Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I'm back with more advice....get the 330i.
First, you need to test drive both in the same day. At least, go drive a 325, since you've already driven a 330. And make sure both models have the sport package, so you can get a good feel for the real differences between the two.
Now, onto the pricing. You surprisingly will find that the more options you add to your car, the closer in price the 325 and 330 become. For instance, Leather is standard with premium pkg on the 330i, but is a pricey option on the 325. (the leather vs. l'ette debate is about as big as the car wax debate)
I first balked at the 330i because of the price, then I did the math after adding p/p & s/p metallic paint and xenons. Now I've gone overboard, adding Nav and heated seats, LOL!!
as I mentioned, print the invoice price list from the web, add your options (use the wholesale price, as well) and plug in the numbers. Trust me, if you do ED, you will NEVER EVER EVER Regret it!!! (you've got the Olds Intrigue until the bimmer arrives State-side)
2 reasons to consider about the sedan/coupe dilemma is (i) higher insurance on the coupe, and (ii) shorter doors on the sedan makes it easier to open doors in tight spaces or a small garage.
good luck!
1) I purchased from Tirerack a set of Blizzak LM-22s with matching 16" alloy wheels. I've yet to mount them, but am wondering what the optimal air pressure setting would be. I presently have the Michelin all-seasons and for those I go with the recommended 33f/38r. Should I do the same with the Blzzaks or stick to a neutral 35psi all-around?
2) I would like to get some winter windshield wiper blades. I'm thinking of the PIAA silicone blades that Bavarian sells, but would like to know if anyone has a better suggestion.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions, and sorry to waste the time of our warm-weather posters.
I haven't test-driven a 330i yet but did a 325i and was not too thrilled about the accelaration (auto). Of course accelaration is not the only factor especially when you're talking about a $5K difference. But which one to get?
Also, I just recently learned how to drive stick on a (Mitsu Lancer OZ) and I must say manual shifting is a hell of a lot of fun! So, when I decide on what bimmer to get, should I get manual or is the step-auto just as fun? I'm afraid I might regret getting a manual when I am stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Would you recommend a manual bimmer to a newbie or should I polish my driving skills first with my friend's mitsu?
Advice is greatly appreciated.
For most, this amounts to about 3+ months of paying for a car you don't have. If your lease payments are $600 a month, this is about $2K right there.
The transit time cost may be mitigated if you can sell your current car privately and keep it until the new car gets to you, or if you have extra vehicles such that you don't have pay extra for alterative transportation while the car is being shipped.
For most people, the savings in ED don't really pan out if all you care about is total cost.
- Mark
1. 330 vs. 325
I have to second ipatty's advice. Go and test drive both the 325 and 330 back to back. Take the car through its paces and see if it is worth it. In addition to an off-the-line acceleration test, be sure to see how the passing acceleration is. There are a number of people (more so on other boards than this one) that complain that the 325 is a dog (especially w/step). While I agree that the 325 is not really quick off the line, it is no slouch when accelerating from speed, which suits my driving needs (and btw, I have the step as well). Yes, the extra power of the 330 would be nice, but how often will you take advantage of it, and is it worth that extra premium? I will qualify my statement by saying that I didn't heed my own/ipatty's advice. I didn't drive the 330 because I knew that the temptation would be too great...do I regret purchasing the 325? Not at all. Do I wish I had the 330? I'm sure y'all know the answer to that one.
2. 5 speed vs. Step
This really is a personal choice. It really depends on your driving situation, driving style, and preference. From what I've heard, the 5-speed is noticeably quicker than the step. As far as automatic trannys go, the step in my BMW is by far the best I've driven. The step is a pricey option (around $1200 or so), so if price is a limiting factor, that may sway you towards the 5 speed. I got the step on mine because I bought the car for my wife and she cannot drive a stick.
3. ED vs. No-ED
I think markjenn makes a very good point. I didn't do it just because I didn't know about it.
4. CPO vs. New
I went with new because we are planning on keeping the car for a while, and I was uncomfortable about buying the car w/out knowing its past history. For a 5 or 7 series, that probably wouldn't be much of a problem, but for a sporty car which is more likely to have been driven hard, it gave me some added peace of mind.
5. leather vs. 'ette
Again, personal preference. We wanted leather in our car, so we didn't bother to check out the 'ette. I hear that it's very good though, and in retrospect may have been worth it for me to have looked into it. Be aware that leather requires more upkeep, and I have heard that it does not wear as well as the 'ette.
6. coupe or sedan
You're single w/no kids. Go for the coupe. It looks better (imo.)
7. The Olds dilemma
I believe you mentioned that money was a limiting factor. You say it's worth about $5500? How much would it cost to upgrade to the 330...?
All in all, just make sure that you are happy with the car--don't compromise on something now if you'll only to be kicking yourself later.
I guess what you need to ask yourself is:
What is the absolute most you will spend?
Are there options that you must have?
To do ED or not do ED?
Do you need the 3.0L versus the 2.5L?
Do you want bang for the buck and rather go Japanese?
I actually did not like the experience of buying a new car. I had to keep my wife in mind when I bought the car. Unlike Dave330i, I have to share the car. I can't say my car but I can say my truck. Go figure. If you are single, go for what you want. Consider that auto and leather are pricey options. I personally feel that the Xenons and SP are a must. After that, who cares. Get what you want but try driving every thing, i.e. 325i with or without slushbox and SP or 330i with or without slushbox. Also note 330i already has the sport suspension. With SP, you gain wider tyres, aero package, sport seats and steering wheel. With all this said, be glad we don't have the individual program in the U.S. That would make it harder to select a car.
If you CAN drive a manual, get a manual.
If you CAN'T drive a manual, get a manual and learn to drive it. (preferrably in a car other than your brand-new bimmer)
The only way I would pull back on this opinion is if you live/work somewhere where you regularly sit in stop and go traffic for long periods of time.
Here are our responses to your questions...
- drive both a 325 and a 330 and decide if the
extra HP is worth the cost. I look at extra cost on a per month basis considering how long I plan to keep a vehicle.
- the 5-speed is wonderful if you like staying engaged with the car. I would probably get the auto, though, if I were battling stop-and-go traffic every day.
- an ED can get you enought discount to pay for a well-planned short trip.
- I think that the CPO cars are generally overpriced, but I have never tried to negotiate a price on one.
- absolutely get the leather! Vinyl is still vinyl, and I think it would cook your backside during Texas summers.
- since your single, get a coupe by all means. Might be your last chance.
-I would keep the Olds for days when you didn't want to risk the BMW and for hauling business guests.
Let us know how your visit goes on Saturday.
- Can the 325i with snow tires cut it in the winter?
- Is the 325xi worth the extra cash?
- Is the Audi A4 1.8Q a better choice?
- Is there another Sedan I should look at?
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/1999/May/199905_feature_whatp.xml
In a snow region either a 325i or G35 with winter tires will do OK. The above C&D article discusses that in detail.
-- Joe
Again, I would like to thank everyone for all of the info. Thank you so much. After listening to so much info, I have to share this great moment with all of you. Nerd, thank you for the tip on a great dealership.
I have good news.
I AM THE PROUD OWNER OF A 2002 BMW 325Ci SPORT COUPE!!
Black in color, tan interior, tint, sunroof,HID's,prem pack, 5 speed, power sport seats, woodgrain, leather, sport pack, floor mats. Also the factory 17" are chromed.
It has 2,200 miles on it...out the door price, $32K and some change.@ 1.9%. It was a dealer/owner demo.Never titled.
The only difference between the 330 and 325 I could find driving them is the broader torque band in the 330 at higher rpms. To me the extra hp is within the higher rpms at highway speeds over 75mph. If a person must have an auto the 330 is the better way IMOP, but the 330 is not worth the extra $5,000. The dealer said this as well. Save the money for a M3 haha! Another issue, the BMW fake leather is very good. Hard to tell the difference. I know I went a little over budget a little, but it was a deal I could not pass up. The best buying experience I've had. I can't keep my eyes off of it. The only option it doesn't have is HK, but I'm putting in a nicer audio system next week anyway. A nice Alpine system. I'm a car audio nutt.
Friday I spent a lot of time with the G35 Coupe and Lexus as you guys suggested. The G35 is a very good car. Only thing, I could tell some cost cutting bits in the interior. Also, dealers were not willing to discount much on the price. It's more...edgy and racer like if that makes any sense. In some ways it can out perform a 330 by a small margin, but it's not as smooth as the 330. The G35 is sport lux, the 330 is Lux sport.
The Lexus Is300 is good. It's a little more "wiggle" on the road. Not as smooth as the 325. It's fast for 215hp. Smaller in the rear seat area and the interior doesn't shout Lexus but more of a good Toyota.
I kept the Olds Intrigue and put some money down on the 325. It's only pennies more on my insurance, and it's paid for. Plus, I'm going to drive it around more until I'm smoother with a 5 speed. I can't believe I bought a 5 speed, but it's so much fun with the 325. I've never owned a 5 speed, but again, it was such a good deal.
This week as been good. This time last week I didn't have any intentions of owning a BMW.
Now, the shocking news. My sister traded in her 3 series for a 2003 540i sport! I couldn't believe it. She said she thought about it before, but she was so impressed with the dealership and upfront treatment. I agreed to go to Germany with her. That's the only way she would use the ED program. So we are going to take a short trip to Europe soon. I'm so happy. We bought 2 new BMW's today. I must say, I think my next car might be a 540i! In fact, I'm a loyal BMW owner, just as long as they don't mess the other models up with the funky I Drive from the 7 series.
Another note, on the highway, it's so hard to keep this car under 80 mph.
I've never been so happy about buying a car. My sister even noted that I'm as happy as a little kid in a toy store haha!
Again, Thank you so much for the help. All of you.
Ben
The advice you have received here is outstanding!
Anyway, a piece of advice:
1. You will be doing ED in the middle of the European winter, so be careful with your driving. and forget about the Alps!
2. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know if the 540 sport comes with summer tires or all weather tires?
If it comes with summer tires, then, go back to #1 and capitalize all the words and add the word VERY VERY! before careful.
Here you are basically getting into E36 territory. They are a little "edgier" than the E46--the handling is a little sharper than the E46, but the interior is a little less luxurious. (Just wanted to mention that, and all IMHO.)
The basic trick with buying an E36 is to buy the newest model you can afford, as BMW upgraded and improved the car each year.
I've written a web page about my experiences buying and maintaining an E36 that you may find helpful:
http://www.band.calpoly.edu/~eengstro/bmw-buy.html
Don't let it scare you; my 325i is a '93, and has a few more miles on it than the E36s you'll be looking at. (Plus, I'm anal about keeping my 9 year old car perfect.) :-)
Eric
There are many races in the two-day event: Formula 3 (Senna, Schmacher, Hakkinen raced there before they moved to F1), motorcycles, stock cars, etc.
Here are some pictures from the official site (kind of slow) - http://www.macau.grandprix.gov.mo/gp2002/en/photo.php?category=2002stdm&title=SJM Guia Race
congratulations! I bet you will love the car. The 3 series is still the best car on the road IMO. They are the best looking car in the world. They handle great. They have the right balance between luxury and sport with sport>> than luxury.
I beg to differ about the G35. It is probably a great car for the money. I would not say it is sportier than a 3 series. It is more harsh and less refined, but this does not make it sportier.
phollie: Buy my '95 325 please.
I was cruising out hwy 290 to the NW of town yesterday and came up on a beautiful red '98 328is. It was in perfect condition and the two of us took off and had some fun driving a little fast. It was good spirited and what a terrific time. There is nothing like the unspoken bond between two BMW enthusiasts.
Earlier a black M5 came up on me on one of the main roads through town and we had some fun. The man driving it was about 45 and had his whole family in the car and we dragged a quite a few lights with each other. It was great fun. Neither car had an edge on the other. I loved the fact that his wife and kids were enjoying the car as much as he was.
What I love most about the new car: The MANUAL TRANSMISSION. I will never look back. I like it even in traffic (Houston has plenty of this) and with the cell phone (when the phone is necessary). Thank you DAVE330i. You changed my life. All that hounding that you have done has paid off and you have yourself a convert. I cannot help proselytizing about the clutch and the stick now.
BTW: I was driving on the south loop 2 nights ago at 12:30am and my V1 laser detector went off and standing next to the concrete on the inside of the highway was an HPD officer in the dark outside of his car checking speeds. I could not believe they would be out with the laser in the middle of the night. I thought they reserved that for the daytime since there is inherent danger in standing beside the road in the middle of the night.
The HPD are the only ones in this region that have laser guns (to my knowledge), but mostly they still use K band radar which is easily overcome by the V1.
I think 325i with 5-sp is plenty car for us in US. Unless it's on a track, Wyoming, or willing to lose one's driver's license, legal speed is just too low to fully enjoy a 330i.
Sporty automatic is in the same league as jumbo shrimp, military intelligence, etc, hence G35 can't be sportier than the 3-series.
Step vs. manual- BMW has one of the easiest manual in the business. I got stuck in traffic this morning. I was ticked off about getting stuck in traffic, but shifting itself was effortless.
Not a fan of the new Z4. I doesn't look like a BMW. To me, BMWs should posses classic beauty, not the current fad. Sort of like traditional 2 button suit vs. 3-4 button, double breasted, etc. 2 button may look dated from time to time, but it never goes out of style. Can't say the same about the other cuts.
If the 3 series gets a similar "updates" (it looks that way for now), I guess I'll have to switch to Porsche.
leenelsonmd-Good to hear you're enjoying your new M3. I keep wanting to get a M coupe myself. Any thoughts as to putting it on a track and really see what it can do?
But get this: Yesterday my wife and I and the kid were cruising in the M3 coupe and we came across an M coupe and waved at the guy. He laughed and waved back. Then, today I pull into the dry cleaners and this same guy pulls in right beside me and we start talking about our cars. He loves it and we both instantly connect because the cars put such big smiles on our faces. His is a red 2000 M coupe that looks brand new. He is the original owner and takes meticulous care of the car. I was lusting after his car, but he was slightly remiss that BMW had handicapped the engine slightly (HP 315 vs 333 and a redline at 7500 vs 8000). I reminded him that he was driving a classic, blah blah blah and he came out of it. Bottom line is that he loved the car and I just thought it was unbelievable that I would come across an M coupe 2 days in a row and then actually meet the driver. Pretty weird huh?
I thought about autocrossing the car a little. I am going to have to wait before putting that over on my wife. It was a stretch of universal proportions to even get the M3.
I agree with dave330i about power. Any of the 3 cars--325,330,m3-- with a manual transmission has plenty for the US. Both the 330 and the m3 tend to run out of room on the road before the driver has a chance to perceive how fast they are going. You look down and you're going 60 in a 30mph zone --oops! It takes only a few seconds to get there and then you realize you have to back off. It is tough keeping these cars within reach of the limit because they live for the 60-110mph zone. They love to cruise there.
What will we do when the next generation 3 series has 300hp and the next generation m3 has 425hp? I do not know. I cannot see that these changes are necessary.
I can tell you that the tire companies sure do appreciate these cars and what they can do.
The emotions are similar to those you might have behind the wheel of a beautiful 3 series. There is nothing like putting 150 miles on one of these things all alone in the darkness before anyone else is up.
I didn't see any of you out there. I was looking for seivwrig/postoak/kat kison.
leenelsonmd - heaven does exist after all! Lucky [non-permissible content removed] )
Why porsche? They sound like sewing machines and cost too much.
For the money I would stick with a BMW M. The only porsche to consider IMO is the twin turbo (for those who want to drop 120k on a car).
We will have to wait and see what BMW does with the next 5 and then later on with the 3. I do not see how the 3 series can look any better. As I said above I think it is the finest car on the market now.
Yep - I am convinced that it is the finest car. I went to the NE Auto show a couple of weeks ago and sat in a lot of cars. Amazingly, the E46 has more interior room than most bigger cars. Very ergonomic! Not to mention that it looks and feels better than any car out there. And we all know about the driving dynamics. I went to the show with one of my colleagues who owns a '91 Lexus ES300 manual (the only year they made them with a manual!) and he totally agrees that the 3-er is the best car for the money out there.
BTW, what's the stock tires on the M3?
Porsche- Only car company I like more than BMW is them. If it wasn't for the Banglization, I would stay with BMW, but ugly is ugly, no matter how long I stare at it. Interestingly enough M Coupe is a Bangle creation as well. I do like that one for some unknown reasons.
Looks like my next automotive purchase will be "GASP" an Acura TL. :O It's not for me, but for my mom. Now that I'm close to paying off my 330i (only $17k to go ), I'm looking to replace her aging Accord. Too bad she doesn't know how to drive a manual. Then I could have given her my 330i and get a used M coupe for me.
After about 2 weeks of driving and 300 miles later, I absolutely love the S-03s. They seem a little louder than the Contis, but soooo much better in performance. I'm still in the break-in period, so I haven't really pushed them too hard, but they've already surpassed the contis in performance.
That is way too early. In my college days, I would have probably joined. At 2:45, you probably could have went down 288 @ 100 mph after you got pass Reed Rd. It seem like my spirited driving days will be left to weekends. My job has moved from Pasadena back to Greenway Plaza area. Driving thru West U. is not my cup of tea. I guess I will not see 80 mph for a long time (my wife takes the toy away from me on the weekend). I guess I envy Dave330i, at least until he gets married.
I have not seen the Z4 yet. But I probably will go to the Houston Auto Show to check it out. I like the Z4. The 7 series is okay until you get to the Bangle butt. When we view cars, it hard to determine if you like but 10 years from now, the car could be a classic. I've never been a fan of Lamborghini but it does not mean they are ugly. The Porsche 928, when it came out (about '78) was highly touted during its time. Some might call the early 911 coupe and targa, stylized (sp?) Beetles. The BMW 2002, though classic, was attractive by American standards but was a menace on the track. I could list some of my favorite cars but the list would be long and mostly European. This is due to the fact that I don't recognize most American cars made prior to 1980.
Like they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Are any of you Houston folks going to the BMWCCA meeting on December 2nd?
A 911 Carrera is at least $20k more than an M3 and sometimes 25-30k more depending on how it is equipped. It is 0.7sec slower to 60 and is 0.8sec slower in the 1/4 mile. It is even slower in the slalom by 0.6mph. Now I am not trying to make the same argument that the Infiniti folk like to make, because numbers don't tell it all, but there is a very practical side to the M3 coupe. I drove my 17mo old little girl all over town today in the thing with the kidseat in the middle of the back seat. The other day I took a car load of 5 guys out for a beer. The M3 allows you to be sporty, but it also has a terrific, if somewhat underrepresented practical side. On top of all of this, the M3 roars while the Carrera sounds like a sewing machine.
There is also something mystical about a naturally aspirated Inline 6 (3.2liters) that can make 333HP. Truly a rare feat.
Now give me a 911 Turbo and my story changes. That is an unbelievable machine.
I will concede that if BMW takes the 5 and the 3 down the road of the 7 series then my loyalties may well change.
BTW: I also like how the M3 is a stealthy car. The average joe on the street won't necessarily think that much of it, which I like. The porsche is always instantly recognizable and comes with all of the standard assumptions that people have regarding those who drive nice cars.
Seivwrig: I graduated from college almost 9 years ago and have been married just as long. You could have made it. BTW I live at the corner of Buffalo speedway and Holcombe. If you see me around in the steel gray M3 coupe with a chrome longhorn next to the license plate start honking like crazy. I frequently drive through greenway plaza to pick up my kid at the Methodist church there at Edloe and Westheimer.
I do not know if I will make the BMWCCA event on Dec 2nd, but I will sure try. I have not received any info about it yet.
Dave330: stock tires are contisport contacts. 225/45ZR18 front, 255/40ZR18 on the back. I will probably need a new set soon at the rate that I am going. I have not looked into it yet. Should I go with the S-03s?
One more question? Don't you think that bimmers are more reliable than porsche?
-nobee
Does anyone know what changes are in store for 3-series '04 models?
Again, would like to say thank you for all the help from everyone. Nerd,the dealership said hello and to keep sending customers haha!!
Well, I picked my car up today from the shop. Wow, my stereo sounds really good now. I got al of the speakers and other audio equipment put in. It's better than Mark Lev from Lexus.
I'm getting use to the five speed. I can't believe I bought a five speed! But you guys are right. It's so hard to keep this car under 80 mph or so. I'm learning how to keep it in the sweet spot at 3200 rpm's. I'm really enjoying this car.
My neighbor loves the car as well. In fact, he is looking at buying a 3 series as well. Would you guys recommend buying a used 1999-2000 3 from a seller or CPO? I've noticed that CPO's are a little over priced. He wants to spend around 25K.
I'm falling for the M3 now. That's a lot of car. Anyone driven an M3 E46 platform?
Also, I'd love to hear about any experiences with ED. We're going to Europe I think at the end of Dec if I'm correct to pick up my sisters 540i. As one member stated, we're going right in the middle of a cold German winter. Does anyone know if the car will have snow tires on it at pick up or summer tires? Plus, how cold is it in Germany in Dec?
Ben
first, congrats on the Bimmer! I forgot to write earlier. Before you leave, you might want to check out a fairly new forum devoted to ED over at bimmerfest (), where you can read about other experiences and see some great pics.
Germany in December can be downright FRIGID! Nasty wind, too. It was so cold last December, I hated walking outside. So far, November has been awesome (by Munich standards), so I have my fingers crossed for next month (living here for a while). I would definitely plan for below-freezing temperatures, but it's a bit early to say for sure.
But, hey, as long you're inside that warm 5er, who cares? ;-)
I would stay away from the mountains if I were you. Also, summer tires are made with very soft compound, and it will harden in low temperature, so be careful.
Don't know of any changes for '04 as yet. Probably another feature baked into the base price. I would guess that the face lift will suffice till '06
Houston is full of Longhorns and also M3. Let's hope there are not many Steel Gray M3s belonging to Longhorns. I drive thru the area alot. My daughter goes to school at Lamar High School. Right down the street from the Methodist church.
I'm not sure which is more reliable between Porsche & BMW. I do know Porsche can be difficult to work on due to the packaging.
As much as I like the sound of the I-6 under my hood, I still prefer the high raspy sound of an air cooled H-6. Just a personal thing.
I like the new look of the Z4, I think it looks updated & modern as opposed to classic, "not that there's anything wrong with it" (j. seinfeld)
Getting old and cranky. I pooped out on getting up to see the meteor showers. I got the steptronic. The club scene feels like the Dark Ages at this point. It's a wonder my friends still talk to me! ;-) of course they're getting older too haha