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Losing your hair and that's why you stopped there? Just a guess...
Mike, once at my local Olds/Chevy dealer a lady thought my car was the nicest looking Impala she'd ever seen. I then explained to her it was because it was an Aurora...
#4194 of 4197 Well guys?? by 800wattaurora
Garnes, rjs, blk97,musclecar, henry? Yah, Henry you want my slightly used Corsa.
The interior on the new Aurora does seem a bit more refined than the classic. It's just one heck of a car for the money. That engine is more refined as well. I'll have to show him RJS's Corsa pictures and take him for a ride in my car for sure.
I didn't respond right away because I was sure you'd come to your senses :,)
How did you determine "No codes are coming up"? The reason I ask is that I have been researching code readers and scanners (ordered an AutoXray 10150 last week). To my surprise, I discovered there are significant differences in the ability of different units to pull up historical codes -- some can, others cannot.
There are two types of backfire -- intake side and exhaust side. I know from experience that a leaky fuel-pressure regulator can cause one helluva backfire in the intake manifold. So can mistimed camshafts, but that wouldn't be intermittent.
I'm not sure that popping in the exhaust side is really backfire, but it's often called that. A cylinder misfiring and dumping unburned gasoline into a hot exhaust manifold or cat will cause that problem. I'd be very surprised if the OBDII emission controls didn't pick it up. As mentioned before, plugs, wires, coils, ignition module could be the culprit. I also wonder if a bad injector could cause the condition.
If you do sell, I'd be interested in the RSM 80mm throttle body and mounting plate since I have not ordered mine yet. I don't remember if you have the RSM strut and shock tower braces.
Secondly, if you do decide to get rid of the car, I'll take the corsa. Heck, I might as well take the whole car. I could keep the mods and drill out the engine to 4.6L. The mods to the engine would most likely fix the backfire.
Henri
a) used-car values are low right now
b) Oldsmobile used car values are especially low
c) there's something wrong with your car.
So, taking that into account, you've got to find a competent mechanic to help you out. Not sure if you'd come up to Milwaukee, but one of my techs has a buddy whose business is engine repair/rebuilding.
I can relate to the hurt feelings/pain when your car is not working right/lets you down. I just went through that with my Aurora after my rear crankshaft seal leak of a month ago. I contemplated selling the car, but, even with all of the incentives, discounts, GMS pricing, GM card rebates, trading in my '98 for a new '03 was wayyy too expensive to consider (I could maybe get what I owe for my '98, and don't have any cash to put down, meaning I'd have to finance for 5 years (4 years longer than my remaining loan) at $100/mo. more than I'm paying now.
You can't just give up without giving it the old college try. Ask around at work for a competent third-party mechanic/don't just take your car to the Olds dealer ($$$$$), especially if your extended warranty is gone...
Hope this helps,
--Robert
"This sounds like a similar problem like we were having with a GTP at the shop. Wayne doesn't have the diagnostic tools for this. But it sounds like it could be a bad coil or a bad ignition module. We had the same issue with no codes, but yet the car wasn't running right. Although the computer is suppose to pick up problems and turn the engine light on, it doesn't always happen. This was that issue where nobody else but Foster Pontiac could figure it out. I would think a dealer with the right equipment would be able to find the problem."
"For one thing, the M3 has the most cold-blooded engine we've encountered in quite some time. The highly-tuned six sometimes stalled at the first starting attempt. And often when it managed to run on the first attemt, it spit and bucked for several seconds before settling down."
I realize they are posting some critisizm of a BMW, but look at how they do it. They call the engine cold-blooded like it is just some determined professional, and they call it a "highly tuned" engine that stalls and bucks. That doesn't sound very well tuned to me... Think they would use the same language if a Corvette stalled and bucked?
"The casual driver will also be shocked by the M3's appetite for motor oil. Our car consumed the first quart in less than 1900 miles, and by its first oil change at 12,500 miles - a service interval determined by the onboard maintenance system - this ultimate driving machine had used three more quarts." Then they go on to mention how it requires one of two special brands of 10w-60 that can only be found at the dealer for $9 a quart... They also go on to mention that there have been actual cases of M3 engines failing because owners used the wrong oil. I guess you have to plan all your trips around regular stops at Bimmer dealerships...
Apparenly if I am shocked by that oil consumption, it is only because I am a casual driver and not worthy of such a tuned machine...
Then mention the climate control system failing, and the door seal malfunctioning and staining black the leather door trim.
They conclude by saying "A bit too high-strung in some ways, the M3 has too much sporting flavor to suit many drivers. But if you want full-fledged high-performance sports-car capabilities in an everyday-usable package for four adults, the M3 is a terrific choice." I guess stalling every time you start it, and guzzling oil is just sporting flavor. I can't help but wonder if that's what they'd call it if a domestic car did it.
As Robert said it, Going to give it the old college try! Not old for me, turned 22 two weeks ago and I'm am graduation next fall. So my current car thinking now is that there has to be good spark so problem has to be fuel related. Could be clogged injector(s) my dad asked his auto teacher at his voc. school what he thought. First he recomended getting the fuel infectors cleaned or replaced, he mentioned he could clean them out for me, going to look into that. This teacher has worked on northstars before and suggested to me that the air/fuel ratio probabley isn't right/optimal with my mods. He highly recommend that I either get the PCM re-programed to adjust for the extra air i'm shoving down my 4.0. Needs more fuel or get an adjustable FPR and raise the pressure slighly. He told me I could pinch the fuel return line for couple of seconds to raise the line pressure and see if more pressure will stop the backfire. He knew that the aftermarket selection is narrow for these cars, he definitly thinks it's running lean, "you need more fule kid" If you can't find either make larger orifices in the fuel injectors with a drill or something if you can't find a higher cfm injector. . Well with that info, I called my corsa installer shop who is hot rod shop and the owner said his "chip guy" should be able to help me out. He said they custom program every car and have access to the decoding of obd-II. So that's a big one for the good side. I guess I'll just take it to the dealer and pay the $95 inspection fee, hopefully they find whats wrong and it be covered by the warrenty then inspection fee is on them. That would be great, but very doubtful, things haven't been going my way in the car department.
Thanks for always being here for me guys!
I have to comment here. I think all that stuff is a bunch of B.S! I have all the same mods you do and I have no problems. RJS is using the K&N and has the Corsa, so except for the TB he is very similar too.
When I ran my dyno's, with the K&N, box mod, and TB I also ran F/A ratios. Guess what - they did not change. I do not see how exhaust would change anything. How in the world does less resistance to pushing out the exhaust equate to "more air coming in"??. The exhaust mod just means more power goes to the crank and is not wasted working to push out the exhaust. Also remember "more air" as far as I understand, really means more dense air. As the cylinder goes down for the fill stroke the volume of the air is the same - mods or not. The difference is how dense - the mass. So I don't see how the exhaust mod helps get denser air into the engine.
Not to confuse things, but as a side note, I can see how an intake mod makes for a tougher job for the greater mass of air to be expelled (perhaps exponentially related to the density of the air too) thus making an exhaust mod very beneficial when making intake mods.
Sorry, I would not waste my time or money exploring computer reprogramming, or leaning out the car.
The MAF can read the air flow. Your car is really only mildly modded - it's not that big of a difference in air flow. The only thought I have on your set-up as it relates to air flow is this: your cold air intake uses a duct that is smaller diameter than the MAF. It only expands to the full diameter at the boot. So, it's possible that the little wire that senses the air flow (it's in the middle) could see higher velocities because the air is channeled to a smaller diameter down the middle. This would make the MAF "think" there is more air than there really is and you would get a corresponding higher fuel feed to match. You'd be richer.
I'm not saying that this is happening, but it's a thought. BTW - your car did not have these troubles earlier with these mods - right? If it was the mods and A/F, you should have had this all along.
If you are truly concerned about A/F, I'd do another dyno first to check it before you mess with programming.
Well those are my thoughts. Maybe I'm off, but I do think there is a LOT of hocus-pocus from people that work on cars, but perhaps don't know or understand the physics of what is happening. Who knows, I probably am missing something, but for now, I say it's not the mods. If the A/F is indeed bad, maybe the MAF is on the blink. That's possible. I've got an extra one that was "recalibrated" to original A/F. Remember the Granatelli? It was reprogrammed to lean the car out. Power dropped. I sent it back to have the A/F set back to original. It sits in the box now.
Hey, maybe something you changed out at 80k just went bad - it's defective. I'd check all the stuff the other guys have mentioned.
Good luck.
As for programed ECU if I can get this fixed, I'll definitly see what kind of "chip" these guys can come up with.
You should send them a letter. Really. They need to hear this. They will probably issue another "bad gas" excuse like they did for the G35 and some other cars not performing so well (even though some of the cars in the comparison did not seem to be affected by the "bad gas" as much as others - and they offered this excuse AFTER letters came in). Who knows, they may even blame the incomprehensible oil usage on the gas too - after all, they think their readers are stupid enough to believe all the other lame-o stuff.
The bottom line is that the imports can do no wrong and objectivity is a foolish dream. That's what these guys buy. I guess if I worked there and I was reviewing an Aurora, or an Impala or really anything Olds or Chevy, I'd be slanted too. But I don't think I'd be delusional like these guys are. Also, I believe the people that work at these magazines work in an echo chamber and are basically influenced by their peers. What, trash the M3 for it's obvious failings or the Acura for some cheapo interior parts??? I might get questioned on that. After all, everybody know only the domestics have cheap plastic for the interiors - right?
BTW, I have no idea if this is true, but I got an e-mail that indicated Car & Driver (Vivendi?) and Road & Track are French owned. Hmmmm. Perhaps yet another reason not to buy these magazines.
Most of our membership appreciates being able to come here and talk about cars without having to think about the very hard things that seem to be happening in the world.
Thanks.
http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0304/04/b01-127967.htm
I've driven both of them and the are sweet rides. A little small for my taste, but you can't argue with the performance if that's what you're looking for.
I think Car and Driver got a POS car.
Oh, and C&D is a very biased car magazine. They do the same biased reviewing when comparing Ford vs. Chevy.
Maybe it was tweaked a bit too much for the tests?? Just a cynical possibility.
P.S. I hear you about the ownership. I doubt I'll renew them, but I probably won't renew Motor Trend either. It isn't as bad, but I still get sick of it. In the April issue, they were talking about the Auto shows and this was their bottom line for the Pontiac G6 (likely the Grand Am's direction): "In terms of styling, at least, finally a bold competitor for the Accord. Will the quality, handling, fit and finish be as good?" Finally a styling competitor for the Accord???? Are they freaking kidding? And as far as their little question at the end, it sounds as though they've already answered it in their minds. And how hard would it be to match the Accords handling? Give me a break... It's like they just think up some sentence that might sound thoughtful or impressive and then stick the word "Accord" or "Camry" in there. Don't worry about whether it is accurate or anything... Very journalistic...
But really, I strongly suspect that the writers and reviewers are indeed import owners. So, they test or compare a bunch of cars and I think it is going to be very hard to admit a domestic car performed or is a nice or better as what you have in the garage. Everybody wants to think their car purchase (especially new ones) is superior in some way. I wish all the staff would disclose what they own as you read the car reviews. It would be interesting.
Yeah - Accord styling. Where?
That's why I really don't put a lot of stock into owner surveys - especially for very high end cars. You just spent 60k - and to admit you are dissatisfied with something is equal to admitting you spent 60k on the wrong car. That's not going to happen much.
cheers
But on the other hand, a Road & Track or Car & Driver review is the closest most of us will ever come to getting behind the wheel of a half million dollar Ferrari, or some other incredibly priced example of automotive lore.
(Can you believe that they are actually PAID to drive cars like that? Man, I'm in the wrong job.)
Of course writers are not the only ones to be less than candid about a vehicle's failings. As a past member of the Maserati fraternity I am only too well aware that almost any reference to the many inadequacies of those cars will result in an outpouring of protest in the discussion groups.
Chris
With this mindset how can these writers possibly appreciate a large American car such as the Aurora? Fortunately we do!
Chris
Automobile (sometime back now) did a test of the Seville and Deville (DTS). They said that it was as good or better than an S-class Mercedes.
The Aurora has made it into a number of comparison test too, but always with the sports sedans from europe. As a result it has not fared well with the much smaller cars.
The differences in handling may not be much. I owned an 84 Corvette that I picked up used. It handled very nicely on a good (new) highway, but on poorer highways the ride was rough and you had to really work to keep the car on the road. I sold it and then later on picked up a used 86 Corvette (with the Z51 suspension package, which the 84 did not have). This car was much softer riding and did not handle quite as well. This not to say that the 86 handled bad. On less than perfect roads it was much easier to drive. The tuned port injected engine had a lot more performance than the 84's throttle body injectors.
I think that both of these cars sold very well during the 1995 model year. But I think that the Aurora connection to Oldsmobile was downplayed and may well have resulted in the misconception that Aurora's are some other car (toyota/lexus/infinity ...)
--Robert
You all have some very interesting points. It is true that auto mags are good for the thrillers about twin-turbo Corvettes and million dollar Ferraris.
Interesting about the Aurora ads too. I'm sure back in 1994 there were a reasonable amount of them, but what about subsequent years? I'd bet even by 1996 they dropped off a bit, though I don't really recall. I do know that I can only recall seeing one single ad for the new 2001 Aurora in Motor Trend. In fact, I specifically remember seeing it because the styling was exciting, and I'd always thought the classic Aurora was pretty cool. I was a pretty avid car mag reader then too (back then I read every article of MT, C&D, and R&T). I can't recall ever seeing a television commercial. I don't count those sorry "people are still buying Oldsmobiles, so apparently it isn't as stupid as it seems" ads because they are soo terrible and don't focus on any particular product. What the heck were they thinking with the "wonder why you see so many Oldsmobiles on the road?" commercials that showed the Bravada and Aurora? I bet most people were seeing them for the first time in that commercial...
Most people do not know what torque is, they also don't know what horsepower is either, but understand that more horsepower should mean better performance. Except that it does not always mean that. For example, I think that the 2.8 liter BMW 3-series would out perform the 3.2 liter C-class Mercedes. This new 3.6 should be an interesting engine. How the CTS performs will be a good indication of how good the engine really is.
Look here if you haven't seen it:
Mazda RX-8
I don't think I'll trade the Aurora for one, but I might "pretend" and take one for a spin....
They can rev extremely high. That HP comes at some nose-bleed high rpm and still no torque at probably some very high rpm as well. But it's still impressive for that little engine.
I still say that where and when the power is available is as important if not more important than peak numbers.
My only question is why make it only 1.3 liters??? Is a 3 or 4 liter rotary prohibitive for some reason?? I have no idea. There must be some reason or else we would see 500 HP rotary engines all over. Time for one of you gear head experts to check in here with some info about rotary engines.
At the risk of being busted by the "off topic police"... my early 7 did have a mediocre accel until about 4K RPMs when it hit neck-snapping momentum until redline. I think the later models enjoyed a flatter power curve. It's also extremely easy to over rev those engines (no up/down piston movement) and they're equipped w/ a buzzer if you do hit the redline.
Finally, the phenomenal power to size ratio is one of their advantages. Small under hood area and much less weight.
That's all. We now return you to you're regularly scheduled Aurora board....
Anyway, they had a Final 500 there. I parked near it so I could make a solid judgement of the color. It was cloudy and drizzling, though, so not much sun. My car looked substantially lighter in color than the CE. It looked really dark and brown. Like a reddish brown. I like my color much better.
I've mentioned in the past my car shifts just slightly firmly. Well, it was smooth as silk on the way home. I had noticed in the past that after the first dealer (I went to a different one this time) had "scanned" the computer, that the shifting was smooth again. I then suggested to them that they reprogram the PCM because perhaps it wasn't dealing with the "learning" properly. They just ignored me. I'll see if it starts to come back now that the PCM has actually been reprogrammed. It wasn't a big deal, though.
While I was waiting, I noticed they keep all the sales-staff training videos out. I asked if they minded if I watched one. I watched like a 20 minute presentation on the 2002 Aurora. They also had 1999, 2001, and 2003. Plus a comparo video for 2001. Man, would I love to have those in my library...