Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Skip any of those details and it is a useless number being posted.
Did I pay more ? Perhaps. Lease started on Dec 31, 2002 for a Passat 2K2. Chase is the lessee.
Lissack, to complain about a VW delaer, please take a number. Your number is 1234567890. Good luck!
But, nice car, nevertheless.
My 1.8T Tip merges/passes without causing any second thoughts. It also costs $3K less! Uses less gas too! I can't hear my turbo. Actually I can't hear anything, it's so quiet in the car at speed. And smooth too! Well, gotta go - need some lettuce for dinner - guess I'll take the VW!
I was in a similar situation when I had a 2003 Accord coupe. Found out I was pregnant in August 2003, bought a 4-door Accord in September 2003, had the baby April 2, 2003, bought a 2004 Odyssey last night. The Accord was manageable but between the car seat and the stroller most of our cargo capacity was taken up. We love our Accord to death so we kept it and got in on an extrememly cheap lease on the Ody.
I've finally decided to get a Passat after buying a 2002 Subaru Outback wagon 2 years ago. My head won over my heart at the time, but at 34 I'm not quite ready to grow up. I'm going back to a manual transmission in the car I really wanted - life's too short!
Passats drive great. I'm sure you will enjoy it.
Hence, my concern as my usage and "light touch" enabled me to save some $$ on normal wear and tear usage repairs. So, given that nothing changed except for the new parts, why might there be a much higher wear rate on these parts? I spoke to the service guru at another dealership who said that the amount of wear reported might be an "eyeballing" by the tech and not an actual measurement -- I'm going to check that out with the service folks at the dealership that made the report.
However, if my situation is such that it is actual wear, I need to do something about this as I am not happy with such a drastic change in quality/durability of the parts. Has anyone used anyone other than VW for brake work and have the parts work been better than experienced at the dealership?
Again, thanks for any input and/or suggestions.
The 1.8T engine is a gift from VW/Audi to "their customers" worldwide. This little engine that could can be tuned a variety of ways. Practically speaking it spans a HP range of 150 to 225 in its various and sundry incarnations. Simply put, this engine produces such a broad range of published specs -- accurately, I might add -- based on the tuning of the turbo (and in the case of the 225HP version, larger turbo impellers.)
So, you are VW and you've got this great engine and it is a "snap" to tune it to a published 180HP, I mean it is a "couple of lines of code in a computer program" (and this is pretty close to being the literal truth.) And, you've also got this venerable work horse of a V6 engine that has been around for many years, is relatively reliable and was updated in 1998 to a 5 valve per cyc configuration and a relatively stress free 190HP. This engine isn't even breaking a sweat -- it is tuned to be, IMHO, lazy. It is, granted, smooth, reliable, relatively maintenance free and its only vice is its preference for Premium Juice.
It is decent with respect to torque, but the torque is not available from an early number of RPM's -- so geared as VW and Audi gear their cars with the Tiptronic, the cars they have this engine mated to (the current Passat and the former Audi A4 and A6) [with the Tiptronic] are, well, less quick than a lot of us would like (especially here in NA).
The manual transmission version due in large part to the final drive ratio (being lower) and due to the inherent "lack of loss" (of power) that is part and parcel of a manual set up feels considerably more spunky. But the engine is thirsty and above 5,000RPMs takes on somewhat of a more harsh note than one would expect in from such a manufacturer as VW (or Audi).
The 2.8 engine, when turbo charged, is considerably more fun and, indeed, was the engine that made the second generation S4 a BLAST to drive (and to this very day makes the A6 Sline a major bargain and a major performer). VW never was "allowed" to offer the turbocharged 2.8 engine (called a 2.7T due to the fact that the turbo version has thicker cylinder walls and therefore displaces slightly less volume -.1L, to be exact).
Enter the 1.8T -- "holy cow" this little dude could be crankin' 180HP in its sleep. Marketing enters the picture: on the one hand the 2.8 (essentially an engine with no future) is not going to be retuned to a loftier HP number, so it sits there at 190HP -- and "it just wouldn't do" to have a 4 cylinder engine that on paper is "only" 10HP less; but, so tuned would essentially accelerate (what we Americans love the most) almost identically with the 2.8.
The reasons for this are not sorcery, not alchemy, but "breathing." The 1.8T reaches its peak torque very low in the RPM range -- in effect, the 1.8T is more powerful from a dead stop than could be ascertained just by looking at the HP and torque numbers on a sheet of paper for the two engines.
Equip the 1.8T with a stick shift and the 2.8 Passat (which costs more and uses more gas) will see the 1.8T's tail lights.
This wouldn't do.
Engineering to Marketing's aid: detune the 1.8T slightly, give it "only" 170HP and slightly less torque.
OK, mission accomplished, right? Well, yes, no, but. You see the HP is knocked down -- legitimately -- since this is the number that people "buy" -- the torque however, drops somewhat less and still comes on at sub-1,900 RPM's. The 2.8 really prefers to show off its torque at about 50% higher RPM's (translation, longer in seconds or fractions thereof). In the early drag race of our daily American real-world, the 1.8T still feels stronger from a full stop and perhaps to 50MPH keeps up with or actually betters the 2.8's performance.
Further confuse the issue by not offering the 4motion V6 version (in the US) with anything but the Tiptronic, meanwhile offering the 1.8T with both AWD and full-manual transmission.
Thus, marketing has eliminated the awkward issue that would inevitably raise its head when someone would test drive the two back to back. Now, the 1.8T 4motion w stick can more or less avoid the hard to answer and harder to justify query "why is the 1.8T quicker than the 2.8 4motion?"
Since sticks are, um, well, supposed to be quicker than automatics -- the issue, is rendered inert, right?
Well, perhaps -- but then the oddest thing, the 2.8 is offered in FWD with a stick -- and for several reasons people do frequently like the packaging of the GLX (with the V6 and stick) better than the less fancy versions offered with the 1.8T and stick. Again, a great smoke screen and a configurator that only allows cars to be built that will "disavow any knowlege of your existence. . .this tape will self destruct in five seconds."
The 1.8T engine equipped Passats, since their maximum torque is available almost from idle, can really give the 2.8 versions a run for their money -- and the 1.8T versions cost less!
For my money, and with a "magic" configurator, I would want the following from the current Passat (VW&Audi) parts bin:
Passat in GLX trim
1.8T sufficiently blown to product a published 180HP and the corresponding bump in torque
Manual transmission
4Motion
Sport suspension (think GLX W8) package
Nice stereo system
Sat Nav
Priced at about $32,500 - $34,500
Nice 36 - 39 month lease deals
---
Stand back, these things would fly out of the showrooms.
---
Heck, I'd even consider all the above with a tiptronic available (as an option) for the shiftless crowd.
The reason such things are not available? Marketing. Not manufacturing capability, not expense even -- you see you just can't offer the Passat without a 6 cylinder engine. It doesn't matter that the 1.8T would be more efficient and frankly more effective. There are those who, even if they don't buy the 6, just want the piece of mind or piece of pie, I dunno, of knowing "they coulda had a V6."
The most desirable Passat, IMHO, is the sport optioned W8 -- long live the W8. By the way, for what it is worth, the W8 is deader than a doornail insofar as its future is concerned -- it is, to paraphrase Monty Python, "an ex-engine!" Yet, the 1.8T for not much money can be pretty much made to be the "best Passat currently offered" -- very close to the GLX in features and content, very close in peformance and very attractively priced.
I spent Saturday driving, with my wife, an Audi 1.8T equipped A4 -- after having driven a similar 3.0 (Audis V6 du jour) -- I have become a true believer that the 1.8T engine is one of the best things ever to come from VW and Audi AG -- if you are in the market for the Passat, take a long test drive with a Passat so equipped, you will be amazed.
Do you all think VW will continue to have similiar deals throughout 2004 to keep Passat and Jetta sales up? I would think without similiar cashback incentives, Passat sales would go back down. Just my thoughts.....
I have a 1.8 T Passat, and I like the car very much, It's one of the most enjoyable cars to drive that I've owned. I just don't like having to spend so much time in the shop, even though the work is all under warrantee. I'm convinced that VW/Audi would dominate the market if their quality was as good as their product designs and fun-to-drive index.
VW, certainly, may be the worst offender -- but Toyota is concerned that it is becoming the Japanese Cadillac and has a plan to thwart that perception. Honda, likewise, is planning to shed its loooonnnggg cycle times -- and so is VW (and Audi) so they claim.
New and exciting cars are coming from many companies for MY 2005 -- the trick will be to refresh these cars much more quickly NEXT time. The current Audi A6 came to market in 1997 and it soldiers on essentially (external styling cues, at a minimum) unchanged here in 2004. A new replacement, already getting lots of buzz, isn't due until October 29, 2004.
The quote about VW is NOT incorrect -- it is however incomplete in that it does not expand upon this notion to include some other "offenders." And, don't get me started on American cars -- but 2005 is already looking promising -- I am psyched about the new Chrysler 300C, the Cadillac STS and some others too numerous to mention. Ditto the Acura RL and several interesting offerings from Infinity. The new 3 series BMW will be here next MY and there will be a 2005.5 Audi A4 followed by a new 2006 version taking the new A6's technology and "internalizing" it.
Someone has been asleep at the wheel so to speak at several of these companies -- I believe to a company they all know about the condition of their condition.
The mention of VW and glory days, I do find somewhat interesting however in light of the wonderful Touareg and the bargain luxobarge Phaeton (and the R32, even with its limited run). I suspect we are lamenting the loss of focus on the mainstream VW bloodline -- and if that is the case I, once again, agree. But, I wish to underscore that they are not alone in this regard.
This "being not alone" does not excuse anything -- the rule they should follow is lead. The fact that so many have allowed product to stagnate, however, may, in part, be excused by the global economic slowdown we have been enjoying for the past three years (the bottom fell out in manufacturing and technology in May 2001, and it is now heading back up). Things, if you believe in cycles, are "due" for some rapid rebirth as the Western Economies rebound.
Ahhh alliteration has a rather nice ring to it, don't you think?
Or don't you?
VW's fault is quality and reliability. If their products were as reliable as the Japanese brands, they would own the market. And if you think reliability has to suffer because Audi/VW are "cutting-edge" and fun-to drive, I disagree. Just look at Nissan and the Infiniti G35. They are terrific cars, and also reliable. If they would only get the interiors right...
Why can't one manufaturer get it all right?
While I do think that VW needs to refresh its products with greater frequency, my point was intended to say "yes, but. . ." VW is not alone in this regard and indeed there are areas in which they have not been lagging.
If I overstated "my" case in terms of out of date-ness of products, well, I hereby slightly retract the statement.
Indeed, I find that, for instance, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and a number of the American car mfgs have not been refreshing their product lines as often as it is becoming apparent the "market" has or is coming to expect.
I want to make this one thing perfectly clear: I am a fan of virtually everything Audi and VW have on the market. I may have some frustrations that the product line is not kept as fresh as it apparently will need to be as we move into the second half of the first decade of the 21st century -- but overall I am a great big fan of these manufacturer's products.
As I drive 500 to 700 miles per week, the differences between vehicles fast become evident over time--VW is a driver's car. With over 40k on the clock already, my Golf TDI has been great. Just to mention that I recently test drove the new Passat TDI--WOW!!! As an engineer and 'car nut' I recommend you do the same.
OK, some suggetions for VW. Why the big push to move so far upscale, i.e., over $50k for the Phaeton and Toureg. I thought that is Audi's territory. Why not bring economical DIESEL vehicles to the USA under the VW name? I'd love to see a TDI SUV: Honda CRV/Toyota Highlander-sized and priced to sell. I envision a Passat or Jetta Wagon with more ground clearance and a 'tougher' look. VW now has a great opportunity to promote diesels in the USA and ride the gasoline alternative wave that hybrid vehicles initiated.
Through the ever changing economic sands of time, those products that "cater to the upscale" seem more resiliant, more, ahem, profitable.
This may or may not be able to be proven, I am not here to defend it, just report that this represents my interpretation of VW's intent and reasoning.
They're movin' on up "to the Eastside, to a dee-luxe apartment, in the sky-i."
The Touareg and Phaeton are steps one and two, the rest of the plan will unfold over the next few cycles -- subject to change? Sure -- but, thus far it is too soon to declare this upscale push has crashed and burned or soared to the highest highs.
Keep checking, I'll give them until 2007 to show success in this endeavor. I wonder how much time the Board of Directors and shareholders will give, before significant evidence of success is no longer optional?
I discovered in doing my research that it is almost impossible to get a power passenger seat (6-way power or more) on even the best models of the cars of this size and price. We found the Taurus had a 6-way but is an old car with many shortcomings, the Lincoln LS had a 6-way, but rear drive, and the large new KIA met our needs, but I was suspicious of its newness and low volume, and so the Passat with 8-way and lumbar support was just the ticket.
I have owned 46 cars in my years of driving, and from memory, as faulty as it is, the Passat appears to be the best driving car I have ever owned. 400 miles of usage doesn't really tell me much but it rides well and quietly and handles superbly, and so with fingers crossed about the reliability factor we can only hope for the best. It has a radio, which we rarely use, that has a lousy AM band that will need to be fixed, but other than that, so far so good.
What is hard for me to understand is why VW has let such bad reliability problems continue for so many years especially in view of the worldwide competition that it faces. I was reluctant to purchase a car from them because of that reputation and I wonder how many sales they have lost because of it.
For what it's worth, I had to replace my battery this week. That and replacing the rear brake pads are my only repairs thus far as my Passat turns 4 years old this month and has 62,000 miles. This is my 3rd VW and have had good luck with all of them.
I know this isn't going to convince some of anything, and frankly, I understand why.
I just find that there is perhaps a perception about quality and reliability that I can't recreate, for my experiences with almost 30 German cars would indicate that they are NOT unreliable.
To read some posts, one would think the wheels of VW's and Audis (and other Germans) are at all times on the verge of falling off, the engines "are gonna blow" any minute and that they are just plain dangerous.
While I admit to publishing my opinion that a VW or Audi or other German for that matter are "breathtakingly expensive" to keep out of warranty, I honestly have had, since 1977, an insufficient number of problems with my German cars to ever discourage me from the next one.
But, I still WANT them to be more reliable.
BTW, I maintain my cars well and I tend to keep them for many miles (sold my Jetta to my mechanic with 225,000 miles on it) and my high mileage Hondas had plenty of stuff that needed repair/replacement.
I got a $1000 owner loyalty on the new Passat. I certainly didn't buy the Passat because of that. Nor was I nervous because at 90K miles the clutch went out on my '95 Jetta. I bought the Jetta for my oldest daughter when she was in HS and my youngest daughter is still driving it in grad school.
A clutch failure at 90K (four years ago) would not discourage me from a new VW. For others a blown fuse at 10K is enough to have them howling to Consumer Reports.
In the winter time, I drive in snowy conditions fairly frequently, but only when I'm headed up to go skiing. My experience has shown that there are only a few days per year that require chains, so surely the inconvenience is outweighed by the lower vehicle cost and the relatively better gas mileage. On a side note, it raised my eyebrows to see that Volkswagen's website states that the tire/wheel combination on my GLX is now compatible with tire chains, whereas my owner's manual prohibits their usage. I've seen many posts in the Town Hall forums whose general tone on the subject suggests that FWD Passats do just fine in slippery conditions. Does anyone have an opinion on the ESP option?
My only concern is that of selling the current vehicle. Kelly Blue tells me my car is worth $28.5K, but with all of the dealer incentives, it seems that I'd be hard pressed to get this kind of compensation, and certainly not from the dealer. Is there any reason to believe that the dealer will offer me a reasonable price? I have no problem selling to a private party, on the other hand.
Thanks, I'd appreciate hearing about others' experiences.
That's just me. For actual research go to : http://www.esceducation.org/
See, for example, the University of Iowa study that's linked to in the left column.
This is a feature that (unlike ABS) can greatly reduce your risk of losing control even when you have to maneuver fast. Given that VW makes it available for so little extra (unlike Toyota, which makes you pay thousands over the base price), I agree with Mark: don't even consider passing it up.
Toyota found that ESC reduced single vehicle crashes by 35% and head on crashes by 30%. Mercedes reported a 29% drop in single vehicle accidents, crashes of all types reduced 15%. In some cases it will sense an impending rollover and deploy the side curtain airbags before the vehicle can flip, or preempt the roll over by braking individual wheels to keep the car right-side-up.
In brief, ESC is probably the most revolutionary safety development in the last 5 years, and congratulations to VW for being one of the first to offer it in a mainstream sedan at a reasonable price.
Here is a URL on intelligent stability and handling systems -- also listed are the Brand Names different companies use for what is essentially the same technology:
http://www.abs-education.org/ishs/techindex.html
Some names for intelligent stability and handling systems that you may recognize are:
· Active Handling
· AdvanceTrac™
· Dynamic Stability Control
· Electronic Stability Program or ESP
· StabiliTrac
· Traxxar™
BTW, if you can buy from a dealership that also sells/services higher end vehicles, the service tends to be better (i.e. one of the two dealerships I purchased from sells Audi, Porshe, SAAB, BMW, and exotics; the other sells BMW and Volvo)
Yes, we should expect reliable cars, but there is much more to it. VWs are fine cars that provide great enjoyment. Don't be fearful of what might happen or you'll end up buying a car that you're bored with in a few months.
It also helps having a manual tranny. No creep to contend with, brakes can cool better when stopped (as they don't need to be applied), and more control with engine braking.
You don't need to go downhill to get 100 mpg, just get a Lupo! : ^ )
This 1.8 turbo Volkswagen Passat (4) door sedan is loaded and in excellent condition!
ONLY 36k MILES!!
Features: Automatic with Triptronic transmission, Air Conditioning, Cruise Control, Power Door Locks W/Keyless Entry, Power Steering, Power Brakes, PremiumAudio System, Bucket Seats, Power Windows, Alarm System, Lighted Entry System, Digital Clock, Power Door Locks, Remote Trunk Release, Tilt And Telescopic Steering Wheel, Center Console, Daytime Running Lights, Intermittent Wipers, Rear Window Defroster, Tachometer, Trip Computer.
Price is $13500 OBO
Range 1.5 to 4 seconds. My personal experience was MOSTLY in the low range of lag. The articles and petition I have read cite that it is "dangerous" -- I found it to be annoying as can be, but hardly dangerous.
Usually I find tip lag embarrassing, cause you try to start out from a rolling stop perhaps as you enter an intersection on GREEN and the light turns yellow, so you press down on the accelerator to scoot through the intersection and the car P - A - U - S - E - S and you compensate by flooring the acclerator and just about that moment the transmission "makes up its mind" and the car lurches and lunges forward depending on the torque curve of your engine.
Happening, for me, in first a $72,000 Audi A8 and $40,000 A6 2.8 and two over $50K A6 4.2's was enough to make me believe it was NOT my driving habits, but the sofware in the tip. Then I drove a Mercedes and it could be made to do the same thing.
I gave up -- went back to stick shift -- the performance, fun, safety and economy all came back, and they charge less for the manual equipped versions, to boot!