyota in Allentown, PA which is $850 above Invoice. But after reading the experience from one of the members on this forum, I am not fully comfortable in dealing with them. Infact, I am looking for CE W/ PKG# 3 & as per Toyota they will custom make it for me in 16 weeks. I also spoke with Bennett Toyota and was even ready to place order for LE 8 Pass w/Pkg# 7 instead. But their price included about $520 holdover cost in invoice price and hence above my budget. So when I emailed to place order for CE W/PKG# 3, they have not got back to me. Even I will not buy or call them again if in-case they don't have time to respond my Request for Order Information. Now that I have heard negative about them, I am thinking of not doing business with them even if they call me with information that I requested. I believe that Business is a 2-street, and if they don't me then I don't need them either.
We have been dealing with Bennett for about 2 months now. We are eagerly awaiting that phone call when our van is ready to be picked up. When we originally heard (read) about the $850 over invoice, we called and they denied that deal. Since we were driving up one weekend to visit family anyways, we decided to visit Bennet anyways. Brought a printout of the post with the deal Bennet was offering. The Sales lady said no problem, and when we told her exactly what van we wanted, Le-7 with #8 she wrote up the quote, itemized 26434.00 not including the taxes and $154 of dealer handeling and Pa reg. fee. The $500 deposit is refundable if the van that comes is not what we want since the extra packages are not predictleble. If we do not want that van with any of the extra packages we could wait for the next, or we could pay for those extas at cost. The itemized contract that we signed does state the refund on the back if the vehicle comes in at a higher price than quoted, (hence the extras). So far the only complaint that I have about Bennett is the time frame, but I am willing to be patient for the deal that I am getting. My hubby and I were talking about not wanting to drive two vehicles back from Pa(no trade, three hours). I thought maybe renting a car for the five of us to go one way might be the best. Hubby called up and talked with our Sales lady and she offered to check with Enterprise to see if she could get a better rental price than listed on the net. As far as I am concerned, that is not necessary, but definatly good customer service. I have read several positive posts about Bennett, but only one negative. To me that is still a good track record. The difference with us I guess is that we were hesitant about dealing on the phone and the net, and to everyone's suggestion, dealing in person is always better. I am not trying to defend Bennetts actions, but OUR experience sofar.... has been good. It does make me sad to hear(read) of all the folks paying MSRP when others are getting better. I just means that the dealerships will be able to get away with it for longer. Good luck and I will keep everyone "posted" .
6year or 7 year extended warranties is actually a misnomer. You are covered under the factory warranty for 3-5 years (powertrain I believe is 5 years). So you are REALLY only paying for for only 2-3 years extended warranty....
If you have a major breakdown (over $1000) during those years, you end up making your money back (and then some)... BUT make no mistake about it... Selling extended warranties is one of the biggest money makers for the dealers!
Do you mind telling us what you paid for an XLE in Washington? I'm interested to see how much off of MSRP dealers in the greater Pittsburgh area are willing to go.
I'm a first timer here so please suffer my ignorance and take it easy on me. I've done some shopping and found a dealer taking orders for '04 Siennas in Houston and charging $1000 over Dealer invoice. Sounds great but the invoice number he gave me ($30,126) and the invoice number I've calculated (~$29,014.50) differ by $1,111.50. Here's a breakdown with (I) being invoice and (R) being retail: XLE Fwd (I)$25,150 (R)$28,260 Destination (I)$510 (R)$510 Tx Freight Charge (I)$25 (R)$25 Pkg #12 (I)$3,148 (R)$3,875 Carpet Mats (I)$181.50 (R)$225 Running Boards (I) ? (R)$599 Rear Mudguards (I) ? (R)$89 Total (I)~$29,014.50 (R)$33,583
I can't find invoice price for the running boards but find it hard to believe the Running Boards and Rear Mudguards account for the $1,111.50 discrepency! He assured me nothing more would be added than what I ordered it with. The $1000 over this Dealer invoice is $31,126, still a good deal but I'm wary of this dealer if he's misleading me about his numbers. Any advice out there?
$571 Estimated TDA for Houston (TDA is Toyota's advertising price, it is region specific and is not negotiable. It's a line item on Toyota's, other build it into their base invoice.)
$201 Estimated Holdback (also a line item in Toyota's invoice.)
Estimated Invoice Total $30,126
Edmunds and KBB doesn't include TDA, MAF and ETC in their invoice prices. You can get estimated TDA numbers from http://www.carsdirect.com. Hope that helps.
Thanks, kgnw1. I'm assuming these charges are legit. I'll be ordering from this dealer, I need a $500 deposit though, which he says is fully refundable. We'll see...
Have them fax you the invoice. Should be pretty similar to invoice prices I gave you. You may be able to negotiate the hold back. I didn't have to pay this on my deal, only TDA. Also have them fax you the deal in writing on letterhead with a signature before sending any money.
It looks like a pretty good deal at this stage in the game. Hopefully they are allocating the van for you and give you a delivery date within a reasonable amount of time. (Less than 90 days.)
From recent postings, none of the Pittsburgh dealers are essentially going below MSRP. Airport Toyota was going to offer me $500 under MSRP, but was going to give me next to nothing on trade-in (if they don't get you one place they'll get you the other). My advice is that if you want a Sienna now, expect to pay MSRP, take a hit on trade-in or get hit on aftermarket items. If you can wait until the fall, the pricing should be more reasonable.
kgnw1, I understand the TDA but why we have to pay for the holdback. Isn't the money the Toy manufacturer refund to dealer? If it's true, then the dealer would get the holdback both from manufacture and consumer.... Machinemata: what dealer in Houston offered you invoice + 1K? I am searching a decent deal in Houston too. Thanks if you can disclose the dealer's name.
How about emailing me the name of the salesman you dealt with at Rice Toyota. The people I talked to denied they sold any 2004 Sienna for $500 over invoice. Thanks.
hislander, I emailed 22 dealers total in Houston, Dallas, Waco, Killeen, Temple, Austin, San Antonio, Corpus Christi, and the Rio Grande Valley. As you can see, I don't mind traveling for a good deal. The dealer taking orders for $1000 over Dealer Invoice in Houston is Mike Calvert Toyota. Fowler Toyota in Dallas is also taking orders for $1000 over Dealer invoice, but I'm going with Houston thinking they'll get first dibs on vans since they are arriving at the Houston port. If you decide to go with Calvert in Houston, check my profile and mention my name. Maybe if they know they are getting some internet exposure, they won't try any add on tricks when it comes time to pick up the van! Let me know of your experience. About dealer holdback, I thought it was already included in the invoice and gets refunded back to the dealer after 90 days. If that's the case, then the holdback is paid to the dealer by the consumer and manufacturer! kgnw1, what gives? Any idea?
Toyota itemizes all the charges into their invoice price. Other manufactures just build it into their base invoice price. So Toyota is trying to show you the cost in their invoice.
Here's how my van broke down:
5356 XLE LTD FWD $29,652 HE Pkg #4 $1400 RB Running Boards $399 (Sorry machinemata I gave you the wrong price) CF Carpet Floor Mats $119
So my invoice was $33801. My final deal was 2% over $34,477.
Toyota just shows on their invoice that the dealer will get $689 (2.3%) back on my deal. They will also get $344 back for the Whsl. Financial Reserve.
WFR is a charge normally used to floor the vehicle. It includes detailing, pre-delivery service and interest charges for keeping the vehicle on the lot. Most of the time if a vehicle has been sitting on the lot, the dealer doesn't make any money on this.
TDA is more of a mystery. I don't know if a dealer gets any of this money back, but Toyota uses this for the TV commercials, magazine ads, etc.
Thanks for sharing your experience about Bennett toyota....After reading about all the negative experiences I think I will pass on them. But the search for anything but MSRP continues! Will the prices go down in the fall? Since I am not in a rush should I wait? Or should I expand my search area? Any thoughts?
I just ordered an XLE with package #5 (traction control, stability control, side curtain air bags, moon roof but NO leather). Has anyone else ordered one of these and how long did it take you to get delivery?
Thanks Budzy1, I sent an email to Steve and I will see what he come back with. I think his dealership is actually not too far from me. How much did you end up paying?
I purchased a Camry from Bennett Toyota a few years back and I'd like to offer one additional word of caution.
When negotiating with them (and any other dealer) tell them you want an "out the door" price. After I agreed to a selling price they tried to add in a Toyota regional advertising fee when I returned a few days later to sign the paperwork. While this charge was most likely legitimate I took offense at the way they attempted to pass it on to me. They told me it was non negotiable. Since they were still holding my deposit check I asked for my check back as I got up to leave. Only then did they agree to eliminate the charge.
If they would have told me about this fee upfront I would not have been opposed to paying it but I would have included it on my comparative price quotes from the different dealers that I was shopping.
Bennett has been in business for many years (25+) and also has Infiniti, Jaguar, and Chevy franchises that I'm aware of.
There have been a couple of recent postings about Bennett Toyota. I guess this highlights the point steve made: It mostly depends on the salesperson you deal with.
My experience with Bennett was very satisfactory. The internet manager contacted me about a van he had in stock, in the color I wanted. It had some $350 of options that I didnt want, but I accepted the deal when he offered me the options at invoice. Plus, I was taking delivery of the van next day-not 3 months later.
I talked with the salesperson by phone some 15 minutes-we negotiated the number ($850 over invoice)-I told hime I will not give my credit-card number until he faxed over the "drive-out" numbers, which he did. I went over the numbers-checked them against the invoice listed on Edmunds-saw that there wasnt any extraneous additions on the fax other than the Tax+TTL and a $59 dealer handling fee (a small sum to really bicker about).
I then called him, and made sure that he wasnt going to spring any additional fees when I come in to the dealership, and only then gave my credit-card number. As a matter of principle, I had even steeled myself to walking away from the deal if he had sprung any fees on me. But it never came to that (and I never went through the pain of fighting for the refund). The next day, he was true to his word. Everything was above board-no extra fees and the whole transaction was done without any problem.
Of course, from my calculations-I knew he was holding on to the holdback+Wholesale FInancial Reserve), which came to a handsome profit (See my earlier posting#1412), based on the invoice number implicit in the drive-out price. But, atleast his profit wasnt as insane as the other dealers who were asking MSRP. I've heard dealers almost never deal on the holdback and the Sienna is a hot vehicle right now, so I figured there is no point in even talking about it.
I think one of the main reasons I am happy with my purchasing experience, is that he had the van in stock, and thus a VIN# and a list of options that I could make a decision about, as opposed to booking for a vehicle which has not even been built, dont know what sort of options it has, and the possibility of "change of mind" on both parties (dealer could decide he'd like to make more profit or the customer could decide, he'll get a cheaper price elsewhere) and thus the ensuing heartburns because one of the parties to renege on the deal.
So, all in all, I think I was very happy with Bennett probably because the salesperson was straight-forward with me.
You still haven't explain why you paid for the dealer holdback. You said the invoice showed that the dealler will get $689 back from your deal. I assumed "get back" from Toyota manufacturer; so the dealer got paid twice for the holdback then. In addition, I thought the holdback money is to pay for floor cost, interest and so on...then why pay the Wholesale Financial Reserve. I never paid for holdback/financial reserve when I bought the Hilander two year ago. Just paid the TDA. Correct me if I am wrong.
holdback isn't collected twice. If a dealer buys the vehicle from the manufacturer for 10k the invoice will show 10k plus 3% holdback which is 10300. The dealer finances 10300 even though they purchased the vehicle for 10k and the dealer gets refunded their $300 holdback. The holdback is not a magical amount that is given to the dealer from the manufacturer for selling the car. The holdback is used for everyday costs of doing business such as power, salaries, etc. and anything over that figure should be profit. Hope this helps.
In this case, if the invoice showed 10300 then I should only pay 10300. If the invoice showed 10K, then I have to add 300.....So it depends on whether the invoice provided by the dealer has already included the holdback....That would make sense to me but still the Financial Reserve?? Another profit to them !!!!
Since you mention you can wait, I would definitely wait if I were you because by then dealers will have LE AND CE's on Lots too and I am sure you will find deals 2% above invoice or maybe even cheaper because in reality even at 0% financing Auto sales are down. And Sienna is an exception because it is a NEW model. But dealers in NJ have couple of vans in their lots especially XLE'S higher end models. So they are either selling at MSRP or few hundred $s off MSRP. It was not same with ODYSSEY, as dealers did not have SHOWROOM display van for 2 years. Considering the present auto sales and toyota's target of producing 150k vans per year, I am sure we the consumers will have chance to pick our choice of Van right off dealers lots by the year's end. Moreover, Summer will be gone which also is the time when minivan sales are always UP.
For your information, there were 3 dealers in PA., who were giving 2% above Invoice Deals, but 2 of them went back to MSRP. And Bennett Toyota increased their offer from 2% to straight 850 above invoice + started being Arrogant & showing some Attitude because LOTS of people from this FORUM calling them and NO ONE else giving this deal. I am still willing to place order from them provided they get back to me with information I requested and fax me all details like others have recommended before giving credit card number. Also agree that deposit is refundable if I do not like the van in Test-Drive before delivery because some people have already had transmission problem as I already have 4 vehicles with transmission problems.
Is included in the invoice for all manufacturers that use it. I think the confusion with Toyota comes in becasue they break it out. So, if invoice is 20,000, and holdback is $500, they show $19,500 + 500 = 20,000. Other companies would just show the 20K.
It is a real cost that the dealer pays to Toyota when they buy (or more accuratly finance) the cars when they get them.
Yes, other companies (manufacturers) would just show the invoice without disclosing the holdback info. The problem is: their INVOICE price matches what is on Edmunds and/or Kelley's blue book. While in the case of some Toyota dealers, their INVOICE price is Edmunds and/or Kelley's blue book + DEALER HOLDBACK. Who should the consumer trust??? Edmunds / Kelley's blue book or... the Dealers??? Tough decision...
LE Package #1: Includes Trip Computer/Homelink, Power Right Passenger Sliding Door, Rear Seat Audio Preferred Owner''s Portfolio Wireless Headphones (Pair) Preferred Accessory Package 1
Price: $25,435
Price includes all freight/destination charges and excludes taxes, tags and titling fee.
is it a good price or am i paying too much
2.i sent a email to Toyota National Head quarters about the options selection they are saying that i can choose whatever i want not as per delear suggestion even we can buy Sienna without rear seat audio, Trip Computer
It looks like the Sienna has won me over. I was originally loking at low-end Highlander for my expanding family, but for about the same price I can get the CE Sienna with package #3. Of course the big deal now is when can I expect to wait until for the best deal? Winter? Spring?
We are not in HUGE hurry and are looking to leverage any bonus at end of year (cross fingers) to increase the down payment. If I had to wait until Spring I would use the tax refund too. But based on the appeal of Sienna AND the economy - what are you folks seeing as the optimal time to buy. I know convertibles are great to buy in winter, and SUV's are pricier in winter, but when are prime time minivan buying times? Being as its a 2004, I cant even go by the 'they are looking to get next year's models in' unless its a 2004.5.
I spoke to a salesman at Sloane Toyota in Devon, Pennsylvania (Main Line Philly suburb) this weekend about the XLE Limited AWD model. He said there's at least a 12-15 week wait for that model and that they're charging the MSRP ($41,000). He said he would take a no obligation order for one for $500. He didn't have any Siennas in stock to even look at (let alone test drive). He said he might have an LE coming in this week that someone ordered, but he's got a list of people who want to come in just to look at it before he delivers it to the owner.
you to please read post#1496 in which I have written my opinion about waiting if you could, and it's rewards. First, Toyota is not making CE PKG.#3 yet, but they will custom make it for you in 16 weeks in factory & equip options at their port(another factory of toyota to install options). In Model CE PKG.#3 is same as PKG.#7 in Model LE, Both packages have VSC, Traction-Control, Side curtain Airbags from safety point of view plus many other items. Although I am told by senior officer at Toyota's NJ regional office, I am NOT convinced that Side airbags, VSC and Traction control could be installed at Port factory. So I have decided to wait if I want CE till Toyota Offers in My New Jersey Mkt. However, I am considering to go for LE pkg.#7 since I will have wait for it too (6-8 weeks for delivery). But Bennett Toyota salesperson has not got back to me , so I don't want to call him because they have already begun Acting up a little recently based on some posts on this forum. Like I said before, Business is a 2 way street so I want them to call me as I did initially call them. Honestly, I hope another dealer starts giving same or better price, so people at Bennett get back to Normal. Like they say Competition make you Perfect. Like you said, SUVs are in demand in Winter, I would say VANS are in Demand whole Year, But they are Most in Demand in SUMMER, because Most of Us go on long trips in Summer. And since you could wait I am sure by the Year's End you will be able to pick the Van of your choice right from the Dealers Lot at probably 2,3 or 4% over Invoice. And if you can wait more, till next spring when it will be 1 year old model, You will also get lot of mistakes fixed which are usually higher in it's introductory year with every model & make.
To TOM4365, I would suggest you to contact internet sales manager at Bennett Toyota in Allentown, PA who are giving any model at $850 above Invoice. In your case it will be substantial savings because of very high MSRP. Remember, Edmunds Invoice & Dealers Invoice Price is not same because edmunds does not contain wholesale fin'l reserve, TDA fees etc. So do not be surprised if Dealers invoice is higher by few hundred dollars. Since you live in Philly, I am sure Bennett must be at reasonable driving distance. But please read both -ve & +ve reactions from members in last 8-10 days and then decide to contact Bennett Toyota. GOOD LUCK to both of you.
syjames1 - The headlights are automatically on everytime you start the car when you set the headlight switch at DRL. It can be turn on when turn it to DRL off. Well, I should say it can't be functioned like headlights. It is too dim, just enough for driver on the opposite side to see you. It is not bright enough to light the road. The tail lights and dash lights are not on when the DRL is on. I don't know why. Don't they realize there are cars behind you as well? Anyway, I don't use it too often and it is not required by the state law.
I prefer those auto headlamps on my Kia Sorento. There is no DRL. But when I set it AUTO, the headlights (low bean) will turn on automatically like enter a tunnel, highway overpass and at dusk.
Can you both please give me the name and number of the sales person you dealt with? Also can you give the model and the price you paid? Thank you:) You can e-mail me at suni0709@yahoo.com
sr15, in your post #1412, you mentioned that TDA was included in your dealer's invoice price. However, in your post you also mentioned about post #1410 which stated that TDA was added on top of the dealer's invoice price. I belive both you and #1410 dealt with Bennett Toyota. Could it be that you made the smartest decision by insisting the sales to fax you detailed invoice before agreeing to deal with them, so they could not pull the trick on you? (I am still kicking myself for not learning from you :-)
Well, here is my point, if we just focus on the out of door price, then Sienna dealers' invoice price (inovice + TDA + dealer holdback + whsl fin. res + destination charge) is nearly $500 more than Edmunds' quote of invoice + destination charge. This may not mean much to people who make Sienna their only choice of minivan, since most Toyota dealers may be playing the same number game. However, in the case of Mazda MPV, what you see on Edmunds agrees with what the dealers ask for. I don't have experience with Ody dealers but based on the Ody consumer discussion board it should be similar to the case of MPV. Just my $0.02.
cw11: I think you must have misunderstood me. The holdback+WhlsFinReserve is whats included in the base Invoice price listed on Edmunds. TDA is actually missing in the Edmunds quote. I believe they state that in some extremely tiny fine print someplace. That is why you have the difference of ~$500. Though I'm not sure what's happening with the Mazda case.
Everybody's pays TDA (atleast right now). I factored it in too (and it agreed with the final numbers Bennett faxed me). In the fax, there was just the retail price (which implicitly included everything:ActualInvoice+Holdback+WhlsFinResrv+TDA(~$465)+DestCha- - rge+$850)+Tax+Title+License Fees.
All I ensured was that the retail price in the fax, matched my own calculated Drive-out price, before giving my credit-card#. I think my calculation and their retail price was off by some $15 in my favor.
TDA or Toyota Dealer Advertising, is charged to all Toyota dealers and varies depending on location of dealership. This is the cost to dealers for national advertising programs on TV and in the papers. Most other auto makers hid the cost in the vehcile base price. Toyota chooses to break it out because the charge varies by region, other auto makers that build it in must have a flat rate. From what I have seen many dealers will not negotiate on this. But you can rest assured if they do they will make up for it somewhere else. They all have a bottom line for which they will sell a car for and will get it one way or another. That is why many people say the out the door price is what you should concern yourself with and not what makes up this amount. In Canada dealers do not show you their invoice price hense we have been schooled in getting the best out the door price. Hope this helps as I have seen many posts where buyers are getting caught up on one aspect of the price and not the final figure they are willing to pay. That is why one person may say I didn't pay that but someone else did but the out the door ptice may have been the same.
Last I looked at a map Indiana & Illinois were adjoined. I hae browsed many local Toyota dealers and the inventory is non-existent. When one comes in they easily can push MSRP. Heart set on Sienna 2004, but 2003 Town & Country looking more like reality. Any hints- worth the wait?
Very, very hard to find an AWD limited. One dealer can get one from another state for $38,000 with DVD System. No transportation fees or any added cost. Would take 3-4 weeks to get it here. What do other AWD Limited owners think? Decent deal? Need to make decision. Thanks
Comments
If the dealer verbally agrees to your offer but won't confirm in writing, put it in writing yourself. You could say something like this is your understanding of the deal and if some term is missing, to contact you immediately.
Then when you get the run-around, you have some nice correspondence to send to the GM, owner, regional rep, the newspaper, Attorney General, etc.... :-)
It's really sad if you have to go to this extreme, but it sounds like some dealers/salepeople are in the dark ages when it comes to straight shooting on the car lot. No wonder people hope Wal-Mart gets into the car business!
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
I had one dealer say he would sell me a 2004 Sienna for "$200 over invoice". The only problem was, the "invoice" price I was talking about, from Edmunds.com and a few other car sites that all matched, was $1,300 under the "invoice" price he allegedly had, after he added all the "extras" like undercoating, VIN etching... When it came down to it, he wanted to sell the vehicle to me for $1,500 over the invoice I was talking about.
As far as Honda not budging much off MSRP, this is the first I have heard of them budging at all. Until the Sienna came out, there was typically at least a 6-8 week wait in Western Pa for an Odyssey, and now most of the dealers have at least 2-3 in stock. Once there are more Siennas available and the Odysseys sit untouched, you'll probably see the Honda dealers change their tune.
Infact, I am looking for CE W/ PKG# 3 & as per Toyota they will custom make it for me in 16 weeks. I also spoke with Bennett Toyota and was even ready to place order for LE 8 Pass w/Pkg# 7 instead. But their price included about $520 holdover cost in invoice price and hence above my budget.
So when I emailed to place order for CE W/PKG# 3, they have not got back to me. Even I will not buy or call them again if in-case they don't have time to respond my Request for Order Information.
Now that I have heard negative about them, I am thinking of not doing business with them even if they call me with information that I requested.
I believe that Business is a 2-street, and if they don't me then I don't need them either.
When we originally heard (read) about the $850 over invoice, we called and they denied that deal. Since we were driving up one weekend to visit family anyways, we decided to visit Bennet anyways. Brought a printout of the post with the deal Bennet was offering.
The Sales lady said no problem, and when we told her exactly what van we wanted, Le-7 with #8 she wrote up the quote, itemized 26434.00 not including the taxes and $154 of dealer handeling and Pa reg. fee. The $500 deposit is refundable if the van that comes is not what we want since the extra packages are not predictleble.
If we do not want that van with any of the extra packages we could wait for the next, or we could pay for those extas at cost. The itemized contract that we signed does state the refund on the back if the vehicle comes in at a higher price than quoted, (hence the extras).
So far the only complaint that I have about Bennett is the time frame, but I am willing to be patient for the deal that I am getting.
My hubby and I were talking about not wanting to drive two vehicles back from Pa(no trade, three hours). I thought maybe renting a car for the five of us to go one way might be the best. Hubby called up and talked with our Sales lady and she offered to check with Enterprise to see if she could get a better rental price than listed on the net. As far as I am concerned, that is not necessary, but definatly good customer service.
I have read several positive posts about Bennett, but only one negative. To me that is still a good track record. The difference with us I guess is that we were hesitant about dealing on the phone and the net, and to everyone's suggestion, dealing in person is always better. I am not trying to defend Bennetts actions, but OUR experience sofar.... has been good.
It does make me sad to hear(read) of all the folks paying MSRP when others are getting better. I just means that the dealerships will be able to get away with it for longer.
Good luck and I will keep everyone "posted" .
Here is what I have so far from a dealer in the Washington DC/MD/VA area:
Platinum -
6yr/100k miles - $930
7yr/100k miles - $1130
Has anyone else gotten any better deals out there?
From what I understand, I can buy from any state via a credit card so I am just looking for the cheapest deal.
I don't think I want to go with Warranty Direct or those other aftermarket warranty companies because I don't know if I trust them....
If you have a major breakdown (over $1000) during those years, you end up making your money back (and then some)... BUT make no mistake about it... Selling extended warranties is one of the biggest money makers for the dealers!
Do you mind telling us what you paid for an XLE in Washington? I'm interested to see how much off of MSRP dealers in the greater Pittsburgh area are willing to go.
Powertrain for 5 years is good but if your computer, or those doors break down, it can cost some big dollars...
So $900 for years 4, 5, and 6 don't seem too bad. You are right, it only extends the powertrain 1 year with the 6 year warr.
XLE Fwd (I)$25,150 (R)$28,260
Destination (I)$510 (R)$510
Tx Freight Charge (I)$25 (R)$25
Pkg #12 (I)$3,148 (R)$3,875
Carpet Mats (I)$181.50 (R)$225
Running Boards (I) ? (R)$599
Rear Mudguards (I) ? (R)$89
Total (I)~$29,014.50 (R)$33,583
I can't find invoice price for the running boards but find it hard to believe the Running Boards and Rear Mudguards account for the $1,111.50 discrepency! He assured me nothing more would be added than what I ordered it with. The $1000 over this Dealer invoice is $31,126, still a good deal but I'm wary of this dealer if he's misleading me about his numbers.
Any advice out there?
5346 XLE FWD $25,150
FR Pkg #12 $3,148
CF Carpet Floor Mats $119
RB Running Boards $349
Mudguards $53
Destination $510
Tx Freight Charge $25
$571 Estimated TDA for Houston (TDA is Toyota's advertising price, it is region specific and is not negotiable. It's a line item on Toyota's, other build it into their base invoice.)
$201 Estimated Holdback (also a line item in Toyota's invoice.)
Estimated Invoice Total $30,126
Edmunds and KBB doesn't include TDA, MAF and ETC in their invoice prices. You can get estimated TDA numbers from http://www.carsdirect.com. Hope that helps.
I'm assuming these charges are legit. I'll be ordering from this dealer, I need a $500 deposit though, which he says is fully refundable.
We'll see...
It looks like a pretty good deal at this stage in the game. Hopefully they are allocating the van for you and give you a delivery date within a reasonable amount of time. (Less than 90 days.)
Good Luck.
Machinemata: what dealer in Houston offered you invoice + 1K? I am searching a decent deal in Houston too. Thanks if you can disclose the dealer's name.
I emailed 22 dealers total in Houston, Dallas, Waco, Killeen, Temple, Austin, San Antonio, Corpus Christi, and the Rio Grande Valley. As you can see, I don't mind traveling for a good deal. The dealer taking orders for $1000 over Dealer Invoice in Houston is Mike Calvert Toyota. Fowler Toyota in Dallas is also taking orders for $1000 over Dealer invoice, but I'm going with Houston thinking they'll get first dibs on vans since they are arriving at the Houston port.
If you decide to go with Calvert in Houston, check my profile and mention my name. Maybe if they know they are getting some internet exposure, they won't try any add on tricks when it comes time to pick up the van! Let me know of your experience.
About dealer holdback, I thought it was already included in the invoice and gets refunded back to the dealer after 90 days. If that's the case, then the holdback is paid to the dealer by the consumer and manufacturer!
kgnw1, what gives? Any idea?
Here's how my van broke down:
5356 XLE LTD FWD $29,652
HE Pkg #4 $1400
RB Running Boards $399 (Sorry machinemata I gave you the wrong price)
CF Carpet Floor Mats $119
TDA $682 (Seattle)
Gas $6
Dealer Holdback $689
Wholesale Financial Reserve $344
Destination $510
So my invoice was $33801. My final deal was 2% over $34,477.
Toyota just shows on their invoice that the dealer will get $689 (2.3%) back on my deal. They will also get $344 back for the Whsl. Financial Reserve.
WFR is a charge normally used to floor the vehicle. It includes detailing, pre-delivery service and interest charges for keeping the vehicle on the lot. Most of the time if a vehicle has been sitting on the lot, the dealer doesn't make any money on this.
TDA is more of a mystery. I don't know if a dealer gets any of this money back, but Toyota uses this for the TV commercials, magazine ads, etc.
I sent an email to Steve and I will see what he come back with. I think his dealership is actually not too far from me. How much did you end up paying?
When negotiating with them (and any other dealer) tell them you want an "out the door" price. After I agreed to a selling price they tried to add in a Toyota regional advertising fee when I returned a few days later to sign the paperwork. While this charge was most likely legitimate I took offense at the way they attempted to pass it on to me. They told me it was non negotiable. Since they were still holding my deposit check I asked for my check back as I got up to leave. Only then did they agree to eliminate the charge.
If they would have told me about this fee upfront I would not have been opposed to paying it but I would have included it on my comparative price quotes from the different dealers that I was shopping.
Bennett has been in business for many years (25+) and also has Infiniti, Jaguar, and Chevy franchises that I'm aware of.
Vince
My experience with Bennett was very satisfactory. The internet manager contacted me about a van he had in stock, in the color I wanted. It had some $350 of options that I didnt want, but I accepted the deal when he offered me the options at invoice. Plus, I was taking delivery of the van next day-not 3 months later.
I talked with the salesperson by phone some 15 minutes-we negotiated the number ($850 over invoice)-I told hime I will not give my credit-card number until he faxed over the "drive-out" numbers, which he did. I went over the numbers-checked them against the invoice listed on Edmunds-saw that there wasnt any extraneous additions on the fax other than the Tax+TTL and a $59 dealer handling fee (a small sum to really bicker about).
I then called him, and made sure that he wasnt going to spring any additional fees when I come in to the dealership, and only then gave my credit-card number. As a matter of principle, I had even steeled myself to walking away from the deal if he had sprung any fees on me. But it never came to that (and I never went through the pain of fighting for the refund). The next day, he was true to his word. Everything was above board-no extra fees and the whole transaction was done without any problem.
Of course, from my calculations-I knew he was holding on to the holdback+Wholesale FInancial Reserve), which came to a handsome profit (See my earlier posting#1412), based on the invoice number implicit in the drive-out price. But, atleast his profit wasnt as insane as the other dealers who were asking MSRP. I've heard dealers almost never deal on the holdback and the Sienna is a hot vehicle right now, so I figured there is no point in even talking about it.
I think one of the main reasons I am happy with my purchasing experience, is that he had the van in stock, and thus a VIN# and a list of options that I could make a decision about, as opposed to booking for a vehicle which has not even been built, dont know what sort of options it has, and the possibility of "change of mind" on both parties (dealer could decide he'd like to make more profit or the customer could decide, he'll get a cheaper price elsewhere) and thus the ensuing heartburns because one of the parties to renege on the deal.
So, all in all, I think I was very happy with Bennett probably because the salesperson was straight-forward with me.
Sorry for the longish post.
-sr15
I really didn't worry about all the fees and concentrated on the "out the door price" instead.
And Sienna is an exception because it is a NEW model. But dealers in NJ have couple of vans in their lots especially XLE'S higher end models.
So they are either selling at MSRP or few hundred $s off MSRP.
It was not same with ODYSSEY, as dealers did not have SHOWROOM display van for 2 years.
Considering the present auto sales and toyota's target of producing 150k vans per year, I am sure we the consumers will have chance to pick our choice of Van right off dealers lots by the year's end. Moreover, Summer will be gone which also is the time when minivan sales are always UP.
For your information, there were 3 dealers in PA., who were giving 2% above Invoice Deals, but 2 of them went back to MSRP.
And Bennett Toyota increased their offer from 2% to straight 850 above invoice + started being Arrogant & showing some Attitude because LOTS of people from this FORUM calling them and NO ONE else giving this deal.
I am still willing to place order from them provided they get back to me with information I requested and fax me all details like others have recommended before giving credit card number.
Also agree that deposit is refundable if I do not like the van in Test-Drive before delivery because some people have already had transmission problem as I already have 4 vehicles with transmission problems.
It is a real cost that the dealer pays to Toyota when they buy (or more accuratly finance) the cars when they get them.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Options:
LE Package #1: Includes
Trip Computer/Homelink, Power Right Passenger Sliding Door, Rear Seat Audio
Preferred Owner''s Portfolio
Wireless Headphones (Pair)
Preferred Accessory Package 1
Price: $25,435
Price includes all freight/destination charges and excludes taxes, tags and
titling fee.
is it a good price or am i paying too much
2.i sent a email to Toyota National Head quarters
about the options selection
they are saying that i can choose whatever i want not as per delear suggestion
even we can buy Sienna without rear seat audio, Trip Computer
We are not in HUGE hurry and are looking to leverage any bonus at end of year (cross fingers) to increase the down payment. If I had to wait until Spring I would use the tax refund too. But based on the appeal of Sienna AND the economy - what are you folks seeing as the optimal time to buy. I know convertibles are great to buy in winter, and SUV's are pricier in winter, but when are prime time minivan buying times? Being as its a 2004, I cant even go by the 'they are looking to get next year's models in' unless its a 2004.5.
Any advice?
Thanks!
First, Toyota is not making CE PKG.#3 yet, but they will custom make it for you in 16 weeks in factory & equip options at their port(another factory of toyota to install options).
In Model CE PKG.#3 is same as PKG.#7 in Model LE,
Both packages have VSC, Traction-Control, Side curtain Airbags from safety point of view plus many other items.
Although I am told by senior officer at Toyota's NJ regional office, I am NOT convinced that Side airbags, VSC and Traction control could be installed at Port factory.
So I have decided to wait if I want CE till Toyota Offers in My New Jersey Mkt.
However, I am considering to go for LE pkg.#7 since I will have wait for it too (6-8 weeks for delivery).
But Bennett Toyota salesperson has not got back to me , so I don't want to call him because they have already begun Acting up a little recently based on some posts on this forum. Like I said before, Business is a 2 way street so I want them to call me as I did initially call them.
Honestly, I hope another dealer starts giving same or better price, so people at Bennett get back to Normal. Like they say Competition make you Perfect.
Like you said, SUVs are in demand in Winter, I would say VANS are in Demand whole Year, But they are Most in Demand in SUMMER, because Most of Us go on long trips in Summer. And since you could wait I am sure by the Year's End you will be able to pick the Van of your choice right from the Dealers Lot at probably 2,3 or 4% over Invoice.
And if you can wait more, till next spring when it will be 1 year old model, You will also get lot of mistakes fixed which are usually higher in it's introductory year with every model & make.
To TOM4365, I would suggest you to contact internet sales manager at Bennett Toyota in Allentown, PA who are giving any model at $850 above Invoice. In your case it will be substantial savings because of very high MSRP.
Remember, Edmunds Invoice & Dealers Invoice Price is not same because edmunds does not contain wholesale fin'l reserve, TDA fees etc. So do not be surprised if Dealers invoice is higher by few hundred dollars.
Since you live in Philly, I am sure Bennett must be at reasonable driving distance.
But please read both -ve & +ve reactions from members in last 8-10 days and then decide to contact Bennett Toyota.
GOOD LUCK to both of you.
Atleast this is evident from the invoice sheet shown by Bennett Toyota. Cant imagine that different toyota dealers do this differently.
-sr15
I prefer those auto headlamps on my Kia Sorento. There is no DRL. But when I set it AUTO, the headlights (low bean) will turn on automatically like enter a tunnel, highway overpass and at dusk.
Well, here is my point, if we just focus on the out of door price, then Sienna dealers' invoice price (inovice + TDA + dealer holdback + whsl fin. res + destination charge) is nearly $500 more than Edmunds' quote of invoice + destination charge. This may not mean much to people who make Sienna their only choice of minivan, since most Toyota dealers may be playing the same number game. However, in the case of Mazda MPV, what you see on Edmunds agrees with what the dealers ask for. I don't have experience with Ody dealers but based on the Ody consumer discussion board it should be similar to the case of MPV.
Just my $0.02.
Everybody's pays TDA (atleast right now). I factored it in too (and it agreed with the final numbers Bennett faxed me). In the fax, there was just the retail price (which implicitly included everything:ActualInvoice+Holdback+WhlsFinResrv+TDA(~$465)+DestCha- - rge+$850)+Tax+Title+License Fees.
All I ensured was that the retail price in the fax, matched my own calculated Drive-out price, before giving my credit-card#. I think my calculation and their retail price was off by some $15 in my favor.
Hope this made it a little more clear.
-sr15
Here's a FAQ about how Edmunds figures the pricing around here.
Steve, Host