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Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans



  • fuzzofuzzo Posts: 88
    People over here talking about million dollar neigborhoods and things like that make me believe that I'm doing something wroooooooong :)

    i need some good financial advise or a better job so I can move on up (like the jeffersons)

    anyones company hiring?
  • fuzzo,

    To put some perspective on it, where Miki lives (I think she said Westwood once) with her $1MM home, she is considered middle class.
  • michhalamichhala Posts: 375
    >To put some perspective on it, where Miki livesI >think she said Westwood once) with her $1MM >home, she is considered middle class

    Not by those who love me!!!!

    LOL -- and it feels good to lighten up a bit methinks. I live in Brentwood, which is next door to Westwood -- and then there was O.J. -- definitely low-class.

  • Twelve months now with my C320 - 9,400 miles...22.3 MPG...No problems. If I had it to do over again, I'd get the C, but probably the wagon instead. Having said that, I've got my eye on a 2005 E-wagon.

  • edarteedarte Posts: 41
    "Fine cars all, but I agree with 3pointstar that they are just not at the same level as a C-Class and above - a MB will cost more, but once you've driven one, you'll never go back."

    I think you need look no further than this MB board to see this is not a true statement. I have read numerous posts where MB drivers have switched to other marques (including Lexus) and have commented on the benefits of such a change.

    I considered going the other way (from a ES300 to a C) and because I assumed the MB line a step up. However, while I was initially impressed by the C, the dealer experience, quality issues, (and not previously mentioned cheapness of MB (i.e., floor mats not included,some plastic bits look very cheap, etc.)changed my mind. This makes me wonder if maybe it is MB who now put all their money into marketing the "sizzle" and perhaps Lexus is more interested in the "steak".

    Note to Michhala: I am surprised on the preference for the BMW 5 series over the 3. You mention trunk capacity but on paper the specs show only a 0.4 cu ft difference. I suppose this might be critical in some situations but visually I could not detect a difference. This subtle dimension difference was true on the interior specs as well. I still fail to see why I would want to pay the extra money for a car that (I think) is not as good overall as the 3 series.
  • If your Smart keys have a serial # starting of with "138", you can ask your dealer to switch them for newer keys. My "138" keys can not open the doors periodically. The key # is on the left side of the Panic buttom.
  • edarteedarte Posts: 41
    I am always amazed when people mention that Lexus is just an enhanced Toyota. This is a true statement regarding the ES300 vs. the Camry. However there are also subtle but critical differences between these two cars.

    I have had an ES300 for three years and sometimes if my dealer ran out of Lexus loaners they apologized and provided Avalons. While the Avalon was a nice ride the level of sound proofing, quality of leather, etc. were perceptible different. It was apparent they were based on the same platform but the quality feel was different. (Not unlike what I experienced while testing the new C. I very much liked the interior but could not help but have some doubt about moving away from the quality-feel of the ES300.)

    Now when you start talking about the Lexus LS430 series the Toyota comparison is even more flawed as the LS is a totally different (e.g. RWD vs. FWD) automobile for which there is no equivalent (that I am aware of) in the Toyota line. What is the equivalent Toyota for the SC430?

    If one is being critical just because one line of cars is related, through corporate ownership, to another then I think you are on very shaky ground indeed. Lexus may be related to Toyota, a manufacturer of cars that continually receive praise in the automotive media. MB is now related to Chrysler that does produce some innovative designs (e.g., PT Cruiser) but is not one that I regard as a particularly noble stable mate.

    Overall I think this is a very shallow issue - one not unlike buying a car because of its name (or marketing image) rather than the actual quality and value of the vehicle.

    I would be very interested in hearing from one of the serious MB defenders after they have given Lexus a fair test. If you drive a C go testdrive the new 2002 ES300. If you now drive an e or an S testdrive the LS430 or SC430 and provide your feedback.
  • michhalamichhala Posts: 375
    >Note to Michhala: I am surprised on the >preference for the BMW 5 series over the 3. You >mention trunk capacity but on paper the specs >
    >show only a 0.4 cu ft difference

    Methinks there is a misunderstanding. I was stating some of the reasons why I bought the C320 rather than the BMW 330i -- one reason was the C320 had a larger trunk, visible to the naked eye. When I told the BMW salesperson this, he did not believe me until he took a look at both the C320 and BMW 330i trunks side by side. If the difference is only 0.4 cu ft, then the trunk design specs do not utilize the space properly.

  • ghaysghays Posts: 8
    For those of you that have received replacement keys, what are the first three digits of the "serial number" (actually, I think it is the part number) on the left of the Panic button?
  • Had to have the keys on our C320 replaced about a month or so ago. Never a problem with not starting the car but we had intermitant unlocking problems.

    Both replacement keys have the same number on them, starting with 221. I thought it strange that the original keys had different numbers but the replacement units have the same numbers on them. I actually wrote down the numbers on my original keys to make sure that I really did get new units.

    Hope this info helps.
  • edarteedarte Posts: 41
    "Methinks there is a misunderstanding." You are absolutely right. I had incorrectly thought you were comparing the 3 to 5 series BMW, not (as a more careful read on my part shows) the MB C320 with the BMW 330. In actual fact the specs for the two cars on Edmunds show the trunk volumes of 10.7 & 12.2 cu ft. for the BMW 330 & the MB C320, respectfully.

    My apologies.
  • Looking for a C320. Looking to order. I have great flexibility in timing. Any suggestions as to when to order for the best deal?
  • mleskovarmleskovar Posts: 171
    My replacement key number to the left of the panic button starts with 221, received it about a month ago. Best time to buy is 1. When new models are starting to ship and 2. At the end of the month when performance to sales goals are counted.
  • Many posts back, there was mention of the new motors that MB will deliver in the next couple of years. Does anybody have links to more detailed descriptions of the new technology? How does it stack up against Valvetronic for example?

  • nycanyca Posts: 232
    Here's a general link, not MB related:

    Sorry to hear about Drew. By the way, how does make money? I don't see that many ads on their pages?

    Definitely true about buying towards the end of the month if you buy from dealer stock. But if you order a car, I wonder if the same is true?

  • michhalamichhala Posts: 375
    I keep my climate control on automatic and set at 72 degrees for driver and passenger sides. My first 320 (Black) always kept the temperature comfortably cool or warm as needed. Because it did what it was supposed to do, it was a just set and forget situation. The round vent at the extreme left of the dash often had warm air flowing from it.

    My current 320 (Obsidian) is great at cooling, but last night was our first cool night since delivery and I was uncomfortably cold. There was no warm air (or any air) coming from the round vent. I turned the center thumbwheel down and I turned it up. I played with the air volume control outlet on dashboard top. Am I missing something? -- I can run down to the dealer tomorrow, but maybe it will not be necessary.

  • sddlwsddlw Posts: 361
    I think that MB will have the image of one of the great marquis car companies for a long time to come, just as Lexus/Toyota will always be working to shed it's image of those little econo-boxes of the 60s and 70s. But times have changed.

    If you look at line-up and pricing, in 1990, the 190E 2.3, starting at about $30K and the E-class was about $50k. Not all that different today. In fact, this year, with the new Es coming out soon, a basic E320 can be had for about $45K. MB has made significant price reductions when you factor in inflation, bringing them in reach of many people who could not consider one before. At the same time, Toyota/Lexus has made enormous strides in creating their version of the near lux and lux cars. And in many ways, they are offering value that MB and some of the other marquis makers may not be.

    As I said before, we have owned 3 MBs. The 190E that evolved into the C-class, an E-class and an SL. My brother-in-law sells MBs and I sometimes drive other MBs to get the feel of them, or drive one of his. But I now own and drive a Lexus ES300 as a daily driver. Why? My E-class was costing me $2500-$3000 per year to maintain. I got pissed-off. And I got a model close-out price on the ES that the C-class couldn't come close to option for option. This was at the end of 2000 when the C-class was being changed too. But for less than $31k the ES came with all the options including 6-disc CD, HID headlights, sunroof, leather, auto dim mirrors, auto headlights, power seats with memory,etc., and the ride is similar to, but not exacly like my old E, and I'm counting on the cost of maintanence to be significantly lower.

    Are there things the C-class offers that the ES doesn't .... of course. The incredible tightness and ride of the MB line-up is unmistakable. Will I consider an MB again.... absolutely. But I am not a hard and fast MB loyalist who will not consider other cars either. There are 2 things MB has to do to really have a chance to recapture my business. The first is to offer similar options at at least a ballpark price equivalent. I don't mind paying a little more for a similarly equiped MB, but I do mind paying many, many thousands more. And the reliability and cost of maintanence needs to improve. If MB expects to maintain the perception they are better made than the Japanese pretenders, they need to start making them better and more reliable.
  • ghaysghays Posts: 8
    "Are there things the C-class offers that the ES doesn't .... of course" - you did not list the one most likely to change or end your life: safety. There is no comparison. Is this factor not worth $2500/year (are you paying people to check your tire pressure?).

    Sorry, I am not dumping on you, it is your money. The "tightness and ride" you perceive is only a daily affirmation of the safety and structural integrity that Toyota dreams of.

    Am I an MB loyalist? You bet. And I plan to be for my whole, long life.
  • sddlwsddlw Posts: 361
    There is no arguing that MB has led the industry in safety innovations. The whole concept of crumple zones was a MB innovation. But I really don't think you can defend the implication that MBs are safe and Lexus (or many other MFGRs) are not. With all due homeage to MBs innovations, the competition has greatly advanced in this area as well, and the industry as a whole is a lot more conscientious than they were only a short while ago. My ES has both front and side airbags, crumple zones, etc, as do many, many other competitors and did quite well in the crash tests if I remember correctly.

    Please don't take me for a MB basher who has never experienced the joys of driving an MB. They are wonderful cars, and I do, on occasion, miss our "Es". I don't think I'll ever get my wife out of her SL. And I did consider a C-class on this last go-round. But I just could not get past what a 6-cyl, fully loaded C was going to be out the door, plus anticipated cost of ownership once the warranty was up. And really, that is the issue... Why is it that Toyota can sell a Corolla for $12K and the thing will run for 150Kmi with only minimal cost of maintanence, and they can translate that into their lux and near lux cars that sell for significantly less than the European counterparts, but MB, BMW, and Jag cannot seem to figure out how to build a car that doesn't need constant attention after it's first couple of years on the road?
  • Someone mentioned that it cost $2500 - $3000/yr for maintenance. For others of you who have owned the 'C' class for a while are you averaging approximately $2500 - $3000/yr for maintenance.

    I have spoken to friends who own both the C and E class and say they have not spent much for maintenance. I spoke to my dentist who owns a 1986 E class and over the years she just had one major expense. She said some seals (not entirely sure what that is) in her engine had hardened and spent about $2000 to repair it.

    Are my friends just plain lucky or are there others of you who have not had to pay big bucks for maintenance?
  • tomjavatomjava Posts: 136
    MB used to make great cars with great quality. In fact, I still own and drive 1989 300E with almost 120k and still running well.

    Today MB is horrible. Look at S-class uses cheapo materials. Constant fuel pump problem on E and M-class fuel pump, stupid key issues on c-class. MB is no longer dominate JD powers initial quality. Even BMW is getting better QA, before in 1980s BMW quality was poor.

    The fact: MB is going downhill with QA while others such AUDI, BMW, LEXUS offer better QA period.
  • I thought I'd offer my $0.02 worth.
    A few years back, the TV show 60 Minutes did a segment on automobile safety. They focused in on the high fatality rate of people whose cars were rear-ended by cars traveling at a substantial speed-not bumper kissing. What happens is that the front seat backs break their locking mechanism. The seat then reclines and the people are thrust back into the rear or out the hatch back window. 60 Minutes stated they tested most of the high end cars and only one passed, by not having the seats break: MB.
    I'm not saying this is scientifific proof, but it got my attention. Also, as a mechanical engineer, there's nothing that comes close to the engineering of a MB. But, that's my opinion.

    John W.
  • sapparosapparo Posts: 68
    Today Lexus is the new gold standard of the industry. Japanese precision, quality & reliability is the best in the business. Do I like Lexus? You bet. Would I buy an M.B. or other German make? Never!! Over-priced, poor reliablity one just pays for the designer badge.
  • kenyeekenyee Posts: 738
    I'd agree that the other makers have gotten better at passing crash tests.

    However, MB still tests a lot more crash types than other makers except perhaps for Volvo.
    Watch the ML Stayin' Alive commercial. MB did rollover testing on an SUV and uses the video footage for a commercial. Lexus did a similiar commercial, but didn't show the rollover. You know what you can infer from that...

    Take a peek under your hood and look at the strength of the frame/bumper members. Go compare an MB E w/ a Lexus LS400 or even a lowly built-in-Alabama ML. Now ask yourself if you'd rather trade off a bit more safety for a bit of reliability? Ditto for cost. It's not a simple yes/no answer nor is shopping for the "right" car for you. Be glad we have a lot of choices to fit *each* person's needs and desires...
  • 404c404c Posts: 146
    Although I have no doubt that Mercedes-Benz are about the safest cars available (forgetting for the moment the Renault Laguna;-)), that is not an excuse for them to downplay the importance of reliability. In comparison to reliability, safety is of direct benefit to the relatively few owners that end up in serious accidents. An unreliable car is a burden for EVERY owner day in and day out. Mercedes-Benz should therefore strive to improve their reliability ratings to equal Lexus, which has caught up to them in most other respects.

    About the Lexus SUV commercial, about all we can safely infer from the fact that it does not show a rollover test is that they did not do one for the ad. Anything else would be a risky, possibly libellous, speculation.

  • kenyeekenyee Posts: 738
    Can't say they didn't do a rollover test, but the fact that they left it out lets you make your own inferences and that's something marketing departments don't like letting you do ;-)
  • tomjavatomjava Posts: 136
    I don't see any advantages owning C-class compare to BMW 3 series. I can't understand why MB charges so much of this mini S-class. MB has saved tons of money by carbon copying S-class. Plus C-class produces at So. Africa which has much lower labor cost than Germany.

    The only explaination is major shareholders pressure MB to make as much profit as possible in order to cover its huge loses of buying Dodge.
  • benz747benz747 Posts: 91
    Guys, here is the information

    my 2002 C 240 is having problems with Trunk, and was first taken on 10th Oct 2001, they figured out it may due to faulty plate, they placed order for new PART and I took back my CAR, they called me today to fix it with new part.

    Today morning I dropped the CAR in anticipation of getting fixed, as they expect a day job, they drop me at my work place rather giving loaner, unfortunately the new Plate didn't work and they has to place an order for set of LOCKS, (all doors and Trunk) they ask me to take CAR back and they told me they will inform me when the parts are in. I requested to see SERVICE manager who was out at that time, so I went and see my sales person, who acted very fast and gave me a loaner in a perfect condition and treated me well.
    hopefully they will fix the problem in earliest
    my new Loaner is 2000 C 230 SE (has anybody heard about this Model before?)
  • nycanyca Posts: 232
    What are you spending $2500 a year on? I don't own an MB, but I have two German cars (BMW, VW). All my friends warned me about high repair costs, etc. I don't see it frankly. It helps that I am a DIYer, changing oil and brakes and basic filters can save you a bunch with any car.

    As far as Lexus goes, yes they make a nice car. But its front wheel drive, and frankly I'm giving up on front wheel drive now. My last two daily drivers have been front drive (Honda, VW), nice cars, but I just don't like the way front drive cars handle. I want rwd, and the reason BMW and MB cling to rwd if that they know the cars handle better. Even though fwd drive are cheaper to manufacture, they stick with rwd for a reason.
This discussion has been closed.