Pontiac Vibe

hpulley4 · February 2002

If you add the 'B' package to the base Matrix 4WD car to make it more comparible to the base auto Impreza TS, they are the same price before freight, etc. Sorry for the confusion. The stripped 4WD Matrix is indeed cheaper.

ecarmack · February 2002

You can now configure the 2003 CTS on GMBuyPower. The Vibe should be any day now.

jimxo · February 2002

I decided to cross shop these cars from a price stand point only. Here's what I found.

Vibe 130 HP
FWD
AUTO
PWR WINDOW PKG

CRV 160 HP
FWD
AUTO
PWR WINDOWS (STANDARD)

Vibe MSRP $18,300

CRV MSRP $19,240 + $940.00

For less than a grand you can get the CRV with more room and HP. I may give up better handling and styling, but the CRV may be worth the extra dough. Not in the same class of cars but just some food for thought.

zircon2 · February 2002

In Canada, the old GM card allowed $500/yr for 7 years. to a maximum benefit of $3500. The new 'better' card allows a much lower limit ($1500?) but faster accumulation ($700-1000/yr?).

If you want the Vibe and are going to use your old card points, you must take delivery by Dec 31, 2002 or you lose the $3500 and get only the lower maximum. Pretty bogus, although better the what Ford did. So, it may really cost you if you wait beyond December. I really don't want to go for it this year, but don't want to lose my $3500 either.

dindak · February 2002

The "new and improved" card sucks. That said, it's still free money considering the card has no fee on it. Better than nothing.

-------------------

jimxo : Two things you will pay more for every month with a CR-V are gas and insurance. SUV insurance is pretty expensive. I'm expecting Vibe to be classified as a car and with out the 4WD it should be about the same as most small to midsize cars. Cargo space is about the same in both vehicles, slightly more in CR-V.

I was quoted C$135/mo for CR-V insurance and $90/mo for an Alero. That's $45/mo more or $540/yr. A lot of $$. I like the new CR-V a lot though.

clyde2000 · February 2002

I too found it difficult to see how the new GM Card in Canada was better than the old one. The only good thing, as you mentioned, is the possibility of faster accumulation. But when they reduced the GM dollars from 5% of all purchases to 3%, I failed to see how the card was better because of it. I guess I'm just not the marketing type. Citibank offers the Driver's Edge card, which offers 2% towards the lease or purchase of a car of any make.

hpulley4 · February 2002

With the old card, $500 was the max. At 5%, this meant after you put $10000 on your card for the year, you couldn't accumulate any more. Now, if $10000 is _all_ (ahem) you put on your card, you'll just get $300 per year, but if you put $100000 on your card then you can get $3000 per year, though you'll have to buy a big Caddy or a Saab or a pricey SUV to use that whole $3000 at once (which you can likely afford, if you put $100000 on your card every year!). I was sure glad to use it on my Saturn L-series wagon last time -- along with 1.9%/60 month financing it made it very difficult to look at other manufacturers (who were, with the exception of Ford, all more expensive in their mid-sized wagons to begin with but they really looked overpriced with the GM points and low financing).

I may have to look into that Driver's Edge card, which would give me more freedom, especially now that the GM card will soon have just a slight percentage edge over it. Thanks for the tip.

golfboy · February 2002

Hello! First time poster here!

I carry both cards as the Driver's Edge is platinum (and thus higher balance limit). I have yet to use the earnings from either card and am very interested in the Vibe as I can take advantage of

A: my GM card earnings ($1500 max on Vibe)
B: the $1000 College Grad rebate
C: My Citibank earnings!

We'll see if competitive Vibe pricing in Canada and dealer negotiating will also come into play to seal my decision.

ecarmack · February 2002

on the new GM Card, you can not use the earnings in conjunction with the GMS (employee) discount. It may not be that big of a deal, since the discount is only 3% below invoice, and most GM cars can be had at invoice anyway.

I spoke to another dealer and he said it would be the 25th before he gets a Vibe in.

I find it amusing that on the Vibe website there is already a section for "Pricing and Incentives." Its just a given that at some point all GM vehicles will have incentives, but you would think they would wait awhile to start associating "incentives" with a brand new car.

revka · February 2002

and good luck with your purchase. Please keep us posted. Thanks! ;-)

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards

golfboy · February 2002

Thanks revka...I've been reading the messages on this board for awhile now and there has been alot of good information. I wanted to join in and put my 2 cents worth as well...

It seemed strange that GM would be delaying so long with their Cdn pricing, especially since US prices and Matrix prices in Canada have already been announced. I've read that it could be GM balking at the VERY competitive Matrix prices and that may be true.

I think GM is going to wait until the Canadian Intl Auto Show to announce prices. If I know GM it's that they love to be the life of the party and they'll have lots to show off with the Vibe, SSR, and Hummer making their great white north debuts. I would wait a week until media day in Toronto for a press release on Vibe pricing.

jas28 · February 2002

I finally got the straight story for the restrictions on the moon and tunes option package restrictions...I was at a Toyota dealer and this is what they told me - the Navigation option has nothing to do with the moon roof (I think that's just an option package that makes the nav excluded from the moon roof) - the real reason is the moon roof weakens the roof structurally. The Toyota engineers felt that the 17" wheels which increase body roll, would make the vehicle dynamics suffer because the lack of the extra roof member would result in a body that was less rigid.

dindak · February 2002

Tested an automatic Matrix XR at lunch. Also picked up a brochure.

My impressions were mostly good. The car rides well and has lost of useable
space. Seats were comfortable and the materials were all good. I thought the dash
was a bit too glittery and I thought the base model looked better than the XR and
XRS which are a little too styled for my taste.

One thing I didn't realize is how few colors are available on the Matrix (only 5). Vibe has about 8 or 10 I think.

In the end, I think I will like the styling of the Pontiac Vibe better. I don't need a car
until spring so I can wait for supply. GM and Toyota will have a hit here as there were a lot of people looking at these cars at the dealer today!!

artdecho · February 2002

I like the "sans ground effects" look of the base Matrix better too.....the car's got busy enough lines as it is without adding to the "confusion". If I buy, it'll probably be an XR but I'll see if I can have the side sills deleted (or take then off myself)......will check out the Markham area dealers on the weekend.

duke35 · February 2002

I am considering the Vibe or the Vue.
I noticed that the Vibe's 180hp engine give a very low torque (125 lbs?). While the Vue, with the 4-banger, has a 143hp/153 lbs torque.
The vehicles are within 200lbs of each other I believe.

What is good for towing and accerating? Hp or torque?

Also, I notice that the 180hp you get only at a very high RPM - the kind of RPM I never put an engine to.

Can someone help me in understanding these numbers?

twistinmelon · February 2002

It wasn't getting half as much traffic as the Matrix for some reason.

It's amazing how different they were able to make the exterior from the Matrix with a little lower body cladding and a roof rack.

5 speed shifted very smoothly.

Hard to believe I would ever consider a Pontiac...but here I am.

twist

golfboy · February 2002

HP is exactly that...power, in this case the rate of work done by the engine. High HP is usually effective when accelerating at speed when the rate at which the engine responds is important.

Torque on the other hand is a force unit. Force is useful when you want to displace the vehicle from a low speed or a complete stop in a timely manner. High torque numbers mean the engine can transfer more rotational force to the pavement thus propelling the car forward more quickly.

If you plan on doing a lot of towing, I would get something with much more low end torque (more torque lower in the RPM band) than the Vibe. Usually the only way you can achieve this is with larger displacement engines (such as V6s or V8s). Pontiac does say that the Vibe is capable of towing up to 1500lbs though...

zircon2 · February 2002

Is that beginning this weekend? I agree that they will probably announce Vibe prices there. I would really like to sit in one of these puppys.
Interesting that you can sit in one at the Chi show but not in Detroit.

I have been building up GM miles forever. I have not liked any of their cars enough to even test one, but have been patiently awaiting the Vibe. If they do it right with pricing, I would move out of my Honda. I would like to see some test drive impressions of Joe Public when they are released.

dverespey · February 2002

They just released the Vibe to all of the NUMMI management this week. My boss gives is giving it high marks.

His only complaint was the cup holder wasn't big enough.....

duke35 · February 2002

Thanks.
If I understand you right. I am better off with a 152 lb torque (w/143HP) than a 130 lb torque (w/ 185Hp) to tow. Assuming I want to do light duty tows (<1500lbs) a few times a year.
In fact, both the Vue FWD and the Vibe are rated to 1500lbs - which is better than the starun LW300- wagon with a V8 but rated only at 1000lbs.

Thanks

hpulley4 · February 2002

The LW300 has a V6, not a V8.

The towing limit has to do with a lot of things, tranny and suspension among others. I believe those things are different between the VUE and the L-series Saturns.

leafguy2727 · February 2002

I'm ordering my Matrix on Monday. For pete sake don't do it. Just on resale value alone buy the Matrix let alone the fact it's priced better.

clyde2000 · February 2002

I'd rather have the Vibe for two reasons: 1) it looks better (yes, you know it does), 2) GM Card dollars and grad rebate. Plus, CDN pricing hasn't been released yet...

I spoke to a Pontiac dealer today and the rumour is the price will be released Monday. I also picked up a brochure, and it sure does look nice.

www.drivethevibe.com is to have information on a GM marketing idea to have people (auto journalists I think) drive coast to coast or something like that.

vetteryan · February 2002

How much do you get off for the Grad program? I am graduating soon and have GM earnigs too. Could you point me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Ryan

logic1 · February 2002

Saw the Vibe and the Matrix today at the Chicago Auto Show. Both were drawing respectable crowds. Believe it or not, the interior of the Vibe is cleaner and less busy than the high end Matrix. Exteriors were close, but I prefer the Vibe overall. If the swarming crowds were any indication, both will sell very well.

n8magic · February 2002

... and can't say I was all that impressed with the exterior. It looked kind of tacky and awkward.

The interior was quite nice (reminded me of my friends Protege5), and the cargo room was nothing short of amazing for a car of this size. They even had an XRS with 6-speed manual (dealer is in Waterloo, ON for those looking for such a model), BUT the sales drone (who was quite arrogant, typical Toyota dealer) said that none of the Matrix's have sunroofs available.

There was also a hefty amount of people buzzing around the display Matrix's they had in stock.

I'll wait for the Vibe... I like the exterior better, and I will get my GM Supplier discount. The Toyota dealer wouldn't budge from MSRP (surprise, surprise).

dindak · February 2002

I don't think the difference in re-sale is predictable but if were less, it wouldn't be much less. You don't buy a car you like less because it may be worth a little more in 5 years. Both cars are nice, but I like the Vibe better.

jimxo · February 2002

I like both cars equally (matrix) and will probably order three vibes in June. I own a small company and need new company cars for my sales people. I also get the GM employee (spouse) discount so I expect to be hundreds below invoice, cant pass up this deal. Don't worry they will not be getting the GT.

logic1 · February 2002

That is a pretty clever idea. Put your logo on the side, and you should get a lot of looks. The Vibe will definitely attract attention.

Peterun · February 2002

Vehicle is great, no doubt. 6 speed manual, floor mats, 17' wheels. Also drove the XR with the 130 hp engine. Very easy decision: The grunt of the 180 hp engine; the difference in precision of the 6 speed vs. the 5 speed - the XRS handles in a superior fashion. I was prepared to not feel much difference because of the slight difference in torque (125lbs vs. 130 lbs). To my touch, there was a distinct difference, in favor of the XRS model. MSRP was $19,400, including delivery. The car has quirky good looks, practicality . . .and is a lot of fun to drive. One man's take! Pete

golfboy · February 2002

Congratulations on your purchase! I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we look forward to any updates up the car and additional impressions once you have it broken in. Again congrats!

hpulley4 · February 2002

I'm interested: what are the break-in limits on the 180hp engine? Stay below a certain RPM or just vary the speed an no full throttle starts or what? How long do you have to wait before you can really wind it up? Did they let you wind it up during the test drive? Enquiring minds want to know...

golfboy · February 2002

Just so you know, there is a limit now on how much of your GM earnings you can redeem on certain cars. $1500 is the max for the Vibe. The $3500 max that used to be applicable on any GM is now only reserved for Caddys.

But with the $1000 grad rebate (if it applies)added on you come $2500 on top!

Peterun · February 2002

Directly from the manual:
"Drive gently at high speeds. Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break-in. But following a few simple tips for the first 1600km (1000 miles) can add to the future economy and long life of your vehicle.
1. Do not drive over 55 mph;
2. Run the engine at moderate speed between 2000 and 4000 rpm;
3. Try to avoid hard stops during the first 200 miles;
4. Do not drive slowly with the manual transmission in a high gear;
5. Do not drive for a long time at any single speed;
6. Do not tow a trailer during the first 500 miles."

I am trying to take this as a directive as best I can. I strayed in the following ways: Took the Matrix up to 80 mph on the freeway for a few - rock solid, no vibrations, no shimmy. Perfect - and the rpm stays in the 3200 range in 6th gear; I have taken the rpm as high as 5000 - 5200 rpms - but only for a second or so. I'll be gentle with this car for the first 1000 miles.
Hope that answers your questions! As a P.S. I do not feel a lag, nor a lack of power in any range. Distinctly felt it with the 130 hp engine. I was expecting the engines to feel similar in the low rpm ranges. As I said in an earlier post, I drove both XR and XRS models. Would have been less satisfied with the 130 hp engine and the smaller tires. Pete

montanafan · February 2002

Got a chance to drive a Vibe over the weekend. I am also about 6'2" and 280lbs, found it to be a little tight on the legs. Headroom was great front and back. The switch feel was great, as was door shut effort & sound. Seats very comfortable. Would take some getting use to the tilting steering column not steering wheel that I am use to. Liked all the storage areas. Thought the gages were cool the way the needles glow red first before the rest of the dials. The console is not quite forward enough to support my right arm, and the shift is a little to forward to hang arm from. No problem working the heater controls with car in park. Did I mention all the storage areas. Fit & Finish looked good also. Took out on the highway and had no problem getting right up to speed. Based on my impression and others looking at the same time, Pontiac should be able to hit it's 42,000 unit target. Also, people seem to know about the joint Toyota heritage.

montanafan · February 2002

Pontiac thinks the most it can get is about 7,000 per year. Engine is modified by Yamaha. Hope I get this right, the reason the power comes in at the high rpms is that at 6,000rpm, oil pressure pushes a pin into the rocker arm and the low rpm roller floats free. I guess that is the variable valve timing. Also with an automatic the car would be slower 0-30mph then the base engine with auto.

montanafan · February 2002

The car I drove did not have the system but the dealer had the owner's manual supplement, so I looked through it. Not a touch screen. Will not play DVD movies. The export versions do have a TV feature though. Can use it to keep track of maintenace history and as a reminder system. Can even input your dealer's name. Can change to French for the Voice Prompts. Single CD in the dash, 6 disc unit under the passenger seat load from rear seat. Dealer's haven't been told how often the DVDs will be updated or the cost. Dealer believes the restriction on Moon & Tunes and DVD is that, DVD System not compatible with the 200 watt premium sound system.

montanafan · February 2002

No plans currently for a leather trim.

montanafan · February 2002

The Moonroof adds weight to the top of the car and raises the center of gravity. The 17" Wheels/Speed Rated Tires also raise the center of gravity. Therefore it is an engineering restriction that keeps these items aparts.

golfboy · February 2002

I don't know if I buy that explanation. Sure the moonroof adds mass to the top of the car, but the 17 inchers are fitted with lower profile tires and should make the overall diameter the same as the 16s. From what I understand, the ABS sensors are calibrated to the outer wheel diameter to detect lockup so unless the dealer does a calibration on the ABS everytime someone wants to fit 17s on the GT (which I doubt), the wheel diams are probably the same so it shouldn't raise the ride height any.

In fact, the 17s are somewhat wider than the 16s as well as taller and therefore weigh more putting some of the mass back toward the bottom of the car.

PS: I didn't know you couldn't get a moon and 17s on the same car...when did this happen?

jas28 · February 2002

It's the added body roll that's the issue with the 17's. The body stucture doesn't like the added roll.

This was a Toyota engineering judgement call (although it strikes me as the vehicle may be a little overly sensative if that extra inch in the wheel makes that much of a difference.)

dplachta · February 2002

Anyone know why the Vibe only has 47" of rear hip room for a car that is 69" wide? I have a '92 Camry that I'd replace and need a rear seat that's comprable. The Vibe has about the same leg room and more height. Yet with a narrower seat, I don't see my three soon to be teenage kids easily fitting in the back seat.

Why? Do the rear wheels cut into the space?

Besides that, I really like the Vibe and the Matrix, which I find in conflict with my dislike of the Corolla.

samsvr6 · February 2002

If you have the old GM card, you can use up to $3500(7 years accumulation) on ANY GM vehicle except Saturn and Saab
Only the new GM card limits the earnings on each vehicle (mostly between 1000 to 1500. Some at 3500).

magnetophone · February 2002

Has the Vibe started selling on the retail end yet?

zircon2 · February 2002

You are correct. My card is the old one, and I have $3500 as long as I spend it before next year. After Jan 1, the $3500 drops to the new lower, 'better' limit.

The new card has the lower cap, which varies according to car purchased.

I called a Pontiac salesman today. He said Ontario Vibe's were not going to arrive until March, and that the 2 they had on the lot were destined only for Quebec. Only Quebec is getting Vibe's right now. So, if GM's marketing geniuses have not impressed you enough yet, how about the Quebec only cars? Can you say bizarre? Can you imagine trying to survive a dealership on Aztek's and old Trans Am's when a new product is given only to the 'chosen' province? I bet they are pissed...

The salesman also said they were getting a lot of calls and traffic to see the Vibe. I asked him if it was just like when the Aztek came out and he deadpanned 'not really'. No kidding.

dindak · February 2002

Strange that it is available in Quebec first? I don't care much as our one lease is not up till July, but it would be nice to see one now. I guess they will have a few at the Toronto Auto Show on Friday, but you can test drive them.

zircon2 · February 2002

in one. I would like to hear the review. I guess the monsoon sound system is pretty cool.

mrhume · February 2002

I drove a Vibe this weekend and thought it was great. However, none in dealer stock had antilock brakes or side airbags, which are available as options. Anyone have any information on when Vibes with ABS will be available?

punkintoze · February 2002

I'm new to the board. I am currently pregnant and expecting our first baby. (It's a boy!) I currently drive a '98 Honda Civic Dx Hatchback which I love, but I have to give it up for a 4-door. We have a dog so a station wagon/mini suv would be our best option. I want something on the smaller side since I am used to driving tiny hatchbacks. I am looking at the Vibe and Matrix. They are within our price range. I'm debating which is the better deal. Seems like the Vibe has a higher price but comes with more standard equipment such as a/c (which I would like to have). I imagine the a/c is worth the higher price in itself. My husband is a union ironworker so we like the idea that the Vibe is more of a domestic car.
I am wondering about this GM card you are talking about. My husband bought a GMC Sonoma in '96 and I'm wondering if maybe we have some type of discount we can use toward a Vibe?? If someone could explain this to me I'd be very grateful!
Thanks so much!
Christine

dindak · February 2002

GM card is a credit card that allows you to earn 5% of your purchases towards a new GM car/truck. $1000 on the card = $50 towards your new car. Go to www.gmcard.com for details. If in Canada, go to www.gmcanada.com and they have details there.

Pontiac Vibe

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