Mazda MPV

billmckinley · October 2001

First of all, congratulations on your deal and your MPV and welcome aboard. You should tell everybody the name and location of that dealer. He sure lived up the name.
Second, don't believe Java about his bad manners. Among his other traits, he's an inveterate liar [his point #2 proves it]. He's actually a very civilized man--for an Alaskan.

Happy Miles!
RJ

scarter7719 · October 2001

Thanks to all for the warm welcome! I purchased my MPV from the local Mazda dealer here in Fort Myers, FL....appropriately named 'Mazda of Ft. Myers'. Good people to work with so far. As far as leaving the Honda fold goes, well, I still have the '00 Accord SE that used to be my wife's car. I really like my 'new' car as well! I would have purchased the Ody, but at just under $30K with no room for negotiation and the very long waiting list, I just got fed up. It's funny how you look back sometimes after thinking you're settling for less, and realize that you got the better deal after all. And that's just what I got...a good value. I mean, the Ody was going to raise my total monthly car payments by $175/mth...the MPV, just $5! No Honda is worth that in my book. Granted, I know I'm still in the honeymoon period and I already seem to notice some sort of mild vibration at 35-55mph (?) but the rest of the van is solid. Java, sorry to hear about the snow. I suppose you probably don't want hear about how I haven't seen snow now for almost 20 years (a former Hoosier) or how it's going to be 82 degrees today here in sunny SWFLA :-) !!!

Scott

sbnng · October 2001

Have any other MPV owners found it annoying that Mazda didn't design a way to turn on all interior lights from drivers seat? Kids are asleep and you need to see something back there and there's no way, short of opening door, to turn on those lights.

pjd58 · October 2001

Fellow MPV owners check out the new Mazda 6 sedan, 626 replacement, it's located under the Sedans board ,in the Town Hall. Will be new to North America in 2002. IMO, what a BEAUTIFUL car. Will give the Camry and Altima some stiff competition.

The Tribute, Protege 5, MP3, 200hp MPV and the 01 Protege fresher look.....Way to go Mazda.

javadoc · October 2001

I like that car! I was just reading a review about it in a Canadian auto mag, and that is a nice improvement on, imho, an already nice sedan! If I didn't have my heart set so firmly on an A6 Quattro as my next sedan (Hmmm, S6?), you could sign me up for a school bus yellow model today.

/Javadoc

rutger3 · October 2001

sbnng: Yes, it is annoying that Mazda wouldn't have made it possible to turn on the interior lights from the drivers seat. It makes perfect sense to me.Such a small inexpensive item,yet so practicle. I believe this is a Japanese versus American thing. I have noticed that every American badged car I have driven has this ability using the same switch which controls the instrument panel lights. However,every Japanese car,like my Camry,seems to leave this off. Then again,Mazda also decided to leave off a passenger side power lock button. Go figure.

chomerj · October 2001

Sorry to be long winded, but...

After driving pre-owned MPV, Sienna, and Caravan over the weekend we bought a used 2001 MPV LX (Rainforest Green) for $20,500 (sticker $22,995). Had dealer pay for Carfax (after he bad mouthed former rental vehicles) and found out he was trying to sell us a rental also! Has 13K w/ security pkg, rear air, touring pkg.

As this was not a Mazda dealer, they new little/cared little about specifics AFTER the sale. They only gave my wife one key, and knew nothing about the keyless entry. Needless to say I was irate, as I know the keys are expensive and hard to make. Our salesman basically told me "tough luck" regarding above problems. I called the General Manager and he told me he would split the cost of new key ($120.00).

My questions:

1. I believe I need to bring vehicle/one key to dealer and they will make another. Is this correct?

2. Keyless entry does not work. Obviously the batteries may be dead, but the car is only 6 months old. Does the keyless entry also need to be programmed?

Thanks!

alexv1n · October 2001

You can program a key fob yourself by following instructions on this page: http://www.vakcer.com/mpv/info/index.htm (See "Using additional keyless entry transmitters" in Electronics section).

You can program a key with immobilizer as well but you need TWO working keys to do this. If you have only one, then you have to go to Mazda dealer who can program another one.

I hope this helps.

chomerj · October 2001

You're a saint Alex!! You solved my key fob problem. Now if I could only find that second key....

Thanks again!

Chuck

jsfein · October 2001

On the verge of purchasing LX. List with options & destination is $25,505; invoice is $23,520. After much negotiation, dealer will sell at $22,387 (which includes $1,000 rebate), which turns out to be $133 under invoice. Should I be able to do better than this at this time of the year? I have found the selection with options I'm interested in to be quite limited.

Also, I'm being offered Mazda's 4.9% financing. Can a better rate be negotiated?

billmckinley · October 2001

It's certainly not a bad deal, but it's not the best. When I bought my LX in Feb, it had an identical list and invoice price. I got mine for $22046, so there might be some wiggle room for you in the deal. You're getting a better interest rate than I did, though. I'm paying 7.7%, so you're goin to end up ahead of my deal.
I'm not sure that the time of the year is a factor. The new 02's won't even be manufactured until November and won't be available in the U.S. until January or February, so it's not like they have to clear ou the 01's in a hurry to make room for the new ones.
It might be worth your effort to try and gnaw him down another couple hundred, [and you might check to see if the $1500 rebate is still in effect--Edmunds should be able to tell you that],but if you can't, it's still not all that bad of a deal. And even at that price, it's thousands less than a similar Ody or Sienna.

Good luck with your negotiations.

RJ

jbsell · October 2001

I recently purchased an mpv lx with cargo net, fog lights, and mats as the only options. the sticker was 23,900. there was 1500 cash back. plus, i traded a 98 hyundai elantra with a trade value of only 4400--they gave me 5200. all in all, i financed a grand total (including tax and tags of 750 or so) of about 18,000 for a monthly outlay of 345 for 60 mos. does this sound good, or did somebody do better.

templeton12 · October 2001

I have found the 2001 Mazda MPV for $5400 under MSRP price and the 2002 Honda LX for $24,000 (660 under MSRP.) Getting a similarly equipped MPV will run about 20,000.

I know the Honda is bigger and has a bigger engine, but I don't think that alone is worth quite $4000. Anyone have any thoughts about whether the Honda is worth the extra $4000? I am especially interested in repair time/cost.

javadoc · October 2001

I'm of the opinion that the Honda is not worth the extra $4k, or I would've worked harder to buy one back when I shopped for a van and decided to buy an MPV. In my book, that extra $4k comes out to about another $70/mth (similar to my mocha budget), and that'd make it harder to justify to me than thinking of it as $4000.

Certainly, resale value, and residual will probably be higher on the Ody (it's a Honda afterall), but figure out if that's ultimately most important in your buying decision.

I've noticed that Odys aren't up to the std that you'd think of a Honda. A good friend of mine has one and remarks that it is "less reliable than" his "1995 Windstar was." That's not good to hear after remembering those troubles. The MPV has a few issues, but not to the magnitude that I've read of regarding the Ody. I've read their problem boards and seen troublesome transmissions, sketchy engine performance and mileage, wide-spread problems with automatic doors opening of their own accord (pun not intended), and my friend's has a ton of rattles after 20,000 miles while my 2000 MPV has no rattles (except the stroller in the back) after 20,000 miles and is just now going in for its first "problems," a loose vanity mirror door and squeeking rear brakes. I'm working hard to convince you. :-)

/java

tboner1965 · October 2001

And were basically underwealmed. For all the press hype about the Odyssey, it didn't seem to be all that great.

The only thing was it was faster.

I didn't need faster. I needed smaller than the DC van we had.

We could have waited to order a new Odyssey since our Grand Voyager only had 25K on it and was still under warranty for another 6 months when we began our shopping.

We didn't feel it was worth the premium price for an average equipped van.

TB

rutger3 · October 2001

templeton12: I agree that overall the MPV is a better or at least equal van to he ODY,with 2 exceptions,one major and the other not so major.
First the more minor issue,power. The Ody clearly has more of it and the 5% of the time you want it,it will be there.This is a personal decision. Also,this indirectly has an effect on the next point.
The single biggest advantage to the Ody is Resale value. It will be MUCH HIGHER on the ODY,that is a fact. Check the used values on Carpoint or Edmunds or even with other auto dealers including Mazda, which will prove this.I do not believe it is fair,but it is very real.
That being said,the $4000 difference is hefty. It will also depend on how long you expect to keep the MPV,if you keep it for 6+ years and 90k mile,then the difference will not be too much;however if you trade it in 2-3 yrs from now, the advantage of the MPV is less. Also,the monthly payments need to be considered. Isn't this car buying stuff fun?
I personally have enjoyed our 01 MPV the first 6k miles with no problems.My wife loves it. Consider what you like best,and also if you want to deal with those greedy Honda dealers and wait 5 months. Good luck.

drc67 · October 2001

templeton12: I was in the same situation 6 monthes ago and I chose MPV.

$ wise, I think both will cost about the same for the period (~6 yr) I will own the van. Sure, the Ody folks will tell you how great Ody's resale value is, but many of them forgot Ody's price tag is much higher, 70$ worth of Java beans more each month to be exact.:)

Power wise, yes, there are 5% of time I want more. But I bet no matter what van you choose, those 5% of time will alway be there, because they are just "vans", not sport cars.

The deciding point for me is its size. We only got one girl and not planning for more. Ody is clearly too big for us. Also, it is easier to park anywhere, especially in my garage. The extra space it left make it easier to get in and out of the van.

Go try out both vans for yourself and make sure it's most suitable for you not some critics from some auto magazines:)

Good luck.

calg · October 2001

Buy what is most suitable for you. We bought the 2001 Ody EX. We have two children, a large dog and we travel a lot. The MPV was just not an option for us because of its size and we did feel it was underpowered. We have had no problems with our ODY and have 24,000 miles on it. We paid under MSRP for it and feel the Ody is worth the price we paid.

javadoc · October 2001

..Ody owners lurking on the MPV boards! Just kidding calg!

Templeton:

When we shopped for our van, it was sorta easy to do back-to-back comparos, since the same dealership sells both the MPV and the Ody. However, in the case of the Ody, they had only one on hand, and it was "pre-sold" so we weren't even allowed to unlock it, just peer thru the windows, and could put a deposit down on one. The major factors that sent us across the street to test drive the MPV (many times) was cost, we thought the Ody was bland inside and it actually is too big to fit in our garage). Also, reliability was an issue with us as well as my low opinion of Honda's paint quality in past years.

We really liked the layout of the MPV and it was just the right size and we thought the styling was much more interesting than the Ody, as well as reading how the MPV handled much better than other minivans. It does handle very well. I didn't care that it can't do 14sec 1/4s or 0-60 in under 11secs. However, these were opinions, so you'll have to decide for yourself there.

Good luck!

/Java

big_guy · October 2001

I too prefer the size of the MPV over that of the ODY. The handling of the MPV is great. The addition of the 3.0L V6 will be a big plus. Now we just need to convince Mazda to provide a 3-seat 2nd row bench so you can seat 5 people with the tumble under 3rd row seat stowed away. I have a family of 5 and the 2-seat second row is a problem for me. Otherwise, I really like the MPV.

tholman · November 2001

I have not followed this forum for several months and recently read the Edmunds review of the top 6 minivans in which the MPV placed 6th. I wonder what other readers think. If this has been covered earlier, please direct me to the approximate location on the forum.

My MPV is 16 months old, has about 12k miles, far too early to draw definitive conclusions. While I'm sure Honda and Toyota are fine vehicles, they cost alot more up front. For this reason, I'm not sure it's a valid comparison. These vehicles are priced with sufficient differences that they may not really serve the same market segments.

With all the awful reviews I read of the GM vans in 2000 when I was shopping, I cannot believe they are now listed in the top 6. Even more unbelievable is who on earth would pay 34k for a Pontiac?! That's worth repeating, what kind of moron would pay 34k for a Pontiac??!!

The reviews for the Chrysler vans in 2000 were only slightly less horrible than those for the GMs. Consumer Reports went so far as to say don't buy one. That was good enough for me.

Ford was also significantly more expensive than Mazda in my search. So I compromised, I bought a van with a Ford engine and transmission for less money than a Ford.

This entire review process puts too much emphasis on engine power and not enough emphasis on utility. My 2.5L MPV drives nicely at 65-70 mph and I have had zero problems merging from on-ramps. After 10k miles the transmission smoothed considerably and seems to find the appropriate gear at the appropriate time, as it should. The seating configurations, interior storage, roll-down windows, numerous cup-holders etc. are more important to me than power.

Having driven a 92 Caravan 3.0L 6 cyl. for over 9 years, (118,000) miles, with few problems, I can attest the MPV doesn't have as much power and gets no better gas mileage (the only truly valid criticism) but it is bigger than the Caravan and certainly not too small as the reviewers claim. This is supposed to be about "mini" vans isn't it?

The only other issue I have with the MPV besides gas mileage (22 hwy, 16 city), is oil use. My old Caravan needs only about 1/2 pint at 1000 miles before the oil change at 2000 miles. The MPV consumes about 3/4 quart during the 2000 mile interval. That's not a good sign. I'm also going to stick with my plan to service the transmission every 18k, twice as often as the manual recommends.

Overall, I'm satisfied with the MPV LX. I got what I paid for, about 23k with sales tax (invoice price with no destination charge). I plan on driving it for another 15 years barring accident. I hope it's the last minivan I ever feel compelled to own. I think it will be.

billmckinley · November 2001

I'd like to second something Tholman mentioned about power. No, the MPV isn't the fastest car I've ever driven, not even as quick as my 94 Voyager. But I have yet to feel in the least threatened by its alleged sluggishness. I confidently dart through two lanes of traffic every morning across a road on the way to work. That's not something I'd risk if I were worried about getting T-boned in the process. When we took it down South this summer--two 200lb adults and enough luggage for four platoons on maneuvers--it got to and cruised at highway speeds without a hint of a problem [though winding out the engine merging onto super highways was scary on the ears]. I regularly carry three and four adults up and down the steep hills around here with nary a complaint about its supposed lack of power.
Would it be more fun for me with a larger engine? Of course it would. I'm an American: you could put a Saturn V rocket engine in it, and I'd wonder if it would do better with two. But is it "underpowered?" Not in my eyes.
Call it power "Lite."

RJ

billmckinley · November 2001

have said it better myself, Pjd58. Talk about economy of words!

;>

RJ

pjd58 · November 2001

I take Edmund's review with a grain of salt. Our family loves our MPV and doesn't regret our purchase. RJ is right on the money saying, " Would it be more fun with a larger engine? Of course it would". Our MPV never lets us down and has more than enough power for my Wife and 2 young boys. When I drive the MPV I tend to drive it like my 2.0 Protege, which is not the way the van should be driven. The MPV wasn't designed for jack rabbit starts, a vans job is to haul your "rugrats to and fro. What our MPV lacks in power, makes up in superior handling.

I'm sure you won't regret your decision! Our LX has 9K and not a single issue!

Pete

pjd58 · November 2001

Fat fingers:)

billmckinley · November 2001

I sympathize, believe me. My own hand-eye co-ordination is noyhing to braf about.

RJ

otish · November 2001

Our neighbors ordered a Honda Ody and we were all excited about it after reading all its great features (they actually found a dealer who sold it for under sticker too!). When they finally got it we were all rather underwhelmed by it. The inside is quite boring but it did have those nify features like the foldaway 3rd seat. They never seemed that excited about it. Then it started to have problems - usually electrical in nature and several times with the doors. We then saw the MPV and fell in love with it. We brought ours home with leather seats (they wanted) and the moonroof (they liked) and the great stereo, etc... They continue to have problems and we continue to be happy with no problems. We have owned ours since Jan. 2000 and have driven it quite a bit across the country. It is the right size for us with 2 kids and is beautiful!

pjd58 · November 2001

on a 250 mile roundtrip last Friday, to my Nephew's football playoff game. I was motoring at 75mph to 80 mph on I-70, with 6 adults and the van handled wonderful. My Wife is the primary driver of our MPV, so I really enjoy getting behind the wheel.

Now would be a great time to purchase an MPV, 0% financing with Mazda American Credit. 9k miles on our 01 LX and not a single issue. BTW, I believe our transmission is smoother with age.

Pjd58

utahken · November 2001

I picked up an "almost-new" 2000 LX this summer, and now that it's getting chilly I notice that I only have rear AC -- the heat doesn't go there (guess I needed the 4 seasons pkg). Anyone know if rear heat can be connected aftermarket?

msgjvh · November 2001

I do not believe it can be. The expense certainly would not warrant it. If you feel you need the additional heat an easy solution is one of those small under seat ones from JC Whitney for about $50 bucks. You can use the rear accessory plug for the power source. But from my experience you really don't need it. Just let the van warm up a few minutes before. That heater will fry you out!

bob57 · November 2001

Took my one year old, 16.5K mile, 2001 in for warranty - said they couldn't make the ashtray larger. They asked what else.
Gonna find a problem one of these days....!

billmckinley · November 2001

I might be able to solve one of your two problems. If you already have the clutter catcher, you can stick a deep round plastic ashtray in one of the two cupholders at the front. Handier and more secure than that pencil-thin slit Mazda laughingly refers to as one.
As for your other problem--that you can't find a real one to complain about--I 'm afraid you're on your own. Hey, how about this? On a bright sunny day it's very hard to read what gear you're in.
I'm trying. Really I am.

RJ

bob57 · November 2001

I posted a message about the ashtray about 6 months ago in jest and got flamed by 37 people who told me to quit smoking. Ha!
You're right about the sun/glare thing - I always note the RPM gauge to indicate what gear I'm in - especially after I have taken it out of overdrive after stop & go on the freeway (freeway??) and noted I'm turning 4500 RPM when I'm up to speed again - oops.

rutger3 · November 2001

Took our 01 LX on first long trip,1000 miles to/ from Maine. Mileage 23.5 - 24.0. The van's ride was very good. Seats were comfortable for 7-8 hours. Overall,satisfied. The negatives were as follows:
-Engine noise a bit high,expecially on acceleration,not too bad on crusing. Even though I cruised easily at 70 mph and at times found I was going 80,did notice that the rpm's were fairly high,about 3000 at 70mph. This compares to 2500rpm for my 99 4 cyl. Camry. Certainly nothing new here,the engine has to work hard to pull all that weight. BTW, don't you love it when a car mfg. corrects a 'problem' with engine power by putting a larger engine in the next years model. What about all those people who have the 2000 and 2001's,is Mazda going to give us the new engines too? They should have known this 2 years ago.
Now about the rear heat,which I don't have. How is it that the A/C and Heater use different mechanisms to distribute the air? I have never seen this on any other vehicle. It may not pose much of a problem,but how and why did they do this. Also, would like to have some darker tint on the front side windows,and more knee room on front passenger side(must be the world's largest dashboard).

billmckinley · November 2001

You want cramped? Corkscrew yourself into virtually any seat of my 98 Cherokee. The guy who designed that thing had to be descended from Tom Thumb and Thumbelina.

;]

RJ

msgjvh · November 2001

Rutger,

Heat and A/C are two totally different systems in all systems with the exception of the heat pump. They generally just share the vents and fan. Now I do not know why Mazda decided to separate the two. I think they should have both been standard on the ES with an automatic control system. Was your remark just because you did not have it? Or did you notice a problem keeping the rear of the van warm. I don't have the rear heat either, and the kids are thankful I would have sweated them out just from the front.

MSGJVH

rutger3 · November 2001

msgivh: I have not noticed any problems so far in heating the van,but the real test comes in January/February. I do not anticipate any. My point was that I have never seen any vehicle use different vents or systems to deliver the Heat then the one used for A/C. This amazes me. The only reason has to be the chance to make more money.Shame on you Mazda. What's next,having the right hand power mirror be a separte option from the left hand side? Offering two separate power window options,one for the front and one for the rear? Why not 2 wheel and 4 wheel ABS. Better yet,how about an extra cost option for a right hand wiper blade. I could go on forever. Wait,why not leave off a passenger side power window switch to save money. Oh yeah,they already did that.

maltb · November 2001

What are you talking about?

"My point was that I have never seen any vehicle use different vents or systems to deliver the Heat then the one used for A/C. This amazes me. The only reason has to be the chance to make more money.Shame on you Mazda."

Up front, they use common ducting. To have rear heat, you need to run water lines from the engine to the back. They are saving the customer money by making it an option.

Where I live, I have no need for rear heat and I don't want it. I'll never use it and it's just something else to fail down the road.

So in light of your post, I say thank you Mazda for not making me pay for something I don't want.

And I have nothing to whine about today.

javadoc · November 2001

I'm a bit cornfused, which isn't surprising ;-) I was under the impression... having both rear a/c and rear heat in my van... that the heat and a/c blows mainly out of the ceiling-mounted vents, which doesn't seem out of the ordinary. If they were on totally separate systems, I'd think that there would be two sets of ducts back there, and I'm pretty sure there aren't. Where are the differing vents for the heat and a/c that I've never noticed? I will reserve the right to place my own foot in my mouth.

I would think that there are a/c lines going back there to some a/c hardware, as well as water lines going back to a heater core or something, then the rear fan blows whichever climate I select, be it frigid or toasty.

To the needing/not needing of the rear heat, rutger3, we've just started using the rear heat last week in Mochavan, when the temps dipped into the teens (F, not C). It is useful when it gets really cold out and has kept up with the coldest of days that I've seen, in the negative 30s.

/Java

evaddave · November 2001

If you want to see the Rear A/C lines, just look at the Right Rear wheel well (say that 5 times fast ). There are two lines that run around the wheel well and head forward under the body towards the engine. We don't have the 4-seasons, so I can't tell you where to find the heater lines.

javadoc · November 2001

white wheel well
white reel well
right wheel yell
might sweel as well
quite real squirrel

...I give up...

/J

maltb · November 2001

You need to tell your wife to reduce your daily coffee allowance by half.

javadoc · November 2001

Actually, my intake is rising... more classes = more caffeine demanded. I'm quickly closing in on 2#/mth.

The beige interior of our MPV is highly conducive to java-consumtion.

/Java

utahken · November 2001

I posted last week about adding rear heat aftermarket, which sounds like can't be done. The only problem I find is that when you blow the heat at 3 or 4 fan speed (in order to keep the little kiddies warm in the back), it roasts you out in the front. I'd prefer to have front and back and run them both at 1 or 2.

Looks like I'll have to trade in my 2000 for a 2002 w/ 3.0 and rear heat... bummer. ;-)

javadoc · November 2001

Yeah, I don't think there's a way to retofit it, unless you put in a portable heater back there, or crack open a front window when you blast the heat...old school, but an option. Utah does get cold, and HOT, so I'd be wanting both rear heat and a/c back there.

/java

stever · November 2001

stever · November 2001

Let the record show that MPV's own JAVADOC took top honors in tonight's Friday Freeway trivia contest. WTG java!

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

pjd58 · November 2001

tonight?:) Way to go Java! I didn't think you had it in ya:)

Pjd58

javadoc · November 2001

It was definitely a blue moon, and it was snowing in Vegas, I mean...the other place.

I want to thank the little people that I stepped on to get where I am today! ALso, my employer will be happy to know I did something constructive for a change instead of surf edmunds all day long.

/Java

alexv1n · November 2001

Java, have you been there alone? Then no wonder you are the winner...

Mazda MPV

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