BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

div2 · February 2002

Re: comparisons to BMW- Check the Lincoln LS topic; those guys usually can't go twenty posts without a mention of BMW.

brave1heart · February 2002

I meant it in the context of everyday driving. I'd MUCH rather have the 330 and especially the M3 if I were to run it on Laguna Seca. On public roads, though, usable power is a lot more limited. I could take the 330 up to almost 100 mph in third, so why even bother shifting - it's got power throughout the whole RPM band. I could not make the same argument for a much slower car, though. I had a '91 Jetta with 105 HP and no matter how well you squeeze the juice out of it, this thing is going nowhere fast. What really matters is finding YOUR sweet spot of performance. As far as high-performance cars, even for everyday driving I'd rather have a car that forces you to rev it up to get the power out of it like the Honda S2000. HP over torque.

brave1heart · February 2002

I got my first ticket in two years yesterday. The officer wrote me up for 65 in a 55 mph zone. It's always something new, though - this ticket reads "...came up flying from behind and slowed down." There were about 15 cars bunched up behind the cruiser and I followed them for about 3 miles before he decided to pull me over. I apologized and I didn't argue - he's just doing his job I guess...Someone has to help close the state and local governments' budget deficit. Plus, it's the end of the month.

megrdh · February 2002

Hi everybody
I have a question about my 325I. When I try to accelerate my car (e.g. merging to freeway traffic) it likes a hiccup before catching the speed I want. At first, I thought it is normal becaue it happened with my Hondas, my brother told me it should not. So whose fault? Me or the car?
Thanks for all reply. Meg

tenet1 · February 2002

Could be the way you drive and hit the gas when you are trying to merge. The hickup could be the car down-shifting to speed you up. I assume this since this happens in you your honda as well.

Have another person drive your car and see what they say.

carwatch · February 2002

I did my homework, did the numbers and really shopped around within a 75 mile radius. I did my first contact by e-mail only (eliminated those who didn't respond or those who clearly indicated that no negotiation was possible), then by phone with those who opened the possibility for negotiation, then in person with those who were at least indicating that they could approximate the price point I was looking for ($1000-$2000) over invoice and those who insisted I test drive the model I was thinking of getting.

Then I read a lot of posts on this board and roadfly and asked for advice from all the regulars here until I felt comfortable sitting down with the dealers on price points.

Today I ordered a 2002 330ci with PP, SP, CWP, Xenon, Step, tpz blue, black leather for $1800 over invoice here in NJ - delivery end of May. Best price among 4 dealers within acceptable driving distance from where I live.

Best I could do in the time frame I wanted to do it. Starting March 1, there will be slight increases in interest rates for financing and money factors for leases plus the reduction of residuals for leases. I was able to lock-in the rates (be it financing or lease) for 60 days. I knew I had to order and put a refundable deposit if I wanted to get the current rates. I was ready to take the plunge anyway so I took advantage of the current rates which could translate to $30-$40 a month in savings versus March 1 rates.

FoYoazz: There will always be dealers who will not only negotiate but will treat you with respect. Keep looking until you get into a win-win situation.

dl7265 · February 2002

What happens at the end of the month ?

DL

sjmurray2 · February 2002

Can I have the name of your dealer? I will be moving to Norfolk, VA for one year under a military recall and have met with little e-mail success with local Tidewater dealers. NJ is not that far for me to drive, so would love the number and the salesman you dealt with? Scott

brave1heart · February 2002

They have to fill in the monthly quota of revenue from tickets. Around here, it is common practice.

nerd · February 2002

I don't know where you live in Texas, but I can recommend Mike Pile BMW in Tyler. Ask for Dave.

abcnyc · February 2002

I just picked up my 330i last week and I noticed that the wheels were really dirty - black film. At first I thought it was just picking up dirt from the road. Then I thought it might be dust from the brake pads. Has anyone else experienced this ? Is it just normal dirt from driving or is this something else ? If it is from the brake pads does it go away eventually ?

shipo · February 2002

Yup, it is totally normal.

I read somewhere just recently (in the last 6 months) that the German DOT (or whatever their equivalent is), has mandated that brake pads contain a certain percentage of graphite (apparently, unlike the rest of the world). Have you ever noticed how most German cars not fresh from a wash have dirty front wheels? Now you know why. The best defense; wax your wheels when new, then keep them clean and waxed.

Best Regards,
Shipo

nerd · February 2002

I saw the same phenomena with my wife's 325Ci that she bought earlier this month. I am sure that you are seeing brake dust collecting on the wheels. A large amount accumulated in the first 100 miles, but it washed off easily. (In fact, a lot of it washed off with the spray from a garden hose). Much less has accumulated in the second 100 miles. I guess that the new pads generate a less dust as they become broken in. Some dust will always collect as the pads wear.

Just wonder what happens to all that dust in the environment...

dl7265 · February 2002

I guess they forgot to tell me about this quota thing, o wait, its illegal and non-factual

.

DL

dl7265 · February 2002

it was a balmy 75f , so we took a roadtrip down I35 to Austin to the Texas Rangers Museum today.

On the return trip we followed a Steel Blue/Dark Blue soft top 325cic.I must say i thought the color combo was attractive, would have been a nice day for a car swap

One disapointment i averaged 25 mpg on the nose, however that was with 30+ crosswinds...

DL

bmw323is · February 2002

Get ready for a lot of wheel cleaning. That is the price to pay for a German car that brakes on a dime. The wheels on my car get dirty within a day of washing. Shipo is right about the waxing and keeping clean. I never use anything but soapy water and an old crummy sponge. It takes me about 20 minutes to clean the wheels this way each week.

shipo · February 2002

I am afraid that "I guess that the new pads generate a less dust as they become broken in" is just wishful thinking, these pads will generate the same amount of dust per stop regardless of their age. The only per mile factor is how many stops per mile. If I drive 500 miles in NYC, my wheels will be BLACK, however, if I drive 1,000 miles round trip to Fayetteville, WV (annual rafting trip on the Gauley), I hardly notice any brake dust at all.

Best Regards,
Shipo

tenet1 · February 2002

Shipo: How and what do you use to wax your wheels? Does it protect the alloy wheel over the long run or simply keep it shining? I know that they tend to loose their shine after a year or so.

Brave: Too bad man. Guess you weren't going too much over so it wont be too bad. This car is a ticket waiting to happen. Did your V1 not give enough warning? Around here the "end of the month" rush to give tickets is pretty obvious too as you see a hell of a lot more people pulled over.

shipo · February 2002

I use the Klasse All-In-One on my wheels; unfortunately, I did not discover the Klasse system until after my wheels were permanently stained by the brake dust. The good news, they have not gotten any worse since I started using Klasse (and maybe a little better), and the brake dust comes off a whole lot easier.

I will be taking Klasse to Germany in April when I fetch my 530i, and apply a coat to the wheels right at the ED center. With any luck, I should only have to recoat my wheels every 3 months or so to keep them easy to clean and shiny (when clean).

Best Regards,
Shipo

nerd · February 2002

I expect you are right for these cars. I was recalling primarily my experience with my GMC pickup. But, I don't mind cleaning the wheels on her car because they look so terrific.

By the way, what products do you use to wash and wax your car and to clean the leather upholstery? The folks at Meguiars tell me that they are trying to swing a deal to put samples of their products in new BMWs like they do now with M-B. I have been told by a BMW owner that he has used Lexol on the seats for several years with good results. We live in Texas where the sun, heat, and humidity truly take take their toll on a car. At least we don't have the problem with rust on the undercarriage.

Where do you obtain the Klasse?

shipo · February 2002

Nerd,

I use the Klasse system for the exterior of my car; I only use Baby Wipes on the interior. I may get seriously flamed for this; however, I do not believe in treating leather interiors, in fact, I have heard that treatments can actually accelerate the deterioration of the hides. In all, I have had 6 cars with leather interiors; the only one that ever had a problem was a 1970 Dodge Challenger (which spent its life in sunny San Diego), which had the leather seats start to crack after 180,000 miles and 8 years. Not too bad by my book given the fact that I have had non-leather interiors that started to split/separate at 90,000 miles and 7 years.

As for the Klasse, I went to Yahoo! Shopping and queried Klasse All-In-One and bought from Classic Motoring Accessories. I got a liter (several years worth) for something like $42, including shipping. The stuff works great.

HSpark,

I have no knowledge of any College Graduate Program, however, I wrote a lease calculator a couple of years ago (which has proven fairly accurate), so I took the liberty of running a few numbers for you. All of the lease numbers are for 36 months and 12,000 miles per year and do not include GAP insurance. The dealership that I ordered my new car from last week (Park Avenue BMW, Maywood, NJ  Mike Weber, 201-843-7900) seems to be willing to part with cars for $1,500 over invoice (plus $200 MACO) without too much fuss and negotiation. I ordered an ED 530i last week for that very deal, and it took a simple phone call to cut the deal. As such, all of the numbers I ran for you are Invoice plus $1,500 (profit) plus $200 (MACO) plus 6% NJ Sales Tax on the depreciated amount.

Sale Price - Lease/Mo - Car & Options
$27,784.08 - $420.95 - 325i
$28,431.98 - $431.08 - 325i, Xenon
$29,933.08 - $455.39 - 325i, Xenon, Sport Package
$30,937.08 - $466.11 - 325i, Xenon, Premium Package
$32,238.18 - $484.33 - 325i, Xenon, Sport Package, Premium Package

I hope this helps, good luck.

Best Regards,
Shipo

riez · February 2002

nerd... Is there really a Pile BMW in Tyler, Texas? If so, I find the name most amusing. You can tell everyone you drive "a Pile". They might get confused and think you are upset with your car. Might say something like, "Ya, my old car was a pile, a real piece of...." Picturing seeing the rears of lots of BMWs with the word "Pile" on the back somewhere brings a smile to my face. And what if you suffer from h'roids?

brave1heart · February 2002

I caught up with the police cruiser which was going about 55-60 in a 55 mph zone. About 15 cars were bunched up behind it. I drove 1-2 cars behind the police cruiser for about 3-4 miles. Some cars like delivery vehicles slowly passed him going maybe 65 while the rest of us were all following the cruiser at about 55-60 in a 55 mph zone. He pulled me over about 5 minutes after we'd be following him and said that he clocked me at 65. He did not use a radar. I am sure that legally this is referred to as entrapment (he is exceeding the speed limit to lead us into exceeding it as well) but knowing this does not help much. What really helps is the bottle of Lagavulin that I am about to finish tonight

)

brave1heart · February 2002

abcnyc · February 2002

Shipo,

Is this Klasse a cleaner and wax ? The name "All-in-one" seems to imply an all-purpose product. Does it also clean the wheels and exterior or is it just a wax to protect the wheels and prevent build up of the brake dust ?

nerd · February 2002

Yep! He is best dealer we have ever experienced. And, his logo is barely visible...just a small decal.

Now, if you want to talk about piles...let me tell you about my 2000 GMC pickup.

abcnyc · February 2002

Shipo,

I found some info on Klasse on Yahoo. It sounds like it cleans, polishes, and protects. It also seems to work on appliances and countertops. It's a desert topping and a floor cleaner - sorry it's an old Saturday Night Live joke. The 'instructions' imply you just wipe it on and wipe it off. I assume you still need to clean the car the old fashioned way (soap and water) first before applying Klasse. Do you also think the Klasse high gloss sealant for the final touches is necessary or worth it ?

Also, is this available in any retail stores ?

mrvish · February 2002

Hello all-

I have a 1999 BMW 323i with 55K miles on it. My lease is up next month and I'm trying to decide whether to turn it in or buy it out. I absolutely love the car. The car has been trouble free and low maintenance. However, with 55K miles on it I'm a bit concerned that as soon as I buy it, I will be hammered with major repairs. Anyone have any thoughts? I know it is a BMW but realistically how long will it last? Especially my manual transmission? My timing belt?

Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks!

mrvish@stratos.net

shipo · February 2002

Abcnyc,

So far, I have only used the All-In-One, and have been very satisfied. You simply wash the car, rub on and rub off. Good for 6 months. I find that I need to do the wheels about twice as often as the paint. I suspect that the polish will just add to the already admirable shine, and I will certainly put some on the new 530i.

MrVish,

I made the decision to turn in my 328i just a week and a half ago. Why? The current market for used cars is real bad right now (given all of the manufacturer incentives of the last six months for new cars), so the market value of my car has dropped about $6,000 in the last four months, and I cannot see paying more for my car than it is worth. Given that I have to lease for business reasons, my only option was to extend the lease using the current residual as the basis of the lease, but be forced to take an accelerated paydown because of the currently deflated used car prices. Were it that I had been able to make a descent deal on the car, I would probably have extended the lease (my leasing company wanted an additional $120 more per month for a 13 month lease extension).

I have heard that some folks are being successful at offering their leasing company less money than the calculated residual to buy out the car at the end of the lease. Once again, this may only be a short-term opportunity because of the current used car market. Unfortunately, that was not an option for me.

As far as reliability, I do not think you are anywhere near having a maintenance problem on your hands. The manual gearbox should be good to go for at least another 150,000 miles with a simple clutch replacement somewhere within 20,000 miles on either side of 100,000 miles (depends on how you drive), and BMW does NOT use Timing Belts, they use Timing CHAINS, which are also good to go for well over 100,000 miles.

My advice, if you can cut a good deal to buy the car (I would offer the leasing company at least $3,000 less than the residual), keep the car, if you cannot, turn it in, and get another one.

Best Regards,
Shipo

gurumike · February 2002

I have and use Klasse all-in-one and high gloss sealant glaze. Klasse is by far the best protection of its type available. I'll spare you my long winded enthusiasm for both of them (you only really need the all-in-one, or if your car is brand new, the sealant. Read about it at:

http://www.properautocare.com/polish.html

Yes you need to wash the car before application. Just a normal wash is all that's needed.

hfb · February 2002

1) I am looking at a 330xi with automatic, premium package and heated seats in the Philadelphia area. The MSRP is about $41,500 and I am curious what some of you would consider is a reasonable price for the car.

2) Does anyone know if there is any way to get wider tires than the 205/50/17 offered on the 330xi? Is there a technical issue with the xi that prohibits wider tires or is it just what BMW considers to be a better size tire for an all wheel vehicle?

tenet1 · February 2002

Thanks Shipo. I guess I better start using this before I loose the brilliant shine on my wheels.

Brave - I would contest this one in court if you aren't too busy. I dont see how a judge would hold this up. It is worth a try. I am working on finishing my Glenfiddich Solera Reserve 15 Yrs just now. Drove the Bimmer a lot this weekend. What a joy!!!

shipo · February 2002

Hfb,

Hmmm, about $41,500, does that mean 330xi, Metallic, PP, Heated Seats, Step, which lists for $41,535? Around here (Northern New Jersey) such a car can be had for about $39,550 with a little shopping, it all depends on your local dealerships.

As for the tire issue, it is my understanding that the tires that come on the 325i SP, which are 225/45R17s mounted on 17x8 rims will fit on the 17x7 rims that come on the 330xi, however, I would call tirerack.com to confirm this. Assuming that the 225/45R17s will fit, you can buy many different types in that size just about anywhere (including tirerack.com), and the tires will run you anywhere from $70 per tire for Continental ContiTouring Contact CH95s (NOT recommended) to $242 per tire for Michelin Pilot HX MXMs, including $122 for Continental ContiSport Contact tires which are the OEM tires BMW puts on the 325i SP. Keep in mind that reviews on the ContiSport tires range from downright bad to simply tepid, I have yet to hear a single bit of glowing praise of them.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · February 2002

If you mean, did I include any CAP cost reduction, no, I REALLY dislike the concept of CAP cost reduction when it comes to a lease. That said, I did take into account the "Typical" stuff that you must pay at lease inception, which usually amount to about $1,700 (plus or minus a couple of hundred, depending on the dealership and your state DMV charges) for items such as First Months Payment, Security Deposit, Doc Fees and "First years fees", whatever the hell they are.

Let us know how you do.

Best Regards,
Shipo

denright · February 2002

If you want to make your son a better driver, help him gain a skill which will bring him pleasure and convenience for the rest of his life, and give him a more fun driving experience, go for the manual transmission.

Once he learns how to drive stick (it will take a day or two), he will love it and will wonder why anyone drives an auto. The 325 will definitely perform better and be much more fun with a manual. Go for it.

Incidentally, there is a "Talk to the Press" thread on edmunds.com that had a topic of manual transmission memories. Check it out if you want to see why people love manuals.

brave1heart · February 2002

denright - good write-up in the "Talk to the Press" thread. I do intend to teach my kid(s) how to drive a manual some day even if manuals are extinct by then. That said, I would NOT buy a BMW (used or new) for my children even if I were a millionaire. They will have to earn their own BMW. A used Jetta to get them through college is a lot more likely.

sunnybrook · February 2002

With the release of these only 6 months away, can anyone provide information on what upgrades should be expected. I'm sure someone has a link to photos also that can be posted. Thanks...

shipo · February 2002

To the best of my knowledge, there will be NO changes to the BMW lineup at the beginning of the 2003 model year. There are rumors that the new 5-Series will be introduced sometime in 2003 as a 2004 model, but that is still just rumor.

Best Regards,
Shipo

raavir · February 2002

Could somebody paste a link here?

Thanx

tenet1 · February 2002

If you are waiting for a 3er with any major changes, then you may have to wait till late 2003. Thats a long way away...

nyccarguy · February 2002

How long after you take delivery of a new car do you all wait to throw on the first coat of polish (Be it Klasse or whatever else you use)?

nyccarguy · February 2002

Congrats to your son on getting a full ride to college. I think you're getting a good deal...Hmmmm...let's see $100,000 for a college education (private school) or $32,000+ for a 325i BMW. Definitely get him the car with a manual transmission. He'll take a few days to get it, but once he does, he'll love it!

jel620 · February 2002

On Saturday, I ordered a 330i w/ CWP, xenon, steel gray, and moonroof. I still have flexibility about leasing or buying. The sales lady quoted me a 60% residual and .00245 MF for a 36 month 15k/year lease. The residual sounds right but the MF seems high. I have seen others post a .00205 MF; can this differ across the US (I live in central Iowa)? I won't be able to take the car until May so the lease would have to be figured on the new numbers coming March 1. What will the MF and residual will be for a 330i after February?

Thanks!

nyccarguy · February 2002

According to one of our posters here (millero3) who is a BMW "Client Advisor," the residual of the 330i will drop from .60 to .59 on March 1.

shipo · February 2002

According to my manual, BMW has no recommendation regarding a delay prior to the first coat of polish. The following sentence was lifted directly from my manual: "Protect the finish using carnauba or synthetic-based waxes only."

It is my understanding that the dealership puts a coat of wax on the car prior to delivery, I do not know if that is just my local dealership, or if it is something that ALL BMW dealerships do. Regardless, Klasse is a synthetic-based polish, and I will be using it as soon as I get the car.

Best Regards,
Shipo

carwatch · February 2002

I was able to lock in my rates even if I'm getting the car in May. 6.0% for financing 60 months or MF of .00205 and 62% for 36/12K. All they needed to do was get me approved with BMW FS, put in the order for the vehicle and that's it.
On March 1, the MF will be .002125 and the residual for a 36/15K lease will be 59%. Financing rates still depend on your credit rating. Dealer I used is in NJ.

nyccarguy · February 2002

I can see you now polishing the car right after you take deliverey on the floor of the ED center!

postoak · February 2002

The real fanatics will tell the dealer to not even prep the exterior of the car. Then, as soon as they get home they wash it, clay bar it (removes imbedded abrasives such as raildust), wash it again, then wax it, or more likely, Zaino it. (I guess BMW considers Zaino a "wax"?)

hfb · February 2002

Thanks for the info on 330xi. Regarding the tires... do you know if I can have the dealer order me the same wheel/tire configuration that comes with the 325i Sport package (17x8 wheels and 225/45/17 tires) that you mentioned in your post? I actually like the look of the 17x8 wheels better than the standard 17x7 wheels that come with the 330xi and see that the 17x7 seem to be the only option for the xi (I actually also don't like the look of the wheels that are optional with the Sport Package on the 3301xi). Thanks for your help.

jim52 · February 2002

I don't think the MF's differ by state. More likely, the dealer has marked it up to get additional profit. It probably equates to you paying an additional 900-1000 in cap cost. I always ask to negotiate the price of the car using the base rate and let them decide how do recognize their profit once we have a deal.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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