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Carrie ~ 2002 Eternal Blue Pearl Honda Civic EX Sedan (12,000 miles a running)
Dunlops:
Better wet weather traction
Better grip around corners
Quieter than the Firestones
Firestones:
Longer tread wear
These tires aren't even in the same category. FR690's are All-Season radials and the SP Sport A2's are High Performance All-Season tires. I am a little more aggressive in driving and therefore I favor the Dunlops.
I personally don't fit in the Civic's seats. The side bolsters on the buckets are not spread wide enough to feel comfortable, they feel confining and painful to me.
When it's time to replace the FR690's, I will probably move to 15" wheels at Tire Rack so I have more tire choices - Sport A2's, Bridgestone 950's etc. I will probably go with a set of steel wheels, which they usually sell with their snow tires, because most steel wheels weigh less than more cast aluminum wheels, oddly enough (confirmed by tire rack, and also in the wheel ads of some forged aluminum wheel makers).
As I said earlier, I haven't had any problems with the FR690's that come stock on the current year Civics in dry or wet conditions(and I emphasize current year, in case Honda hammered Firestone to make a better product in the last year or two) so I won't change right away.
Also, does $199/mo. for 48 mos., no security deposit, taxes, or down payment seem like a good deal for a Civic 2003 LX? Seems like it to me.
Thanks,
Don
Re $199/month for a Civic LX - personally, I wouldn't pay almost $10,000 to lease a $14,000 car over four years. Especially when a dealer in my area is offering EX automatic sedans for lease for $139/mo. plus about $2400 total up front--the rough equivalent of about $189/month total. But maybe in your area, $199/month for a LX represents a good deal. Have you run the numbers to compare lease vs. purchase (using Honda's 1.9% financing)?
having said that, i think the civic is one of the most refined "econoboxes" in the history of economy cars. the '03 has more insulation, so the noise isnt as pronounced as the '01-'02. also, the materials are of much higher quality than last year. i absolutely love the backlit dash display this year.
Wow, you've really bought into the whole Honda is supreme propaganda. I don't argue that it has been a good car, but the last iteration of the Civic has been poorly received by many, especially auto writers who have wondered why Honda took a perfectly good 6th gen Civic and created a 7th gen that is a step back in ALMOST every catagory including reliability.
Oh, the '03 backlit display seems cool at first, but then you realize how the markings for 30, 50, 70mph are non-existant and then it begins to annoy you. I'll stick with the more legible 01,02 displays.
Are you a do-it-yourselfer? Keep your receipt on the oil and filter in case there are ever warranty issues.
I have found this to be the case also while visiting a local honda dealer near myself.. the treatment I received was so horrid that I was turned off to honda for quite some time and leased my second Saturn.
I have found the trick is when you walk into a honda dealer, act like you are going to buy the vehicle with in the hour, but want to drive it first.. Than, just say, "I'll get back to you"
I realize that the experience one has with a dealer(s) or salesperson(s) should be separated from the brand itself. For honda cannot be held responsible for rude, inconsiderate, and deceptive practices occurring at its dealers.These same practices can affect any brand, not simply honda.
It makes sense however that as a customer who cross shops, if dealer A is rude and unprofessional, and dealer B which happens to sell a different brand treats the customer like a human being, the customer would opt for dealer b, leaving dealer A losing a sale.
I think Honda would own the world if the marketing approach were more like Saturn's and they added a cheapo 2 seater to the line - something the size of a Miata or smaller and frill free. LOL, not even AC, PB, or PS. Ah, my daydreaming.
FWIW, shopping the net worked for me in cutting hooey during the initial part of getting my '02 Si. The Honda site has a great dealer locator, and most dealers have good sites with an inventory search. Less than half of the dealers I contacted dealt straight with my quote request made through their site, but that was enough since I could contact beaucoup. NO squabble or haggle, LOL, since I blew off the squabblers and hagglers. Having struck a final deal on the phone, there was some flim flam once I went in; but it was dealable with.
The place I disagree is that Honda could fix this. All it would take is some undercover dealer visits along with the current buyer satisfaction surveys and then making allocation of hot cars contingent upon good customer satisfaction. Think being bottom on the list to get the S2000 when it was new or the Odyssey van wouldn't turn this around quick?
rivertown: Honda sends every customer who buys a car a survey and if their results are low enough Honda can strip their license to sell their product. Same applies to sales people, if they receive low scores they have to go through additional training, performance management, etc. I will guarantee you that the people with bad attitudes do not stay at any dealer for any significant length of time before moving on to the next.
On the recent survey for the Accord we bought they asked us if we had shopped at any other dealers and asked for the reasons we did not buy from them. I haven't seen this before so maybe they are starting to seek this feedback out.
Yes, this is true but change often takes longer than it should.. I wish that Honda's had ding/rust resistent polymer panels, for that would be the only vehicle I would ever buy.
Honda makes excellent vehicles imo, I can't wait until special edition Saturn VUE's are equipted with the honda V6 for it will have an engine and body that will last for 15 years.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-03-11-cr-picks_x.htm
In Consumer Reports newest quality rankings, Hyundai is now tied for SECOND place with Honda. Toyota continues to hold the top spot by a measly 1 less problem per 100 cars. Now, how many here are going to be shocked and/or still try to refute Hyundai's newfound quality status?
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Here are my opinions and a few facts:
I've been in an 02 Elantra and the Civic has a better interior as far as materials and design.
The Civic has a more refined engine.
The Civic is a safer car.
The Civic has better resale value no matter how you look at it.
More refined engine: Elantra is DOHC (Civic is SOHC), has more hp and torque (is also larger), and is quieter at cruise than the Civic. I agree that the Civic's VVT technology is more advanced than what the '03 Elantra has. The '04 Elantra will have a VVT engine with reportedly more power and better fuel economy. It will be interesting to see how they compare engine-wise then.
Safer: I assume the fact you are referring to is the IIHS frontal offset crash test ratings, since the NHTSA crash tests on the 4-doors are comparable. For actual injury losses, 1999-2001 models (latest data available), both Civic and Elantra were worse than average for their category, with Civic a little better. This was based mostly on the previous-generation cars however. Elantra does offer standard side air bags and optional ABS on all models; side bags are optional on Civic and ABS is not available on all models.
Resale: Looking at resale percentages, I agree that Civic's resale value is higher now than Elantra's. But the difference is not as great as you might think. For example, Civic EX 4-door holds 59% of value after 2 years, and Elantra GT holds 55-57% (per ALG). Looking at resale value in dollars, applied to real-world purchase prices, there is little difference. I can go through the math if you would like, or maybe we can take this to the Civic vs. Elantra forum so we can get back to talking about Civics instead of Elantras.
The DX Civic is also their choice for best value under $24,000.
In the past, Civic always ruled. Only Accent and extremely heavily discounted (e.g. $5-5.5k off MSRP) Cavalier would be able to match Civic in term of 3-year ownership cost. Elantra, even with its low purchase price, couldn’t come close due to its awful resale and gas mileage.
However, thing really changes this year. Civic was beat by both Elantra and Corolla. This is mainly due to the fact that Civic price went up about $700-800 this year while its resale value went down a bit. Elantra, on the other hand, is carrying a lower sale price this year.
With CR changing its tone against Hyundai, Elantra may have a higher resale value in the future. So, Honda must do something if it wants Civic to regain the title of king of value.
And I don't pay much attention to what the various "guides" say about resale value. I just know from a lot of experience that used Huyndais are near impossible to sell. Few people want them and they bring well below the book values.
I suppose this could change in the future.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
cost based on your usage and needs -- an wants.
The cost of ownership looking at historical market value for a used car is like buying a mutual fund or stock based on past performance.
What really should matter is what is the car sold today going to be worth 3 or 5 years from now, based on the quality of today's car or the problems they appear to have now. It's not what yesterday's model with good quality or poor quality was worth.
If a current model seems quality now, has longer warranty time frames, and you like the feel, that's what counts. If the car makes me feel good when I drive it and if it makes me happy when I wash it and wax it, it's worth an extra amount per year. If its mileage is a little lower in my type of driving, it's worth an extra cost in fuel to own it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Pure opinion.
"But based on driver comfort, the Elantra is far superior to the Civic"
Again, pure opinion.
I'm not going to start comparing every little aspect of the 2 cars. Me? I'd buy the Civic. Having been in an accident in an 02 SI I KNOW they are safe and don't have to rely on crash tests. From my past experience with Hondas, I am very comfortable with the brand and their reputation. Hyundai is more iffy.
You all can discuss the features, the reliabilty, future resale value, prices, warranties, and so on, but you forgot one major deciding factor which is totally subjective: APPEARANCE!
It doesn't matter how well a car performs, how comfortable it is, how cheap it is, if it doesn't look attractive to the potential buyer, people aren't going to buy it.
Granted, neither the Civic or the Elantra are head-turners, IMO (which is subjective)(I don't want to flame Hyundai people) the Civic just looks better than the Elantra.
Civic looks like a chick's car too IMO.