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I know they tested these SUV's very hard, there is even a Score 500 desert racer version. If it was prone to cracking it would have showed up by now. It was probbley the parts suppler not making the part to spec. They might have change something to make the part more more brittle. I have driven GM SUV's for the last 17 years and drove a few very hard. Never had any suspension parts break!!
Let's have a little perspective here, the new Ford Escape has 5 recalls already!!, one for leaking fuel. If you think I'm streching the truth check it out at:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov
Allen
FOr some of you GM lovers...."the recall is good"
give me a break when will you learn GM is a second class manufacturer..IF want Quality buy..Toyota, Honda, BMW, and Mercedes..Some people NEVER learn...For all you GM lovers...I bet your ancestors thought the world was flat, and the Yogu would be the car of the future.!!
They'll fix this though, don't worry. Unfortunately, this happens whenever any ALL NEW vehicle is introduced. It does give the vehicle a black eye but at least they caught it before anyone got hurt. A bad control arm is dangerous.
As for attacking GM, look... I'm not a GM fan but I really want these vehicles to succeed because they have promise and GM needs a sales success ASAP. I hope this is the last recall they get for a while. Also, it is true the 2001 versions are not the safest suvs out there... poor crash test performers... but the 2002 are ALL NEW from the GOUND UP and we'll have to wait for real test results before judging them. Just my 2cents.
OH and for the person who cancelled his check... I'd report that dealer to the better business bureau NOW... that's one of the most unbelievable things I've ever heard of. I wouldn't trust them again... they apparently don't care about your safety... only the sale. Go to a different dealer!
The ironic part of topgn's statement is that his beloved imports would do everything possible to hide these types of issues, and have a better chance of doing so, since sales numbers are so much lower than domestics.
Toyota plays the Deceiving Game better than anyone. Just look at their BS numbers on Cargo volume of the Sequoia. They state 128 CI of total cargo space where Expedition (a bigger vehicle) only has 110 CI. HOW? Toyota neglects to state that you have to physically remove the 2nd row of seats (bolted down with 8 fixed bolts, which are not normally intended to be removed).
I know what the response will be from these bleeding heart import lovers - "Imports don't have these issues". BS. As long as humans are involved in the build process, there will be errors for every manufacturer. Some are just more devious than others.
joelis : Honda's minivan. have had numerous problems but of course Honda refuses to recall. There is a whole forum on the problems people are having. No car make is immune to this. Noticed BMW just issued a car recall yesterday.
Hard to trust GM to think of the public first, and the car dealership sales people may not show me the Recall Repair verification.
New models always have some quirks to fix, but not on my time.
After looking at the bravada we went to look at the trailblazer. This was my first look. The exterior is probably better than the bravada.
The quality of the interior materials and plastic is just AWFUL! It looks like the interior of a child's toy. The graining on the dashboard is got to be seen to be unappreciated. There were hard plastic edges on the door handles and console trim. $30,000 for this?
I'll take the bravada any day, even though its resale will be poor.
As for the Chevy interior, of course it's not as nice. It's a Chevy! I personally like the Chevs exterior look better and the interior was fine with me. No worse than base Pathfinders or Explorers.
I, too, have a week's old Bravada 2002 with 170 miles on it.
1- Both my dealer and GM called me 1st thing in the morning, they both did what it took to comfort me.
2- I got a 2001 Jimmy replacement, GM said that I should get a "comparable" vehicle. (if you get something you don't like, then it is the dealer not GM)
3- I was treated like a king at the dealer, the sales manager, the internet sales manager, the service manger, every one apologized to me, I told them it is not their fault, they said "it is your conviniance that we care about" and that is for just 400 above invoice!.
4- My dealer refused vehemently to let me drive it to him, he insisted that it should be picked up.
5- GM almost sent a tow truck to my work place, they thought the car was there.
6- GM did what is right, I don't think they endangered me or my family, there is not a single fatality involved thank god, unlike FORD EXPLODER!
7- What more do you want a car company to do, hide it and then end up with dead bodies scattered all over the place, that is the right way if you are going to compete with Japan Inc.
8- I looked at the Acura and Maxima, did not like them, too small, not as powerful (giving the engine size and the gallon/mile ratio).
9- Topgon, may be you are rich, I am not, also to pay 2000 + MSRP is a rip off in my book.
10 - No, I do not own GM's stock, matter of fact, my previous car was 93 Blazer, I had hell with it, every thing that can go wrong did go wrong!
11- Yes, this car will beat Maxima & Acura any time (when you take relative engine performance) and a good calculator!.
12- No wind noise, no exterior noise, the hood fits perfectly (no 1/4 inch on one side and 1/2 inch on the other like some one claimed, go get a ruler!).
For the fellow who asked about the 0/0 rate, it is 8.5 for 52 month starting this March (I go it 3/28), no pre payment penalty.
(by the way, I took it up steep hills, very steep with 3 passengers, I did our weekly shopping for 4, this shopping is too heavy that my old car couldn't haul, I had no problems, the problem was found not on dealers lot like it was mentioned, but during a some sort of a simulation at GM, this is a safety precaution!)
I LOVE IT AND I CANT' WAIT TILL I GET IT BACK.
-Alan
*that turned out to be a long post, oh well, you guys got me going!
Has GM given you any indication of what the fix will be and when we will get our SUV's back? Do you know exactly what the problem is?
Thanks!
When has GM told you your car will be corrected?
Rich
What was a $32K truck was now a $34K truck because of, as the salesperson wrote, "Its a new truck and you have these additional costs because of supply and demand."
When I asked about not being able to drive it, he had the gall to say "Well, that's beside the point,it will be fixed in about a month or so. Driveable or not, it's still a hot truck."
Is it me, or does this smell bad?
bobcat bob: About MSRP and else, do not go to just any dealer, go through the web, dealer's "Internet Sales Managers" do not work on commission as I was told by my dealer, they do "volume", up to 300 cars/month.
I got my dealer through autoweb.com - just go to any web based dealer, they are straight and know that you know the game!
I think the car buying experience has a lot to do with how the dealer treats you, and as I mentioned few nights ago, I had the most pleasant and painless experience ever with them.
-Alan
Of course there is going to be a lot of curiousity traffic at the dealers to see the new models, but reviews were not that amazing.
It was not like these new SUVs were stunning groundbreaking designs that were obvsiously superior to everything else on the market.
There are enough competition from other manufacturers for buyers to balk at any markup above sticker.
Why would someone pay $4000 over sticker for a Bravada when they can just buy a nicer SUV that has been discounted below MSRP instead for the same money or less?
I asked when it will be fixed, I was told they don't know yet and that I will be contacted as soon as they have an answer, I was also told not to pay attentions to rumors about the expected length of time, their dealers don't even know.
I don't know or care what most of you think, but this is a good customer service and I don't think GM is hiding any thing, why, they are in it for the money and they are doing the right thing if they want to change their image around.
For those who are having hard time with dealers: CHANGE them, it is that simple! as you can tell from this post and my previous postings, I have a positive attitude and that is due to the pleasant experience I am having with my dealer, the dealer is every thing not the factory!.
-Alan
P.S. - saw a Chevy Barfmobile (OOPS, I mean Avalanche) at the end of February in an Oshawa parking lot. And I thought that the Pontiac Aztec was the ugliest thing on the road!!!!!
Our dealer apologized repeatedly about our inconvinence. They showed us all of GM's communications to the dealer. They were super sorry.
Pick a good dealer, try ours, Billiion Automotive in Sioux Falls South Dakota 605-334-2020. Ask for John Meldanado, and tell him Tasso referred you. We have had nothing but courteous, respectful treatment.
Remember I bought this $35537 truck for $29047 when it was all done with dealing, being prepared and using every angle I could. Do your research.
I couldn't find any American or Japanese or German similar sized SUV with all leather, heated seats, memory features, DIC, 270 HP, all wheel drive, homelink, air suspension anywhere near that price.( The Axiom sure is cool,like it)
Finally, (sorry), I now I am not perfect in my job everyday, and it saddens me, but life can't always be perfect. Character and taking responsibity, and intergrity will bring me back to GM. (For the record, I own a Ford 64 1/2 mustang, 2 olds, Ducati's, Excelsior Henderson...so I am not "origin of manufacturing" handicapped.
CAN NOT WHAT TO GET IT BACK
Does anyone besides me want their money back? Do we have a simple recourse to get our money back for such new vehicles that have been impounded from us? How about extended warranties? I think GM owes us that at least (especially on the suspension components)and an extension of our first year free Onstar service (since vehicles are not being used and service is still active)? Also, as the vehicle sits, it is depreciating daily. Don't we get some consideration for the depreciation (which for a GM is relatively high) for the time we do not even get to use our impounded investments?
I hate being kept in the dark.
Any responses?
And you probably haven't seen too many Trailblazers/ Envoys because they only came to Canadian dealers last week.
Get your facts strait before you bash GM.
Even the best layed projects, plans, and designs can be unworthy in real life. Take for example the industry I play a part in, drugs and medicine. Look at the years of research that go into a medicine: animals for years, a few people, more people, hundreds of people, than usually thousands of people are tested before public release. Now look at all the drug recalls, at least a dozen big important medications per year. Amazing, millions of dollars of research, and some of the smartest people in the world, with the most stringent government regulation over seeing them. The interesting thing is we often do not see the flaw or problem until the medicines have been on the market for numerous months.
I am not trying to defend GM specifically, but all of us who are not perfect, but try to be honorable. I think it is great to see the counter point of almost everything.I agree it is to bad this problem wasn't figured out before market release.
I still wonder, I bet they will offer some compensation, maybe small, but something like free maintainence contracts, another loyalty coupon, etc...
If it is a component production problem, they will need to identify where in the manufacturing process the failure is being introduced, where the variances are between production components and the design itself. Once this has been determined, they will need to correct the manufacturing process, validate the new production components made by this process before they can deploy these replacement parts to the dealers.
If it is an assembly problem, they will need to identify statistically which batches of production vehicles are affected, and to come up with an inspection technique that will identify units outside of these batches that could exhibit the same failures - at the dealers. Any units identified would need to have a new production assembly put in place of the old one.
In any of these scenarios, the time frame cannot be short because validation of any component or procedure takes time. On the other hand, because this component is critical, GM has no choice but to advise owners not to drive until such time. In the public relations environment and given how critical these SUV's are to GM's market share, GM knows they need to get it right. That means not to rush out a fix that doesn't work (like Isuzu did on their SUV's). This would give a false sense of security. At the same time, they need to get production rolling again and get people's cars back on the road (a very high penetration form of advertising). GM is between a rock and a hard place - they can't rush but they need to rush. How they succeed at this is a great test of their PR and engineering skill. If they come out of this still standing, then we may be witnessing the rebuilding of character in the company which should instill a great deal of confidence with the public.
The best GM can hope for is that it was a problem introduced during assembly with the rest of the vehicle (improper torque on hinge bolts, or some similar attachement error). They could statistically determine batch/operators/shifts during which this error occurred and to initiate a teardown/reassembly/replacement on those vehicles affected followed by an inspection of all others (since the statistical danger of occurance in the field on non-affected vehicles goes away).
Then they could go on with the business of lighting up the factory and the marketing machine could go into full gear to spin control this thing. Cars would get back on the road and their most powerful form of advertsiing would be back.
When I called GM to complain about the Taurus I was given as a rental, I was told "we have been told to do whatever we have to to keep you happy." She will be calling the dealer Monday to get me a comparable vehicle. When I told her that the local car rental was already cleaned out of SUVs, she said they will have to pull something off their lot. She will call me back Monday morning.
Also I heard that the problem is on both sides, not just the left as someone mentioned earlier.
Other Toyota SAFETY recalls:
1999----96,000
1998----636,000
1997----928,000
Year: 2000 Make: TOYOTA Model: CARRY Year of Recall: '01 Type of Report: Vehicle Potential Number of Units Affected: 53061
Summary:
Vehicle Description: Passenger vehicles equipped with cruise control and V6 engines, and built at one of two lines at the Kentucky Plant. The accelerator cable housing could be deformed at the cruise control actuator-to-throttle body connection. The accelerator inner-cable could wear away and eventually break. This could allow the throttle to return to idle or remain in its most recent position regardless of accelerator pedal operation, increasing the risk of a crash.
Year: 2000 Make: TOYOTA Model: ECHO Year of Recall: '00 Type of Report: Vehicle Potential Number of Units Affected: 4530
Summary:
Vehicle Description: Passenger vehicles, registered in the states of Alaska, Colorado, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. Condensed moisture from the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) port could seep toward the brake vacuum port inside the intake manifold and start to freeze. Vacuum assist to the brakes would be decreased and increased pedal pressure would be required, increasing the vehicle stopping distance.
Year: 2000 Make: TOYOTA Model: SOLAR Year of Recall: '00 Type of Report: Vehicle Potential Number of Units Affected: 541
Summary:
Vehicle Description: Passenger vehicles. Due to improper heat treatment, the rear axle may not have adequate strength in some areas. After extended use of the vehicle, the rear axle shafts could fail or break.
Year: 2000 Make: TOYOTA Model: AVALONS Year of Recall: '00 Type of Report: Vehicle Potential Number of Units Affected: 541
Summary:
Vehicle Description: Passenger vehicles. Due to improper heat treatment, the rear axle may not have adequate strength in some areas. After extended use of the vehicle, the rear axle shafts could fail or break.
Year: 2000 Make: TOYOTA Model: CARRY Year of Recall: '00 Type of Report: Vehicle Potential Number of Units Affected: 541
Summary:
Vehicle Description: Passenger vehicles. Due to improper heat treatment, the rear axle may not have adequate strength in some areas. After extended use of the vehicle, the rear axle shafts could fail or break.
No comment!
-Alan
I've placed a call to GM regarding getting my money back and they are looking into it. If this drags too long and comes down to it, I will pursue this further. Here is a truck that I just spent $35k on and haven't even had two weeks. It's a sham because I really love this truck. I was originally going to get the Yukon, but wanted something a little smaller and the Envoy was perfect. If getting a full refund is not an option, I would consider a similar equipped Yukon for the same price I paid.
If this is resolved quickly, I would like to be compensated by having the full warranty extended to 100,000 at no charge and to be reimbursed the loan and insurance payments that I still have to make for the truck that isn't in my garage!!!!
This would be a much shorter (time) scenario than if there was a design defect, component manufacturing defect or assembly defect that would require a new redesigned component or process.
As a matter of fact, this recall HELPS consumers IMHO. For all those dealers charging (or at least trying to) MSRP for a Trailblazer...those days are gone. We have an extra card to play to those sneaky DEALERS!!!!!!! Of course, with the new design...and this being a first year model...problems are anticipated...but IMO the upside is great! The Trailblazer is what I've been looking for out of an SUV...and I was going to go with a Tahoe...but when I sat in that Trailblazer...I knew it was the one (and will save me a few grand on top of it all).
So, anyway...to my Question...pretty simple...preference.
I am interested in purchasing a Trailblazer LTZ (obviously when production starts again)...but do NOT want leather interior. Is there any way to manage all the LTZ options but get a custom cloth interior? I don't see the option anywhere...its either take the LTZ package as a whole (with leather) or regress to the LT and tack on as much as I can to create a makeshift LTZ...but I'll still lose out on the LTZ enhancements and perks.
Any suggestions? Im kinda new to buying NEW cars...so Im not familiar with customizing them.
Any help would be great! Thanks all!
mmateyak
however that all vehicles would be repaired regardless of what an inspection of the part may show. They also said that there is no policy to buy the vehicle back from unsatisfied customers, no policy to extend or amend the warranty or on star agreement to make up for the weeks this is likely to take. They did tell me that CM would contact me by mail to notify me of the recall and the details related to it. It was one of the most fruitless phone conversations I have ever had, and has sent my already sour sense of GIs public relations to a new low. I suggest looking into your states lemon law and consider applying the statute if applicable (www.lemonlawamerica.com).
you must be shopping at BILL HEARD CHEVY in Nashville. I also had the same run in with a unscrouples salesman there. I turned around and walked out, boy did he get MAD!!!!!
I'm also looking to purchase, I lean more toward the Envoy though, much cleaner lines (SLT) verses the (LTZ). But with the national recall, seems like it will be a few months before there are vehicles to purchase.
I am sorry to hear you had to rant and rave to get a better rental, that is not right. I have a fax from GM Service Operations that was sent to my dealer on April 6, at 3:34pm and he gave me the fax, and it says,
"With regard to courtesy transportation, dealers are to provide the customer with a comparable GM vehicle that the customer is comfortable with until the campaign repair is made to their vehicle. General Motors recognizes that providing customers with a comparable vehicle, such as another SUV, may exceed the $30 per day Courtesy Transportation Guidelines. In the interest of customer satisfaction any reasonable additional cost will be covered"....GM SERVICE OPERATIONS
That is GM policy, word for word, comma for comma. So the dealer must have been the problem. I agree with your assessment of the 2001 Tahoe versus these rigs.
I am configuring the Trailblazer at http://www.kbb.net/carsdirect.html.
Apparently, for one...if I choose the LT...I cannot get 16" wheels. And if I choose the Preferred Equipment Group 1SE, I MUST have leather seating surfaces....since they are part of that Preferred Equipment Group.
Basically I want EVERYTHING the LTZ has to offer, EXCEPT leather seats. What I was saying, your seat surface is based on your Preferred Equipment Group, it is not an independent selection.
So my question is...is there ANY way to get a fully loaded LTZ with all the trimmings and just have custom CLOTH seats as opposed to the leather seating surface??? Honestly...if I must...I'd deal with the leather seats because I want all the other add-ons from the LTZ package.
Fill me in please!!!!!
mmateyak
Pewter is the color i want. The truck looks incredible in pewter.