Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

mpgman · April 2003

Can anyone give me some mpg figures for the above? CR claims 29 overall. Accurate? I know it varies by how you drive but a few posts in response would be great. Thanks.

dunworth · April 2003

trigred: So you had a 1976 CVCC. I loved those cars - but they did not last long in our winters. Mechanically bulletproof but the bodies disintegrated prematurely. Your new one should give you many years of enjoyment.

Up here in Canada (I am in Toronto - comparable to Michigan, NY state Ohio etc)) they suggest 8,000 km/5000 miles between oil changes and do not suggest changing the first one before that interval due to the special break in oil. I have not heard of the 10,000 mile one - perhaps it is different in the part of the US where you live.

dave210: The mileage you are getting on your auto matches my experience on the 5speed I have. The autos lose 1 mpg as rated up here. I have found highway milage to drop off quite a lot by driving at 120 (75 mpg) km/h versus around 100-100 km/hr (60 mph. The difference is 4-5 mpg!

From post # 2617, my average mileage is : 27-33 Combined (US gallon) with over 60% city. Best on highway is 39.

rivertown · April 2003

"Normal" service sched is 10K, and "Severe" service sched is 5K.
I use the "severe" sched - lots of short hop and enthusiastic driving coupled with intent to keep the car a long time.

trigred · April 2003

re my 76CVCC-my mom looked out the window first time it came home and wanted to know where the rest of the car was. That little orange Honda was fun to drive although I really didn't have that much luck with it. Got a speeding ticket on NY State thruway. Trooper said "I didn't think these things could go that fast". I should have said "they don't". O well-that was many cars and miles ago. Happy motoring.

gbriank · April 2003

Trigred/Dunworth: Oil changes should be done at the ten thousand mile mark in "normal" condition areas. In "Severe" conditions, which I believe Honda characterizes that running in temps above 110 degrees or below 20 degrees(Farenheit), stop and go traffic for more than 10 miles, and high dirt/dust areas, you should change your oil every five thousand miles. Seeing as I live in Dallas, i'm following the "severe" conditions maintenance cycle.

Now one thing I am skeptical about, rotating tires every ten thousand miles. I've always done it every five to six thousand miles...

FUEL ECONOMY is UP. Took a trip this past weekend and cleared 39 mpg at 75 MPH. Not bad! One thing I noticed while driving my dad's Civic, his car settles in around 3200 rpms @ 75 MPH and mine settles in around 3700 rpms @ 75 MPH. I would have thought Honda would want the car to have lower rpms in fifth gear?

jjpcat · April 2003

I don't know why one need to rotate the tires so often. I check the tires on my Civic at least once per month. There has never been any un-balanced feeling when I drive and the treadwear is even on light and right. I estimate they would last for 60-70k miles. So I rotated them at 34k miles (the first rotation, and hopefully the last on this set of tires). I did so only because I would like to even out their lifespan.

gbriank · April 2003

$2100.... Yeouch! The insurance rep. was kind enough to leave my ticket open ended just in case more $$$ was needed. Local repair shop is gonna attempt paintless dent repair first (retain original body panels and paint job). If that doesn't work.....sniffle...sniffle....replace body panels... :-( There were no appointments open for over three weeks, so all of the fun begins next month.

Any positive news in Honda land?

rivertown · April 2003

GBrianK - yeeouch is right. I'm glad you're getting good service out of your ins co; I guess that's the upside. How long will the body shop keep it, do you think?

jjpcat - Read on another thread that FW drive cars really do need the rotations. Something about rear suspension harmonics causing cupping. Given the very reasonable seeming maintenance sched on other issues, I'd go with the sched in the manual.

vocus · April 2003

There goes your resale value. Especially for a brand new car with body work. Yeouch is right...

imidazol97 · April 2003

Which was the thread with the discussion about rear wheels doing the damage to the tires on FWD cars. I'd like to read that discussion.
That's what I thought about my '93 tires.

rivertown · April 2003

It was on Maintenance & Repair / Periodic Maintenance, post #518.

Ain't Edmund's great!

micweb · April 2003

If they can do the repair work without body putty, sanding, and repainting, I think you will be fine. I had similar work done on my car once and it looked like new. I doubt such work would impair the value of the car. It is to be preferred over repainting since the factory paint shops are so much better than the body repair shops....

jbollt · April 2003

I had a car damaged by hail ...thought it was totaled, paintless repair to every last dent, can NOT tell it was ever dented. Amazing!

micweb · April 2003

The heading says it all. I am still dubious about 5-20. Anybody think the new Castrol syntec blend in 5-20 weight is incrementally better?

Anybody just ignoring Honda and running 5-30 or 10-30 (or heavier) oils in their cars?

From what I have heard, there are no tolerance etc. changes in the current Hondas, and Honda even claims the new oil is backward compatible with earlier generation Hondas.

gbriank · April 2003

rivertown: Thinking maybe a week, but I can't be sure. As for tire rotation, I been really strict on getting that done every five to six thousand miles. I'd rather pay a little more for the rotations than have to replace my tires early.

vocus: Thanks for the vote of confidence... :-)

micweb: Sure hope you're right! If this had happened to a three or four year old car, I wouldn't get it fixed. BUT, the car is eight weeks old!

trigred · April 2003

Have had my 03Civic LX with auto for 3 weeks now. I'm no longer opening the trunk by mistake instead of the fuel filler door. Spend weekend away with family. Got little over 39mpg on highway which is close to the 38 it is rated. This impressed me because the 4 of us weigh about 850lbs. Don't know how they can give you both economy and adequate power but they have. Question--as I put more miles on should my mpg's suffer or will things stay as is? Would appreciate knowing what your experience has been.

micweb · April 2003

Pretty consistent commuter gas mileage of 37 mpg with a stick on a 2003 Civic. Not babying it, but not racing either. It's pretty neat seeing the trip odomoter go past 420 miles before the low fuel light comes on - and then only putting 11.6 gallons in or so.

gbriank · April 2003

Fuel economy should steadily get better over the life of the car. The components are just starting the break-in.

I am entering my 9th week of ownership and am clearing about 4 mpg better than five weeks ago (keeping a detailed log).

dunworth · April 2003

I did a long trip 550 km/ 344 miles this weekend in very mild weather about 21C/ 70F and got 48 miles to the imperial gallon or 40 miles to the US gallon. In Canada this is 1 mpg higher than the highway rating. I was travelling in my 115 hp 2003 Civic 5 speed at a steady 110 kph/70 mph.

I have had my car since late last year, about five months, and the odometer says 8000 km/5000 miles.

My mileage has been good since day one but it was very cold when I bought it so mileage has probably gone up due to ambient temperature as well as a broken in engine. The first highway trip I got 43 imperial /36 US mpg but was also driving at between 115-140 kph /72-88 mph, which does lower mileage.

While this is good, my 2001 Saturn SL with the lower hp engine and a 5 speed could get 55 imperial/46 US mpg on the same trip and driving conditions. My 1992 Saturn got only 1 mpg less than this.

micweb · April 2003

I haven't noticed mileage increase on most post 1995 cars (before that, I didn't track mileage as much) after break-in. On a Golf, mileage seemed to go up 3-4 mpg, but only after over 20k of driving.

I have noticed variations in mileage due to oil viscoscity. The Golf called for 5-40 oil, which isn't available outside of Europe so far as I know. 5-50 (Castrol Syntec) seemed to give 1-2 mpg less than 5-30 (Mobil 1), which I attribute to the viscosity difference at operating temperatures. (I have recently read that Mobil 1 5-30 is at the "low end" of the permitted viscosity variation for 30 oil, which might have something to do with it as well; FYI, I have also heard that "high mileage car oil" is supposed to be at the higher range of its stated viscosity range; before this, I didn't know there was much variation permitted in the specs.)

The viscosity variation was tracked in a relatively short time frame, when I had an oil change done, so is probablyl accurate. The increase in gas mileage over time may be due to other factors, mainly learning to drive the car more smoothly and perhaps more efficiently - although I am usually nervous with new cars and take it easy, and drive harder once the car is broken in (which may be counterbalanced by a subconscious desire to drive faster and harder on a new, exciting car).

justin · April 2003

premium and plus are just a waste of money...

gbriank · April 2003

Well folks, this weekend was probably the coolest and the suckiest one I've ever had. Coming back from my best friend's wedding, I encountered a woodland creature along a state highway at 65 mph. I tried to dodge him but he turned back right in front of the car. Couldn't miss him. A better part of the airdam, lower bumper and plastic shield under the car are damaged. I believe most is cosmetic, but that usually means $$$. First hail damage now this! Does it ever end!

On a positive note, driving back I did achieve around 39.5 mpg.

dunworth · April 2003

So sorry to hear of all your troubles on such a new car. Have they fixed the hail damage yet or will all the work be done at the same time.

We had a great weekend here in Toronto but my car continues to emit all kinds of annoying buzzes in the dash board, vents, and driver door area. Back to the dealership I guess.

gbriank · April 2003

I've got another week and a half to wait just to get into the shop. So, I will discuss the repairs to the front end at the same time.

Buzzing and rattling?!?!?! Odd. I'm not having anything of the such on my Canadian built Civic. Do you have rough pavement up there?

dunworth · April 2003

Yes our roads are very bad here especially after one of the harshest winters in recent memory. Water gets into the road crevices and when the the temperature drops it freezes. The ensuing expansion breaks up the road causing very uneven surfaces.

My car is quiet on smooth roads which are few and far between these days.

Actually the engine is so quiet on a warm day when idling it is eerie - like an electric car. While my 2002 Corolla is quieter as a car, the engine in the Honda is quieter than one in the Toyota.

alpha01 · May 2003

The side airbags that are offered in the Civic- are they type that protect head and chest, as in the Elantra and Sentra, or the type that protects only the chest area, as in the Corolla?

~alpha

trigred · May 2003

Have had my '03Civic LX Sedan little over a month now. Runs fine. Speedometer goes to 140MPH. Know I probably won't be going over 80 but I'm curious. How fast have you guys had our 1.7 powered musclecar up to? Was ride anywhere near smooth at that speed?

sameejudge · May 2003

I just bought a 2003 Civic EX Sedan automatic. Am I reading the maintanince schedule right. Scheduled service is every 10,000 miles?

gbriank · May 2003

alpha01- Chest only.

trigred- I've only gotten up to 80, no higher.

Sameejudge- Depends upon where you live. "Severe" conditions such as bumper to bumper traffic, high or very low heat environments, heavy dust environments, etc... require oil changes every 5000 miles.

lngtonge18 · May 2003

The top speed of the Civic LX is governed to 113 mph.

jpk2003 · May 2003

I am looking at purchashing a certified 2002 automatic Civic LX from a Honda dealer with mileage of 37K for the price of $12,000. The vehicle appears in excellent condition. Should I reconsider due to the mileage?

rivertown · May 2003

Try the Real-World Trade-In Values thread on the Smart Shoppers board. Those guys KNOW the used car market inside and out. Read some posts to see what info they need to give you a take on the LX.

pat · May 2003

Here are a couple of resources for you:

Edmunds.com Used Car Appraiser and True Market Value on our host site and

Real-World Trade-In Values, the discussion rivertown mentions.

Hope this helps!

micweb · May 2003

10,000 mile oil changes, imho after a year of web-browsing, assumes full synthetic oil, an ample crankcase capacity, and mild driving in optimal conditions. (You can say full synthetic oil isn't specified, but then again why the recent industry upgrade, pushed by the car makers, to the SL oil spec, which is essentially a better "base oil" spec?)

Pretty consistently over the past 15 years, car manufacturers have had "optimistic" and "realistic" numbers. The optimistic numbers are based on their mandate to not waste oil. The realistic numbers are based on their desire for consumers to have good engine life.

Honda and VW have some of the longest oil change intervals - 10,000 miles. VW at least has a 5 quart crankcase - Honda only has 3.5. Ford has reduced its optimal rating from the previous industry standard 7,500 miles, to 5,000 mile regular, 3,000 miles severe.

Chevy Impalas have an "oil monitor" that calculates when an oil change is due based on driving patterns - it doesn't actually check the oil. Their lights tend to come on between 6,000 and 7,000 miles. BMW packs their Mini's with full synthetic, and their dealers told me that the oil change lights come on much earlier, for most drivers, than the "manual" requires - at around 7,000 - 8,000 miles.

I think the most I'd go is 5,000 miles on full synthetic, and 3,000-4,000 on regular oil. Look at it this way - would you like to put my 3,000 mile oil in your car and drive another 7,000 miles on it? Sounds crazy, huh, but that's what you are doing to your car when you leave the same oil in your car for that mileage.

Check with your dealer - my dealer recommends 3,000 mile oil changes, max 5,000. I don't think the dealer wants customer complaints, especially after Toyota's well publicized sludge problems. Also consider that here in America, no one is willing to put "good" oil in their car - in Europe, their is a special "eurospec" oil which is 5-40, full synthetic - Pennzoil and Castrol list it on the USA website for European cars - they are much less fanatical than we are about engine protection vs. gas mileage.

jjpcat · May 2003

I won't take the advice from the dealers or garages seriously on this issue. It's too obviously where their interests stand. On the other hand, it would be much more trustworthy for a car manufacturer to recommend long oil change period. Recommending a long change period does give them some marketing power. But, if that recommendation is not realistic by damaging the engines, they will end up ruining their own reputation. Isn't it interesting for Honda to recommend such a long interval while their engines are believed to be the most reliable ones?

That's why I always follow the oil change interval recommended by the manufacturers. So far, I haven't bumped into any engine problems with any of the 8 cars I have owned.

I would like to see independent/un-biased research results. But I haven't seen anything. The only one closed enough was published by Honda in the 90s. At that time, people were also amazed by the long oil change interval that Honda recommended. So, Honda did a lengthy test in NY/NJ areas and found no damage to the engine by following their own recommendation.

As for the engine problem reported against Toyota 3.0L V6 engines, it's because those people didn't change oil for 20k or even 30k miles (at least that's what Toyota said). I have owned 3 cars with that engine and I didn't have a single problem with the engines by following Toyota's recommendation.

anonymousposts · May 2003

I change my oil at 7500 miles. I don't do alot of stop-and-go driving, but if I did I would reduce that interval to 5000 miles. I think 3,000 is a little too frequent especially if you do alot of highway driving. At the rate I am driving now I would be changing my oil every 6 weeks.

jeff186 · May 2003

I see that Honda supposedly is adding a Value Package edition to the Civic line in the '04 model year. Honda seems to do this toward the end of a model's life cycle. Any idea what the V.P might include? ABS perhaps?

dunworth · May 2003

What? No discussion on the fact that the Civic won the Edmunds comparo. For shame. Where are all those Civic fans on this board.

This place is getting to be like the Civic's new commercials up here in Canada. It just shows people driving the cars talking about nothing in particular. The closing voiceover says something like: with a car as reliable as a Civic what will you think about?

I am enjoying my 2003 Galapagos Green Civic sedan which I have had now for 7 months with 10,000 km/6200 miles. The little rattle in the dash was repaired by the local dealer and with summer coming,I plan on doing lots of driving.

It ain't perfect but, man I like driving this car!

kcirred · May 2003

would bring over the 4 door hatchback then things would be perfect.

backy · May 2003

I dunno, maybe there hasn't been much chatter about the Civic EX's win because it was by less than one point over a $14k Elantra GLS. Still, a win is a win, and it shows that the Civic EX is a fine small car.

anonymousposts · May 2003

The fact that the $18000 Civic with less HP than the $14,000 Elantra still won is impressive in and of itself. Sure if all you want is cheap and okay, buy the Elantra but the Civic is the better car regardless of price.

npaladin2000 · May 2003

Sorry, but the Elantra gives you more for the money.

I'm still considering the Civic, but price is a factor, so it would be a Civic LX versus the Elantra GT, I think. If the Civic was available in a hatch, I would consider it more....is there ANY chance of them bringing it back?

isellhondas · May 2003

Is what really matters overall.

The lousy resale values of a Hyundai continue.

Four door hatchback? Maybe someday but I've heard nothing.

anonymousposts · May 2003

There is a Civic SI hatch. When I bought mine they were giving great deals but I think the popularity has picked up a little so the deals aren't quite as good. But I loved my SI. My fiance just decided to buy a GS300 and it made more sense for me to get rid of the SI and take his 03 Accord. Had we known we were going to buy another house further out we would've kept it, it was a great commuter.

backy · May 2003

According to Edmunds.com, the TCO for the Civic and Elantra in their recent comparo, the Civic EX auto with SAB and the Elantra GLS auto, is virtually identical for the first 5 years and 75,000 miles. I've had a bit better experience with my nearly three-year-old Elantra GLS, which based on published depreciation figures as in Edmunds.com and sale prices in my area, I figure has about $1500 TCO on the plus side compared to the Civic EX I considered back then. Don't confuse lower resale percentages with TCO. The percentages mean nothing; $$$$ means something.

lisshawill · May 2003

I am now officialy a proud owner of a 2003 Honda Civic Sport - canadian version of the EX!

Great car and really happy!!

First Honda and third new car. Prior had a Cavalier and a Venture. GM quality sucks!

Looking forward to many many years of good driving.

dunworth · May 2003

Congrats on the new car. You will love it. Mine is a 2003 4 door DX-G which is the mid trim level with the 115hp motor. Yours has the more powerful engine so I am sure you will have lots of fun.

Sorry you had trouble with your GM stuff.

I was a happy GM owner for more than 20 years with no major problems. They all served us well. But their designs have gotten tired and their fit and finish is absolutely the worst in the industry. Interiors are pretty bad as well - not to mention squeaks and rattles.

My last two GM products were Saturns which very good cars but I did not like the new Ion's appearance, interior, shifter or the fact that it got a lot worse fuel econ than my old cars. Here in the Toronto area at the time I bought my car, an Ion cost about the same as a Civic, although with the latest rebates the Ion is cheaper.

Now what do I do with my GM Visa card?

backy · May 2003

I think Pontiac stopped selling Sunbirds a few years ago. You mean Sunfires, right? Maybe the styling appeals to some people. Also it's one of the few affordable sporty coupes on the market, and with the Ecotec engine it's pretty peppy. Other than that, I can't think of a reason why anyone would want to buy one.

imidazol97 · May 2003

"Oh, yes, GM products are viewed throughout the world as mediocre, 2nd rate. Why I still see people driving around in new Sunbirds boggles my mind. It's as if they thought that the Sunbird was their only choice."

Are you sure all the world views GM products that way? That's a big research study to have done...

Personally I've found them well-built and dependable. I've maintained them with frequent oil changes and they've lasted just fine.

dunworth · May 2003

Those things sell really really well up here. The Civic is the best selling individual model but if you combine the 2 J cars they are number one.

They are big, cheap to buy, cheap to keep on the road,reliable, pleasant looking (interior quality aside)and overall decent value. Despite the fact that the interiors rattle a lot, I have always liked the basic value these cars represent. However the small Saturns were always better cars if you wanted to buy GM.

Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

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