I've seen stuff (don't remember the name) at Home Depot or a similar home repair store that's made for cleaning concrete garage floors, etc. This stuff MAY do the trick, but it MAY also be the same stuff the gardener used that left things streaky. Maybe even straight bleach would work. You could give it a try in a hidden corner somewhere.
Sent you an offline note, but just realized a quick "PS":
If this is a concrete garage floor, I highly recommend etching it and putting down a couple of coats of a good 2-part epoxy paint. Make sure to throw some of the commercial-grade grit in during the last coat. Around $30/gallon & minimum of 2 gallons, but a good paint store will also tint it for free. It stands up even to brake fluid.
I don't think anybody ever answered szellers question about $500 under MSRP. My general feel from reading this board is that that's not a very good deal. I would do some email shopping if I were you.
Had asked this a few days ago, but was probably lost among the spirited financial discussions...
Only 700km into my 2 week old 330i, and I'm wondering if anyone knows if the 17x7" rims can be mounted with 225/45/17 tires? Currently it is fitted with OEM ContiTouring 205/50/17 4 seasons and I'm thinking of upgrading to Bridgestone RE730's. TIA.
I just returned Sunday night from Munich. My girlfriend and I had a nice 4 day weekend wrapped around picking up my first BMW.
2002 325xi Orient Blue / Tan Leatherette Premium Cold Weather Xenon Harmon
We arrive at the Munich Airport at about 11:00am on Thursday the 10th. We were at the Euro Delivery center by Noon. The whole experience there is like a blur. It felt like Christmas when your 8 years old.
We then drove to the Hotel Bayerischer Hof in downtown Munich. They were running a winter package that included dinner and breakfast each day for about 280 Euros. It's on of the better hotels, and since we were only going to be there for a short time I thought it was worth it.
The hotel was very nice and I recommend it to anyone staying in Munich for a night or 2. If you're planning on staying longer, I'd go for something a little less pricey.
On Friday we drove out to Neuschwanstein Castle. It took about 2 hours and it was a great drive. It include about 45 mins on the Autobahn and about an hour on a 2 lane country road, with excellent views of the countryside and the Bavarian Alps. The castle tour was great and well worth the 7 Euros each.
After the tour we left and headed back to Munich to drop the car off at Hams. If you are going to do Euro delivery I highly suggest 2 things. 1) Call Hams a few weeks ahead of time and make sure they will be open the day you want to drop it off. 2) Ask them to fax you a detailed map of the area they are in. They are in an industrial park and most of the Munich City maps do no include the detail on how to get there. Plus they are actually a few miles north of the city.
Saturday we explored downtown Munich. I've never seen so many stores in my life. It was like the world's largest mall. Unbelievable!!
Saturday night we went out to a Romantic last night in Munich dinner. We went to a little restaurant called Boettners in the Aldstadt district. A few blocks from the Marienplatz. 2 course dinner with a glass of champaign and a bottle of wine came in at around 170 Euros including tip, but it was the best dinner I've ever had. Amazing food! They even had a menu in English!
Sunday morning we flew back. If I had to change anything I would of gone to Munich earlier. For some reason I had it stuck in my head that I needed to be there the day the car was ready and not sooner. Munich has wonderful public transportation and we would of been better off going a few days earlier.
So now I'm Patiently Waiting for my car to come home to me.
There is no reason for any of us to get into a snippy exchange about off-topic stuff such as playing the stock market. Certainly there is no problem in talking about that sort of thing as long as it doesn't turn into an argument, which some recent posts clearly are attempting to do. If you don't like what someone else has posted, just skip it, for pete's sake.
The point is please keep it nice.
One of the greatest attributes of the Town Hall is our policy of civil and respectful discourse. Please keep that in mind.
Thank you.
(A few posts have been removed and this post has been relocated - these actions had nothing to do with the subject of this message, just fyi.)
Hi, I am looking at getting a BMW Pre-Owned Certified 1999 323i, 36,000 miles.
I took the car for a test drive and was very pleased. However, I am curious about other peoples experience with that model.
I have little information on it and have not been able to find the technical information on the vehicle: horsepower, traction control info . . .. If anyone knows of a good website they can direct me to I would appreciate it.
From the www.bmwusa.com web site. Look at the top of page under "certified Pre-Owned" then select "Model Library" From There just choose the model you want basic information on.
Standard Equipment: Vehicle & Key Memory 5-speed manual transmission Cornering Brake Control Keyless Entry with multi-function remote control
Optional Equipment: Cruise control 5-speed automatic transmission BMW on-board navigation system Premium Package Sport Package
Standard Drive Train: 2.5-liter 24-valve inline 6-cylinder engine 170 hp @ 5,500 rpm 181 lb-ft of torque @ 3,500 rpm 5-speed manual transmission
Retailer Optional Equipment: BMW cellular telephone Remote keyless entry system 6-disc CD changer BMW Universal Transmitter (garage door opener)
Also, try the following link right here on edmunds.com:
Does anyone have experience with the navigation system? Is it worth the expenditure? I will be relocating and thought it might be helpful but am unsure.
My wife and I had our 1st on the 27th and this is the first real opportunity I've had to catch up on the board . . . some 500 messages later! So, I guess you're doing better than I am! Maybe we should start a parenting forum somewhere? ;-)
Sounds like you had a great mini-vacation and maximized your time well. With your limited time, a drive to Neuschwanstein and back was a great idea. I don't want to get another argument started on deferring gratifications vs living for today, but I think you'll always have great memories of that fine hotel you stayed in and the great meal at that nice restaurant.
Sounds like you had a great experience with ED. There seem to be so may great experiences with ED that I'd be temted to do it myself if I decide to go with a 325Ci (or 330Ci with ED prices) as my next car. By no means do I want to sound ignorant, but are there many english speaking people in Munich (or Germany) or would it be better for me to learn the basics of German?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
>>are there many english speaking people in Munich (or Germany) or would it be better for me to learn the basics of German? >>
I'm sure the basics of German would come in handy and be appreciated by the natives.
I've found that my English was usually adequate in most far flung parts of the world, except in Quebec, where I had to brush up on college French very quickly or starve
conneen, sounds like you had a great trip. We also went to Neuschwanstein and had a good time learning about "Mad" King Ludwig and his rampant castle-building. Next time you're there (oh yes, I'm sure there will be a next time because by now you're hooked on ED) I can recommend heading over to Salzburg and spend a day or two there.
hippo168, lovely car. Isn't steel grey a great color? I can't tell from your pics, nor can I remember the spec sheet, but does the '02 325i come with titanium interior trim like our 330i did? It's really grown on me and now I'm glad we didn't opt for wood. All a personal preference, of course. How are you liking the SP so far? I'm also curious...aren't you worried that living in MA you'll never make it out of the driveway when it snows without a 325xi? just kidding
nyccarguy, most Germans you will encounter speak English well enough to communicate and many speak it better than some Americans. Still, it never hurts to learn a little of the native tongue.
lanyclady, some people really like the factory NAV system, but others seem to think an aftermarket system like a Garmin StreetPilot III or ColorMap is a much better deal and more flexible since you can use it in multiple cars.
We just missed each other. I picked up my car on 1/10 at 10:30AM and returned it on 1/14. We went to the Zugspitze on 1/11 in the AM, and intended to go to the castle in the afternoon, but ended up in Garmish and didn't leave until late. Too bad - as you know, Friday was the only clear day all weekend.
The people at the BMW delivery center gave me a blue pamplet with directions and contact info for Harms. The key thing to remember regarding this is that they are NOT open on weekends, but are very efficient in getting you out quickly and to the airport, if necessary. I was at Harms at 8:30AM and made my 11:00AM flight with an hour to spare. Also, I don't know if Harms washes the car before shipping, but there is a gas station with a great car wash about a 1/4 mile past the industrial park where Harms-Munich is located.
But was just curious about the english speaking abilities of the Germans. I think it is amazing that there are so many countries out there where people speak many other languages other than their native tongue. Many people in the US have the attitude of "You're in my country, speak my language...English!"
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
Thought my recent experience in trying to buy a BMW would interest board members. I've been thinking about buying a 3-series and reading this board for about a year. Recent info about pricing at invoice plus $1450 got me moving toward a purchase, so I got an internet quote from a west coast dealer (I live in the Phoenix area, so SoCA is nearby), then sent it along to two local dealers. It seemed only fair to see if the local guys would match the price, or even come close.
One simply said he couldn't do it ("it," I guess, is match or approach the invoice-plus price). The other responded with the attached, which I enclose for your edification and comment:
Thank you for contacting our Internet Sales Department. If you have that deal on a BMW, why haven't you bought the car yet? I really have a difficult time with people only caring about the price of a BMW and not the service that they receive before and for a long time after the sale. Do you know that BMW only has only an 8% mark up? Negotiation for a BMW is a thing of the past. We charge full MSRP, the right and fair price for the car, and we are having trouble keeping them on our lot. I find it hard to believe that any dealer would even deal off of an invoice. That sounds like a domestic or pacific rim dealership. Well, we place a lot of value in the Manufactures Suggested Retail Price, and take pride in excellent customer service.
I feel that I insulted the guy. Did I miss something? Is "pay MSRP" the eleventh commandment?
I'll probably still goo ahead with a BMW purchase, but the experience has me wondering if I need a car that is accompanied by so much attitude, or if I would be content with an ordinary Toyota or something.
Perhaps this is heretical to say on this board, but if memory serves BMW is a couple of notches down from the top in overall customer satisfaction. Some folks seem to find excellent customer service and discounts from MSRP in other makers' machines.
Sorry, too long a message already. I really enjoy reading this group--thanks folks!
Best wishes,
Ed
PS the "MR323" refers to the 323 I have driven for the past dozen years...a Mazda 323. The engine goes on and on as the body quietly rusts away....
mine is a '01 325i, and it comes with "high gloss black trim", I like it alot, it is more subtle.
When I bought the car, I specifically asked NOT to have the premium pkg, because I just don't like the wood trim, period. And I think it certainly doesn't fit the 3 series.
I have not seen the titanium trim, but I'd think it is too "shinny" for my taste...
In my experiences with BMW, it is rare to find any nice dealer that will give you your money's worth in "service". Once you drive off the lot you are like anyone else.
No one pays MSRP, neither should you. I would however, try and deal in person with the 2 local dealers (but not the same people) and try and get a deal closer to what you have. Most dealers in an area come to within $100-200 of each other. Face to Face negotiations may imply to them that you are serious.
You should definitely post the name of that dealer and salesman so that fellow Edmunds readers and potential BMW customers will know their stance on MSRP pricing. I'm sure that everyone looking for that "excellent customer service you can only get by paying MSRP" will take their business there in droves :-)
I negotiated my 325i down to around $1500 over invoice here in Wisconsin. Of course they'll deal unless there are so many suckers in town that they indeed can sell their alotment at MSRP.
My dealer said they make their money on service. One sale could mean 5-10 years of service which will add up to more than they'll ever make on the sale.
After driving my 2002 325 wagon for two months, I decided to purchase rubber floor mats to protect the carpets as much as possible. After considering both Weathertech and BMW's mats, I chose the later and purchased them from my dealer.
They look great and fit exceptionally well and I was more than mildly pleased when I saw that they had a built in anchoring system to keep the mats in place when in the car.
But, they sure do have an overpowering oily/rubber smell to them. I had the mats in the car one day, but then I decided to remove them because their odor completely overpowered the sweet "new car" smell and the smell of my new leather seats.
I left a similar note on the bmwusa owner's site and was referred to consult with my dealer to try and solve the problem.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to stabilize the odor emissions from the mats? Currently, I have them outside, on the deck and in the sunshine trying to "cure" them.
I heard that someone tried soaking it with Simple Green and leaving it outside for a day or so. He said that worked, never tried myself. Let us know if you do.
I don't think you insulted the guy. Frankly, I think his attitude of trying to hold to MSRP or maybe $500 below it is a common one. These dealers must be selling their allotments at those prices, I guess. But we know from the posts here that if you are willing to expand your search to state-wide or country-wide you can get a reasonable price. Personally, I'm going to do just as you did -- shop around to get the best price and then give my local dealer(s) a chance to match. I really don't expect them to and that's okay. I'll live with not being treated like royalty when I take the car in for service.
I think that would be close. The 325 SP 225's come on 8" rims (I believe) and the 225's on the front of 330 SP equipped cars are on 7.5" wheels, so it might work... If I were you, I'd go to tirerack.com and send 'em an email. They are very helpful and seem to be quite knowledgable.
I know this is a 3-series board, but where else am I going to find such collective intelligence. Anyone heard about the new Z5? It comes with the SMG gearbox that we batted around a few months ago. Following is a link that most of you probably have-http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/news.htm
I happen to own a 99 323i and its been very reliable. Also u will not have to worry about steering issues in a 1999. i only have 27k miles .
Dealer service, i would remind him no matter where you bought from, and no matter what you pay if you dont get EXCELLENT service they will be in DODO with BMW.
What dealership in Wisconsin offered you $1500 over invoice? Hope it's not Enterprise - they gave me quite an attitude when I asked them about a price for 530.
My mistake, it was actually $2000 over invoice with the armrest thrown in...not quite $1500 over. Oh yeah, I got to test drive an M3 also.
The dealer is Zimbrick in Madison. A couple salesmen I talked with initially basically said the price was MSRP, but when it came time to place the order, they were willing to deal.
BTW, I feel confident that I could have gotten a few hundred more off, but I was happy with the deal.
-Murray
p.s. Have you ever spoke to a dealer that didn't cop an attitude on any make of car (maybe not a Saturn, but try getting a deal on one of those).
I know exactly how you feel. I retired my 92 Mazda in Aug for my 325i (steelblue/sand 'ette/cd/obc). Went shopping in June, I was treated the same way at Camelback BMW and Chapman BMW (I have no problem naming names)Chapman would not respond to any offers and Camelback stated they were a "no haggle dealership" I waited two weeks and offered $1400 over invoice, Camelback took the deal.
I'm afraid I have no experience with Don Mackey in Tucson, maybe some one else on the board has delt with them.
BTW was rear-ended Monday on I17, $851.02 and three days to replace electrical harness at Camelback, estimate today from body shop - $3985.20 + and a month to do the work.
When I first started car shopping I had decided on a Rav4 or CRV. Went to the nearest auto-mega-mall and went into the Honda showroom. The dealer there took my brother and me on the test drive, told me that a used one (2-yr old) would cost about 26k, and I would be better off buying a new one at marginally more...He also told me NOT to go to the Toyota store next door as the Rav4 was not a good vehicle. (yep, great sales technique)
After this bs, we went to the Toyota dealership next door, where we were ignored for over half an hour, at which time we left.
My brother convinced me to drive to the BMW dealership, where I told the guy I was just looking. We sat in a couple of used 3 series, he showed me the price list. I thanked him and left.
Went back 3 months later, ready to buy.
BTW. I also went to Acura where the guy showed me a shiny 97 in the showroom, and then offered a testdrive in quite the worst piece of cr*p that had more miles and was a year older...Never went back there again...and never will.
Ultimately, I have to thank that sleazy Honda sales guy, coz I would never have considered the Bimmer if he hadn't been so nasty.
MULAWYER - Congrats on your baby!! Funny you should mention the pregnancy forum - my wife contributed to a pregnancy forum throughout her pregnancy and she has pregnancy buddies just the way I have BMW buddies. We should try a crossover between the two forums ) As far as kids in general, it has easily been the most fulfilling part of my life. I have Jr. lying on my lap as I'm typing and I smile every time I look at his face. He's so peaceful and calm - not a single worry on his mind...
hippo168 - nice ride - A looker and a graceful dancer!!
genie1 - good move with the BMW! "Life is a wonderful stroke of luck sometimes"...
compwhiz... Who did you deal with at Enterprise Motorcars? In person or over internet? I had a great experience there in November buying my CPO '98 540i 6-speed. Dealt with their internet person, Jim Franzen. Worked most of the deal out by e-mail and telephone. Maybe it is a different game buying new vs CPO, but you might e-mail 'em and see.
Thought I'd give my 2c on dealership attitude and suggest a search strategy that worked for me. I just ordered a 325i ED from my local dealership (closest one!) but did my homework big time before offering them a dime.
My first thought was to figure out who might be a good dealership before I considered price. I car shopped in jeans and a sweatshirt to check on attitude. You can get very serious attitude at these dealerships so be prepared for a little discrimination. Fortunately, my closest dealer treated me like a human (no overwhelming red carpet mind you, but like a human). I suggest asking the salesman to do his job by posing the question: "why should I buy a BMW." Play dumb and don't act like you've been reading this page. See if he/she talks straight to you and spends a little time. My closest dealer spent an hour on me giving me all the information I could absorb. He even copied the comparison page against the MB C240 from the sales manual. I asked him only to give me a rough lease price and figured out it was based on $300 over MSRP. Hey, don't be surprised if a dealership is going to try and make money on the unprepared. The 80/20 rule holds here, a dealership makes 80% of their money from 20% of their customers. But don't let on you are in the top 5%, at least just yet.
I shopped another local dealership and posed the same question. His answer: "I don't know, I guess you should just buy where you feel most comfortable." This after 2 trips into the showroom and a walk around the lot before someone came to talk to me, probably by accident since I caught the receptionist's eyes by mistake. I was quite annoyed but figured out that I learned something quickly and the salesman was right. I was not comfortable there and didn't buy, although I did get a price from them via the internet later on.
I then did my homework and learned dealer cost ED and wrote up a request for quotes. I called several dealers and got nowhere quickly. I suppose something in writing is more meaningful than a phone call. I even got a few "I'm not allowed to sell below MSRP, I might lose my franchise if I do." It tells you a lot about a dealership. Anyway, I then wrote out my request for quotes saying I was looking for $1500 over ED invoice. I sent them everywhere in the State except the two local dealers and got 2 bites back accepting my offer and one for $2k over.
Now knowing my BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement, see "Getting to Yes," a negotiation book), I emailed my two local dealers and said I wanted $1500 over plus floor mats and 5 BMW t-shirts. I also re-emailed the other positive response dealerships with this new request. The original yes's said no thanks to the sweeter deal. The "dumb" local dealer said $1800 over no extras and my preferred dealer said $1600 plus the extras. Actually the best overall deal. All this took about 3 days total.
A couple of rules, 1. Be patient. 2. Work on your terms not theirs. The internet is a great equalizer. You don't even need to visit a dealership until you pick up the car. Let them come to you and let them know they are in a competition. If you are in the dealership, be ready to walk if things don't progress rapidly. These guys deal with lots of people with money who don't have time for BS, they are good judges of character and can generally size up the situation quickly. Make sure they have contact information on you if walk out and you want to get them to play. 3. Don't let on that you like the car. Let them know they have competition in your eyes. Let them know that when it comes to opinions your's is the only one that counts, no one on this board matters a bit when it comes to your money! The MB and Audi are worthy cars, let the dealer think you wouldn't mind driving them instead of a BMW if the price isn't right. 4. Figure out how far you are willing to go for a deal. $/mile? 5. Work farthest in. It's a lot easier saying no to a dealer 500 miles away than one that is closer and you wont be as disappointed in hearing bad news from far away. 6. Do your homework. 7. Be prepared for rejection. You are only buying one car so, if you get 4 out of 20 dealers to play ball, so what, you only need one. 8. Don't argue, what's the point. It's generally wasted time. Tell them you're busy and you want their best price. If they realize you aren't going to be bamboozled you are more likely to get a good price. 9. Go back and ask again if you don't like what you hear. Think abour how effective it is for kids, "daddy can I have it (after the 500th time!)" All they can say is no. 10. See rule 1.
Hope that's not too much pontificating. It worked for me and I got my price at my preferred dealer. The good guys won this time. However, this is just one technique. You might solict other opinions on strategy on this board. But be careful, a smart salesmen would read these posts too, and might know what you are up to. Don't name names before your deal is done and try to get some names before you go. I was most encouraged by the board members experiences and worked until I got what I wanted. Please also name names afterward. Good dealers want people to know they will deal, they sell more cars that way.
I also had a wide range of experiences with different dealerships. I had one not even return my calls. I had one say that he can sell the cars at full MSRP, but he might be able to 'discount' $200 off. I had another dealer try to pressure me by saying the deal ($1400 off MSRP) was only good through noon on Jan 1 and I had to make a decision right then. I finally found a dealer to give me $1790 over 2002 invoice. It's a shame that BMW increased the invoice costs to the dealerships in January. My salesperson was also not happy about the increases, and said that it (invoice increase) cost me about $500. I had to call and see a lot of dealerships, but the dealer I ordered the car from that offered $1790 over invoice just worked out the figures and said that he was offering the best price he could. At that point it was the best price I had and I was able to order it to my liking, and the deal was done in about 15-20 minutes. There is certainly a lot of different dealership attitudes and ways of doing business.
can't say I have any regrets...far from it, in fact, I've turned into quite a car nut...thanks to the Bimmer.
Jason sounds like he's well on his way to being a heartbreaker...and he's got several virtual "godparents" to get him started on the right automotive track...
One of the cool things about the HVAC system on the E46 is that there are TWO windshield defrost modes. They are the upper button on the left side of the panel and the upper button on the right side of the panel, and their functions are "Normal Defog/Defrost" mode and "Gonzo Turbo Blast/Melt The Glass" mode respectively. Another way of saying that is, when you get in you frosted up car, hit the upper right button, and when the occupants are fogging up the windshield, hit the upper left button. ;-)
Depending on what type of an internet connection I can get in Taipei this comming week, I may be WAY behind when I get back in town the following week. Y'all have fun in the meantime.
Is it worth the extra $7K (gulp) to buy the 330xi over the 325xi? The engine size appears to be the only difference. I have read that the smaller 6 doesn't have the chops for AWD.
Also, I'm in CT. What is a reasonable mark-up for a BMW 3 series over dealer invoice. I hear around here that $2500 over their cost is the bear minimum. Thanks.
I've recently noticed a slight rattle/clicking sound coming from the rear, it seems. It doesn't have a consistent pattern ie: sometimes I'll go over large bumps and not hear it and sometimes I hear it in just ordinary smooth driving. Could this be the seat belt anchor problem? If so, I know it was discussed way back, but what is the fix?
Actually, your plan is how I purchased my last vehicle, for my wife, but it was something I stumbled my way into. I didn't conduct any email communications with my preferred, local, dealer simply because I didn't want to create a conflict of interest with the salesman I had been doing business with. After getting the best bid from all the other local dealers via email, I then went back to the salesman at my preferred dealership and he beat the best price I had been offered by the other dealers.
On the BMW, I'll change up the plan only in that I am willing to expand my dealer search to nationwide, if need be. I'm going to shoot for $1,000 over invoice, since I know it has been done before.
BTW, several posters who've done the ED said that you automatically get the floor mats included. I wonder if that is true?
Thanks for the great info. Please help me understand what "$1500 over ED invoice" means. Edmunds shows the dealer is paying $29,065 for the car I'm interested in (325xi/premium/manual). This price plus $1500 dealer profit is $30,565. The ED deduction is $1895. Now the price is $28,670, below what the dealer paid for the car. Since I know the dealer will not lose money on the car I must be thinking incorrectly. I guess I'm asking how do you negotiate off the dealer invoice and account for the ED reduction? On another note, I'm thinking of black leatherette and wondering how it feels in 20 degree weather and 100 degree weather? We get both here. Thanks!
The 330xi is definitely quicker, especially at lower rpm, than the 325xi. I own a 325xi wagon whereas my daughter has the 330xi sedan, both with manual transmissions, so my comparison may not be exactly what you are looking for (the extra weight of the wagon is somewhat offset by its higher rear-end ratio). I consider the 325xiT to really step out when I get everything right but your assessment will depend on what you are used to. When accelerating, you need to keep engine speed above 3000 rpm to get the most out of the car but I believe that is part of the fun and challenge of driving. In snow and grease of winter, I am thankful for the low torque under 3000. One other factor you should consider is the options you would like on the car. The 330 comes with different standard equipment -- some of which may be options on the 325. So depending on what extras you want to put on the 325, the price difference _might_ not be as great as you initially believe. You really need to drive both to determine for yourself :-).
I had to smile when you said you were looking at a CRV and Rav4. I started in that direction after owning a 1990 "tall" Civic wagon and wanted a vehicle with more cargo area than a sedan. I actually got as far as driving the CRV but disliked its lean on sharp turns, high driver position and truck-like steering wheel position. I might have acutally purchased the car if the salesman had ever called back. So, all those small but unpleasant impressions delayed the process until my daughter finally got me to a BMW dealer (I was not mentally prepared to pay $30K). After driving the wagon, I knew I had found what I was looking for.
Comments
If this is a concrete garage floor, I highly recommend etching it and putting down a couple of coats of a good 2-part epoxy paint. Make sure to throw some of the commercial-grade grit in during the last coat. Around $30/gallon & minimum of 2 gallons, but a good paint store will also tint it for free. It stands up even to brake fluid.
-hh
Only 700km into my 2 week old 330i, and I'm wondering if anyone knows if the 17x7" rims can be mounted with 225/45/17 tires? Currently it is fitted with OEM ContiTouring 205/50/17 4 seasons and I'm thinking of upgrading to Bridgestone RE730's. TIA.
2002 325xi Orient Blue / Tan Leatherette
Premium
Cold Weather
Xenon
Harmon
We arrive at the Munich Airport at about 11:00am on Thursday the 10th. We were at the Euro Delivery center by Noon. The whole experience there is like a blur. It felt like Christmas when your 8 years old.
We then drove to the Hotel Bayerischer Hof in downtown Munich. They were running a winter package that included dinner and breakfast each day for about 280 Euros. It's on of the better hotels, and since we were only going to be there for a short time I thought it was worth it.
The hotel was very nice and I recommend it to anyone staying in Munich for a night or 2. If you're planning on staying longer, I'd go for something a little less pricey.
On Friday we drove out to Neuschwanstein Castle. It took about 2 hours and it was a great drive. It include about 45 mins on the Autobahn and about an hour on a 2 lane country road, with excellent views of the countryside and the Bavarian Alps. The castle tour was great and well worth the 7 Euros each.
After the tour we left and headed back to Munich to drop the car off at Hams. If you are going to do Euro delivery I highly suggest 2 things. 1) Call Hams a few weeks ahead of time and make sure they will be open the day you want to drop it off. 2) Ask them to fax you a detailed map of the area they are in. They are in an industrial park and most of the Munich City maps do no include the detail on how to get there. Plus they are actually a few miles north of the city.
Saturday we explored downtown Munich. I've never seen so many stores in my life. It was like the world's largest mall. Unbelievable!!
Saturday night we went out to a Romantic last night in Munich dinner. We went to a little restaurant called Boettners in the Aldstadt district. A few blocks from the Marienplatz. 2 course dinner with a glass of champaign and a bottle of wine came in at around 170 Euros including tip, but it was the best dinner I've ever had. Amazing food! They even had a menu in English!
Sunday morning we flew back. If I had to change anything I would of gone to Munich earlier. For some reason I had it stuck in my head that I needed to be there the day the car was ready and not sooner. Munich has wonderful public transportation and we would of been better off going a few days earlier.
So now I'm Patiently Waiting for my car to come home to me.
Brian
The point is please keep it nice.
One of the greatest attributes of the Town Hall is our policy of civil and respectful discourse. Please keep that in mind.
Thank you.
(A few posts have been removed and this post has been relocated - these actions had nothing to do with the subject of this message, just fyi.)
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
I took the car for a test drive and was very pleased. However, I am curious about other peoples experience with that model.
I have little information on it and have not been able to find the technical information on the vehicle: horsepower, traction control info . . .. If anyone knows of a good website they can direct me to I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Joe
Look at the top of page under "certified Pre-Owned"
then select "Model Library"
From There just choose the model you want basic information on.
Standard Equipment:
Vehicle & Key Memory
5-speed manual transmission
Cornering Brake Control
Keyless Entry with multi-function remote control
Optional Equipment:
Cruise control
5-speed automatic transmission
BMW on-board navigation system
Premium Package
Sport Package
Standard Drive Train:
2.5-liter 24-valve inline 6-cylinder engine
170 hp @ 5,500 rpm
181 lb-ft of torque @ 3,500 rpm
5-speed manual transmission
Retailer Optional Equipment:
BMW cellular telephone
Remote keyless entry system
6-disc CD changer
BMW Universal Transmitter (garage door opener)
Also, try the following link right here on edmunds.com:
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/bmw/3series/4dr323isedan/standard.html?id=lin0062
The forums there are quite busy.
http://uk.photos.yahoo.com/bc/bwkwok/lst?.view=t&.dir=/My+Car
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
I'm sure the basics of German would come in handy and be appreciated by the natives.
I've found that my English was usually adequate in most far flung parts of the world, except in Quebec, where I had to brush up on college French very quickly or starve
hippo168, lovely car. Isn't steel grey a great color? I can't tell from your pics, nor can I remember the spec sheet, but does the '02 325i come with titanium interior trim like our 330i did? It's really grown on me and now I'm glad we didn't opt for wood. All a personal preference, of course. How are you liking the SP so far? I'm also curious...aren't you worried that living in MA you'll never make it out of the driveway when it snows without a 325xi?
nyccarguy, most Germans you will encounter speak English well enough to communicate and many speak it better than some Americans. Still, it never hurts to learn a little of the native tongue.
lanyclady, some people really like the factory NAV system, but others seem to think an aftermarket system like a Garmin StreetPilot III or ColorMap is a much better deal and more flexible since you can use it in multiple cars.
The people at the BMW delivery center gave me a blue pamplet with directions and contact info for Harms. The key thing to remember regarding this is that they are NOT open on weekends, but are very efficient in getting you out quickly and to the airport, if necessary. I was at Harms at 8:30AM and made my 11:00AM flight with an hour to spare. Also, I don't know if Harms washes the car before shipping, but there is a gas station with a great car wash about a 1/4 mile past the industrial park where Harms-Munich is located.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
One simply said he couldn't do it ("it," I guess, is match or approach the invoice-plus price). The other responded with the attached, which I enclose for your edification and comment:
Thank you for contacting our Internet Sales Department. If you have that
deal on a BMW, why haven't you bought the car yet? I really have a
difficult time with people only caring about the price of a BMW and not the
service that they receive before and for a long time after the sale. Do you
know that BMW only has only an 8% mark up? Negotiation for a BMW is a thing
of the past. We charge full MSRP, the right and fair price for the car, and
we are having trouble keeping them on our lot. I find it hard to believe
that any dealer would even deal off of an invoice. That sounds like a
domestic or pacific rim dealership. Well, we place a lot of value in the
Manufactures Suggested Retail Price, and take pride in excellent customer
service.
I feel that I insulted the guy. Did I miss something? Is "pay MSRP" the eleventh commandment?
I'll probably still goo ahead with a BMW purchase, but the experience has me wondering if I need a car that is accompanied by so much attitude, or if I would be content with an ordinary Toyota or something.
Perhaps this is heretical to say on this board, but if memory serves BMW is a couple of notches down from the top in overall customer satisfaction. Some folks seem to find excellent customer service and discounts from MSRP in other makers' machines.
Sorry, too long a message already. I really enjoy reading this group--thanks folks!
Best wishes,
Ed
PS the "MR323" refers to the 323 I have driven for the past dozen years...a Mazda 323. The engine goes on and on as the body quietly rusts away....
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
When I bought the car, I specifically asked NOT to have the premium pkg, because I just don't like the wood trim, period. And I think it certainly doesn't fit the 3 series.
I have not seen the titanium trim, but I'd think it is too "shinny" for my taste...
this might help..
-Chris
No one pays MSRP, neither should you. I would however, try and deal in person with the 2 local dealers (but not the same people) and try and get a deal closer to what you have. Most dealers in an area come to within $100-200 of each other. Face to Face negotiations may imply to them that you are serious.
Frankly, I found his response insulting.
My dealer said they make their money on service. One sale could mean 5-10 years of service which will add up to more than they'll ever make on the sale.
-Murray
They look great and fit exceptionally well and I was more than mildly pleased when I saw that they had a built in anchoring system to keep the mats in place when in the car.
But, they sure do have an overpowering oily/rubber smell to them. I had the mats in the car one day, but then I decided to remove them because their odor completely overpowered the sweet "new car" smell and the smell of my new leather seats.
I left a similar note on the bmwusa owner's site and was referred to consult with my dealer to try and solve the problem.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to stabilize the odor emissions from the mats? Currently, I have them outside, on the deck and in the sunshine trying to "cure" them.
Keep the hammer down!
Ptrm
Let me know your thoughts.
Dealer service, i would remind him no matter where you bought from, and no matter what you pay if you dont get EXCELLENT service they will be in DODO with BMW.
DL
Have the invoice prices gone up or not?
The dealer is Zimbrick in Madison. A couple salesmen I talked with initially basically said the price was MSRP, but when it came time to place the order, they were willing to deal.
BTW, I feel confident that I could have gotten a few hundred more off, but I was happy with the deal.
-Murray
p.s. Have you ever spoke to a dealer that didn't cop an attitude on any make of car (maybe not a Saturn, but try getting a deal on one of those).
I'm afraid I have no experience with Don Mackey in Tucson, maybe some one else on the board has delt with them.
BTW was rear-ended Monday on I17, $851.02 and three days to replace electrical harness at Camelback, estimate today from body shop - $3985.20 + and a month to do the work.
After this bs, we went to the Toyota dealership next door, where we were ignored for over half an hour, at which time we left.
My brother convinced me to drive to the BMW dealership, where I told the guy I was just looking. We sat in a couple of used 3 series, he showed me the price list. I thanked him and left.
Went back 3 months later, ready to buy.
BTW. I also went to Acura where the guy showed me a shiny 97 in the showroom, and then offered a testdrive in quite the worst piece of cr*p that had more miles and was a year older...Never went back there again...and never will.
Ultimately, I have to thank that sleazy Honda sales guy, coz I would never have considered the Bimmer if he hadn't been so nasty.
hippo168 - nice ride - A looker and a graceful dancer!!
genie1 - good move with the BMW! "Life is a wonderful stroke of luck sometimes"...
My first thought was to figure out who might be a good dealership before I considered price. I car shopped in jeans and a sweatshirt to check on attitude. You can get very serious attitude at these dealerships so be prepared for a little discrimination. Fortunately, my closest dealer treated me like a human (no overwhelming red carpet mind you, but like a human). I suggest asking the salesman to do his job by posing the question: "why should I buy a BMW." Play dumb and don't act like you've been reading this page. See if he/she talks straight to you and spends a little time. My closest dealer spent an hour on me giving me all the information I could absorb. He even copied the comparison page against the MB C240 from the sales manual. I asked him only to give me a rough lease price and figured out it was based on $300 over MSRP. Hey, don't be surprised if a dealership is going to try and make money on the unprepared. The 80/20 rule holds here, a dealership makes 80% of their money from 20% of their customers. But don't let on you are in the top 5%, at least just yet.
I shopped another local dealership and posed the same question. His answer: "I don't know, I guess you should just buy where you feel most comfortable." This after 2 trips into the showroom and a walk around the lot before someone came to talk to me, probably by accident since I caught the receptionist's eyes by mistake. I was quite annoyed but figured out that I learned something quickly and the salesman was right. I was not comfortable there and didn't buy, although I did get a price from them via the internet later on.
I then did my homework and learned dealer cost ED and wrote up a request for quotes. I called several dealers and got nowhere quickly. I suppose something in writing is more meaningful than a phone call. I even got a few "I'm not allowed to sell below MSRP, I might lose my franchise if I do." It tells you a lot about a dealership. Anyway, I then wrote out my request for quotes saying I was looking for $1500 over ED invoice. I sent them everywhere in the State except the two local dealers and got 2 bites back accepting my offer and one for $2k over.
Now knowing my BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement, see "Getting to Yes," a negotiation book), I emailed my two local dealers and said I wanted $1500 over plus floor mats and 5 BMW t-shirts. I also re-emailed the other positive response dealerships with this new request. The original yes's said no thanks to the sweeter deal. The "dumb" local dealer said $1800 over no extras and my preferred dealer said $1600 plus the extras. Actually the best overall deal. All this took about 3 days total.
A couple of rules,
1. Be patient.
2. Work on your terms not theirs. The internet is a great equalizer. You don't even need to visit a dealership until you pick up the car. Let them come to you and let them know they are in a competition. If you are in the dealership, be ready to walk if things don't progress rapidly. These guys deal with lots of people with money who don't have time for BS, they are good judges of character and can generally size up the situation quickly. Make sure they have contact information on you if walk out and you want to get them to play.
3. Don't let on that you like the car. Let them know they have competition in your eyes. Let them know that when it comes to opinions your's is the only one that counts, no one on this board matters a bit when it comes to your money! The MB and Audi are worthy cars, let the dealer think you wouldn't mind driving them instead of a BMW if the price isn't right.
4. Figure out how far you are willing to go for a deal. $/mile?
5. Work farthest in. It's a lot easier saying no to a dealer 500 miles away than one that is closer and you wont be as disappointed in hearing bad news from far away.
6. Do your homework.
7. Be prepared for rejection. You are only buying one car so, if you get 4 out of 20 dealers to play ball, so what, you only need one.
8. Don't argue, what's the point. It's generally wasted time. Tell them you're busy and you want their best price. If they realize you aren't going to be bamboozled you are more likely to get a good price.
9. Go back and ask again if you don't like what you hear. Think abour how effective it is for kids, "daddy can I have it (after the 500th time!)" All they can say is no.
10. See rule 1.
Hope that's not too much pontificating. It worked for me and I got my price at my preferred dealer. The good guys won this time. However, this is just one technique. You might solict other opinions on strategy on this board. But be careful, a smart salesmen would read these posts too, and might know what you are up to. Don't name names before your deal is done and try to get some names before you go. I was most encouraged by the board members experiences and worked until I got what I wanted. Please also name names afterward. Good dealers want people to know they will deal, they sell more cars that way.
Good luck!
Jason sounds like he's well on his way to being a heartbreaker...and he's got several virtual "godparents" to get him started on the right automotive track...
Cheers!
One of the cool things about the HVAC system on the E46 is that there are TWO windshield defrost modes. They are the upper button on the left side of the panel and the upper button on the right side of the panel, and their functions are "Normal Defog/Defrost" mode and "Gonzo Turbo Blast/Melt The Glass" mode respectively. Another way of saying that is, when you get in you frosted up car, hit the upper right button, and when the occupants are fogging up the windshield, hit the upper left button. ;-)
Depending on what type of an internet connection I can get in Taipei this comming week, I may be WAY behind when I get back in town the following week. Y'all have fun in the meantime.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Also, I'm in CT. What is a reasonable mark-up for a BMW 3 series over dealer invoice. I hear around here that $2500 over their cost is the bear minimum. Thanks.
Thanks.
On the BMW, I'll change up the plan only in that I am willing to expand my dealer search to nationwide, if need be. I'm going to shoot for $1,000 over invoice, since I know it has been done before.
BTW, several posters who've done the ED said that you automatically get the floor mats included. I wonder if that is true?
On another note, I'm thinking of black leatherette and wondering how it feels in 20 degree weather and 100 degree weather? We get both here. Thanks!
I consider the 325xiT to really step out when I get everything right but your assessment will depend on what you are used to. When accelerating, you need to keep engine speed above 3000 rpm to get the most out of the car but I believe that is part of the fun and challenge of driving. In snow and grease of winter, I am thankful for the low torque under 3000.
One other factor you should consider is the options you would like on the car. The 330 comes with different standard equipment -- some of which may be options on the 325. So depending on what extras you want to put on the 325, the price difference _might_ not be as great as you initially believe.
You really need to drive both to determine for yourself :-).
So, all those small but unpleasant impressions delayed the process until my daughter finally got me to a BMW dealer (I was not mentally prepared to pay $30K). After driving the wagon, I knew I had found what I was looking for.
Alan