Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
Oh yeah, there's nothing finer than an bright arctic white MPV. Best color going.
Steve, Host
mazda_guy- I'm not sure about the "evidence." As bottgers has just proven, I am often wrong and constantly throw out ideas based on absolutely no factual data, but I'll attempt to explain the basis for my statement. Back when I worked in tire shops, front wheel drive cars would come in and the rear tires would be completely destroyed after 15k miles. They would be "chopped out" (big chunks a tread worn completely away every 6" or so around the circumference of the tire). We found that if we rotated the tires on these same cars every 9k miles or so, that wear would not occur. Perhaps these cars had something wrong with their rear suspension or something that caused this premature wear.
Has anyone seen this type of wear before?
Anyways, the rotation eliminated this wear. Also, I seem to remember that front drive cars are quit hard on the front tires. Aren't they the ones that wear out first if you don't rotate them? Although four tires are more expensive then two, I believe that spreading the wear out evenly is a valid point. Any area on the tire which is worn more then the rest of the tread prevents the tire from shedding water properly. This basically renders the entire tire useless. So I guess the questions is....What are the characteristic wear patterns for tires on front wheel drive cars? If there is "evidence" that new cars with properly inflated tires wear each tire completely evenly, without any shoulder wear or "chopping out", then there is no need to rotate tires. But if some uneven wear occurs, then rotating them preserves the overall tread depth so that the tires can continue to shed water properly. It seems to make some sense to me, but as I said before I could be wrong. If so, I humbly apologize for the disinformation.
Does anyone else have opinions on tire rotation and wear?
If there is proper alignment, good suspension, and quality tires then there is no reason why tires on the same axel should wear patchy or not evenly.
I have read reviews that MPV 17" Dunlops last about 20,000 miles while performing scheduled rotation every 5000 miles. That means for 60,000 miles you will need three sets of four tires, or 12 tires.
From my experience I know that my front Dunlop tires last about 15,000 miles without rotation. Then I buy two new tires. The rear tires are still good for another 15,000. Therefore, at 30,000 miles I have to buy four new tires, and at 45,000 two front, and at 60,000 four for a total of 12 tires.
Economically I don't see any difference. Maybe you even saving on rotation fee if your dealer charges such. In practice when you rotate a tire initially you may sacrifice to some degree grip performance because the tire will not perform the same way as it used to until some time break in period. Some tires after rotation may become noisy as I experienced in the past.
I would also mention that on some cars you cannot even rotate tires if wanted to. The best example of such a car is Chevy Corvette.
MB
In my experience with a set of the Dunlops on my 2000, you shouldn't expect more than 35k miles out of them, as stated previously.
Moonpie, re: the 'chunking' that you described. I thought that this was due to, as you mentioned, a suspension issue. It could be an air pressure issue, but like you said, prudent rotations eliminate odd wear issues.
You're right though, that fwd cars are harder on the front tires. It stands to reason, b/c the fronts are both turning and being called on to pull the car around under power. Tough life the fronts lead. So... rotate, rotate, rotate. Oh, and watch the air pressure! Even 2psi can make a difference! And, if you have directional tires (a distinct Right and Left tire), keep them on the correct side. I mounted the Hakkas last winter backwards (rights went on the left, lefts went on the right) and boy oh boy, they were noisy!
I'd love to get a full-size spare and dump the donut (for towing).
Anyone here from down-under ?
Duplicate post for those who also read that "other" forum, sorry.
-brianV
Have you throttled the Caravan crowd yet?
So - to rotate or not to rotate? Such a conundrum.
and if the top mileage is 35K, I might as well just leave them where they are and get 4 new ones at 25K (since I'm leasing and my mileage ceiling is 40K).
However, since I only have under 300 miles on my new "baby", I'm not too worried about it now.
Bottgers - please elaborate on this "film".
I never expected high mileage from performance tires and Dunlops are not exception. I like those tires and I will stick with them. What I found out over years that most uneven wearing problems come from 1. Poor tire quality (General Tire for example) 2. Bad alignment 3. Problems with suspension 4. Improper inflation 5. Tire quality, tire quality -:)
Long time ago I bought brand new Toyota with Toyo tires OEM. After 8,000 miles the wires came out of tires on outer edges. When my wife went to the Toyota Dealer complaining about those tires she has been told that US Highways have banks that causing outer ege to wear prematurely.
After that idiotic statement I went and bought Michelin tires and I never had wearing problem for another 40,000 miles.
MB
1)'04+ Sienna
2)'00+ MPV
3)'01+ T&C & GC
4)'96+ Chevy Venture, Pontiac Montana/Trans Sport, and Olds Silhouette long wheelbase
5)'04+ Quest
6)'00+ Windstar
7)'99+ Odyssey
8)'01+ Caravan/Voyager
9)'96+ short wheelbase Chevy Venture and Pontiac Montana/Trans Sport
10)Volkswagen Euro Van (Yuck!)
dave_h2: Ok, then I guess we will just have stick with peaceful discussions. ;p
Caravan crowd? Hmmmmmmmm maybe!
Anyone got $6k I can borrow so my dog can have new hips? I think I need a very strong drink.
Leslie
I'm in market to buy a new car. I'm yet to decide between 2004 Subaru XT & 2003 Mazda MPV (At present I dont know if I'll go with LX or ES ? What are major difference between LX and EX ?).
I want to know what you guys payed for your MPV (which trim) ? From where did you buy your car ?
What is your Insurance ?
I'm interested in buying with power sliding doors. Actually I qualify for VIP program which allows me to buy Mazda / Forester at near Invoice price. I want to know if people are getting below invoice then I'll not use my company discount.
thanks
MJ
Sure there is! It's a great grab-bar for reaching the rear 1/3 of my GCS' roof when I wash it. I step on the rear bumper step plate, pull myself up by the spoiler, and hold onto it while washing, wiping, or waxing the rear of the roof. Without the spoiler, I'd need a step-stool or ladder to reach that part of the van. Maybe not an issue on the MPV, since it's shorter, but very handy on the longer van. Plus as noted, it makes the van look sportier.
You are correct. I did research other vans along with Forester & finally came down to this two choices. Cloth interior is okay with me. I dont want leather as in New England weather it is not worth buying leather interior. I saw someone on this post bought MPV for 20K with power sliding door and allweather package. I'm doing my research with local dealers also.
MJ
You don't have to got with the ES in order to get the options you want. If you want leather and 17" wheels then yes, you can only get that on the ES.
Good Luck.
Leslie
And yes, libertycat, she's right that you can get power sliders on the LX (after all, she has them on her van).
Rear-seat entertainment system with DVD player and flip-down video screen. LX O/A ES O/A
O=optional A=dealer installed option
Power sliding rear doors. LX O ES O
O=Optional
The only items you cannot get on the LX are the leather seats, power seat, upgraded stereo, security package (i.e. alarm) and the 17" wheels.
Hope this helps.
Leslie
Yes, you can have the entertainment system installed on your LX. If you have the moon roof as I do then from what I hear it's best to not have the entertainment system installed as the screen would be too far back. I think we are actually buying a portable DVD entertainment system for the car. I have to have my moon roof! ;p
Glad my info. was helpful. I keep the oddest things like my brochure. LOL!
Leslie
My price was $383, including tax. That's the whole front end and the headlight kit.
javadoc
I had it installed by one of our local window tint places.
moonpie
You're comment saying that my topics were manutia wasn't contradictory, it was just plain rude. Who are you to determine what's appropriate and not appropriate to discuss anyway? I'll make sure I check with you before I start another discussion.
Mazda_guy
Even though the maintenance schedule doesn't mention anything about changing the tranny fluid, I'd recommend changing the fluid and filter every 10K if you're just draining the pan and refilling, or every 30K if you're having a complete tranny flush done.
subearu
Sorry, I don't have a digital camera.
Anyway, although I'm not a big dog fan (I do like dogs!) I just wanted to say I wish I had that much money to help out your dog. That doesn't sound good or am I missing something? Is your dog getting old and is that why there's a problem?
All I know is it's never fun to have to start making decisions like that....
I hope things go well for your dog....keep us posted on what happens.
Sharon
From where & when did you buy your MPV LX with all the options that you mentioned ? It seems you bought my dream MPV. And how much did it cost ? What is your insurance (i'm on step 9) ? I need to make decision pretty soon so I'd appreciate your help.
thanks
MJ
I bought my '03 MPV LX from a dealer in Thomaston, CT. They treated us very well. MSRP on our MPV was just under $28k. We bought it under the S-Plan which is a buyers incentive plan that we were able to get through my husbands work. So we payed $100 under dealer invoice and paid just over $22k. Oh, we also took the $2,000 cash back.
The cost to insure my MPV I would have to look up. I'll try to post it later.
We bought an '03 MPV, Sunlight Silver Metallic.
Cloth seats
4 Season Package
GFX Package
Side air bag and traction control package
Roof rack
Rear bumper step plate
Wheel locks
Rear heat/air
Moon Roof (I love this)
Power Sliders (Another awesome feature)
6 CD changer
I really like my MPV. If there is anything I don't like it would be:
The 10 foot shifter though I'm use to it now.
The very small storage drawer under the front passenger seat is a laugh.
That's it.
I hope this helps.
lsinc, you are correct that the brochure does not mention the all-sport package, but there are 03 LX MPVs that have it. They're hard to find, since the option was evidently added mid-year, and it's not available on coastal blue, sage green, or shimmering sand vehicles. Edmunds' listing of 03 LX options shows the all-sport package, and lists these components: 17 in. wheels, 9-speaker 180w stereo, 6CD changer, fog lights, leather-wrapped steering wheel, GFX package, rear spoiler, and temp/compass/autodim mirror. To get the all-sport package, you have to also get rear a/c and the traction control/side air bags options, and as I mentioned above, it's not available with the power sliders.
I believe you did list an ES-only option I missed, which is the security package. I also agree with you that, for me, at least, the power doors are more valuable than the 17 inch wheels, or most of the things in the all-sport package. In the end, I upgraded to ES so I could have all the options. I think what I got was worth the extra money, but I do think the LX is a better value. In fact, as I've said here before, I think a loaded LX is the best minivan value available right now.
libertycat, you might want to check out http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/mazda/mpv/100122699/options.html?- - - - - action=1&tid=edmunds.n.prices.npt..2.Mazda* for a list of the full set of LX options, as well as prices for each.
Can we agree on that?
As far as my "contradiction" goes- It appears as if you and I have differing world views. You seem to have some very specific ideas about which wax, tire diameter, and oil are "the best." I do not share this same belief. I believe that the performance differences as so "minute" as to be negligible. My opinion seems to be contradictory (see definition below) to your opinion.
con·tra·dic·to·ry : a proposition so related to another that if either of the two is true the other is false and if either is false the other must be true
The nice thing is, we are both entitled to our own opinions. This is after all, a town hall discussion were we're all asked to express our opinions about various topics. The fact that my opinion differs from your own does not qualify it as "rude."
thanks
MJ
Steve, Host
MB
-leather seats,
- power seat
(that is awesome - even the DW thinks it's a great feature - no more reaching under the seat for that clunky bar),
- upgraded stereo,
(what's not to like about this? Tunes sound massive)
- and the 17" wheels
(oh, those "controversial" 17" wheels - well, guess I'll just have to live with them)
Zoom Zoom
(hey, whatever happened to that kid, anyway? Did they send him off to boarding school like they should have?) ;-)
Jinkies, now I have that song stuck in my head.
Leslie
Zoom-Zoom!
I was wondering if anyone knows if the organizer for the MPV impedes the third row seat from being stowed?
Also, does the bug deflector really work?
Thanks.
Leslie
Lberty, I've been told... elsewhere (not at a competing site or from a specific salesperson... sigh)... that you can get the wood dash ordered for you if you didn't like the carbon fiber dash. Or, you can order it over the internet...
Leslie, yes the cargo organizer impedes on the stowage of the third row seats. Want to see the picture which would help you? Oh wait, I can't do that... <bangs head>
If I end up w/a 2003 MPV, I'm getting 'plood' somehow... possibly just swapping out the plood from my current van into the new one at the time of trade/purchase.
JAVA: I take it all back about the MPV ashtray. I never smoked in my wife's van but was cleaning the Sienna interior the other day and pulled out the ashtray - man, now THAT'S small!!
I can't speak much about the differences between 16" and 17" passenger car tires because I haven't experinced many, but I can tell you there are huge differences between different brands of motor oil and car waxes. I read as much info as I can find posted on the internet about oil analysis test results, and there's a lot of it out there. I've seen test result numbers showing some conventional motor oils are total garbage before the 3K mile mark, while other oils are still showing good numbers at 5K-6K. That's a big difference. Also, I've used just about every type and brand of car wax/polish there is over the last 25+ years. For example, regular ol' Turtle Wax lasts for about 2-3 months. Zaino on the other hand lasted for more than 3 years on my last vehicle. If that's not a huge difference, I don't know what is.
Differences of opinion are healthy for the discussion board......as long as they're discussed politely.
I've following data.
Mazda MPV LX
All Season Package + GFX Package + Traction control + Power Sliding doors
will cost around 21200 (due to my company's discount).
Honda Odyssey LX
standard as it comes without Power doors is available from local dealer for 22400.
What should I do ? Mazda is having lots of features for some what less money. Whereas Honda has great reputation along with good resale value.
Any idea ? I was previously decided on going with Mazda but after seeing Odyssey LX for 22400 I'm bit confused. I dont have money to go upto 26K for Odyssey EX (which will give me sliding doors + Power seat)
thanks
MJ
1) Do I really *need* a bigger van with a little more interior space than the MPV? If the answer is Yes, get the Ody.
2) Which van do I like driving more? That's the main question to ask when all else is equal, IMO.
Another question (OK, that's 3) to ask is how important the extra features of the MPV are to you. Can you live without power sliding doors? If they are important, that will tell you which van to get.
Another thing.. be sure to ask your insurance agent about rates for both vehicles, to see if there is a significant difference. There should not be much, but it's worth checking.
When we were looking at different vans and doing research here at Edmunds and other sites (and Consumer Reports), we finally decided on the MPV. And we hadn't really considered Mazda AT ALL in our original plans! It's just that the Mazda dealer was right across the street from the Honda dealer and on a whim we said to ourselves, let's go look at what Mazda has....not even knowing what they had!
Of course much of this boils down to personal preferences, but for us, the lower price and better warranty were big factors. So were the ratings (reliability) in Consumer Reports and the things we saw at various web sites. And although my memory is already fading in regards to the other vans we looked at, doesn't the Honda also take a more expensive gasoline? We weren't too keen on that, either. Plus the interior seemed very cheap or bare or something. But again, the big things for us were price, reliability and warranty. That Roadside Assistance sounds so wonderful and although we hope we never have to use it, it's a great comfort knowing that it is there. Also, resale value isn't high on our list because we plan to keep the MPV for forever....
Good luck with whatever you get. But remember to check into things like warranties and even the kind of gas it'll need. That can all add up down the road.
PS: And as for "little" things that were BIG to me, personally....that 3rd row seat that stows in the floor (I know, the Honda does this too) and the 2nd row windows that go down were secondary factors that we considered. I don't remember...does the Honda's windows go down in the 2nd row too?
Sharon
Power sliders move very slow regardless of what angle the van is parked. The MPV power sliders do stop when they come into contact with an object. They move slow giving ample time to move out of the way. The power sliders also will not open when the van is out of park. Even if the child pulls the handle to try and open it manually it will not budge.
Now, another feature that the MPV has that my kids love is the rear windows that go up and down. They are huge too. They only go halfway down so they are child safe.
I'm sorry to add to your confusion. I would go with the loaded MPV.
Good Luck!
Leslie
Thanks for the info. I did see the picture of the storage bin at the Mazda site. I have to see things up close and personal in order to get a better idea of how it works. Do you know if it's easy to remove? Does it fold? Aren't you glad you responded to my post? ;o P
What about the bug deflector? Does it work well?
Ok, I'm done. Thanks
Leslie