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You drove a 750 mile trip right after you bought it? I hope you varied your speed instead of cruise at a constant hwy speed. New cars are supposed to need some break-in period, by varying the engine RPM, unlesss the latest generation civics can do without it, but I haven't heard of this yet.
Yes I varied my speed, but most new cars come with cross-hatching on the cylinder walls to seat the rings properly, which are the major break-in issue. The other issue is "hot spots" due to oil starvation at high revs on "high" metal to metal areas, or due to high pressure of metal to metal at any rpm due to overloading (most usually early upshifts and heavy throttle). There isn't a lot of space for oil to squeeze into, in some areas of a new engine, that's what break-in is mostly about. If the ambient temperature is too hot (or the engine isn't designed for uniform temperature throughout the engine block, via coolant and oil flow channels), the oil can break down in spots where the metal is too tight, or if the metal is too tight oil can't flow to those spots too well at higher rpms. So I was taught to keep at 3/4 throttle, not to "lug" the engine (heavy throttle at low rpms), and to watch the ambient temperature and load factors.
Up the grapevine, a steep hill north of LA, I downshifted to 4th to keep the engine from lugging, and drove at a moderate speed to keep heat load down. Along the flat stretch, driving down on a cool evening, I let the car run from 70 to 85, which is a max rpm of 3300, not too high, with hardly any throttle on this gas sipper. All starts were at half throttle with up shifts below 3,000. I was a good boy.
I was a little worried about the rings seating, since conventional wisdom says ring seating works best with occasional almost-full throttle acceleration - that jams the rings against the cylinder walls to seat. I figure my drive to LA was actually too "easy" to seat the rings, but on the other hand it was so "easy" that there is probably still plenty of time to seat them, while in the meantime some of the "high" spots in the engine should have settled down.
Yeah, I remember my VW GTi dealer ('83) telling me to drive as fast and as hard as I wanted during break-in, but please don't use the cruise control. On this new Civic, I used the cruise only to rest my foot from time to time....
I had two Neons in recent history. I traded in a 1999 5 speed. I had swapped out the stock restrictive exhaust for a "straight through" Magnaflow, which was reasonably quiet> With the less restrictive exhaust the car ran very good, strong acceleration and quiet cruise. The stock suspension was a bit harsh but easy to control on mountain roads. I haven't tested the new Civic on similar curves yet, but initial experience on sweeping freeway cloverleafs is positive. The 1999 Neon was a rowdy but fun car. I'll miss it. I traded in for the Civic due to the much more refined driving experience. Only negative on the Civic so far is some occasional rear suspension harshness over expansion strips and ridges - a section of road that was just a bump for the Neon sent stuff jumping in the trunk, not to mention jarring me (the front end wasn't so harsh). Part of this may be due to warm up of the shock fluids, and break in of the shocks.
The other Neon was a 2001 California only "S" model which came relatively stripped down (no power anything), but with a nice engine and 5 speed. The stock engine was quicker than the 1999, until I opened up the 1999 with the Magnaflow. I was never happy with the handling on the 2001, however, it was sloppy compared to the 1999 or the Civic. I tried upgrading the sway bars to the R/T level, but could only do this on the front because the Daimler-Chrysler people cheapened the second generation Neons by leaving out the rear sway bar mounting brackets on the rear struts (first gen had them, so you could upgrade).
Any other questions about my swap/upgrade, let me know. So far so good on the Civic. It is much better than the 88 CRX and 93 CX hatchback that I had. That's no surprise, right?
I am not happy using 5-20 oil, since it is not available in Mobil 1 or any other full synthetic. I think these small engines need the best available oil. Frequent oil changes can't make up for overload conditions, like pulling up a hill, going fast in hot weather, accelerating hard - all conditions that can squeeze oils out of the metal to metal gap. Not to mention viscosity loss due to engine shear etc.
Any recommendations on oils? My dealer uses Quaker State, and Quaker State says their 5-20 oil satisfies the Ford WSS-M2C153-H standard, which requires double the test hours of normal "SL" "GF3" quality oil. In other words, 5-20 oil that satisfies Ford's spec beats ordinary 5-20 oil. Castrol GTX, Motorcraft, and Pennzoil are all labelled as passing this test.
There is also supposed to be a Honda spec, but it is "secret" in the sense that there isn't the amount of published information on it like the Ford spec. The label on the Honda brand of oil (made by Exxon-Mobil) says it is the best because it satisfies Honda's spec, but doesn't reference the spec.
It could be that when the dust settled on the SL/GF3 question (oil companies and car manufacturers fought over the spec, the oil companies to keep base stock prices down, the car companies to protect the cars on lease better), Honda was ok with the SL/GF3 spec. Or it could be there is a spec overlay on SL/GF3, like with Ford. About the only thing I could find on this issue was in the owners manual, which doesn't insist on much in the way of scheduled maintenance, but does urge the use of Honda brand motor oil. I can't believe Honda is just interested in making a few bucks off its own branded oil. I can't get any information on this issue from Exxon-Mobil. Has anyone else run into this issue? And what kind of oil are you using?
Since Quaker State claims they satisfy SL/GF3/Ford spec, I will probably just use it and stay with 3,000 mile change intervals to make sure the oil is in tip top, and not worn out, condition.
The Honda website also says "don't change the oil before the recommended interval" because it is a special break in oil, and required for break in. The recommended oil change interval is 10,000 miles, except severe service is 5,000 miles. Severe service is nothing but trips less than 5 miles, and I drive mostly 20-30 miles, but there is no way I am going to trust the environmentally friendly people at Honda on this issue. Unless you guys have good arguments otherwise, I think I will change oil at 3,000, which is what the dealer recommended anyway (of course they make a few extra bucks, too).
I thought my Firestone FR 690's handled fairly well on my initial 750 mile roundtrip (375 there, then back). Of course it was mostly straightline, with only a few freeway cloverleafs and on-ramps.
However, last night I looked at tirerack.com and the FR 690's are badly dissed for having terrible wet weather performance by customer-reviewers - something like 3.5 on a scale of 10, vs. more typical tire scores in the 7-8 range for wet weather performance. One reviewer even said these tires were so bad, his dealer was willing to swap them out for stock Dunlops.
Any thoughts or comments? Are the reviewers wrong, is the tire designed for Honda better than generic FR690's, has the tire changed? Should I start thinking about changing tires?
You sound like you know a little about how engines, etc. work. My former car was a Neon. It was always having oil leak problems. When the warranty was up I got rid of it. Car I drive now is having head gasket problems (which was covered under warranty). Am now considering a Civic but have heard some scary stuff about the new ones; (sudden acceleration, hard starts, extremely bumpy, etc.)
Just wondering if you have had any of these problems? Do you recommend purchasing one assembled in Japan (vin# starts w/ "J")? How long have your owned your Civic?
Nice safe car for a compact. My biggest complaint is the bumpy rear suspension. On uneven pavement it produces a bouncy ride that is annoying to say the least.
Thought I would share how well my little 99 Civic held up in a pretty brutal collision. I was on the freeway in the far right lane. A woman lost control of her car in the far left lane. I had zero time to react when I noticed her car flying into my lane sideways. I hit her at 55 MPH, spun around and hit the concrete barrier hard enough to break the concrete in two. It was very frightening. However, I was able to get out of the car with a bruise on my knee and stiff back and neck but no major injuries. I thought for sure my entire front end would be gone but it held up very well. The car is not salvagable but it did its' job.
Of course, the loan was almost paid in full. Now we start over unless we get another used 99. My husband has the 02 Civic and is very happy with it. After much research, I think we'll stick with Honda!
Yeah the Neon was fun, but so is the Honda. I have 856 miles on it now, and felt comfortable enough with the break in process to open it up a little - once the revs pass 3,000, it is like a different car - more Neon like, with a growl.
As for the harsh rear suspension, it was smooth on the way home. I think my early morning jolts came because the bumpy part of my ride is near home, not near work, and the strut fluids were cold. On the same road coming home, after a drive which warmed up the strut fluids, the car was supple. So maybe they retuned the suspension. I heard Honda definitely modified the Civic suspension from 2001 to 2002 in response to complaints. Having owned both the Neon old, Neon 2d gen, and Civic, I would give the nod to the Civic, except on price.
I was thinking about that 10k oil change interval... yow, it seems kinda high... though 3k miles seems pretty frequent... I'm at 10k now, and I've been following the severe maintenance schedule, but I also got the extended warranty and am only planning on keeping the car as long as the warranty is in effect (7 years), so I'm debating whether or not to follow the regular maintenance schedule... but I don't know if I have the guts to go 10k/change...
I had a nice conversation with a tech rep at one of the major lube companies this morning, and once the tech rep loosened up, learned a few things.
First, Honda is apparently now revising its spec to be 0-20 instead of 5-20. They will release the spec next year.
Ford actually has a spec overlay on 5-20 oil, which is WSS-M2C153-H. The oil companies (there was a convention recently) are unhappy that, first, the manufacturers beat them over the head to make a major upgrade across the line from SG/GF2 quality oils to SL/GF3 oils, and now, second, Ford (and Honda) require 5-20 oil (for which there is a small market compared to 5-30 and 10-40) and, on top of that, Ford wants "super SL" oil with their spec and Honda wants "something different from SL, but nobody knows what it is," with their spec. The oil companies just came out of a period of Balkanization of standards with ACEA, Japanese valve wear train standards, and other fine print that made it onto the premium grade oil bottles, and now Ford and Honda are sidestepping the API and GF counsel dictates again....
This oil tech rep also let me know that Ford is the only company that currently offers a synthetic blend of 5-20, which she felt is far superior to straight dino oil if you "race." On questioning, she considered occasionally hitting 100 on a Nevada road, for example, to be "racing" where the oil film on a conventional oil could break down. She recommended using full synthetic under those circumstances. She also considered pulling any type of trailer to be "racing" in terms of load and wear.
Finally, I found out that both Pennzoil and Quaker State satisfy the stricter Ford spec (Quaker State is upgrading their product labels and spec sheet, Pennzoil is already updated), but only Honda brand oil satisfies the "secret" Honda spec since either Honda has been unwilling to share it with others, or only Honda's private label manufacturer (Exxon-Mobil) has been willing to go the extra expense and testing to make sure Honda brand oil satisfies Honda's desired spec. Personally, I think its more of the latter than the former.
I called Exxon-Mobil and they told me Mobil 1 will be out in 0-20 in March of 2003. It will satisfy both the Honda and Ford spec overlays. And its full synthetic.
The gist of this is that Jiffy lube is ok (they use Pennzoil which satisfies the Ford spec), Castrol is OK (Ford spec), and Honda oil may be best for Hondas - it satisfies Honda's spec, which may be looser, stricter, or sideways compared to Ford's spec. Of course, I haven't found a Honda dealer yet that actually uses Honda oil as their routine oil change oil, - the dealers usually have special "deals" with companies like Quaker State, Pennzoil, and Chevron to use their lubes across the board. Honda oil is just a niche player, and some customers think Honda is just trying to make a couple of extra bucks anyway, instead of trying to protect the motors.
Motorcraft synthetic blend 5-20 is recommended by the tech (her company apparently private label manufactures this oil for Ford, even though her company doesn't sell a blend themselves yet due to the small market demand) for high speed or redline driving, until full synthetic is available. She said that frequent oil changes will make up for other issues that can vary with Honda oil, such as long term fuel efficiency, friction reducers etc. In other words, she thougth Motorcraft Synthetic blend, with 3,000 mile changes, is better than Honda label oil, which is straight dino oil, at 5,000 or 10,000 intervals. She also thought the 10k intervals Honda is recommending are nuts(Ford, by the way, is on a 5K normal, 3K severe cycle) and at a MAXIMUM 5,000 mile intervals should be used, and never 10k intervals regardless of oil brand or type. Having seen the deterioration graphs on motor oil over its usual life span, I tend to agree with her, although oil changes this frequently are a pain in the butt. Since I am a fast and aggressive driver, I'll probably do 3k changes, which will make my dealer happy (they recommend 3k oil changes, damn the owner's manual).
The dealer told me to buy some "crush" washers from Honda parts if I am going to a Jiffy Lube etc., since Jiffy Lube and others don't have them and attempt to recycle the old washers, which doesn't work well. To make a good fit, Honda apparently uses a washer that intentionally deforms on installation, squishes into a perfect fit. It isn't supposed to be reused, because once it is flattened it is more like an ordinary washer. You can tighten it down enough, a second time, to make it work, but this wears out the threads on the oil pan (yes, I had to have my oil pan threads on my '93 Civic rethreaded for just this reason) so it's most important to make sure your mechanic has, and uses, Honda approved "crush" washers. The only way to do this is to carry them yourself and "mother hen" the Jiffy Lube etc. guy. It's disorganized under the floor and they just like to follow their routines, which are to re-use the old washer.
Please add to this if you have any additional or contradictory information. I would rather use Mobil 1 5-30, but want to preserve my warranty, and apparently Honda is grinding people who don't use 5-20 oil.
Question for anyone out there who may know the answer. The other day my 9 year old son and I were going to a basketball game. While in the traffic into the arena I noticed that the "side airbag off" light kept coming on and then going off. I soon realized the light would come on when my son leaned forward in the passenger seat and would go off when he leaned back. Sure enough, I checked the owners manual and the side air bag is designed to turn itself off if a small person leans forward in such a way that their head would be right where the side airbag would deploy. My only question is - how does this work? I looked around and could not find a sensor that would tell if a child's, or small adult's, head was in a particular location. I don't have a problem - the system appears to work exactly as the manual describes it. Anybody know how it works?
Maybe the airbags measure the amount of deployment of the shoulder harness (normal is retracted, extra deployment is leaning forward against the strap). Try having your son slip out of the shoulder harness and lean forward (while the car is parked! but engine running so everything is activated), then try again with the strap against his body. I bet that's it, otherwise using infrared sensors gets complicated.
"The dealer told me to buy some "crush" washers from Honda parts if I am going to a Jiffy Lube etc., since Jiffy Lube and others don't have them and attempt to recycle the old washers, which doesn't work well."
I worked for Jiffy Lube for 4 years and replaced every Honda crush gasket that I ever encountered. Yes, Jiffy Lube knows about these because they know that crush gaskets are cheaper than oil pans. They change the oil on more Hondas than Honda dealers do. We bought the gaskets from Honda. I know because they came in bulk in plastic bags that had Honda written all over them. Still, it's not a bad idea to have a couple extra in the glove box in case your service center is out of them.
I was going based on what the dealer told me - not that the dealer might be prejudiced. It's good to know I have some other options for oil service. When I took my other car in to Jiffy lube, they seemed pretty careful, even to the point of the supervisor asking to see the removed oil filter, apparently to make sure the underfloor tech wasn't lazing out and not replacing it.
I still think it is a good idea to carry the crush washers, and to ask the lube center and volunteer that you have your own supply if they don't... the temptation to reuse the old one is always there, if a service center (Jiffy or otherwise) runs out or doesn't stock them.
the old filter because it's part of their "safety check". They have a specific proceedure for oil changes that is supposed to be followed. The upper bay tech looks at the old filter to make sure the gasket is still there. If two gaskets end up between the filter and engine, there will be trouble. That's why the proceedure calls for two people to verify that the gasket is on the old filter and not stuck to the mounting plate. At all the stores that I've worked at, if you were caught not replacing a filter, you would be immediately fired.
Thanks for the input. I thought also that it had to do with the seat belt deployment. The next day my wife was riding in the passenger seat - as we were driving I asked her to lean forward a few times. She's taller than my 9 year old - but she's only 5'2" - she couldn't get the light to come on. That still doesn't mean it's not something to do with the seatbelt. Maybe my son was leaning much farther and lower and pulling out more seatbelt? I'm pretty sure there are no sensors (infrared, etc...) I looked all over and I don't see anything - I bet your seat belt theory is correct. It specifically states in the owners manual that it shuts off the side air bag if a small persons head is in the area of the air bag deployment area. Maybe they just figure that the only way to pull out that much seat belt is if a very small person or child leans very far forward. This may not be a very awkward position for a child or very small adult - but for a normal sized adult it would probably be awkward and would not be a position that someone would maintain for very long.
I think Honda's seatbelt setup judges "height" by "weight" - the seat pad weighs you, then if you fall under the weight cut off, the shoulder harness reacts to run out.
You can easily disprove this theory by weighing your son and your wife. If your wife, unlike mine, will let you peak at the scale while she is on it....
I started the car and then reached over and pulled the seat belt way out last night - nothing. There was no one sitting in the seat. Maybe the seat pad must sense a weight between X and Y and the seat belt must be deployed a certain amount for the light to come on. From that the system deduces that it has a small person in the seat and they are either leaning forward or sitting up at the edge of the seat. Then again, maybe leaning forward won't do it. Maybe the person has to be sitting up at the front edge of the seat (that's what my son was doing). Maybe the seat pad sensor is located toward the front of the seat - doesn't necessarily weigh the person - but simply senses that someone is sitting at the front edge of the seat. I don't know. Like I said, the system seems to work perfectly - the engineer in me was just curious as to how it worked. However, not curious enough to take things apart!
Hi all, I've had my 2001 Civic LX sedan since January 2001. It's been great. However, in the last few months, I've noticed that when I accelerate slowly, it sounds like there is water sloshing around. Does this sound right? Other than that, it's a fabulous car. I'm just a little concerned with this water sloshing noise. Please let me know if anybody else has had this problem or if anyone knows why it's doing this. Thanks!
One of the reasons I replaced my '99 Neon with a 2003 Civic was the NHTSA safety crash ratings (quadruple 5 star n the coupe with side air bags!) and the Insurance Institute "Good" and "Best Pick" ratings for offset crashes. After reading the excellent Canadian Honda websites noted in post # 2323 (thanks!) I can see that these ratings didn't happen by accident. It looks like a lot of thought went into Honda design. I didn't realize before how potentially dangerous side air bags are, compared to front, due to their more rapid inflation. Now I can understand some stuff I thought was goofy, like Chevy Impala only has a DRIVER's side air bag - for safety reasons (I thought they were just being cheap).
Also, I can't believe such a sophisticated side airbag system adds only $250 to the sticker.
BTW, the side air bags bump the coupe up to 5 stars on the side impact tests for both front and back seat passengers; without the side airbags, front seat drops to 3 star, rear to 4 star. Curiously enough, its 4 start side impact front and back, with or WITHOUT side airbags on the 4 door Civic...go figure.
The reason the Impala only has a side bag on the driver's side is because GM is too lazy to spend the money in development, testing, and technology (like Honda and several other makers have) to make an air bag for the passenger's side that won't hurt/injure/kill smaller people.
Thanks for the links to the info on the side airbag and how it works. Sensors in the seatback - pretty cool. I can testify that they do work. If my 9 year old is seated in the front passenger seat, and he leans forward the side airbag will turn off (at least the light on the dashboard comes on). My wife, sitting in the same seat, couldn't make the airbag turn off - she must be tall enough that the system wouldn't consider her head would be in the deployment zone. Thanks again!
Thanks to pocket racers and the car thieves that help find them parts (engines?), the insurance premium on the LX Coupe is $700 per year more than on the Neon I got rid of - $1500 per year total via AAA Northern California.
My agent told me the premiums on the Accord are actually lower....
You may need to shop around for your insurance. For many insurance companies (21st Century, AAA, etc.), Civic does carry a very expensive insurance. The insurance premium is actually higher than that for cars 2-3X more expensive (ES300, RX300, etc.). That's the reason I buy insurance from Great America now.
Assuming you have a clean record, try GEICO. Use one of the online insurance sites to get some other quotes. CSAA is NEVER the low bidder on car insurance - we've been CSAA members for 40 years, but never used their insurance service - always more expensive than the competition.
Civics are one of the most stolen cars in the US, so that doesn't help insurance rates either. They are very easily broken into, and the cars are very popular as well, so that's what makes the rates higher. You should shop around for insurance though, to get the best price and service, when you get a new car.
For the most part, no one steals them. Their parts get stolen. My friend's Civic - someone stole the Honda logos. Another friend: someone else's Civic had a flat tire, they went over to my friend's Civic, jacked the car up and swapped tires (along with hubcaps). That's why old Camrys and Accords are consistently on the top of most stolen cars lists: they're durable, so they're going to need replacement parts. Instead of paying what Honda wants them to pay for the replacement parts, they can go to the black market and get the same (stolen) parts for less.
Dealer wanted $80 for new Honda logos, BTW. I was almost tempted to tell her to go pluck them off someone else's Civic.
Every time I think about the Corolla, I get mad at Toyota. They go and design a great small car, and they couldn't design it so that normal-sized people (like me) fit into the driver's seat comfortably. What were they thinking? Other companies, such as Honda, Hyundai, and Mazda, have figured out how to make driver's seats that accomodate a wide range of sizes--why not Toyota?
I am 6'3 and a good 270lbs. I drove a Corolla LE and a Civic LX at this Saturn ION test drive thing I went to about 2 months ago. I felt like I was squeezed into both cars actually. I don't know how larger people can fit in either car. Both cars' driver's seats felt smaller to me than my past 01 Protege's did.
vocus - I'm glad I'm not the only one. When I bought the RAV4, I was given a Corolla as a loaner because the RAV4 needed to get the alarm system installed. Parked it next to my Civic and externally, it dwarfed the Civic. But inside, it didn't feel that much bigger.
My poor brother (who is over 6')can barely fit in my Civic let alone be able to move around at all to drive it. He actually bought a Sentra today although if the Civic was a little larger he would be driving that tonight instead. I am (5'6")and quite comfortable in it. BUT the Corolla was horrible for me. My knees hit the steering wheel and I didn't like how tall and narrow the car seemed to be. I'll take the Civic anytime!
Hmm...I don't know how he's going to be any more comfortable in a Sentra if he wasn't comfortable in the Civic.
He should've looked at the Mazda6...bigger than the compact sedans, but not as big as the midsizers (assuming that money is no object - not that the 6 is cheap, though).
He rented a Sentra last weekend for a trip and was comfortable driving it. I have not seen his Sentra yet but it must have been adequate. Unfortunately $$ were a factor in his decision.
I would have loved to see him get a Civic but he just couldn't move in it.
Backy: They shield the passenger's head during a high speed side impact. If you check out the head acceleration and impact on the IIHS website, it is quite high.
diploid: Head airbag just a pillow? Tell that to my best friend's finacee who died in a side impact due to brain hemoraage. Her head impacted the b-pillar and cracked her skull in two spots and compressed part of her brain. She lived in agony for another hour until rescue crews where able to extract her from the car, then she died. Head airbags have been proven to save lives.
Sorry to hear about your best friend's fiancee. Yes, airbags do save lives. But if you have someone's hood sitting on your lap, do you think the outcome would've been any better with or without an airbag? At that point in the accident, IMO it's pretty much amoral whether an airbag is present or not. It's those kinds of extreme accidents that I'm talking about when I equate airbags to pillows. The one your friend's fiancee was in was obviously not that extreme, otherwise I think she would've suffered other bodily injuries beside the head trauma.
"But safety experts acknowledge that no airbag design — head curtains, tubes or chest bags — offers adequate protection all the time. Transport Canada, the government agency that regulates highway safety in Canada, has conducted extensive tests on side-impact airbags and has received mixed results.
Even with highly touted curtains and tubes, dummies designed to replicate the female anatomy sometimes slid under or the airbag or hit the A-pillar in front of the bag during crash tests. The dummies’ heads sometimes were struck by the intruding vehicles or by vehicle pillars, said Suzanne Tylko, a top safety engineer at Transport Canada.
If all vehicles had side-impact airbags to protect the head, NHTSA estimates that 600 lives a year would be saved. That’s a significant number — but still only a small percentage of the 10,000 lives lost in side-impact crashes."
I have decided not to immediately replace the stock tires that came with my 2003 Civic LX Coupe. They are gripping quite well in curves and in the rain. (Actually, I am less pleased with the amount of brake pedal required to activate the brakes.)
When they get worn, I will either upgrade to stock size Michelin X-1, which got terrific on-line customer comment at the TireRack.com, or I'll upgrade to 15 inch wheels with lower sidewall height (I think the Series 70 tires on the stock Civic are a little dated, but not horrible.)
I also have an '03 Civic (EX) and want to replace the factory tires w/ Michellin X-Ones in the future. I had the X-Ones on a previous car and loved them! They really gripped the road. The tires that came w/ my Civic are fine for now but I'm hoping when I replace them later I will loose some of the bounciness with the rear end of the car.
All in all love my Civic and haven't had any brake problems although just in the break in period now. I am "carefully" driving the car for now.
Do you experience any static elec. problems w/ your Civic? (I know this is normal in winter driving w/ heat on, etc. just seems like I get more w/ my Civic than other cars I've had)
Yeah, the static in the Civic is very bad, at least in Chicago weather.
My son bought static guard etc. and EVERYTIME he still would get shocked when he scooted across the cloth seats to get out of the car.
As a result, he replaced the cloth seats with leather and hasn't had one problem in the last 11 months.
Worthwhile addition: YES Worth $1,180...depends, for him yes, but at his age I might have just stuck it out and saved up my money for other things. Yet, for him it was important, so to each his own
BUT enough about the leather tangent, yes the Civic does have a static problem, which may be caused, more or less by the clingy cloth seats.
All cars I've owned with cloth interiors have had this problem to some degree. It has a lot to do with the nap of the cloth and also the rolling resistance of the tires, I've found. My Elantra gives me a pretty good jolt, especially in the winter. My Grand Caravan does too, but to a little lesser degree. I can mitigate it by making sure that my body is touching metal (e.g., my leg is touching the rocker panel) as I get out of the car. If I can't do that (e.g. rocker panel is covered with snert), I immediately touch my key to something metal before I touch anything with my hand--that takes care of most of the charge. At least I can tell people that I get a charge out of my car!
Was wondering how much a used car dealer usually gets on a car sell. Never bought a used one before and dont know how much is a good profit for those guys.
Also, the new SIs are going for 15.5k-16k. Is destination included with that price?
Comments
Yes I varied my speed, but most new cars come with cross-hatching on the cylinder walls to seat the rings properly, which are the major break-in issue. The other issue is "hot spots" due to oil starvation at high revs on "high" metal to metal areas, or due to high pressure of metal to metal at any rpm due to overloading (most usually early upshifts and heavy throttle). There isn't a lot of space for oil to squeeze into, in some areas of a new engine, that's what break-in is mostly about. If the ambient temperature is too hot (or the engine isn't designed for uniform temperature throughout the engine block, via coolant and oil flow channels), the oil can break down in spots where the metal is too tight, or if the metal is too tight oil can't flow to those spots too well at higher rpms. So I was taught to keep at 3/4 throttle, not to "lug" the engine (heavy throttle at low rpms), and to watch the ambient temperature and load factors.
Up the grapevine, a steep hill north of LA, I downshifted to 4th to keep the engine from lugging, and drove at a moderate speed to keep heat load down. Along the flat stretch, driving down on a cool evening, I let the car run from 70 to 85, which is a max rpm of 3300, not too high, with hardly any throttle on this gas sipper. All starts were at half throttle with up shifts below 3,000. I was a good boy.
I was a little worried about the rings seating, since conventional wisdom says ring seating works best with occasional almost-full throttle acceleration - that jams the rings against the cylinder walls to seat. I figure my drive to LA was actually too "easy" to seat the rings, but on the other hand it was so "easy" that there is probably still plenty of time to seat them, while in the meantime some of the "high" spots in the engine should have settled down.
Yeah, I remember my VW GTi dealer ('83) telling me to drive as fast and as hard as I wanted during break-in, but please don't use the cruise control. On this new Civic, I used the cruise only to rest my foot from time to time....
The other Neon was a 2001 California only "S" model which came relatively stripped down (no power anything), but with a nice engine and 5 speed. The stock engine was quicker than the 1999, until I opened up the 1999 with the Magnaflow. I was never happy with the handling on the 2001, however, it was sloppy compared to the 1999 or the Civic. I tried upgrading the sway bars to the R/T level, but could only do this on the front because the Daimler-Chrysler people cheapened the second generation Neons by leaving out the rear sway bar mounting brackets on the rear struts (first gen had them, so you could upgrade).
Any other questions about my swap/upgrade, let me know. So far so good on the Civic. It is much better than the 88 CRX and 93 CX hatchback that I had. That's no surprise, right?
Any recommendations on oils? My dealer uses Quaker State, and Quaker State says their 5-20 oil satisfies the Ford WSS-M2C153-H standard, which requires double the test hours of normal "SL" "GF3" quality oil. In other words, 5-20 oil that satisfies Ford's spec beats ordinary 5-20 oil. Castrol GTX, Motorcraft, and Pennzoil are all labelled as passing this test.
There is also supposed to be a Honda spec, but it is "secret" in the sense that there isn't the amount of published information on it like the Ford spec. The label on the Honda brand of oil (made by Exxon-Mobil) says it is the best because it satisfies Honda's spec, but doesn't reference the spec.
It could be that when the dust settled on the SL/GF3 question (oil companies and car manufacturers fought over the spec, the oil companies to keep base stock prices down, the car companies to protect the cars on lease better), Honda was ok with the SL/GF3 spec. Or it could be there is a spec overlay on SL/GF3, like with Ford. About the only thing I could find on this issue was in the owners manual, which doesn't insist on much in the way of scheduled maintenance, but does urge the use of Honda brand motor oil. I can't believe Honda is just interested in making a few bucks off its own branded oil. I can't get any information on this issue from Exxon-Mobil. Has anyone else run into this issue? And what kind of oil are you using?
Since Quaker State claims they satisfy SL/GF3/Ford spec, I will probably just use it and stay with 3,000 mile change intervals to make sure the oil is in tip top, and not worn out, condition.
The Honda website also says "don't change the oil before the recommended interval" because it is a special break in oil, and required for break in. The recommended oil change interval is 10,000 miles, except severe service is 5,000 miles. Severe service is nothing but trips less than 5 miles, and I drive mostly 20-30 miles, but there is no way I am going to trust the environmentally friendly people at Honda on this issue. Unless you guys have good arguments otherwise, I think I will change oil at 3,000, which is what the dealer recommended anyway (of course they make a few extra bucks, too).
However, last night I looked at tirerack.com and the FR 690's are badly dissed for having terrible wet weather performance by customer-reviewers - something like 3.5 on a scale of 10, vs. more typical tire scores in the 7-8 range for wet weather performance. One reviewer even said these tires were so bad, his dealer was willing to swap them out for stock Dunlops.
Any thoughts or comments? Are the reviewers wrong, is the tire designed for Honda better than generic FR690's, has the tire changed? Should I start thinking about changing tires?
Just wondering if you have had any of these problems? Do you recommend purchasing one assembled in Japan (vin# starts w/ "J")? How long have your owned your Civic?
Thanks and have fun w/ your new car..
Thought I would share how well my little 99 Civic held up in a pretty brutal collision. I was on the freeway in the far right lane. A woman lost control of her car in the far left lane. I had zero time to react when I noticed her car flying into my lane sideways. I hit her at 55 MPH, spun around and hit the concrete barrier hard enough to break the concrete in two. It was very frightening. However, I was able to get out of the car with a bruise on my knee and stiff back and neck but no major injuries. I thought for sure my entire front end would be gone but it held up very well. The car is not salvagable but it did its' job.
Of course, the loan was almost paid in full. Now we start over unless we get another used 99. My husband has the 02 Civic and is very happy with it. After much research, I think we'll stick with Honda!
Take care all and WEAR THOSE SEATBELTS.
Cindy
As for the harsh rear suspension, it was smooth on the way home. I think my early morning jolts came because the bumpy part of my ride is near home, not near work, and the strut fluids were cold. On the same road coming home, after a drive which warmed up the strut fluids, the car was supple. So maybe they retuned the suspension. I heard Honda definitely modified the Civic suspension from 2001 to 2002 in response to complaints. Having owned both the Neon old, Neon 2d gen, and Civic, I would give the nod to the Civic, except on price.
First, Honda is apparently now revising its spec to be 0-20 instead of 5-20. They will release the spec next year.
Ford actually has a spec overlay on 5-20 oil, which is WSS-M2C153-H. The oil companies (there was a convention recently) are unhappy that, first, the manufacturers beat them over the head to make a major upgrade across the line from SG/GF2 quality oils to SL/GF3 oils, and now, second, Ford (and Honda) require 5-20 oil (for which there is a small market compared to 5-30 and 10-40) and, on top of that, Ford wants "super SL" oil with their spec and Honda wants "something different from SL, but nobody knows what it is," with their spec. The oil companies just came out of a period of Balkanization of standards with ACEA, Japanese valve wear train standards, and other fine print that made it onto the premium grade oil bottles, and now Ford and Honda are sidestepping the API and GF counsel dictates again....
This oil tech rep also let me know that Ford is the only company that currently offers a synthetic blend of 5-20, which she felt is far superior to straight dino oil if you "race." On questioning, she considered occasionally hitting 100 on a Nevada road, for example, to be "racing" where the oil film on a conventional oil could break down. She recommended using full synthetic under those circumstances. She also considered pulling any type of trailer to be "racing" in terms of load and wear.
Finally, I found out that both Pennzoil and Quaker State satisfy the stricter Ford spec (Quaker State is upgrading their product labels and spec sheet, Pennzoil is already updated), but only Honda brand oil satisfies the "secret" Honda spec since either Honda has been unwilling to share it with others, or only Honda's private label manufacturer (Exxon-Mobil) has been willing to go the extra expense and testing to make sure Honda brand oil satisfies Honda's desired spec. Personally, I think its more of the latter than the former.
I called Exxon-Mobil and they told me Mobil 1 will be out in 0-20 in March of 2003. It will satisfy both the Honda and Ford spec overlays. And its full synthetic.
The gist of this is that Jiffy lube is ok (they use Pennzoil which satisfies the Ford spec), Castrol is OK (Ford spec), and Honda oil may be best for Hondas - it satisfies Honda's spec, which may be looser, stricter, or sideways compared to Ford's spec. Of course, I haven't found a Honda dealer yet that actually uses Honda oil as their routine oil change oil, - the dealers usually have special "deals" with companies like Quaker State, Pennzoil, and Chevron to use their lubes across the board. Honda oil is just a niche player, and some customers think Honda is just trying to make a couple of extra bucks anyway, instead of trying to protect the motors.
Motorcraft synthetic blend 5-20 is recommended by the tech (her company apparently private label manufactures this oil for Ford, even though her company doesn't sell a blend themselves yet due to the small market demand) for high speed or redline driving, until full synthetic is available. She said that frequent oil changes will make up for other issues that can vary with Honda oil, such as long term fuel efficiency, friction reducers etc. In other words, she thougth Motorcraft Synthetic blend, with 3,000 mile changes, is better than Honda label oil, which is straight dino oil, at 5,000 or 10,000 intervals. She also thought the 10k intervals Honda is recommending are nuts(Ford, by the way, is on a 5K normal, 3K severe cycle) and at a MAXIMUM 5,000 mile intervals should be used, and never 10k intervals regardless of oil brand or type. Having seen the deterioration graphs on motor oil over its usual life span, I tend to agree with her, although oil changes this frequently are a pain in the butt. Since I am a fast and aggressive driver, I'll probably do 3k changes, which will make my dealer happy (they recommend 3k oil changes, damn the owner's manual).
The dealer told me to buy some "crush" washers from Honda parts if I am going to a Jiffy Lube etc., since Jiffy Lube and others don't have them and attempt to recycle the old washers, which doesn't work well. To make a good fit, Honda apparently uses a washer that intentionally deforms on installation, squishes into a perfect fit. It isn't supposed to be reused, because once it is flattened it is more like an ordinary washer. You can tighten it down enough, a second time, to make it work, but this wears out the threads on the oil pan (yes, I had to have my oil pan threads on my '93 Civic rethreaded for just this reason) so it's most important to make sure your mechanic has, and uses, Honda approved "crush" washers. The only way to do this is to carry them yourself and "mother hen" the Jiffy Lube etc. guy. It's disorganized under the floor and they just like to follow their routines, which are to re-use the old washer.
Please add to this if you have any additional or contradictory information. I would rather use Mobil 1 5-30, but want to preserve my warranty, and apparently Honda is grinding people who don't use 5-20 oil.
I worked for Jiffy Lube for 4 years and replaced every Honda crush gasket that I ever encountered. Yes, Jiffy Lube knows about these because they know that crush gaskets are cheaper than oil pans. They change the oil on more Hondas than Honda dealers do. We bought the gaskets from Honda. I know because they came in bulk in plastic bags that had Honda written all over them. Still, it's not a bad idea to have a couple extra in the glove box in case your service center is out of them.
I still think it is a good idea to carry the crush washers, and to ask the lube center and volunteer that you have your own supply if they don't... the temptation to reuse the old one is always there, if a service center (Jiffy or otherwise) runs out or doesn't stock them.
You can easily disprove this theory by weighing your son and your wife. If your wife, unlike mine, will let you peak at the scale while she is on it....
http://www.honda.ca/AcuraEng/Models/TL/BenefitDetails.htm?section=Safety
(scroll to bottom, first point under 'The i-side Airbag System')
Or:
http://www.honda.ca/HondaEng/Models/CR-V/BenefitDetails.htm?section=Safety#pagetop
(under Side Airbags, for the CR-V)
Or:
http://www.hondafirst.com/safety.htm
Good old Google!
I've had my 2001 Civic LX sedan since January 2001. It's been great. However, in the last few months, I've noticed that when I accelerate slowly, it sounds like there is water sloshing around. Does this sound right? Other than that, it's a fabulous car. I'm just a little concerned with this water sloshing noise. Please let me know if anybody else has had this problem or if anyone knows why it's doing this. Thanks!
Also, I can't believe such a sophisticated side airbag system adds only $250 to the sticker.
BTW, the side air bags bump the coupe up to 5 stars on the side impact tests for both front and back seat passengers; without the side airbags, front seat drops to 3 star, rear to 4 star. Curiously enough, its 4 start side impact front and back, with or WITHOUT side airbags on the 4 door Civic...go figure.
My agent told me the premiums on the Accord are actually lower....
Dealer wanted $80 for new Honda logos, BTW. I was almost tempted to tell her to go pluck them off someone else's Civic.
Thanks!
backy-remember our little discussion regarding NHTSA vs. IIHS? That wretched Corolla took top honors in the latest IIHS test. ugh.
He should've looked at the Mazda6...bigger than the compact sedans, but not as big as the midsizers (assuming that money is no object - not that the 6 is cheap, though).
I would have loved to see him get a Civic but he just couldn't move in it.
They shield the passenger's head during a high speed side impact. If you check out the head acceleration and impact on the IIHS website, it is quite high.
diploid:
Head airbag just a pillow? Tell that to my best friend's finacee who died in a side impact due to brain hemoraage. Her head impacted the b-pillar and cracked her skull in two spots and compressed part of her brain. She lived in agony for another hour until rescue crews where able to extract her from the car, then she died. Head airbags have been proven to save lives.
Yes, airbags do save lives. But if you have someone's hood sitting on your lap, do you think the outcome would've been any better with or without an airbag? At that point in the accident, IMO it's pretty much amoral whether an airbag is present or not. It's those kinds of extreme accidents that I'm talking about when I equate airbags to pillows. The one your friend's fiancee was in was obviously not that extreme, otherwise I think she would've suffered other bodily injuries beside the head trauma.
"But safety experts acknowledge that no airbag design — head curtains, tubes or chest bags — offers adequate protection all the time. Transport Canada, the government agency that regulates highway safety in Canada, has conducted extensive tests on side-impact airbags and has received mixed results.
Even with highly touted curtains and tubes, dummies designed to replicate the female anatomy sometimes slid under or the airbag or hit the A-pillar in front of the bag during crash tests. The dummies’ heads sometimes were struck by the intruding vehicles or by vehicle pillars, said Suzanne Tylko, a top safety engineer at Transport Canada.
If all vehicles had side-impact airbags to protect the head, NHTSA estimates that 600 lives a year would be saved. That’s a significant number — but still only a small percentage of the 10,000 lives lost in side-impact crashes."
Very informative (and long) read.
When they get worn, I will either upgrade to stock size Michelin X-1, which got terrific on-line customer comment at the TireRack.com, or I'll upgrade to 15 inch wheels with lower sidewall height (I think the Series 70 tires on the stock Civic are a little dated, but not horrible.)
All in all love my Civic and haven't had any brake problems although just in the break in period now. I am "carefully" driving the car for now.
Do you experience any static elec. problems w/ your Civic? (I know this is normal in winter driving w/ heat on, etc. just seems like I get more w/ my Civic than other cars I've had)
My son bought static guard etc. and EVERYTIME he still would get shocked when he scooted across the cloth seats to get out of the car.
As a result, he replaced the cloth seats with leather and hasn't had one problem in the last 11 months.
Worthwhile addition: YES
Worth $1,180...depends, for him yes, but at his age I might have just stuck it out and saved up my money for other things. Yet, for him it was important, so to each his own
BUT enough about the leather tangent, yes the Civic does have a static problem, which may be caused, more or less by the clingy cloth seats.
Also, the new SIs are going for 15.5k-16k. Is destination included with that price?
Thanks.