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Comments
What a dumb thing for them to do! Who can afford a $200 each tire? You should at least have the option of whether to go with the run flat or the regular tires.
oh i see what they are up to.
'Why should you need a spare, when you have runflat tires???'
gee, what marketing geniuses.. You can definatley see the influence the OEM relationshiip has on future consumer goods....
sounds like you can get the temp spare as an option. (it's the same spare as all the other Sienna models). the spare well 'should' be in the same place in the Sienna as the other non-AWD models.. you wouldn't want to mess with getting a full size rim - then you'd need to make modifications to the underbody to rig it up there.
You could certainly get a wheel that matches the bolt pattern of the Sienna, and get a regular tire (much smaller in size) to mount on that rim.. but you would have to be sure it's overall dimension woudl allow it to fit in the spare well...
My advise is to wear these out with normal use.
If you get a flat or are in need of replacing one prematurely, then dump them all and get a whole new set. Then get the dealer to install your temp spare.
Not sure where they'd put it but if you drive as much as you mentioned I'd rather not take the chance of being stranded without a spare.
My guess would be that Toyota assumes that if you can afford $35,000+ for an AWD minivan, then you can afford a couple of hundred bucks to replace a tire (See my previous message #3605).
Rants like Weedshasta's confirm my belief that most people are driving expensive vehicles they can barely afford to buy (lease?), let alone maintain (hello all you dime-a-dozen BMW owners!). To that end, I expect most AWD Sienna owners will replace the OEM's with non-run-flats when the time comes.
List Price was $36,285. Price was $34198 + $98 doc fee. Probably not the best price available, about $2087 off list, but dealers in our area are not negotiating much since Siennas only last a few days on their lots or are sold before they get them. I Have a few questions if anyone would like to respond.
1. How long does it typically take to get a factory ordered Sienna?
2. What would be a fair price for Toyota Extended warranty? - (preferably 100,000 mile warranty)
3. Has anyone purchased the Toyota Dual Port System -the cargo carrier that attaches to hitch? How much is it? And any opinions
4. Does anyone know what going interest rate is from dealership or opinions on Internet financing.
Thanks in advance
And I don't think many owners will notice, as most people remedy a flat tire by dialing the auto club from their cell phones--whether they have a spare or not.
If you paid cash for the car, Weedshasta, I'm still not sure what the big deal is about a $200 tire. Sounds like my brother, who paid $42,000 (cash) for a new BMW 735i back in 1987, and still complains about the cost of the TRX tires it requires--($250 each and made only by Michelin).
And Nissan Quest is available with AWD.
You probably could still work a deal with another dealer.
Seems the 7yr/100k warranty can be had for ~$800.
As for interest rates, check with the credit bureaus (www.equifax.com) and see what your beacon score is. If you score 700+ you should qualify for the best rates available. Compare rates using www.bankrate.com. Your local banks will not compete with the low rates for individuals so allow your dealer to check on your behalf. They write 50-100 loans a month giving them more leverage with the local banks.
I've used Internet financing www.capitalone.com and would recommend it to anyone unless your dealer can beat the rate.
Steve, Host
2004 Toyota Sienna XLE FWD (carsdirect.com prices)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&- gt;> MSRP >>>>>>>>>> Invoice
Base ............. 28260 ......... 26367
Pkg 16 (GJ) ....... 6545 .......... 5274
CF (carpet mats)... 196 ............ 119
WH (xtra headsets).. 82 ............. 66
AW (all weather mats)98 ............. 70
WL (wheel locks).... 59 ............. 37
Dest Charge ....... 540 ............ 540
TOTAL ............ 35780 ......... 32473
Invoice .......... 32473
+ Dealer profit .... 120
+ Documentation fee . 50
+ Sales tax (7%) .. 2285
+ Tags/Title ........ 25
TOTAL OTD ........ 34950
The vehicle is on the dealers inbound allocation and should be here in 14-21 days.
Thanks again to everybody for the inspiration and guidance. We had to go to this local dealer about 3 times along with a fax attack to dealers in a 5 state area to get there. Me and my family have owned 5 Nissans and 2 Toyotas over the last 30 or so years. Our last 3 vehicles have been Nissans and we have loved them all. But, the driving feel of the Sienna tipped us over vs. the Nissan Quest.
toyota obviously designed the AWD Sienna with runflat tires in mind knowing full well they had no place to put the spare with the drivetrain underneath.
so it sounds like toyota salesmen are more likely to spout "this vehicle has runflat tires! you'll never need a spare!" than the more truthful "this vehicle has runflat tires and with them you will never need a spare! however, keep in mind that there is no spot for a spare tire in the AWD Sienna so you will continue to need runflat tires in the future."
i think any AWD owner has the right to be a little angry over this regardless of how much the vehicle costs or how wealthy they are or are not. the fact of the matter is they are obviously average or even below average performing tires from what those of you who have them are reporting. some people are reporting theirs wearing out at a pathetic 15,000 miles!
i know i'd feel taken if i did...
While your salesperson may trumpet the fact that the vehicle has run-flats, he or she may not mention--or even know--how much these tires cost.
The alternative locations could be mounted inside the rear cargo area. Mounting it on the rear door wouldn't make sense so there really isn't many options left.
Think about where other makes mount their spares and consider what options you would loose if the Sienna was to match their locations.
Heywood1 is right, make sure you consider the price of replacing the run flats when shopping the AWD model.
I also suspect that we'll start seeing space saver spares mounted on the roof racks of '04 model AWD Siennas in about 3 years :-).
Steve, Host
Having said that, I would carry a fullsize spare on any trip more than an hour outside of my area, and sacrifice a bit of room and flexibility.
Yesterday was our neighborhood's annual Easter Egg Hunt for all the kiddos. A couple about our age (36) pulled up in their brand new '04 Phantom Gray Sequoia. Although it was beautiful (I must admit), I am more pleased than ever with my decision to buy a new XLE AWD Sienna. For $10,000 less (even considering real-world street prices for both models), my Sienna has:
much better seats
more luxurious interior
more cargo room
better MPG
power lift gate
better handling
& cheaper insurance
To be fair, though, the Sequoia seems to be the vehicle of a Rhodes Scholar, as compared to the antiquated Land Cruiser that another friend of mine just bought (smaller, six-year-old design, and yet even more expensive). Seems people drive the LC only to demonstrate how much they spent, not how much they know.
My advice: If you don't need the towing ability of a V-8 (most people don't)--buy an AWD Sienna, don't worry about the Jones's, and use the $10-20K you save as a down payment on a condo at the beach.
if people in the know were right, then it will cost $800 for all 4 tires!!! it's not safe to just replace one while the other three had, say, 15,000 miles on them. it's like having different tires on 4 wheels.
Sienna XLE Artic Frost/Fawn Pkg #14...$31,500, $33,858 out the door. Dealer has allocation for vehicle, has to change the color for us. Should have it in 3 to 4 weeks.
I checked Costco pricing, Carmax pricing (I live close enough to Kenosha), and larger dealers in my area (Chicago suburbs). Two dealers quoted this pricing for me, and it's very close to the Carmax pricing. Carmax can't get me the color I want. One dealer, the one closest to me would only come $500 off MSRP (about $34K)!
Is this too good to be true, should I keep trying for a lower price, or should I take it before it's gone? We'll probably finalize our decision tomorrow.
The Dunlop brochure that was included with my XLE AWD clearly states: "Like any other Dunlop speed-rated high performance tire, the Dunlop SP Sport 4000 DSST tire may be repaired to correct a nail-hole puncture in the tread, but proper materials and procedures must be used...."
for your convenience, i will excerpt below;
"Run-flat tires
......
When the tire goes flat or when the tire pressure is below 100kPa(1.0kgf/cm2 or bar, 15 psi), the tire must be replaced. If you are not sure, consult your Toyota dealer. Do not use the repaired tire."
mine is FWD, so i don't have the Dunlop thingy. i do believe what you said is true about what Dunlop said. i would think by stating that their expensive product is one use only would deter most people from buying it.
however, it's alarming that Toyota would go against the tire manufacture by clearly stating "MUST BE REPLACED", and "DO NOT USE THE REPAIRED TIRE". don't you think?
i tend to believe the car maker more than the tire maker. it's your call though. after all, safety is much more important than money. just my 2 cents.
In this case, I believe that if a nail punctures the tread and you get it repaired before the tire pressure falls too low, then you can repair it and be on your merry way.
If however, the nail punctures the tread and you loose all air pressure while driving, then the run-flats are doing their job and you are putting extra stress on the sidewalls. This extra stress on the sidewalls is then why you wouldn't want to reuse that particular tire.
So you're both right.
Huh? Are you SURE about that?
I never even considered a Qwest, as Nissan interiors tend to be underwhelming, quality-wise-- so I admit I don't have the brochure memorized.
Wow, you people on this board love to play 'Gotcha.'
Also, I have the Consumer Reports 2004 Car issue, and the Nissan Quest is only listed with front wheel drive in 2004. CRs only recommended minivans in descending order are the Sienna, Odyssey, Mazda MPV, and Nissan Quest.
It's gold and white, and the cover reads: "Dunlop SP Sport 4000 P225/60R17; Dunlop Self-Supporting Technology (DSST); Toyota Original Equipment Tires; Owners Manual and Limited Warranty."
In it is the language I posted earlier regarding repairability, including a CYA disclaimer that reads, "Contact an authorized Dunlop DSST service facility for information on proper repairs." There is also a toll-free number given to find the nearest authorized Dunlop DSST service facility near you. Am I allowed to post it here?
Anyway, To keep this board on-topic, I'll direct future run-flat chat to a more appropriate board. But I believe this info is useful to anyone considering the purchase of an AWD Sienna.
As for Quest AWD, I really thought it was available now, or will be in the near future.
YES!!!!!
.....at least, those of us who don't have a life outside of the TH....8^)
Although I would agree that sometimes the piling on isn't really necessary.
I am in U.S. military overseas right now, and will be coming to Northern Cal. in about a month to go to grad school for awhile.
Have done considerable research, and am pretty sure of what I want: Sienna, 8-passenger LE with option package 11 (DVD, etc--4th kid on the way; DVD now not optional....), plus mats/sill protectors and updated security. MSRP is a bit over $30K, and the 'CarsDirect' price is a little over $28K.
Will be new to No. Cal, so have no experience with dealers there. Would appreciate any insights on who's good and who's not, so that I can see what's out there beyond the CarsDirect price (which seems pretty good).
Thanks for reading.
jfd713, I live in N. California. Hanlees Toyota in Davis is one of the CarsDirect dealers. They are also the Costco dealer, and the Costco price beat the CarsDirect price. You have to go on the net to the Costco site if you are a Costco member. Hanlees was very good to work with and gave me the price we had agreed to on the phone. They also gave me dealer blue book for my trade in.
"...I believe that if a nail punctures the tread and you get it repaired before the tire pressure falls too low, then you can repair it and be on your merry way.
If however, the nail punctures the tread and you loose all air pressure while driving, then the run-flats are doing their job and you are putting extra stress on the sidewalls. This extra stress on the sidewalls is then why you wouldn't want to reuse that particular tire."
thank you for clearing up the confusion for me. so the awd owners should not run the run-flats after they got punctured. get them repaired as soon as possible, or you will face stiff penalty--shell out more money that is.
if one can't run flat on the run-flats, make you wonder what is the use to have the run-flats at first place?
RFTs may not be bad after all. In my 20 years of driving I've had three flats (two of them slow leaks) and with Sienna having a tire-pressure warning sensor, a total loss of pressure will likely be a very rare occurence. However, it is not like Toyota doesn't tell you about the lack of a spare. IIRC, Toyota does sell a compact spare that can be mounted in the rear seat well. However, AWD&Runflats or FWD+regular tires is a choice the buyer has to make at the present time!.
With an Odyssey, the buyer has a one piece "Magic Seat".
With a DC minivan, one does not get a 5 speed automatic transmission or Toyota reliability.
Some people liked pre-2005 DC AWD because they could still get either a full size spare or mini-spare. However, DC minivans did not have fold-into-the floor seating.
With a Volkswagen Eurovan, the buyer gets neither power nor fuel economy but does get the most spacious interior.
With a Kia Sedona, the buyer gets the most gas guzzling minivan with one of the smallest interiors...however, the Sedona is appealing as it is cheap.
The 2004 Sienna offers the fewest compromises of any minivan with more options available than any other minivan.
There are some tire pros hanging out in the Tires, tires, tires discussion - not much about runflats though. Not yet anyway!
Steve, Host
I got a quote today from a dealer for $800 over invoice on a 8 pass CE with pkg 3 and floor matts. The invoice on Edmunds shows $23263 (CE 8 pass, pkg 3, and matts); when you add $800 you get $24063.
The salesrep told me their invoice was 23906 but couldn't explain to me what the $643 difference with the internet price was even when I hinted about a possible TDA fee. So checking with another dealer I was told the TDA in my area for the Sienna CE is $469. So 643 - 469 = $174. So I am not sure what the other $174 is. (gas + some flooring?).
I am really having a hard time deciding between the CE with pkg 3 and the Ody LX. I find the Ody to be more of a driver's vehicle with better throttle response, handling feel, and brake feel. The Sienna is more plush with a quieter ride and better interior along with some better/newer standard features. Coming from a sporty car back ground I would like driving the Ody more on a winding road but can appreciate how comfortable the CE would be on a long freeway trip.
I live in the Northeast and am in the market for a Red Sienna XLE AWD with options package #17 GK and CF Carpet Floor Mats/Door Sill Protector.
Edmunds and other sites have confirmed the invoice cost at $31,005. I have received several quotes as low as "$450 over invoice", however the actual sales price of these quotes is NOT $31,505 and varies a bit from dealer to dealer. The prices can be an additional $600 to $800 per dealer. Am I missing something like Documentation Fees, Plates, and TDA? I want to know the lowest possible price and negotiate from there (compare apples to apples). Is TDA negotiable?
The lowest price quote I received was for $32,100 and $900 for the 7/100k/0 warranty.
If this were a Camry, grinding a dealer down to invoice minus holdback and TDA would be possible.
But you're going to have to live with a dealer making A LITTLE money on this AWD Sienna. $32,100 is a great deal. Tell them you'll take it if they'll sell you the warranty for $800.
JoeBlow, what dealer gave you that quote for $32,100?
Lucky me, out here in Arizona, got a $741.00 TDA fee...
I have talked with other Arizona buyers, and they too have been charged exactly 741 for TDA.
I don't think it's a money maker for the dealer, and my dealer said it is not an option to even THINK about removing the TDA.
As host Steve always says, focus on out the door price, not line items.
I recommend that all of you unlucky enough to be living in some of these other distribution zones get some quotes from dealers around here.
The sticker for my XLE AWD was clean, with only three factory installed options (#17, V2, WH), plus Central Atlantic destination charge of $540. Period.
I have one final question. I have managed a rate of 3.85% for 60 months through CapOne. Can Toyota or anyone else beat that? I live in New England, if that matters...
Thanks!
I financed a relatively small amount compared to the price of the van, as the '03 Sienna I traded was paid for, so I'm not sure if that had anything to do with the rate.
As with other manufacturers' low-rate offers, I believe your credit score, debt ratio, and payment history must be near-perfect in order to qualify.
I was con'd by the Toyota Finance guy (... yes the guy you see after the salesman) when they said my credit rating wasn't good enough for 4.9% interest rate that was negotiated with the salesman beforehand. He said my credit rating was below 700 -> but when checking at www.myfico.com later that night, my credit rating was actually 718.
In the end I went for 6.25%, it seems he added around 2 percentage point for dealer reserve. It was just a small $12K loan after my trade-in and I wasn't too upset figuring I can easily refinance at a lower rate anyway. They had the color combo that was hard to find in our area so I bit the proverbial bullet. Besides my wife next to me was really determined to go home with the new van ...
Anyway my question is:
I know that Finance guy made a commission from Toyota Credit Corp. on the deal with the higher interest rate of 6.25% ( his Dealer Reserve). If I refinance it now and pay off the loan with Toyota Credit Corp, does he lose his commission or is he paid all up front???
Oh how I wish he loses it when I refinance ;-)
PS. They have been sucking up to me via phone messages regarding the up coming new car buyer questionnaire form I will be receiving soon. I will try to use that to get some freebies if possible by threatening to give them a bad grade (... what comes around goes around...).
How important are good ratings from that questionnaire for the dealer? Do they win a million dollars or something if they get "Excellent" in all categories???
-Thanks in Advance
I'd recommend calling them on beacon issue. Call and ask for the GM or owner. You should receive something.
It gets hard to maintain good credit and many who actually are fortunate to do so should be allowed the benefits. What good would this credit rating actually serve if everyone receives the same rates?
I have read much about the 'Toyoguard' and other stuff on edmunds.com, and thats not even an OPTION to get out here.. Haven't heard it come out of one dealers mouth.
No rustproofing, paint sealant/primer etc....
I think if you nickel and dime these guys to death, they will feel less likely to 'earn' any future business.
As mentioned, I negotiated a XLE LTD w/ 06 for $600.00 over invoice..
now, granted, I added the 741 TDA fee as part of the invoice (even though that LINE ITEM is notlisted on the invoice)..
I don't know where the logic is, but 600 + 741 is just short of $1400 bucks.. STILL in my opinion a decent deal.
Because I treated the dealer fairly, he promised to 'toss in' some stuff from the parts dept.. (cargo net, mud flaps etc... - we'll see about that)
You know, you would think more dealers would be on these boards... with clear explanations to all these fees, and to represent their dealership!
I was con'd by the Toyota Finance guy (... yes the guy you see after the salesman) when they said my credit rating wasn't good enough for 4.9% interest rate that was negotiated with the salesman beforehand. He said my credit rating was below 700 -> but when checking at www.myfico.com later that night, my credit rating was actually 718.
In the end I went for 6.25%, it seems he added around 2 percentage point for dealer reserve. It was just a small $12K loan after my trade-in and I wasn't too upset figuring I can easily refinance at a lower rate anyway. They had the color combo that was hard to find in our area so I bit the proverbial bullet. Besides my wife next to me was really determined to go home with the new van ...
Anyway my question is:
I know that Finance guy made a commission from Toyota Credit Corp. on the deal with the higher interest rate of 6.25% ( his Dealer Reserve). If I refinance it now and pay off the loan with Toyota Credit Corp, does he lose his commission or is he paid all up front???
Oh how I wish he loses it when I refinance ;-)
PS. They have been sucking up to me via phone messages regarding the up coming new car buyer questionnaire form I will be receiving soon. I will try to use that to get some freebies if possible by threatening to give them a bad grade (... what comes around goes around...).
How important are good ratings from that questionnaire for the dealer? Do they win a million dollars or something if they get "Excellent" in all categories???
-Thanks in Advance