Mercedes-Benz S-Class

merc1 · July 2002

Yeah that's it alright, but hopefully they'll change the color a little....lol.

M

aaron90210 · July 2002

Does anyone know how many digits the odometer readout has? 5 or 6?

chapman7 · July 2002

I have a 2002 S55 with approximately 500 miles on it and have had a problem with the tires from day one. The steering wheel vibrates and the car shudders when you drive it after the car has sat over night or for a longer period. The vibration gets very noticeable above 35mph. MB tells me it is due to the "soft tires" on the S55, which they say form flat spots after the car sits for awhile. Has anyone else experienced this situation with these tires? Is there a tire available that doesn't perform like this? Thanks for your help.

roger58 · July 2002

Your dealer is right. I have a 2001 S500 sport, which has the same wheels and tires (Dunlop sp9000's). Being performance tires, they are designed and built to emphasize handling, as such soft nylon belts are used, and the rubber compound is 'soft' to enhance traction. That however is the tradeoff. When the vehicle is left overnight, the tires will slightly 'flatspot', hence the vibration the next day. However, once the tires warm up, and the rubber becomes more compliant, you will notice that your vibration completely disappears. How far and at what speed you have to drive to warm the tires are based on the outside temp., but allow at least 5 to 15 miles. You should then be completely vibration free. This trait regrettably, is an inherent characteristic of pretty well all the high end performance tires. If after a good drive with the tires now fully warm, the vibration remains,have your dealer recheck the wheel balance, or check for a rare, but possible defect in one of the tires.

chapman7 · July 2002

roger58: Thanks for the info on the soft tires.

jrct9454 · July 2002

...have been six digits on MBs for so long I can't remember when it was otherwise...many moons ago, anyway, and long before 1992...

indychamps · July 2002

Hey, I'm looking at a '96 S320 LWB in fabulous condition and am curious about peoples opinions of the 24,000 price tag, it's a V6.

Also any knowledge of how this model year has held up. When do major service overhauls tend to occur, etc.

Thanks

jrct9454 · July 2002

It's a straight 6, and one that has a reputation for being prone to oil leaks, both at the back of the valve cover, and in the front. That's one thing to check carefully.

ssinhas72 · July 2002

Thanks for the fantastic information on this board. I have recently moved to US and looking for a luxury car around 50 K US price range. One of the options I am evaluating :
Pre-Owned S class sedan.

Based upon the prices I have seen so far it seems I can get a 2000 Model S430 with about 40,000 Miles for about 50-55 K USD. I am planning to lease it for three years and hopefully buy the same later.

Do you think it may be a good option ?
Any particular thing that I may need to be aware of ... I have no specific color or options in mind

thanks in advance !

tiger40 · July 2002

The S is a beautiful car ....but you should be aware of some things and I will share my experience and you can make up your own mind.

First the 2000 will have a analog non-trimode phone instead of digital trimode. This will limit your phone range and phone service options if you decide to use the phone.

Also I have a 01 S430 and have had several things go wrong and I bought mind new! Here is a list:

Brakes make noise after 10k miles-was told that this is due to the metal pads they are now using and I had to fight with Mercedes to put Brake Silencers on the car...this has help.

The entire Navigation unit went and had to be replaced...that cost almost $7k

I have had to replace the keys several times because they did not open the trunk or the doors.

Had to replace the phone twice

And just this weekend...it was towed away because of Antifreeze leak (I don't know what is wrong with it...I will find out this Monday)

Having said this, I would strongly encourage you to get a extended warranty thru the dealer if possible.

ssinhas72 · July 2002

thanks Tiger40 for the information, I do plan to ask for extended warranty.

Is there any other thing that I need to be sure of in a two year car, I am wondering about some of the points ...

- Is 40,000 Miles too much to consider in buying a two year old car
- Is there a way I could check if this is a car that has been in any accident
- In terms of price, is 50K USD a reasonable price for a two year old S430

thanks a ton !

tiger40 · July 2002

Is there any other thing that I need to be sure of in a two year car, I am wondering about some of the points ...

- Is 40,000 Miles too much to consider in buying a two year old car >That is on the high side and although it is a 00....the car was probably on the road at least half of the year in "99.

- Is there a way I could check if this is a car that has been in any accident. >Yes, you can put the VIN through Carfax.com. It is a small fee and you will get a report back on that vehicle.

- In terms of price, is 50K USD a reasonable price for a two year old S430 >I think it may be high...but it is what the market will bear. Edmunds has a really good assessment for new and used car prices. Below, I just put some general info into Edmunds and it appears that you are getting a very good deal! But run the VIN thru Carfax to make sure of no major accidents and lastly get an extended warranty for sure! Lastly enjoy one of the most awesome cars made today!!

2000 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 4 Dr S430 Sedan

Color: Black
Mileage: 40,000
Condition: Clean
Zip: 01879

Trade-in Private Party Dealer Retail

Base Price $51,882 $55,014 $57,905

Optional Equipment $1,729 $1,840 $2,158

Color Adjustment $136 $144 $152

Regional Adjustment $82 $87 $91

Mileage Adjustment $-841 $-841 $-841

Condition Adjustment $0 $0 $0

Total $52,988 $56,244 $59,465

Certified Used Vehicle $61,015*
* You should expect to pay this amount if this vehicle has been certified as part of a manufacturer or authorized reseller program.

merc1 · July 2002

http://www.4car.co.uk/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=211&id=4081

M

benznut · July 2002

Mercedes is giving Audi, BMW, and VW no time to breathe. The new flagship, S600 with 500hp is sure to smoke the new 760Li, Phaeton- and A8-W12s, as well as probably anything else in the class, while also giving midsize luxury sedans (the likes of M5) a real run for their money (although, for twice as much money, it really hurts).

Ever since this engine was talked about regarding to Maybach, I dreamed of its combination with the S. Surprisingly, Mercedes is turning this dream into reality, by being exremely dearing in the power department (not one, but two 500 hp models, S600 and S55).

I am awaiting the stats to see how the Twin Turbo and AMG compare in performance. S600 is said to reach 62 mph in 4.8 seconds, and we already know that MB tends to be conservative in the beginning (SL55 consistently beat the claimed 4.7 sec in almost any test done by magazines around the globe). My logic tells me that the AMG should be even faster, or else what would be the point. Although, the current S600 has outperformed the current S55, so anything can happen.

To all who can afford these fine automobiles, I wish I was in your place!!!

benznut · August 2002

If you take a look at post no. 413 at this threat, posted by yours truly, you can read how I somehow "felt" it in my "MB-infected" blood that we woold eventually have a 500 hp S Class. What I did not know is that we were going to have two :-) Hurray!

Where si everyone? It is such a special time for MB fans, and no one is around? Or should I assume you are lining up at the dealerships? LOL

wishnhigh1 · August 2002

Could it just be that nobody cares?

benznut · August 2002

...I thought this was a place for enthusiasts!

cjileong · August 2002

Was thinking about this. It's common sense, but I feel better when it's print. Anyhoo - if both are making 500 hp...S600 with 800Nm of torque and S55 with 700Nm...either way, it doesn't matter right? Since the S55 V8 will be lighter (and overall the car will be lighter) than the S600 V12, then wouldn't the performance figures on the S55 be either comparable or better than the S600?

But I still like the S600 better...

benznut · August 2002

The 5.5L Kompressor V8 is not a light engine. And keep in mind that the new 5.5L V12 should be relatively compact (I think). Isn't that the sense of using turbos?

I also would like the S600 better. It is smoother, quieter, and should be much more refined, be it in the ride or the quality of materials (more high wuality wood, whereas I can see the S55 getting aliminum or stone trim, which in itself is not bad). And that extra 74 lb/ft of torque should make for a more relaxed acceleration. The torque peak in the V12 also comes substantially earlier (at 1800 rpm) whereas the S55 achieves this at 2650). I do not believe that the S55 can outperform the S600. I believe the difference belies in the way these two engines will deliver the power. That should make them feel like two different animals.

Both of these cars are a bit of an overkill. They have as much horsepower, and more torque than a Viper. These power games are getting crazy. At least, MB is giving BMW, AUDI, and VW a run for their money. Somehow, their 400 something Hp seem less than before. That should make for some overtime at the development sites. I can say it is safe to assume that an M7 is in the way.

I am looking forward to seeing some more official information, including some specs, for there cars.

wishnhigh1 · August 2002

"...I thought this was a place for enthusiasts! "

Trust me, I am a full fleged car enthusiast. I just find it hard to be enthusiastic about a car that less that 1% of the United States population can afford.

benznut · August 2002

At this point I cannot afford an S600 either, but I still get excited about such achievements at my favorite brand, as it may ne something I may drive a few years down the line. That one percent of the population probably does not have time, or desire, to talk in a chat room, when they can be driving their cars.

Anyway, I am sorry for stretching it like this. I do respect your opinion.

wishnhigh1 · August 2002

Well let me tell you how I feel.

I feel that Mercedes is a great company, with a great product...and they know it. Just like Harley Davidson did when the bikes they built were the best. Now look at them...they are just overpriced machines for fat slobs who still think Peter Fonda defined the Badass category.

I see the same thing happening: They begin to care less about keeping at the top of all of their game, because they are the top name.

However, Mercedes is taking a different approach to the situation. Harley Davidson decided to stop revamping their product lines, and just sell the same bike year after year, and increase their prices to fit their market demand (brilliant buisinessmen behind this thought process...I mean who cares about the prolonged future success of the company as long as I can retire comfortable).

Mercedes is doing it a little different. The top of the line Mercedes products blow away the competition. However, on a price competitive basis, they blow away nothing. The C series mercedes are nothing but dulled up BMW 3 series clones, marketed to make it seem like you are buying a piece of S500. The SLK is a dulled up BMW Z3, but marketed to make it seem like you are buying a piece of SL500. etc etc etc...In reality, they are just boring cars with nothing innovative but the name.

So yes, I would love to be the person to drive an SL500...but unfortunately I am not, and thousands of other car enthusiasts are not as well. We could buy a lesser Mercedes, but as we all know, there is nothing too enthusiastic about the lesser models.

Mercedes is content selling mediocre cars, at inflated prices, because they have a few standout cars and a rich history. A hypothetical exaggeration would be like Ferarri deciding to revive the yugo(maybe build it in italy though), and market it as having the same rich sports car tradition and heritage as a $250,000 Ferarri. But you get all hyped up about buying a new Ferarri that you can actually afford, and it is nothing but pure disappointment.

Porsche has it covered. When you buy a base boxster, you get the same, or similar enjoyment as if you were to buy a GT2. BMW has it covered as well...when you buy a BMW 3 series, you get a little mini piece of what it would be like to drive an M3. Even Lexus has it covered...buying an ES300, you get a little taste of the luxury to be had with an LS430. However, Mercedes has their top of the line product too far out of reach, and their available product lacks all similarity to the good stuff. But it sells because the Mercedes name is/was at the top of their game.

That is why I, and many others, do not get excited about a new Mercedes supercar coming out. There is not one single remote chance that we will ever experience anything like it...desipite what the clever copywriters conjure up.

I think it is fun to dream about cars. However my dreams have shifted. Instead of dreaming about McLaren F1s, Porsche Turbo S's, Ferarri 550s, and Aston Martin Vantages...I have decided to dream about having a well paying job with a loving family, and a house that I own, with a nice, $14,000 Dodge Razor to drive to the track on weekends...with my son in the passenger seat, observing everything I do so when it is his turn, he can make the same run.

So, call again when they decide to put a 250 horsepower engine in the C230 coupe...and still keep it less than 30 grand. Thats the stuff that gets me excited, and somehow I feel that many enthusiasts feel the same way.

merckx · August 2002

I do partly agree;I'm not really interested in talk of very high powered S-classes. The only one I'd really consider is the S430. And even this one is not as decontented as I'd like. The Command system,for example,is a $2,000 option on the lesser cars. I really wish they would make this an option across the board,as I think it utterly useless.
the S Class is a car I admire greatly,but I find the AMG version too boy-racerish,and the 12 cylinder just too needless.

benznut · August 2002

I do not agree with you that non-top-of-the-line MBs are not exciting. Let Mercedes be Mercedes, and BMw be BMW. If I wanted to drive a 3 series, I will buy the BMW and not look into the C-Class. The people who buy the C Class do it for the design, as well as for the hevy feel (read stability) in the road. The SLK in my opinion does not want to copy the Z3 (didn't they come at roughly the same time?!!), let alone the SL500.
I admit that I would rather buy a 3 series before a C-Class, but that is me. Not all people looking for a compact sedan are looking to do what I would into a 3 series, that is drive it sportly.

mbnut1 · August 2002

I agree! except for the 3 before C part. For me it's C before 3. For me It's about "as well as for the hevy feel (read stability) in the road" and quiet refined ride. Drove a C320 yesterday. What a nice car except it had 25000 miles and the goodyear eagles made a lot fo noise and the bushings squeeked.

jstyle · August 2002

MB has released the press info on the 2003 S and documented the changes/modifications. There really isn't all that much except for engines and 4-matic. Interior looks the same and exterior changes are hardly noticable. Worth checking out though

www.germancarfans.com

v12power · August 2002

I guess I am fortunate, I am able to buy the top of the line cars. I have an '01 S600, the wimpy 362 hp version, and a '98 750iL. These are truely worth the money if you can swing it. The S600 is a true marvel. My wife and I just completed a 3000 mile driving trip to Colorado and back in the 600. The command system is very useful, no need for maps with the nav system. In addition it finds hotels and provides phone numbers etc. The features, like a turn signal the flashes three times with one touch, become hard to live without. The power is intoxicating, the active suspension is amazing. I was cornering at insane speeds on mountain roads in this car. The look, the feel, the features, the performance are the standard of the world.

As a side note, I ran across a Mc Laren F1 near Telluride. It was silver with NY plates. He passed us going the other way, then must have turned around because he came up behind me shortly thereafter. We were on a pass road between Placerville and Ridgeway, I selected "sport" and picked up the pace. I was no match for the F1 but, we had a VERY good time. It is a bizzare site to see the driver in the middle of the car! He finally shot past and continued on. Like most of these experiences, we saw the highway patrol right afterwards, I am glad he was in front, and happier still that we had toned it down by then. It was my first sighting of an F1, very cool car!

benznut · August 2002

Will you get the new S 600? Yours is hardly "wimpy", but those extra 138 hp. should make for a huge difference.

Myself, I will be glad to get a 2001?2002 used S600 a few years down the line, hopefully with sport package. By then, some depreciation will be dialed in.

lovenavy · August 2002

anyone in los angeles know any fine mb dealerships
i can purchase a S500 from.

v12power · August 2002

I was, of course, joking about the wimpy part. That is another thing I cannot imagine, letting such powerful machine loose on the streets. BMW, MB and Dodge are all coming out with 500 hp cars. That is really nuts if you think about it.

My 600 goes 0-60 in about 5.5 seconds, that is seriously fast for any car let alone one of its size. It already wears fixed caliper Brembo brakes grabbing cross drilled rotors. This is serious stuff for a sedan. I personally think it would be irresponsible to sell a 500hp car to someone without some high speed driving instruction under their belt.

I honestly don't know if I will follow the trend up and buy the newer versions. They are spectacular but, I am tempted to simplify. I would be tempted by a V8 mid size from BMW or MB. Maybe even a wild RS6 Audi would do. The honest truth about these cars is that they require more service than I care to keep up with. As they get more complex and powerful I suspect the maint headaces to continue.

ejerod · August 2002

IT's been a while since I've posted anything.. about 3 months ago I had to replace my brilliant 2001 S500 w/AMG Sport package with a 2002 S500 w/AMG SP due to some unfortunate problems with the first. I wrote MB and the dealership and the district manager came down and gave me plenty of incentive to stay with MB. I'm glad I did. The new 2002 S500 is performing flawlessly, and last week I just got my new 2003 SL500 with AMG Sport, keyless go, Parktronic, Distronic, ABC, and every other available option. Because of my bad experience with my first car, the dealer skipped me to the top of the list, discounted the car 5 grand ( I still ended up paying 10k over sticker due to the incredibly high demand and one year waiting list ) and I got my car 24 hours after I left a deposit. Let me say this. If you ever get the chance to drive one or own one, get it. This car is absolutely wonderful in every way!!!. It's the perfect blend of luxury and sports car convertible for any price. I have business associates that are considering Ferrari's, Lamborghinis etc. Don't get me wrong, those are fabulous cars and anyone that can afford one is fortunate indeed, but for the money, dollar for dollar, pound for pound, I'd have to agree with Robb Report's assessment that this is the car of the year. To those of you who are fellow owners happy motoring. TO those of you who are aspiring owners.. welcome to the boards... and keep your head up, and your vision pure.. you'll get there.. and when you do, let us know.. we'll celebrate your success with you.. Take care, be safe, and love someone other than yourselves and family members...

merc1 · August 2002

Naturally I completely disagree with your post #1223. If you can't get excited about a expensive Mercedes because only %1 of the population (per you) can afford it, why in the world would anyone care to get excited about a 911 either, especially the "great" onces, 911 TT and GT2. Neither are cars that most can afford. They're all in the same boat.

Now about the lesser Mercedes models not being much. Please, that pure bs. The C-Class does just what it's supposed to: drive like a Mercedes, ride like a Mercedes, and it has most of the same features of the higher priced Mercedes. What, every Mercedes is supposed to have 300+ hp. If you're going to look at it that way, the base Boxster doesn't make any sense at all, considering it's price/hp ratio. You don't think a C320 sport gives you *some* of C32's feel and ride, just like a BMW 330 gives you "some" of an M3? A Lexus ES300 is a Camry with a better interior, period. It's amazing what wood and leather can do. Toyota is so incompetent at styling that they couldn't even give the 2 cars their own look, they look more alike now more than ever.

I hardly think Mercedes is in trouble because some a car-board don't get "excited" about a new MB. You have nothing to back up that me and "many others" statement. It's funny how the magazines keep harping about driving dynamics as the reason that they prefer BMWs, but MB outsells each BMW model in almost every class worldwide and in the U.S. In short (I've said this elsewhere on these boards), let BMW be BMW, and MB be MB.

"However, Mercedes has their top of the line product too far out of reach, and
their available product lacks all similarity to the good stuff."

What? I don't understand that statement. A 911TT or GT2 isn't out of reach, or a 760Li, or an A8.

What similarities does the C-Class lack compared to the S or E-Class cars? If you expect a complete S-Class replica at C-Class prices you're not going to find that type of relationship at any brand. All you're going to get from anyone's small car (Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar etc) is a taste of their larger cars, thats the whole point of the entire "entry-level" segment.

It's cool with you me that you don't like Mercedes, because thats obviously the reason for such a off-base post. You're a Porsche fan right, I'm starting to wonder.

v12power,

Trouble with the S600? You don't even sound the same......

M

v12power · August 2002

Five trips to the dealer in the first 10k miles. It is time to speak up. First was a oil level sensor, fixed the third time in. Lost a mass airflow sensor, replaced at the second visit for the oil sensor, it failed on the way to the dealer that morning. Two trips in for lack of top end power. First time in it was mis-diagnosed and they replaced a coil pack. The second time in they found the problem. The V12 shuts down one bank of six cylinders under light load. Part of the process is to block that half of the exhaust. The valve that does the blocking failed choking the engine at high rpm. It is fixed now. We had no problems on our 3000 mile plus trip to CO and back.

My '98 750 has been to the dealer 19 times in 45k miles. I bought the 600 expecting better things from MB. I think the reality is that these cars have gotten SOOOOO complex that it is difficult to keep the reliability up. This is where the Lexus crowd chimes in. The difference is that my 600 has far more technology built in that any LS430. I am sure they will catch up in features, they are excellent at copy catting. That will be a few years down the road to be sure. So I am currently a little dis-illusioned about these top of the line cars.

Circumstances change as well. I may be spending a lot more time in the mountains. I have property there, of course the access is a gravel road. I may have to change my moniker as both V12s may be sold/traded off soon in favor of 4x4s.

Don't get me wrong, I think the S600 is the finest car availible. The power and handling are at near Porsche levels. The luxury features shame Bently. The style is faultless, I really love the car. More than anything it may just be time for a change.

merc1 · August 2002

Wow, what a difference a few months make huh? Sorry to hear about your S600's problems. Whatever you do don't get a Lexus...lol.

M

wishnhigh1 · August 2002

"Naturally I completely disagree with your post #1223. If you can't get excited about a expensive Mercedes because only %1 of the population (per you) can afford it, why in the world would anyone care to get excited about a 911 either, especially the "great" onces, 911 TT and GT2. Neither are cars that most can afford. They're all in the same boat."

That is not the point. Mercedes' expensive cars are exceptional. Mercedes less expensive cars are nothing like them. They share very little technology. They share very little in way of build quality. The only thing they do seem to share are those headlights.

The C coupe is a wheezy underpowered kid car. The CLK is a luxurious fast and solid coupe.

It would be different if the C coupe was a slightly less fast, slightly less luxurious, and slightly less weighty coupe...but its not.

The thing with Porsche, you get the same kind of fun and driving enjoyment in a 50k Porsche as you would in a 120k Porsche.

So, you said it correctly: All you're going to get from anyone's small car (Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar etc) is a taste of their larger cars, thats the whole point of the entire "entry-level" segment.

Except, my point is that I dont get that with Mercedes entry level cars. Nearly all other brands I get this feeling with, but Mercedes no. All I get is a bunch of mediocre, compact, RWD buicks, with marginal build quality, very little luxury beyond the cow you are sitting on, and an unrefined powertrain.

wishnhigh1 · August 2002

I tried to fight the urge, but I cant help but comment on post1234.

Learning the hard way sucks, doesnt it?

Merc...remember all your derogatory comments about Cadillac and their failed attempt at cylinder deactivation. I think your words were similar to "Cadillac failed but Mercedes got it right". Looks like you spoke too soon, doesnt it?

Personally I wouldnt go with lexus either, V12power. But thats just me. You might be too jaded right now to not look at lexus. It sounds though, like you are looking for a nice 2002 Audi A8 quattro.

I remember reading a motorcycle magazine editor section...fairly recently. Topic was how Japanese bikes have no character.

Editor said something to the effect of: Screw that...I once spent the night at a piss poor hotel in kettleman city, CA, because my Norton had just a little bit too much character. Buy a cheap fun bike with lots of character for local rides, but buy a real bike when you want to get somewhere.

merc1 · August 2002

"That is not the point. Mercedes' expensive cars are exceptional. Mercedes less expensive cars are nothing like them. They share very little technology. They share very little in way of build quality. The only thing they do seem to share are those headlights."

Simply not true. The smallest of Mercedes' cars share all the same safety and engine technology. What do you want a V12 C-Class?

The C230 is doing just fine thank you. Now the BMW 318ti was a wheezy kid car, the C230 offers almost all of Mercedes' virtues at a very low price.

"The thing with Porsche, you get the same kind of fun and driving enjoyment in a 50k Porsche as you would in a 120k Porsche."

Boy you're in left field. Yes that may be true with Porsche because gasp(!) they only have 2 cars! No luxury brand's smallest cars drives the same as their largest most expensive car. Not BMW, Lexus, MB, Jaguar, Audi, none of them. You're really reaching if you think a 325i drives the same as say a 745i or 760i.

"Except, my point is that I dont get that with Mercedes entry level cars. Nearly all other brands I get this feeling with, but Mercedes no. All I get is a bunch of mediocre, compact, RWD buicks, with marginal build quality, very little luxury beyond the cow you are sitting on, and an unrefined powertrain."

Well you might not get it, doesn't really matter, because buyers i.e. those buying the cars are.
If you think a Mercedes drives like a Buick then you're lost. Unrefinded powertrains...hmmmm...funny never seen than anywhere about a Benz unless it's on the 4-cylinder models. I personally don't want any 4-cylinder Benzes to be sold here, but if you think the V6 cars unrefined you're alone in that thinking, especially when it comes to the E320 and C320 models.

Yeah I remember exactly what I said about Cadillac's sorry attempt and Cylinder - deactivation. The difference between MB and Cadillac is that MB's technology does work, and it works better than Cadillacs ever did. One S600 has a problem and yes the whole idea has failed yet the V12 has been on the market for 2+ years now, without any major problems. Once owner, yep that makes it complete. Get a clue.

M

v12power · August 2002

I have to go with Merc1 on the cylinder deactivation. My minor foible was NOTHING resembling the V8-6-4 disaster. Most folks would have likely never noticed it. I did, and the fix was simple, nothing more than a broken clamp. I expect, on such a low volume model, that a diagnosis is a little trickier.

I am not looking at Lexus. They may be wonderful cars but if you want to compare to Buick, there you go. The LS430 is a more refined, reliable Park Avenue, no style, no soul.

I think one problem with the C-class is that it is not as good a small car as the 3 series BMW. With a 330i you get one heck of a fun little car. The C320 offers no manual trans, the manual trans 240 is no match for its BMW competition. That does not mean the C does not have many other MB virtues, I think it does.

If you move up one class to the E and 5 series, I think the E-class are spectacular cars. The 5 has a worthless back seat, the E is comfortable. I would even choose the E55 over an M5. On quality I would say the 3 series beats the C-class, but the E-class definately beats the 5 series. I guess I just don't know how much S-class character you can build in for $30k. I think the 3 series by comparison has always excelled over the smallest MB.

I think the C suffers more by comparison with excellent competition than by being a poor vehicle in its own right.

baron87 · August 2002

You should NEVER have problems, any at all. It's riduclous...a broken clamp here and there...but that's okay, right? Because it's a Mercedes, right? It's amazing to me that our almost two-year old Cadillac DTS has never had any problems at all...and for more than half the price! There is a major discrepancy here...

Just my $.02...

wishnhigh1 · August 2002

"Yeah I remember exactly what I said about Cadillac's sorry attempt and Cylinder - deactivation. The difference between MB and Cadillac is that MB's technology does work, and it works better than Cadillacs ever did. One S600 has a problem and yes the whole idea has failed yet the V12 has been on the market for 2+ years now, without any major problems. Once owner, yep that makes it complete. Get a clue. "

Cadillacs cylinder deactivation never worked? I am assuming you have "numerous" stories about how the V8-6-4 blew up in everybodys face. "I had a friend's uncle who had a mistress, who's dog's personal trainer owned a Cadillac V8-6-4."

Right?

The fact is, the technology worked, it just didnt work too well. I know someone personally who owns a V8-6-4, and it still works. The advantage is maybe 5 mpg, but it still works.

But I am also assuming you will pull the "thats just one person" argument again.

Somehow, just one person doesnt matter to you when you are talking Mercedes, but just one person seems to matter when talking about Cadillac.

benznut · August 2002

Enough with that Cadillac crap now, for real! So what, we here are Mercedes fanatics - that's the topic bro! I do not want to sound discriminating, but I come at this thread to read something interesting, hopefully new, about the recent facelifts, etc. It bothers me to death hearing your comments back and forth about Cadillac. When Caddy catches up with the big boys in the luxury/monster-sedans department with the others (like that 16 cyl. concept pitched against Maybach, Bentley and the Like) then come here and brag all you want. Of course, you are more than welcome from me to talk on the subject, even if it means bashing at the entry-level MBs.

benznut · August 2002

Does anyone know any more specs about the newly revised S/CL 55 and 600? What are the wheel/tire combos on the 600s?

I am looking forward for more information on these facelifts, but I guess keeping people waiting is part of MB's strategy.

wishnhigh1 · August 2002

Alright...I can do that.

So why is the ultra-expensive but low volume S600 having so many problems? Does Mercedes perform real world testing on their flagships? Why are these problems popping up?

Why are Mercedes owners/fanatics justifying the unreliability of the car?

This car costs in excess of 100,000 dollars. At the very least, they could assist in repair costs as a service to the customer. Unless they dont value their customers anymore.

merc1 · August 2002

Darn right Cadillac's crap 4-6-8 didn't work, because it got pulled from the market due to it being such junk. You're making up excuse after excuse for Cadillac, when everyone knows that their systems was junk. How do you explain a GM exec on C&D television admitting that is was garbage and that want everyone to "forget" it when GM debuts the technology in 2004 on their full size pickups.

The fact remains that Cadillac PULLED the system from the market because of problems, Mercedes hasn't and won't because they aren't having nearly as many issues with it.

You hear from the S600 owner that it was a minor problem in the first place yet you equate that with technolgoy not being sound, yet it's in V12 Benzes all over the world and there hasn't been so much as sound about it. If Mercedes' V12 was having the kind of issues Cadillac had you'd being hearing about it in same manner everyone is hearing about BMW M3 engine failures, i.e. it would be big news.

There is a difference between one Cadillac fanatic keeping a 4-6-8 model running all these years, AFTER Cadillac pulled it than hundreds of MB V12 worldwide using their cars everyday, I know you understand that.

Now you're going to tell me that you know the technology worked even when GM admitted that it didn't. Truly blind.

"So why is the ultra-expensive but low volume S600 having so many problems? Does
Mercedes perform real world testing on their flagships? Why are these problems popping
up?"

Do you understand that no car is perfect? My point is that Mercedes-Benz is closer to being perfect than Cadillac will probably ever be.

"This car costs in excess of 100,000 dollars. At the very least, they could assist in repair
costs as a service to the customer. Unless they dont value their customers anymore. "

Where oh where did anyone say they had to PAY MONEY for repairs on their S600 because of the V12?

You've truly lost it.

M

merc1 · August 2002

Did you have to pay anything for any of your S600's repairs?

M

jstyle · August 2002

In R&T lastest issue about future vehicles they state the next gen S-class has a "stepped" body design similar to the Volvo S80. Also Auto Bild mag in Germany said something similar stating that the new S will have a strong hood "crown" (best translation) and be a departure (for MB) design. They will keep the signature grill and current dimensions except for perhaps height (taller stance)and add more technology than the 745i with a more intuitive Nokia designed interface (what ever that means) according to the report.

merc1 · August 2002

Well Nokia has been put in charge of the next generation Comand system, it will also have Bluetooth technology. A totally new type of interface.

M

pat · August 2002

merc1 and wishnhigh1 -- you both know that a meaningful comparison between Cadillacs and MB's belongs on the sedans comparison board. Please take it there. Oh, and remember that civil and respectful discourse is a requirement of your Membership Agreement, okay?

Thanks.

Pat
Sedans Host

merc1 · August 2002

Ok.

M

v12power · August 2002

I would agree that it sure would be nice to have zero failures on a car that expensive. The minor failures that have occured have been quickly fixed AT NO COST.

I would say that not only does a comparison with Caddilac not belong here but it would be nothing short of absurd ANYWHERE. I drove a new Seville SLS for 10 days immediately prior to buying the S600. Trust me, it is like comparing filet mingon and dirt.

I did trade the S600 off however. We already had a V12 BMW. While the S600 was a serious tour de force, it may have been a tad sterile next to the sportier feeling BMW. Besides the payment on the BMW was less than 1/3 as much since it was purchased lightly used.

I really miss the car but, we are trying to purchase land in the mountains. Two V12 cars was overkill, something had to go. We bought a new G500 as a replacement.

Mercedes-Benz S-Class

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