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I don't know that everyone wants it as the base engine for the 2004 redesign.
16,000 have been replaced in the last 2 years alone.
Buyer beware.
I am going to have to enhance my sound system. It sounds like a very cheap system. The sound sounds very hollow.
The first thing I would question is why is an '02 SLS available with 18K? There must be some reason that the former owner changed vehicles after only one year. That is slightly higher than average miles; of course, if they were highway miles, it's probably OK.
I've had some "niggling" problems, all fixed satisfactorily under warranty. The AM radio reception started to go bad, so they gave me a new radio (Bose with NAV.) A tire pressure sensor went bad; it was R&R'd. The trunk leaked; it was fixed. There was a slight misalignment in the trunk lid that was wearing paint off in an unseen area; it was re-aligned and touched up.
I did drive an '02 CLS before deciding on the STS and I think the big differences would be:
1. Smoother ride in the SLS.
2. Softer seats in the SLS but less lateral support in spirited cornering.
3. Engine designed for REGULAR gas (don't know about the TL.)
4. SLS is an overall bigger (and heavier) vehicle
5. Average MPG for me is 16-17; higher on trips.
6. HUGE trunk.
7. I wouldn't be surprised if the insurance premium was less in the SLS; mine went down from the '99 CLK320 I had.
8. Styling preference would be a matter of taste.
9. BOSE sound system in the STS is pretty damn good; don't know about the TL or SLS.
Now, the BIGGIE; if you're going to hold on to it; GET A GM WARRANTY!
You know about the infamous Acura weak transmission. Well, as far as I know, the weakness in the SLS is the Northstar engine's propensity for developing a main oil seal leak sometime after 40K miles. It may not occur until 60K, but even though this engineering flaw was supposed to have been fixed, I have seen no evidence that it has.
I'm only leasing my STS for another year, and will probably not keep it (have the hots for an E500), but if I did, I would not take a chance on that oil leak. The engine has to be removed to fix it and it's about a $2K dealer repair.
Good luck with your decision. Hope I've been some help.
Bob
(The "subiefan" name refers to my wife's '02 Outback LTD)
I plan to drive an EX V6 (when I can find one) to see how well it goes, but right now the EX is winning.
However, I should add that the 02EX is not very impressive. What a difference a year makes...
Oh yeah, and it just got best pick in the crast test.
CR Expert -- Jake Fisher
"I'd take the Accord in an instant. It's simply a better car than the TL. It has a smoother ride, more power, and feels just as sporty. Enjoy!"
CR Expert -- Gabriel Shenhar
"Go for the Accord. There will be a redesigned TL in 2004 based on the new Accord, and then you might regret such a recent TL purchase."
If you can stretch to it, the TL-S is better than the Accord V6 but of course, it does cost around $5K more...
The 03 Accord as already mentioned in this thread is a new generation Honda while the current 99-03 TL is based on the previous Accord. Effectively, the TL is therefore yesterday's technology news.
Depreciation is another factor to consider, I believe. The current TL's value should drop faster than an 03 Accord's would when the 04 TL comes out. Down the road, you're probably financially ahead with the Accord.
I hope it's Just a matter of time before Honda solves the tranny problem. Having recently purchased an 03 Accord EX which was made in Japan, I'm surprised at the number of initial quality defects to suggest not all is ship-shape with Honda. There's a door rattle, horn hub on steering wheel doesn't line up with surrounding parts, dashboard's right end-part has bigger gap from door panel compared with other side.
Owned 2 Accords and leased a Civic since 1997, and they were all assembled like a nice watch. Hmmm...
The Accord actually has dual zone climate control 240 horsepower runs on regular fuel and side curtain airbags. When someone is price conscience the Accord wins hands down. The Accord has 240 horsepower as opposed to the TL's 225 but the accord is only one tenth of a second faster to sixty.
If you were in my dealership I would go on all day as to why the Accord was a better value and it actually is but the TL is a better car. I always said people only bought the TL over the Accord because they were an "image buyer" until I bought a TL. Every part of the TL is a little nicer than the Accord and when you add everything up the TL becomes a much nicer car somehow it seems as though the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.
What image? Acura is not like Lexus, not that many people know about it or recognize it as a luxury brand. After I bought my TL in '99 I've had to explain countless times to different people what this "Acura" thing is. Granted, Acura has REALLY stepped up advertising in the last couple of years and this has raised the brand awareness, but it still has a LONG way to go before people would start buying Acura for "image".
You were right in your post: TL is just a better car overall. That's why people buy it over Accord.
It all depends on where you're going and where you are from that helps define your preferences and what your social circle understands about you.
Is it a better car? Well in the absolute I suppose. As a Tag Heuer is a better watch than a Timex, although both Tag Heuer and Timex, like Acura and Honda perform there functions admirably although one with considerably more panache and style for those who want to pay more for the priviledge.
I think Acura is right up there with Lexus in terms of name recognition.
My observations about lack of brand recognition are from three years ago, when I bought my 2000 TL. At that time I lived in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and Acura was certainly not nearly a recognizable brand as Lexus.
I've since moved to East Coast (DC area) and Acura has spent tens of millions of dollars on TV advertisement. There is no question that there I'm observing a lot more brand recognition now due to both of these factors. But even in the last several months, I was asked couple times (by people in their fifties) "what is this Acura thing and who makes it?".
That explains.
So are you saying people in their fifties(in DC) are up to speed with the Lexus name and are completely oblivious to the Acura brand?
I think the Ledgend, Vigor and Integra laid the path for the now numbered names (eg 3.2 3.5)Acura has in their showroom.
I just find it hard to beleive about Acura not been recognizable.
We need to leave off the personal disparagements, the locality criticisms and the generalizations -- none of that is on topic.
Let's get back to the subject.
With all due respect, why wouldn't it be a relevant issue? For many people prestige of the brand is at least as important as the performance characteristics of the car.
The Santa Fe who remark is a bit off topic, but the comment about age is important. Many people over 50 were buying cars BEFORE Acura existed. I believe studies will also show that the over 50 age group watches TV less and surfs online less--reducing potential exposure to the Acura.
I should have just said knock off the personal attacks, fair enough?
:-)
Oddly enough, when Acura first came out, my 50+ grandmother traded in her Pontiac for a Legend. Which is another reason Acuras are less recognizable: They were referred to as Legends, not Acuras. This branding issue is why Acura changed the Legend and others to the TL, etc.
When the Legend came out it was known as the Aucura Legend.I remembered this because I was in high school and some rich kid father had one.
I don't know where your grandmother bought her Legend.
By the way, are your replies always so antagonizing?
Sorry man!!!!
In any event the Legend was rebadged not a TL.
The TL now wears the badge of the Vigor.
I guess I am missing your point-
Were you trying to say that when the Legend first came out it did not have Acura written all over it?
Please clarify.
All he is saying is that people did not say "Acura Legend" and they did not say "Acura Vigor" -- instead they just said "Legend" or "Vigor".
He is saying that Acura went to the current naming standard to get people to say "Acura TL" and "Acura RL" so that the name ACURA got more recognition than it did with the Legend and Vigor.
At least that's what I understand his point to be and I have read this previously.
Here are what the extra 5k buys me, in order of importance to my personally:
1) Sports Shift (a must for me, I drove a stick shift most of life, but in this tri State traffic, cannot live without an auto, but it's nice to be able to go back to manual and take over the car again...)
2) Stiffer suspension. the 03' EX-V6 is way soft for my taste.
3) Still faster. 0-60 6.5s vs 7.0s, and more torque at low end gives better pickup.
4) 17' wheel vs 16'
5) better highway cruiser, still quieter and car feels tighter and more stable. VSA helps in cornering
6) other goodies: Xenon lights, fog lights, memory seats, etc.
7) Brand: say what u want about Acura, but I'm ready to move *off* the Honda wagon after having 2 Hondas (Prelude and Accord) in the last 7 years. Free road side assistance and loaner car is nice.
8) better driver's seat. perforated leather seat is a little richer in taste.
Dave