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Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans
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With all due respect, that is one of the most absurd rationalizations I've seen. I hope that you wrote that in jest. It's sort of like an abused person saying "I don't mind it when my partner beats me, because (s)he says sorry and treats me nicely afterwards!"
The other flaw with it is that there are certainly no ways of guaranteeing survivability of *any* accident, whether you're in a C Class or Volvo(NCAP****) or even a Renault Laguna (NCAP*****).
If these (perhaps isolated) problems can be traced back to these "Smartkeys", I for one would tell M-B to dump them and go back to something that works. I'd MUCH rather have a chance of my car being stolen than have it crap out on me in heavy traffic, or even not work in the morning. Am I alone here?
Anyway, I'll reserve judgment on the reliability question until we get some statistically significant data, which should be coming out soon.
Mike
It was not meant to be a rationalization.
Guess you need smileys :-P
However, while your statement about survivability is true..i.e., there is no absolute, a MB or Volvo comes the closet to it of all cars available. If you have the time, take a poll of any ER doctors or ambulance drivers or cops you know...ask them which cars they see most people walk away from accidents in...
As for the reliability issue, if it is #1 on your list of shopping priorities (you do have a prioritized list, no?), I'd suggest you look at a car that does *not* use any sort of electronic key. Sometimes older tech is more reliable. :-)
My guess is a few years from now, when every bug is worked out, Lexus, Acura, BMW and all the rest will come out with a similiar starting system and proclaim their reliability. Then Mercedes will be bashed for lack of quality control. This has been true for decades now.
I for one am sick of it, with new, innovative technology problems will exist, especially when car companies are under so much pressure and unable to properly test their vehicles. When looking at the whole picture, Mercedes are very reliable when factoring in that they are by far the most technologically advanced automobile on the road.
On the other hand, the problems some C-class owners are experiencing are totally unacceptable, and if it happened to me I would be steaming.
Unless MB has changed their modus operandi, I would expect the issues with newer technology to diminish in successive years - and the newer C-Class models to inevitably becomes the next "older, reliable" models for the generation that will supercede them. The process in-between can be quite frustrating, though.
By the way, I live in Atlanta and patronize RBM, due to excellent people like Kay Goggins in Sales and Don Ratajski who has been my Service Advisor for almost 3 years now. They (along with my dentist) are among the reasons I am reluctant to leave this area, though for larger reasons I will eventually be moving back to New England.
imho,
-Paul_P
Is there a difference between the keys for the W202 and those for the W203? If so, it's a shame we're the forced early adapters for it.
My C240 Sport 6 spd is due the end of Oct. I hope the keys have been figured out.
Cheers,
John W.
Mike
My chrome rims were transferred from my first C320 (Black) to my second C320 (Obsidian) at the dealer owner's request. When I took delivery of the Obsidian on 05/30 and Klasse'd the entire body and rims, I noticed that three of the four rims had one to two inch marks on them located at the rim edges close to the tires. They looked like clamp or pry marks. In addition, one of these three rims also had a line that looked like a seam in the chrome and it went through to the inside and outside of the rim. I now know it was a crack and not a seam. I did not bring the car in to show them at that time because I thought these defects were not important enough as they were; I did not want to bother the dealer any more than I had to; and I felt if they caused no harm I would "live" with them.
A few weeks ago, I realized the mark that looked like a seam was really a crack in the chrome. It is on the front driver side, and it had spread and was rough and dented or collapsed on the edge. I brought the car in to ask my service advisor if he thought the rough edges would rub against the tire and cause damage. Again, my unlucky day -- the customer relations/bouncer came to look at the rims. He accused me of many things and said, "Knowing how meticulous you are, Miki, you would have brought the car in right away if they were there when you brought the car home." He escalated (his face got red) and I kept trying to calm him by saying these are only rims and not worth his getting excited about, and that I was not there to have them replaced. I asked three times the cost of new rims and he would not tell me.
I thought the marks could have been the result of the rims removed and transferred three or four times. He told me it was impossible for this to happen since they use a machine. QUESTION? Is anyone familiar with this machine and is he telling me the truth? I was told by one person who works with cars that if they use too much pressure it can do damage.
In summary, because I did not bring the car in right away for the reasons stated above, I was being accused of lying about the marks on the three rims being there at delivery. I felt defensive and demeaned. This "customer relations" person never took the time to understand my reason for bringing in the car in the first place, and he attacked my integrity. I sent a fax to the service manager with a blind copy to the dealer owner on 09/21, giving a brief description of my feelings and requesting he speak to my service advisor and let him know that I am not comfortable working with this man and in the future prefer not to have personal contact with him. I asked the Service Manager to advise me if he could do this for me. I have, to date, not received a reply to my fax.
So.... on 09/28, I sent a copy of this fax, along with a detailed report to the MB rep in my area.
Miki
http://www.mbworld.org/upload/2001/c3203.jpg
In my experience with the dealership so far, I strongly believe mechanical proficiency, communication, and a sense of caring goes a long way to make a customer satisfied even if the problem is not completely fixed during the first visit. Unfortunately, some service folks, mechanics included, are much better at what they do as compared to their colleagues elsewhere thereby leading to the understandable level of frustration manifested on this forum. I am not even convinced at this time that the folks at the Mercedes Customer Assistance Center know what they talk about sometimes. This is based on first-hand experience the few times I called in about the purge valve.
I consider myself fortunate after reading the plight of others. Should I consider myself fortunate? I don't believe I should. My pleasant experience to date is the way it should be for all. That may not be realistic since we are dealing with machines. That's understandable. In that case, the mechanical proficiency, communication, and a sense of caring should kick-in. Here in the LA area, Mercedes dealers are not as saturated in areas as other dealers thereby making it difficult at times to just go to another dealership for service. For those experiencing problems, and as frustrating as it may be, I say continue escalating and if Mercedes really believes in the service it has come to be known for, they may pressure the dealers to act in a more professional and proficient manner. Could this be wishful thinking? Hope not.
Yep, hard to show emotions on the web, especially wry humor.
If you knew me, that's exactly how I am though ;-)
Nanky,
Our cars are twin Obsidians -- they traveled to the USA together on the same ship and arrived at the same port of entry. However, from your description of your dealer, methinks the twins were not purchased from the same dealership. Yours sounds more human. (I live in Brentwood -- Westside of Los Angeles)
>In my experience with the dealership so far, I >strongly believe mechanical proficiency, >communication, and a sense of caring goes a long >way to make a customer satisfied even if the >problem is not completely fixed
You are absolutely correct. If either the service manager or the owner with whom I have done business responded to my fax, it would have minimized and offset my upsetting encounter with their customer relations person. To be ignored is very insulting. This is not a professional or courteous way to do business.
I love my C320 and other than the more-than-usual windshield distortion which does not bother me, so far (knock on wood) I have not had any mechanical or cosmetic problems, other than the chrome rims. I will be taking the car to West Coast Tires where I buy all my tires and carry a Road Hazard Warranty for the 320 Continentals. They
will be able to tell me if something is wrong with the rims and if the one with the cracked collapsed edge will harm the tire. I don't trust anything the customer relations person tells me now.
Meanwhile, I hope to hear from the MB Service and Parts Operation Manager whose territory is all of Los Angeles and Orange Counties.
Miki
Most MB dealers have lots of experience handling wheels to avoid damage, but your description of these clowns certainly indicates they could employ one or more gorillas in the shop who don't know how to do it right. You can order replica wheels that fit perfectly, with new tires, from Tire Rack [and others] that are ready to mount on the car. This is almost always the best approach to replacing damaged OEM alloys on MBs, because the factory wheels are ridiculously expensive, unless you can get the dealer to pay....
Thanks
2002 C 240s still showing same problems which was common in 2001 models - TRUNK LOCKING, I was under impression that MB must have fixed in 2002 models but unfortunately I was wrong - my Silver C 240 shows no sign of opening its trunk and surprisingly I found the Metal Key which comes along with Smart Key is not working either - I have called dealer and he said pull the CAR to service, will do that today and will keep you posted you guys - just curious who had this problem before how much time service takes to fix it ?
thanks in advance
In the past I had the impression that Mercedes owners might be somewhat snobbish. However you guys on this forum are the most helpful and down to earth people I have ever met. Hope that attitude never changes.
Mike
Bubba
"... My friends all drive Porches, I must make AMENDS" J. Joplin
Our cars are twin Obsidians -- they traveled to the USA together on the same ship and arrived at the same port of entry. However, from your description of your dealer, methinks the twins were not purchased from the same dealership. Yours sounds more human. (I live in Brentwood -- Westside of Los Angeles)
>>>>
Miki - If there is an Eastside of Los Angeles, that's where I live - Chino Hills. The twins were seperated at the Port of Long Beach and I purchased mine from Penske Motorcars in West Covina. Hope your wheel problem is resolved to your total satisfaction. Still loving the Obsidian Black color.
Me, too.
Miki
<<"...visits from the Taste Police...">>
404c wrote:
<<HaHaHa, I >love it. So cruel Chroming >wheels is the most obvious example of form >completely over-riding function. Please don't do >it - chrome wheels look - quite frankly - >
ridiculously cheesy.>>
Gentlemen:
You have tried my sense of humor and I am truly insulted. However, since you do not know me or those with whom I associate who do prefer chrome rims, your tasteless remarks must be put in the proper perspective. Methinks you might be where the good taste is lacking.
Miki
<<Besides, it's fun to see the snobs cringe when they see chrome rims on a MB.....>>
Mark,
A few years back, I think chrome rims were not "cool" -- but I have very famous friends in sports -- and conservative established friends in the entertainment industry -- both groups share our appreciation of chrome wheels. I read in an MB newsletter that my dealer is the top-selling dealer in the country. They cater to the most affluent and famous in the County -- you should see all the cars with chrome wheels there! Being affluent and famous does not necessarily mean good taste, but it does set a trend methinks. I think those who do not like chrome rims have a right to their opinion, but I think they are a bit outdated and living in the past.
Miki
Hope you can share some insights!
<<If I ever had an example of discourtesy such as some of you have reported, (and it has happened) I do my best to teach the offending party(s) a lesson in manners that will not soon be forgotten. No faxes, no phone calls, no letters; but with personal visits and non-negtiable demands>>
Bubba -- In the fax I sent re my encounter with customer relations man, I wrote "I do not think he would have been able to speak to a man the way he spoke to me without risk of confrontation." Since he is a LOT bigger than I am, I have to refer to the "pen is mightier than the sword" approach. That said, do not think for a minute I was not tempted to punch him in the nose, but I could not reach it.
I would change dealers in a New York minute, but they are not convenient. However, the MB Service and Operations Manager is the same for both Los Angeles and Orange Counties, and he is the one who gets the job done.
Miki
<<Undoubtedly, the wheels were damaged somewhere in the mounting process in the shop - unless you caused the damage by scraping a curb.>>
The cracked rim is on the front driver side -- I do not park where curbs are on the left side.
<<If you wind up replacing the wheels, get something without the chrome finish - these are nothing but problems waiting to happen.>>
I hope this is not true because I love the chrome wheels and would get them again (methinks
<<Most MB dealers have lots of experience handling wheels to avoid damage, but your description of these clowns certainly indicates they could employ one or more gorillas in the shop who don't know how to do it right.>>
Indeed! They goofed up my first 320!
<<You can order replica wheels that fit perfectly, with new tires, from Tire Rack [and others] that are ready to mount on the car. This is almost always the best approach to replacing damaged OEM alloys on MBs, because the factory wheels are ridiculously expensive, unless you can get the dealer to pay....>>
I'm working on it! Thanks for "most" of your post
Miki
Another downside to chrome plating rims is it makes them heavier which degrades both the ride and handling aspects of the car, which defeats the point in having alloy rims in the first place.
I personally think that the wheels makes a huge difference in a car. would like to get some chrome rims for my car as well but want some wheels that have a lip on it. I am still trying to find some nice ones.
let me know if anyone has any suggestions or pics of chrome rims on their cars ... and like someone said, it's a matter of opinion....
boooo hooooo!
looks like 2-3 grand to fix..... ugh
Hi Fuzzo,
I have the standard C320 wheels, but they are "chromed". I was pleased with chrome on my plain Black and just as pleased with how they look on the Obsidian Black. On a Black or Obsidian Black the chrome is very handsome because it matches the minute chrome trim and emblem, without introducing another medium. If I had Magma Red, Bordeaux Red, Wedgewood Blue, Glacier White, Desert Silver, Brilliant Silver or any color that was not dark, I am not sure if I would do chrome. Sorry, I do not have pics.
Miki
I was wondering which LA MB dealer you're having so much trouble with. I ordered my C240 through a broker who uses the dealer in Santa Monica. I hope that's not the one.
Oh, yeah! Great win at the USGP, yesterday ;-)
John W.
Hope no one was hurt...
Miki
Another downside to chrome plating rims is it makes them heavier which degrades both the ride and handling aspects of the car, which defeats the point in having alloy rims in the first place.
>>>
You must be kidding right? If not then I guess coats of Armorall, Meguair's and what have yous equally degrade ride and handling. What's next???
Even now, if you put lots of keys on it and go over railroad tracks, the key would get loose enough, lose contact w/ the transponder, and the engine will shut down.
Progress...well...at least it's harder to steal...the person who installs car alarms for the MA state police said the ML did *NOT* need Lojack, and that was before it came w/ TeleAid :-)
Miki
Bubba
"... My friends all drive Porches, I must make AMENDS..." J. Joplin
Removing the factory paint may itself damage the cast material, depending upon how they do it, but providing a very sharp heat-shock (by hot-spraying molten Cr onto the cast Al) will, I guarantee, weaken the already porous material by making small, probably microscopic cracks in the surface of the wheel structure. These cracks, like any good crack, will spread and intensify. This is likely what the previous poster has experienced on her wheels.
Aside from being a nuisance in terms of finish, these cracks are downright dangerous, as the cracked wheel can fail catastrophically when under load (such as during spirited cornering). I seriously hope no-one is nominated for a Darwin award by suffering such a problem at speed.
If your wheels show ANY signs of cracks they must be replaced immediately, or at the very least magnafluxed to check for the profundity of the crack. If they are structurally damaged (which is by far the most likely scenario), demand new M-B factory, painted wheels from the shop that did the plating. It is not the responsibility of Mercedes-Benz to replace wheels damaged in this way. Do not mess around with this stuff, it's not worth it.
If any of you are still in any doubt that the practice of chromium-plating Aluminum alloy wheels is unwise, I suggest that you write a letter to Mercedes-Benz and/or the Technische Überwachungs Verein (TÜV) in Germany to see whether they recommend this particular modification.
Far better than typical cast Al wheels are the much more expensive and extremely strong forged Al wheels, as supplied on the C32. I suspect that these may better support thermal shocks that Cr plating entails, but then again one's better aesthetic judgment should intervene before that occurs ;-)
In all seriousness, don't chromium plate aluminum wheels!
Mike
"I don't think being violent or threatening would earn the respect that I think I deserve and demand. That said, I try to always avoid losing my temper and never be vengeful, and to never try to get even... If I can't come out way ahead, then I have lost. ;-)"
Miki:
Sorry, Bubba, I must have misunderstood your post.
Bubba:
"If I ever had an example of discourtesy such as some of you have reported, (and it has happened) I do my best to to teach the offending party(s) a lesson in manners that will not soon be forgotten. No faxes, no phone calls, no letters; but with personal visits and non-negotiable demands."
Miki:
So, how would you, a pacifist, go about teaching offending parties a lesson in manners that will not soon be forgotten? Invite them to tea? -- How would you advise a courteous, patient, calm, respectful petite blonde who is being bullied and not used to rough and rude treatment handle this type of situation? My husband always advised me not to deal with the lower level employees if they were being unpleasant and to quietly walk away and go straight to the top. It is good business methinks, particularly with a new car, to document everything -- it has worked wonders for me -- so the faxes, letters and Emails have been very beneficial. Keep in mind, Bubba, this customer relations man would not have spoken to you as he did to me.
Mike -- I don't understand why MB is not responsible if they supplied the chrome wheels as an add on and the car is less than four months old.
Miki