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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • blrmkrblrmkr Member Posts: 40
    1. Has anyone had the fuel gauge, engine temp gauge, and battery gauge max out completely to the right after a key-on and stay that way? The speedo and tach were fine. After several key-off/key-on cycles, the gauges seemed to correct themselves.

    2. I got another random Service 4WD Lamp illumination this a.m. while in 2HI. It went away after a key-off/key-on. I had the switch replaced a couple of months ago. Strange...

    It's very humind in MI now. I hope that is not the cause of these electrical problems that are starting to appear as I get ever-closer to the magical 36k mile number.
  • lurker01lurker01 Member Posts: 103
    I will have to check the invoice, but they did reprogram some or all the computers, bringing the code up to date as part of the TSB's. I suspect that this new 'feature' was just snuck in with everything else. Being a SW engineer myself, I know that this is a common occurance.

    As to the tips on WAX and dusting, thanks for the idea. Unfortunatly, living in the NW and on a dirt road gives plenty of opportunity for rain and dirt/mud. :-(
  • dieselnerddieselnerd Member Posts: 12
    blrmkr, I believe your problem is addressed by TSB 01-08-49-006 Instrument Panel - Erratic Indicators/Gauges/Pointers
  • tbltexttbltext Member Posts: 21
    Put 250 miles on the truck this past weekend and everything went super, stayed under 70MPH to allow break-in. Got about 19MPG highway, quiet interior (once rode in a 00' Benz S600 ((a 100,000 dollar car)) the TB is very close to being as quiet WOW good job GM...Although I still have the hiss sound from the AC (it's not a drip on the exhaust) can't see or pinpoint anything under hood that could cause it, it's more like a vacuum sound type hiss..I'll let you know what I find when I bring back to dealer at 1500 miles for oil change and check up..so far so good (fingers crossed)..
  • tom_stom_s Member Posts: 23
    Price of either the tb ext or envoy xl
    My wife wants leather and the higher models
    Thanks in advance
    -Tom
  • funitsfunits Member Posts: 55
    jwinky,

    The "chatter" I and others have experienced occur with the Locking Differential:

    Most often it occurs when I exit the highway, come to a complete stop and make a LEFT HAND turn -- the rear end "chatters/vibrates slightly" for a second or less. Did not happen all the time -- I never had it happen making a right hand turn or going straight ahead from a stop.

    Since the rear differential gear oil was changed last Friday, I have not had it happen to me in the "usual" places it chattered before. I hope the "chatter" is gone for good!
  • xtocakxtocak Member Posts: 5
    We've had the vehicle for over two weeks now and we've been amazed at the quality, the ride, the power and the value of this vehicle. No defects when we received the vehicle, no noises, no squeaks, no problems. I've read alot on this board about the nightmares of TrailBlazer ownership but believe that (as in most cases) people are more prone to complain alot quicker than offer up praise and highmarks for something. Let's face it, if you've got a problem, you're going to make it known right away whereas if everything is running fine, you don't normally feel a need to "spread the joy". I do feel for those who have had problems as I experienced it with a 1999 Ford Explorer but feel that the TrailBlazer is a very good vehicle with alot to offer. Those who didn't have problems with their Explorer probably felt the same way I do now about the TrailBlazer.

    We love our TrailBlazer as we spent three days testdriving Toyotas, Suzukis, Jeeps, Dodges, Fords, Hondas, Mazdas, Subarus, Volvos, Kias, etc., but found none of them to offer the comfort, conveniences, and value for the money we paid for the TrailBlazer. Granted, we've only got 700 miles on the vehicle but if the future ownership experience of this vehicle is any indication from the past two weeks, this is going to be one fine vehicle for our family. We expecially like the straight 6 engine and the ride of the vehicle.

    We picked up a 2002 TrailBlazer LTZ 4x4, Auto, Leather, heated seats, 6 CD/AM/FM, DVD player, loaded with everything except the sunroof for just over $29,000. Probably could have done better on the price but we were happy and weren't in the mood to haggle any further. Total price was $30,965 less the $1,750 rebate for a balance due of $29,215.

    Would we purchase one all over again if we had the opportunity? You bet.
  • tbcreativetbcreative Member Posts: 357
    If you haven't already, check out the new Motor Trend! It has a press release photo from Buick of the Bravada replacement, the '04 Rainier, and the latest info and pic of the Envoy XUV, based on the GMT 370 platform.

    The Rainier looks like it will be a worthy replacement for the Bravada when it gets phased out along with Oldsmobile in a couple of years. It's aggressive grill and headlights are remniscent of the BMW X5, and the wheels look pretty good. But the best news for Buick is that it will have the V8 in addition to the I-L 6, making it the only GMT 360 sibling with that engine option. Smart move for Buick to give it an edge.

    The GMC Envoy XUV (no longer called the Equinox) has all the characteristics of the Avalanche/Escalade EXT, but also has a "roll-top"-type rear cover that closes over the bed, accompanied by a combination swing and drop tailgate (like station wagons of days gone by).

    For more on both, check out Motor Trend. Just passing along the latest...
  • johntrjohntr Member Posts: 71
    The storable settings for driver 1 & 2 that do work are the radio, HVAC, autolock/unlock, lock/unlock feedback & language. The new option was driver memory seat position (On remote/Off) which I don't have on my LT. There wasn't specifically a setting for the mirrors. Since this work has been performed, I have noticed a distinctive beep when I use the remote now. I don't know if that is normal or indicative of an error. Everything works better than before, so I'm not questioning it to the dealer. The beep is not annoying. It annoys my wife when the horn beeps for the lock feedback, so I turned it off for her (Driver 2), but not for me (Driver 1) :-).

    The service performed involved a new body control module and software. The service invoice did not get into specifics on what was actually installed, but I'll look again and give you the part numbers. Maybe that may help you find what you need. The driver storable settings did not work until I had this work done. In fact, the remote fobs always reported as Driver 1 before the work.

    John
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    "Price" (What you agree on for the vehicle) should be the same amount regardless of how the vehicle is purchased. Currently (on CarsDirect.com anyway) it looks like you should be able to get one for $800-1200 over factory invoice BEFORE the $1,500 - $1,750 rebate. You might be able to do better if they have the one you want on the lot. Just make sure you bring with you the invoice price from Edmunds or the like so you keep them honest. If you are talking about "money factor", I would get pre-approved before going to the dealer from GMAC and have them (you'll have to almost demand it) give you their best money factor as the dealers are very inconsistent with them. Since the XLs are still considered '02 vehicles you are going to get a big surprise when you look at the residual amount. I purchased my Bravada in 5/2001 and just checked with dealer last week about the residual NOW on the same vehicle if purchased today and it has dropped nearly $3,000. You might be better off waiting for an '03 since it will be the "second model year" and should have a higher residual value.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    Just got my Bravada back yesterday. They installed a new "Encoder" for the SmartTrack and a new set of radio buttons on the steering wheel (has anyone else had a problem with the black paint chipping off???). The vehicle drives better than it has since I got it. I really believe the encoder was bad from the start.

    Regarding the Mirrors and rear tailgate seal: The dealer still cannot get part numbers for them. They keep telling him they are in "redesign". Does anyone know anything about this? He called GM Parts yesterday while I was there even.
  • mdeymdey Member Posts: 90
    Many years ago my family and I made an annual trek to visit my parents 800 miles away. Because we had small children and we were younger and more energetic, we would drive overnight so as to dispense with the dreaded "are we there yet?" We started out for our return trip about 9 p.m. on a Saturday evening only to discover that one of the headlights on our 3-year-old Ford Taurus was out. Now this is a big city. In fact it was Detroit. Care to guess how many auto parts stores were open in the motor city at 9 p.m. on a Saturday night? Yep, zero. We wound up driving 800 miles, much of it at night, with one headlight. I now buy a headlight bulb almost immediately for any car I buy and I keep it in the toolkit I maintain in each car. Boy Scout? No. I learned the hard way and I won't make the same mistake twice.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I wonder if the 24 hour Wal-Marts stock enough lamp varieties to make it worthwhile to seek them out? Of course, none of the Detroit Wal-Marts stay open past 11 pm; odd, since all 5 stores in Boise are open 24 hours....

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    Most of the time if a headlight goes out, you can give it a slap or two and it will come back on. It must make the broken filament pieces touch togther or something, but it works like a charm. (for a while at least)
  • tom_stom_s Member Posts: 23
    Thanks very much for the info. So you think I should wait. I jsut assumed they'd have better
    deals on the 02's to clear them out.
    Now how do i get to know the money factor?
    Thanks again
    -Tom
  • mdeymdey Member Posts: 90
    I am back. As previously reported my family and I took a two-week vacation to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons and points in between. Four of us--two adults and two teenagers--and our luggage all inside the car (and I could still use the rearview mirror!).

    We drove from Columbia, SC, to Jackson, WY, and back. We put 5,200 miles on the car between the trip out and back and local driving. Here are some details:

    TB LS 3.72 differential
    5,200 miles
    13 days
    changed the oil before leaving
    changed it when I got back
    Averaged 21.7 mpg
    $354 in fuel
    High fuel mileage for one tank: 25.3
    (another tank hit 24.8)
    Low fuel mileage for one tank: 16.8
    Low fuel price: $1.18 in Columbia, SC (regular)
    High fuel price: $1.69 in Custer, SD (premium)
    Highest elevation reached: about 9,000 feet above sea level (I used a portable GPS)

    The car performed well. The high mileage was heading east and descending the slope running about 70 mph mostly, with a tailwind. The low mileage was doing 80mph into a 30mph headwind and climbing 3,000 feet in elevation over 250 miles in
    Montana.

    Crosswinds were tough and I wish I had taken the roof rack cross bars off. I did diagnose the wind roar through the door panels in the crosswind. The cowling in front of the windshield is hard plastic to the edge of the hood, and then it transitions into a rubber material out to the fender. The crosswind will push that rubber portion down and allow wind to rush through the door panel.

    I never noticed any performance issues at anytime time related to distances or altitude. I did have to buy premium fuel much of the time in the mountain states because the regular grade was usually 85 octane and the mid-grade fuel usually contained 10% ethanol. Only once was I forced to buy ethanol: Topeka, KS (the only option on the turnpike). The performance drop was noticeable.

    Our longest one-day drive was about 850 miles. The car performed flawlessly from climbing to descending steep grades (I used lower gears a lot) to traction on wet gravel roads (the locking rear differential engaged successfully several times).

    I changed the oil when I got home and it was slightly darker than it is when I change it at 3,000 miles, but it still looked fine (I use Castrol 10w30 and an AC filter). The car burned a small amount of oil on the trip, but it still filled the two holes on the dipstick (maybe 6 oz.).

    It now has 16,000 miles on it. Build date is 11/01. I have no negatives to report. It performed as expected.
  • mdeymdey Member Posts: 90
    Regarding my earlier post, it was like 1991 and the composite headlamp was a relatively new item on cars. I tried Kmart and Meiher (sp?) to no avail. None of the discount places were open, nor NAPA or a Ford dealer. The bulb was black and definitely out for good. I'll never make that mistake again. Driving all night with one headlight really bothered me.
  • hmaximohmaximo Member Posts: 22
    Somehow You found the strength to go on living though.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Somehow You found the strength to go on living though.

    Hmm with an attitude like that I guess we should go back to horse drawn carriages! :)

    -mike
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    Regarding 85 octane, it's not a problem using it in the mountain states.
    Because of the thinner air at altitude, less cylinder pressure is generated so you can get away with lower octane gas. I use it all the time and never experience knocking or pinging.
    85 octance here is basically equivalent to 87 octane at sea level.
    As for gas containing ethanol, you'll get worse gas mileage, but I don't buy that there's a performance penalty. You actually get more power out of an alcohol burning engine because alcohol requires less air to burn and getting enough air into the engine is the hard part about performance.Anyway, I don't think 10% enthanol is enough to really change anything either way. Maybe Tim can make a few dragstrip runs with gasahol and see what happens.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Thanks for the "rest of the story." I carried some tools but no spare parts on my last big road trip, figuring I could let the jobbers stock stuff for me. But I wasn't in any hurry and never drove at night. I'm getting of an age where I can't see that well at night even with two working high beams :-)

    btw, I'm at 2800 feet and haven't noticed 85 octane off-hand; seems like it's always 87. This farm state (Idaho - I'm about 8 hours from Jackson/Yellowstone ) is keen on methanol, but I'm not convinced of any of its touted benefits.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • dukegordondukegordon Member Posts: 1
    My 2002 Bravada has 14k miles and just had the second encoder motor installed. The firt one was at 4500 miles. The dealer tells me that this is an ongoing problem and GM doesn't have a fix. Anyone else havivg this problem? I'm not happy!
  • sean48sean48 Member Posts: 37
    Has anyone heard about new features or options slated for the 2003 Envoy? I'll be making my decision in the August-September time period, and the Envoy is still in the running (thanks to all who have posted their experiences here). As I've mentioned earlier, a DVD-based navigation system is a "must" for me and one of the reasons I'm seriously considering the new 4Runner (though I haven't seen the new version yet and, of course, need to drive one). Thanks for any early info...
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I heard will NOT get the DVD/Nav system. I think that Toyota is slowly spreading apart Toyota from Lexus in that you can get the Nav/DVD stuff in the Lexus and not the Toyota version.

    -mike
  • tlaurotlauro Member Posts: 504
    Tom


    you should jump over to the yahoo lease town hall area and ask. the host there can get you the residual and money factor. Also, check out my site section on leasing too. consider the factors and what your needs are. high residuals aren't the best. it will lower your payments, but lesson your options and ability to move out early.


    http://www.timlauro.com/leasing/lease-index.html


    let me know if you have any questions. happy to help. Not sure what the residuals on the 02's are now, but the 03 XL's aren't changing much if at all but will probably cost more and it's too early in the year for residuals to drop overall due to model year events. programs changed, but the model year decreases don't occur until September.


    tim

    former dealer


    "So you think I should wait? I jsut assumed they'd have betterdeals on the 02's to clear them out. Now how do i get to know the money factor?"
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'm hoping by "yahoo lease town hall" you mean our own car_man and KCram, who host the Finance/Warranty/Insurance Board.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • tlaurotlauro Member Posts: 504
    that's the one!

    "I'm hoping by "yahoo lease town hall" you mean our own car_man and KCram, who host the Finance/Warranty/Insurance Board."
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Actually a 4.10:1 is a higher numerical ratio than a 3.73:1 or a 3.42:1. The confusion sets in when people try and relate the rear end gear ratio to "high" vs. "low" transmission gear modes.

    I have the 3.42:1 in mine and feel the performance in city traffic suffers. On the highway it gets about 21 MPG but most of my driving is on city streets. The 3.73 seems a good compromise. Get the 4.10 if you plan to tow anything especially with a full load of passengers. From what others have posted the city mileage between the 3 choices seems similar, but the highway mileage is what seems most effected. The engine RPM will increase about 10% with each change up to a higher numerical ratio.
  • crj1crj1 Member Posts: 70
    I work for a GMC dealer and the lease's on Envoy's will not get much better that they are now. Its 52% for 36 months 15K and 54% for 36 months 12K, with 750 dealer cash plus lease loyalty of $750 if you qualify. The Envoy and Envoy XL is the same.
  • tbcreativetbcreative Member Posts: 357
    Sorry, Paisan, that's not what I've heard from 3 different Toyota insiders. In fact, the 4Runner will have just about all of the same features as the GX 470 as option packages, with the Limited having all the bells and whistles, of course. Word is the new SR5 Sport Edition will be set up for the true off-road enthusiast, which includes the GPS Nav., and height-adjustable suspension, among other great innovations like a locking center dif. and electronic brake assist. I really love the new Envoy and Trailblazer, and hate making the leap from GM, but I'm afraid for my off-road needs, the '03 4Runner is going to meet and exceed them, while still giving me things like rain-sensing wipers and day-time lamps, all packaged in a body about the same size as the GMT 360s. The major differences between the GX and 4Runner are the GX has a right-swinging rear door, while the 'Runner retains a liftgate with power window and has a power assist for closing, the 'Runner will have a 245hp/283lbs/ft V6 in addition to the 345hp/320lbs/ft V8 shared with the GX, and the 4Runner won't have the 3rd row seat that the GX will have, at least in it's first year of production. For more info jump over to the 4Runner forum, where you can skim for posts from myself and others of Toyota insiders.
  • tomwilson1951tomwilson1951 Member Posts: 7
    We had the dead battery problem on our Bravada when it stranded us at the BWI Airport at 2:00 AM. I printed the Tech link article from Tim Lauro's site: http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/pdfs/march-2002-bulletins.pdf and insisted that they test for the parasitic drain. It is apparently a very time consuming and tedious procedure that took a couple of days, but they finally did find the problem...the HVAC control module was causing a sporadic power drain. They replaced the module and we have not had the problem since. Hope this helps.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That's the first I heard of the 4runner getting the Navigation, glad to hear it, I'm a big fan of Japanese truck (TLC, Trooper, Pajero, 4Runner, Patrol)

    -mike
  • allenrallenr Member Posts: 89
    I had my encoder motor replaced on Tuesday. I'm still getting binding when doing low speed turns. It's almost like the transfer case is stuck in 4wd at all times. I know this is very hard on the drive train and the tires. The front tires are getting warn-out on the edges. They said it was road tested with no problems. Did not feel on the drive home but it was still binding when I parked this morning. I might have them change out the transfer case fluid as that has seemed to help some Bravada owners fix the problem?

    Allen
  • tbcreativetbcreative Member Posts: 357
    Glad I could brighten your day! I just hope all the insiders aren't pulling my leg and trying to get me all excited...but I doubt it. That's an important function to me as well, especially with all the available off-road trails here in Arizona that are given GPS and mileage coordinates in my Arizona Highways off-road book. It can get pretty confusing out in the desert or up in the mountains. It will also be handy with all the travel my wife and I do throughout AZ and California.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    :) I currently tote along my laptop with 15" screen, but in about 5 years when my Trooper hits 250K I'll probably sell it and be looking for another true-truck/offroader and right now the only ones I can find are the Montero, TLC, G-wagen, and Land Rovers that would fit the size & Offroad requirements. Hopefully the new 4-runner will be big enough to fit the bill.

    -mike
  • gmdronegmdrone Member Posts: 78
    What is the big thing with having GPS and Navigation tools in your automobile? I've been boating for 40 of my 46 years, I own a 70' Hatteras sport fish, and while I have all the bells and whistles, (sat nav, plotters, Loran, radar with all the interfaces, sat phone, dish link for computer and sattelite), I still trust my own seat of pants or dead reckoning method of navigation at all times while I am out of sight of land. I can't tell you how many times I have been long distance ocean racing ( blowboats, or sailboats) and laughed myself silly when I hear other skippers on the VHF/SSB calling for help in locating themselves because all of their electronic gizmos failed at the wrong time, either because of electronic failure, or freak of nature. On the water, one has to be completely aware of one's surroundings and position at all times, after all, I am responsible for my crew and passengers, and frankly I wouldn't want to so much as scratch the gel coat on my 'ol Hat. I tend to drive my vehicles the same way. I don't want any of that nav stuff in my vehicle, at least not until they put it in a heads up display that would allow me to see it without taking my eyes off the road, it's too crazy out there on the road to take your eyes off it for even a milisecond. Of course, usually one finds that other boaters are somewhat cognizant of what they are doing as well, just like my fellow pilot friends as well. Notice that I said, USUALLY, because I have noticed a lot of "newbies" out there that turn the key and go, but they don't usually last anyway, if you know what I mean!

    Regards,

    Mark
  • mdeymdey Member Posts: 90
    The problem is I didn't consider the lower octane issue before I left. I have never encountered it before. The first time I saw it I stood at the pump and thought to myself that I know there is some scientific reason why it should be ok to use it, but I was more comfortable with shelling out the extra dough and let the computer adjust for the higher octane.

    As for ethanol, I have never been impressed with it and there was a discernable difference in performance from that tank to the next tank, which was 100% gasoline at 87 octane. Not only did I notice a performance difference, but my wife did as well.

    Oh well. It was a fun trip, the truck did great, and the tools stayed stored for the whole trip. And 21.7 mpg is nothing to sneeze at.

    I will add one other observation. The truck has outstanding power, but there is a limit to its performance. While I was able to run 80 mph fairly often west of the Missouri River, I found that the suspension was really at its limits with a load at that speed. The Bilstein shocks are impressive, but I found that the truck wallowed at those speeds on a mildly challenging road, and the dampening pistons in the shocks would kick in on more challenging roads creating a very harsh ride effect. It may have the horsepower for high speeds, but it is an SUV and it does have its limits. 80 mph seemed to be its limit. Thus ends my report.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    I tried ethanol blended gas ( it said 10% ethanol on the pump) a few years ago for about 6 tanks. Mileage on my 4.3 V6 went down almost 2 MPG and there was definitely a noticable "sluggishness" and less power. Also as I recall, in an alcohol (ethanol or methanol) fueled vehicle, it takes about double the alcohol in the air/fuel mixture to make the same power as gasoline. I guess that's why it takes "less air" to make it work, because you have to richen the air/fuel ratio so much to approach the same power. It has a slower burn rate too and inherently high octane, so the racers that run methanol can run 14 or 15:1 compression to squeeze more power out of it. All ethanol seems to do in passenger vehicles is make the ethanol manufacturers richer and cost consumers more money from reduced mileage and less power output. I hope there will still be a choice when the federal mandate that was signed into law in the recent "Farm Bill" goes into effect. I DO NOT like the stuff. My 2¢ worth.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    I test drove a Pilot a few days ago and while it was nice and slightly more car like than our Bravada, the Bravada offers more luxury and power for less. We used to swear by Honda cars, but in the truck world GM definitely offers more truck for less especially after incentives kick in.

    Still happy with our 02 Bravada. No issues to report other than a rip off oil change at the dealer. I'll never do that again though I know not all dealers do this.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Looking at some of the press release stuff, the Pilot is a unibody built SUV ( vs. the body-on-chassis Triplets) so since it is more like a passenger car the way it's built I reckon that's why it seemed more "car like" . Give me a full frame body-on-chassis truck-based SUV ANY day!
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    the only problem with Toyota pouring the options on the new 4runners... I'm guessing the price is going to go up to match! The DVD Nav alone is a $2500 option (and pretty much worthless IMO). If you want GPS, buy a good portable unit. I'm sure the new 4runners will be nice, but $40K for a loaded 4runner. I'd rather buy a year old TLC.
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    The good thing about DVD navigation systems is that they must be making a killing on them. $2500 for something I can buy for under $400?

    This is good because then dealers can reap in huge profits from people buying navigation systems and perhaps allow better deals to more sensible folk.
  • mil6753mil6753 Member Posts: 71
    My 2002 Bravada has what I consider a loud whirring when accelerated from a stop during 90+degree weather. I've only noticed this in warmer weather. The sound happens until the transmission shifts. Anyone else experience this? What should I tell the service dept when I see them Saturday?
  • jwinkyjwinky Member Posts: 59
    tblazed,

    Be thankful you still have the choice of NOT running 10% ethanol. Here in the midwest (St. Louis), I can't remember the last time I saw a pump that didn't have the dreaded "Contains at least 10% ethanol" label.

    That being said, I gues I am used to it. If it makes a 2 MPG difference, I would be ecstatic with my fuel economy because I am getting about 17 - 18 in 60/40 highway/city split with the 3.73 rear end and ethanol currently.

    JAW
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    That comparison was back before we got "volunteered" to use MTBE in our gas in '96 as a way to appease the EPA. It is normal to expect up to a 10% drop in mileage with that stuff too. They are finally phasing out MTBE after we all knew all along it didn't work to "clean the air", is a carcinogen, gets into the water supply and is darn near impossible to get out once there. Ask Santa Monica, California what they think about MTBE.

    You guys have many problems (corrosion, alcohol's affinity for water etc.) with the gasohol in cars that sit stored most of the time? That's my big concern with that stuff.

    I am impressed that your TB gets such mileage on the gasohol since that's where we are eventually going here in D-FW too. That darn federally mandated oxygenated fuel deal...
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    There's nothing wrong with ethanol, unless you consider clean air and lower dependance on foreign oil to be problems.
    GM even recommends the use of oxygenated fuels in their engines.

    It does need to get cheaper, though.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    You must work for ADM! Or been watching those commercials (If we need more then we just GROW more!) When I see corn for 69¢ an EAR in the grocery store it makes me wonder just how much the stuff would actually cost without government subsidies to produce. Also it takes a lot of energy just to grow the corn and convert it to ethanol. More energy to produce than it yields according to some "experts". Tests I have seen show ethanol actually burns dirtier in some aspects specifically hydrocarbon emissions. But hey it "helps the farmers"! And helps get those farm belt votes. I digress... sorry!

    Lets see... a 10% ethanol/gasoline blend reduces MPG by 10% so you use 10% MORE of the gasohol. Seems like that uses up any savings in imported oil that might be gained. That extra fuel to make up the loss would be 90% gasoline/10%ethanol too, so the net is maybe a 1% reduction in imported oil to be refined into gasoline. Not including the energy it takes to produce the ethanol. Got to figure that in too. And depending on the weather to be able to grow the stuff is not real assuring either. Oh well...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A loophole in the CAFE law gives (gave?) automakers "extra-credit" for building cars that can run on ethanol. So GM, et. al. made sure they had dual-fuel capability.

    link

    I'd hate to think what the state of the US economy would be without the subsidies we give to industies and infrastructure that otherwise would be economically unfeasible.

    Someone feel free to drag us back on topic.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    Naw, I don't pretend to be a huge ethanol cheerleader (except for human consumption), but I do know chemistry.
    No way does it burn dirtier than gasoline. That's simply not possible.
    Actually, the government pays a lot of folks not to grow corn. Otherwise there'd be too much supply and farmers wouldn't be able to make any money because prices would get too low.
    Seems like if we needed more ethanol we could tap into that land we're paying people not to farm.

    That said, it still can't be as efficient as digging up old dinosaurs, but most of the price of gasoline is tax, isn't it?
  • steveb24steveb24 Member Posts: 5
    To mil6753,

    I have a 2002 envoy and i have the same noise i was told it was caused by the ac and the fan. I don't know if you noticed it as well but there is a severe loss in power.
    Steven
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