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Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans
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I think this means that the heater box [which contains the circulating cooling fluid, which is after all the heating medium] is leaking just enough engine coolant into the air system to give you both the smells and the unwanted extra moisture. It's probably a very small seepage, or you'd see other symptoms [like coolant loss and such]. See if you can get a dealer to give it a check.
Tell the dealer to do a pressure test on the cooling system. They should pump it up to maybe 30 psi and then leave the car for a while if the pressure does not begin to drop immediately. The test equipment is like a high-quality bicycle pump that has a pressure gauge attached to it. It attaches to the radiator cap. All decent garages have one (if yours doesn't, they are idiots, go somewhere else). There should be ZERO pressure drop over that time. If there is some, that proves that a leak exists.
Then the question is: where is the pressure drop occuring, but your sense of smell tells the dealer what to change. Plus maybe the interior will smell of coolant by then. So, because the car's under warranty, they should put a new heater core in, no questions asked at that point.
If you were out of the warranty period, I'd be tempted to try a Rube Goldberg solution before busting my a** changing a heater core (they're usually awful). The Rube solution calls for you to get a rad sealant such as the General Motors brown tablets, grind 'em into a fine powder and put it in the radiator. It just may work. I cured a moderately leaky radiator gasket on my 180,000 mile 1989 Peugeot that way - the alternative was a new rad or an expensive rad tank seal change, on a car that's worth $14.99 or thereabouts. This solution has held for 2 years and 40,000 miles.
You should sort this problem out before the car is out of warranty though. If you were to pay an M-B dealer to do it you'd be into the big bills. And as I wrote earlier, if you did it yourself you'd use all of your blue vocabulary up, and then some, changing the little swine.
Good luck,
Mike T.
2002 M-B C 230 K
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
1989 Peugeot 405
Mike I believe your approach with the sealant may work, but I would be worried about plugging up something else that was designed to stay open. No problem on a '73 Chevy as I've done in the past, but as an owner of a 2000 C230 Sport myself, I'd be hesitant to try that approach on a newer car. I agree that is a good last-ditch effort alternative.
My advice, bring it to the dealer and have them do their job - testing the cooling system and subsequently replacing all defective parts. They should do this without question if you bought the car in the US and have not yet reached the 50,000 mile warranty expiration mark.
Good luck, and I'll be interested to hear how it goes as with the same year and model, I may be faced with a similar problem in the future.
- Paul
And, when moisture is left in the system all of the time, that probably could cause bad smelling air from bacteria and fungus. I heard in the past that at the start of winter when temperatures drop, people get colds, and it is not just coincidence that drivers turn on their car heaters for the first time in months at that time, i.e., bacteria in the car heaters can cause colds.
I don't know if this is true, but a cottage industry in health claims due to bad air in buildings has sprung up over the last 3-5 years and I suppose there must be some science behind all this.
above car with C3, cd changer, sunroof, htd seats in metallic paint: $34,990 includes dest charge. Sound fair or not fair to anyone..??
That's considerably less than TMV!
www.calstarmercedes.com
818-246-1190
*Does not include government fees or taxes.
I'm looking for a dealer/parts department that discounts MB OEM parts. A particularly onerous pot hole damaged two of my rims on a recent trip to NY. So now my barely broken-in 2002 C320 (with only 9,000 miles) has a vibration that I cannot live with.
I'm trying to avoid paying full dealer price for replacement wheels. If anyone knows of a dealer (in the DC area or who will ship) that sells parts at cost-plus, I'd appreciate the referral.
Thanks,
Paul
http://www.stockwheels.com/index.html
http://www.aaarims.com/index.html
These will involve shipping, of course, but will still save you money over new stock. AAA last month had an "overstock" special on W203 sedan wheels - check the overstock sale part of the website to see if they are still available - the price was under $200 a wheel, including shipping. [I'll try for the direct link here:...]
http://www.aaarims.com/cgi-bin/overstock/web_store.cgi
Also, if you are an MBCA member, there are other discounts available from various MB dealers.
I know where you get some for 150.00 each. Email me for help. Rainers@minn.net
I asked earlier about buying a factory-warrantied lemon from Ebay. All responses were negative. I took your advice and did not buy it. However, I still think it is a good buy if you want to keep it for a while (since selling a lemon is a bit difficult than selling $0.10 lemonades ;-)
Anyway, instead, I ended up with a clear title 1999 C 230 Kompressor. I like it so far (the first month), but have some questions not seemed to be discussed here before:
1. Previous discussions show that to hang the front license plate, one needs to get 4 holes drilled in the front bumper. My questions (a): what do I expect to pay at the dealership for drilling and mounting bracket? (b) would any universal size plate bought from autozone do?
2. The dreaded snow tire question, which is debated to death, but I would appreciate a simple answer: (a) for Omaha, where about 3-4 storms of 4 inches plus in Winter are expected, does a reasonably cautious driver need snow tires on this rear wheel drive vehicle? (b) do you put any stock in putting sand bags in trunk as a secondary option to mounting snow tires? (No, snow chains are out of question for their hassel).
If they say a given set of wheels will fit, they will. We have used them [wheel/tire packages] on Hondas and Toyotas, with only one wheel/tire needing to be rebalanced on a road-force machine to get runout corrected. And TireRack paid for the rebalance...
They know their stuff. I ordered it through the web and latter on the day, a sales guy called me to confirm that is what I wanted to ordered and if I had any questions. It came mounted and balanced, OEM M-B center cap and bolts for these wheels. All I had to do was take off the M-B wheels/tires, put these new ones on and torque the bolts (very important). I recommend you get the alloy wheels. They look better than steel wheels, with or without wheel covers. The winter tires work great in the snow. I live in Minnesota.
This is what I ordered.
Wheels: Mille Miglia Bello 16x7.5
Tires: Dunlop Winter Sport M2 in 205/55-16 (OEM Size).
Total cost: $1,000
I am wondering if my C has a "non-USA" frame in it. Can anyone comment on how their gas cap fits in its filler lid frame??
Thanks.
I have some minor problems: front center cup holder won't fold down and loud noise when retracting the rear shade (sounds like the motor isn't cutting off until well after it is seated). My gas cap frame is okay, by the way.
I assume they will take care of these things, but wondered what others experiences have been. Thanks.
Apparently, even though some "C"s are assembled in So. America, they're considered 100% "Made in Germany" because every part comes from Germany (I don't know where the Brazilian "C"s are painted). By comparison, in the production facility in Alabama where MLs are assembled, only the most expensive elements for the ML come from Germany, like the engine, drive train, electronics, &etc., whereas the body parts are made in the U.S.
I read recently that German workers cost 50% more and are less productive compared to U.S. workers. Using Brazilian labor probably offers an even greater economic value than US workers.
Once "C" body parts are made in Brazil instead of just being assembled like a Heathkit radio, MB will have a competitive product to offer West Coast buyers, i.e., a better made "C" at a lower price. I hear the Brazilian-assembled "C"s are actually better than from Germany . . . but, I'd want a discount.
Yes, the Brazilian Cs are made from knock-down kits, which means no parts are fabricated on-site. Don't know about painting, but I do know that assembly standards are the same worldwide. Why a "discount"? Good thing Honda, Toyota, Mitsu, Subaru, Nissan, and yes, M-Class owners don't feel the same way...
All right-hand drive Cs are made in South Africa - I rather doubt UK buyers have much bargaining power derived from that fact.
Just be prepared: make sure the car feels right before driving too far from the dealership. This is also a discussion we've had before, most recently on one of the other C-Class boards. Tires that go much beyond 5k-7.5k miles are at risk for problems if you try to rotate them; this is one reason MB no longer wants to pay for it...BMW has dropped it from their service recommendations altogether, because they know that waiting for the first service is too long.
I do all our tire rotations myself in the garage at 3000 mile intervals...many tire stores will do it for you for a minimal or even no charge, but make sure they use the correct bolt torque and use a real hand torque wrench, not a gun, to tighten the bolts.
"Otto" (99 C280) has been reasonably reliable lately. Needed tyres at 36K, replaced OEM Goodyear RS/A's with Michelin MXV4+, very nice ride. My windscreen wiper shuddering had me stumped for a while. Tried Rainx, Bon Ami, etc etc but nothing. It was finally cured by using a Bosch Microedge blade bought from local discount parts store -- no more skip! Elec sunroof still occasionally sticky after a rain - but usually clears up.
Ok, question for you guys out there; been daydreaming about the perfect car -- you know Mini Cooper S, new E class, Diablo, etc, when I stumbled on the fact that the '03 C 320 comes with -- drum roll -- a standard 6 speed transmission!
This would make it (for me) the perfect car. I knew the C240 came with a six speed but was ever hoping for bigger engine with a standard shift...
Is there anyone on the board with a standard shift, either 240 or 320, that would care to comment on it?
Would be curious about:
- clutch uptake
- shift feel
- throttle response (not, strictly speaking, subject to auto vs. standard but sometimes I notice the throttle is a little too slow sometimes on the slushbox)
Thanks in advance all!
rich
And, for the most "perfect car," that probably would be the upcoming E-Class Kompressor-AMG (nearly 500 hp) with the same active shifting and also with semi-active suspension.
I found the notchiness to be noticeable on the car I drove, but not a show-stopper. It is certainly not in BMW's class, never mind Honda's, but still OK.
Keep in mind that in this car [as opposed to a 3er], the manual will make the car a harder sell at resale time. How much this matters, as usual, depends entirely on how long you plan to keep the car.
Car before Otto was a 92 Accord EX 5 Spd, driven 98K. Before that was an 89 Accord LX 5 Spd, driven 103K. And before that was a 85 Civic Lx, driven 106K...you get the idea(!). After moving back to the states in 98, and finally having the wherewithal to buy one of these Silver Arrows, the only real thing I had to swallow was the automatic in the W201 C. Great car, and even the autobox was not so bad after all. But now with the manual in the C320, plus all the other bits etc its starting to look better and better. I drove a C180 (?) last year in Germany from Avis on a business trip for 600+ km. I personally did not notice the notchiness (frankly, my first time on the Autobahn kept my attention I can tell you:) just a reasonably smooth shifting 6 speed.
Mac - Yes, please, would not have any problem driving the C32 (I suppose!) its just that I'd have to separate from north of $50K of my hard-earned bucks to get one...just a little out of my league. The E class will remain out of reach for a long period of time.
Current outlook from she-who-must-be-obeyed is that I need a car to go 10 years; hence the interest in a 6 speed for an Otto replacement. So resale value is less of a concern for the 6 speed. The reason for thinking about replacing Otto is (strangely enough) driving a new Mini Cooper S (we have an old Mini) in the summer; what a hoot. Woke me up to how much fun it is to "drive" the car vs. letting the autobox do it for you.
Thanks Guys, really appreciate the comments...
rich
rich
I have owned my 6-speed C-240 for over 1 year, and before that I drove a Porsche 944 maunal. My commentary would be this.
The C-240 does have a noticeable notchiness between 1st and 2nd, but it is nothing that a good driver can't handle. Otherwise the gearbox is incredibly precise. You can very quickly and easily feel where the next gear is and there is no sloppiness like japanese gearboxes. The clutch is firm and provides some feedback... not even close to the amount the old Porsche gave though. Spend some time in Germany and you will quickly realize that almost every car sold there is a manual, the engineers know what they are doing.
The most interesting thing is the interaction between the ESP, Traction control and the 6-speed. They don't seem to interfere... one could imagine the traction control applying the brakes on ice thus causing the engine to stall because of the manual. This has never happened to me and I have tried to confuse it many times. Another wonder of German engineering I suppose.
I really like the 6-speed. Sitting in 6th gear at 3000rpm and 80mph is quite nice. Fuel economy on the highway is 29.6 mpg over 380 miles at 72 mph average. Of course a quick jaunt through the twisty back roads is equally appealing. I can say that stop and go traffic sucks more than a 35 gallon shopvac, although I did commute through Boston for a year.
As for the people who are worried about resale value, I say that is bunk. The 6-speed is $1200 less than the auto initially... and if you invest that money for your 4 years of ownership even conservatively (8%) you can "afford" over $1600 of lost resale price... or somewhere close to %10 of the resale value. Do you really think the difference is that big? And remember that if you find the right buyer, they may view it as more desirable to have a stick...
I wish the 6-speed was available in the C-320 when I bought. I think that car is a huge value at 34K.
On another subject. I always try to find a way to check up on the honesty of a dealers service department. For instance if they are suppose to rotate the tires, mark one of them with some chalk on the inside wall. After the appointment see if the tire has moved. You can also do some other things like check the levels of all the fluids immediately before you take the car in and then repeat it afterwards. Keeping service departments honest is very difficult... it helps if they know that there is a chance that they have an educated consumer on their hands.
Thanks!
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BTW, I've had my C240 with C2, auto, and CD for 13 months. Except for an axle issue the day after I took delivery, the car has been 100% problem-free. It has been flawless. I am more satisfied with this car than I ever thought possible.
I tighten mine with a hand torque wrench anytime a wheel comes off the car and then recheck the torque after 100-150 miles to ensure the are on correctly. I do it at times right in the dealer's parking lot after a service.
Is improper torquing the end of the world - IMHO no. But one set of rotors too soon easily justifies the cost of a torque wrench.
Good Luck.
The "free" car wash by the dealer was great too, and I got to drive a '02 C240 as a loaner. Due to the design and familiarity I still prefer my '00, but I can see areas where there have been definite improvements to the car (i.e., tilting steering column - not only telescopic, digital speedometer, MPG gauge, etc.).
- Paul
Most common result is overtightening, but the worst possible outcome is uneven tightening - almost certain warped rotors and vibrations will be the result.
I too follow the regimen that Rob talks about - I never drive the car away from a service in which the wheels have been disturbed without using my own torque wrench on the spot, and then follow up with a retorque [as recommended by all car makers] sometime during the next couple of hundred miles. [ A side benefit is that you KNOW you'll be able to take a wheel off in an emergency - some shops have been known to tighten them so much that you literally can't generate enough force to move the bolts if you are a small person. ]
Quick internet search revealed nothing interesting, just wondering if any of you Benz watchers had any info.
Question is related to "when" for W203 C Class purchase; info I've found to date indicates W204 will come along in 2007 or so. So one could expect a mild face lift or styling freshening, and possibly engine tweaking in the middle of the product cycle (2001-2007).
thanks all...rj