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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • Filmclip, sorry to hear about your experience with your Envoy. Did you look at the Expedition chat before you bought one? You may have jumped from the fire into the frying pan, I hope not for your sake. Not to make too much light (no pun intended) of the situation but the last Ford I owned was a '67 Galaxy that started on fire. Odd that the first Expedition post I read (see below) had to do with a "smoking" Expedition situation that sounds problematic. I have driven Expeditions many times as rentals and they are nice but gosh are they big. I prefer my Envoy XL SLT over the Expedition anyway and it has been very good to me since purchasing in May. In your case, it sounds like you could have used an advocate to help you with your vehicle problems.

    Here is a post #3 from the Expeditions Problems chat. Maybe you should check out the site.

    Smoking Expedition... by bodyman Dec 26, 2001 (10:53 pm)
    Hi everyone. I will soon learn what my dealer has to say about the blue smoke that comes from my 2002 4.6 Eddie Bauer. It was noticed at around 250 miles. On initial start up in the mornings, I get a LARGE puff of blue (oil) smoke. It doesn't happen for the rest of the day, once the engine has some heat in it. When I dropped it off at the dealer today with 600 miles on it, the service manager told me he has seen others doing it, and it is "normal". I love the truck, but I will not keep a new vehicle that smokes when it is started. Can any of you offer any similar experiences, and what was done about it? I can't find any TSB material online that relates to this problem, nor have I seen it mentioned in the 500+ posts I just read. Thanks for your input.
  • Well went to the body shop after being rear-ended. They do not feel the frame is bent, but they are keeping it open. Total bill $2600, wow, I wonder what it would be like if we did not have the trailer hitch.

    Bumper about $400, and bumper guard about $400, parts only, no labor or re-finish included.

  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    If you'll look closely at the boards the 2003 Expeditions have had VERY few problems. In the months since it has been out there FEWER problem complaints than in the first TWO months of the triplets.

    Quite narrow minded of you to write a post like that about a '67 Galaxy and then an older Expedition when we are talking about new ones.

    Can't wait to get my new '03 after GM buys back my LEMON Bravada. (I know, I know, an Oxymoron.)
  • 2002slt2002slt Posts: 228
    Here's one for you, "Ford quality".

    I just couldn't resist. :)
  • If you'll look closely at the boards the 2003 Expeditions have had VERY few problems. In the months since it has been out there FEWER problem complaints than in the first TWO months of the triplets

    Can we please put away the Ford Expedition cheerleader outfits?

    I don't care if the Expedition is the most reliable vehicle ever. It's still too ugly, too heavy, and too sluggish.
  • This vehicle is awesome, but I have noticed alot of wind noise on the drivers side. Is this normal? Is there a fix for it? I have an 94' 4 runner, and it is quieter than a 2003 Chevy???
  • I am about to take my suv back to the dealer for Change Oil Light check cuz it doen't flash after I complete the three pumps on the gas pedal withing 5 seconds. The dealer agreed and ordered part for my passenger side shoulder harness retractor problem.

    Anyone has change oil light problem?? Please help.
  • Plenty of us here have experienced the wind noise with the drivers side door. To be it seems the door is out off a centimeter or milimeter or something small. I havent seen a way to fix it unless you use a new thicker door sealer. I havent seen any posts about a fix, yet.

    Bulb replacement isnt too bad. It can be done without taking the grille out. I had to remove the airbox, but that was it. Was able to fit behind and get the hands in to replace and I have replaced a couple to date. Not the bulbls that came with it, but aftermarkets I probably touched when I thought I diddnt. Anyone know if a HID kit is available for the TB? 22K on my truck and STILL LOVE IT!
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    Re: resetting the oil life indicator... save yourself a trip to the dealer.

    Info - GM Oil Life System - Resetting #02-00-90-001
    GM Oil Life System™ -- Resetting
    2002 Chevrolet, GMC S/T, Utility Models (TrailBlazer, Envoy,) and Olds Bravada

    These vehicles have an oil life monitor. The GM Oil Life System™ will show when to change the engine oil and oil filter. The GM Oil Life System™ must be reset after changing the engine oil and oil filter.

    Resetting Procedure
    The current Owner's Manual contains the following reset procedure:

    1. Turn the ignition to RUN with the engine off.
    2. Fully press and release the accelerator pedal three times within five seconds. If the CHANGE ENG OIL light flashes for five seconds, the system is reset. If the light does not flash, repeat the procedure.

    However, it has been found that after completing the reset procedure, the CHANGE ENG OIL light does not flash as stated in the vehicle Owner's Manual.

    If the CHANGE ENG OIL light goes out after the reset procedure and does not return after the next ignition cycle, then the system has been reset.

    If the vehicle is equipped with a Driver Information Center (DIC), then reset confirmation can also be done by verifying that the Engine Oil Life percentage value has reset to 100%.

    Use the above information to prevent the inadvertent replacement of the instrument cluster if there are comments that the oil life reset feature does not work.
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    "On initial start up in the mornings, I get a LARGE puff of blue (oil) smoke."

    EXACTLY what my '88 S-10 4.3 V6 did when I 1st bought it new. Dealer had to install a valve stem seal kit to keep oil from leaking down the valve stems overnight. Used to blow a huge cloud of blue smoke at initial start-up in the mornings.
  • Just got my Envoy back after being in the shop for 12 days. My truck was stalling at stoplights when cold. Throttle body was replaced. Prior to that in August, the PCM was replaced to fix the same problem.

    Now this morning, after being supposedly fixed, engine idle dropped down real low twice, almost stalling.

    I'm wondering if running the heater, using the heated seats, and cranking the Bose is putting too much of a load on the electrical system. I also have ECAS, and notice a dip in idle or engine shutter when that kicks in.

    Anyone else have this problem?
  • Thankfully you weren't on your "signature" vehicle when this occurred!
  • "I also have ECAS, and notice a dip in idle or engine shutter when that kicks in."

    I've noticed this a couple of times on my Bravada when the compressor starts. Not nearly all the time (and the compressor runs fairly frequently), and I haven't discovered a pattern as to when it affects the engine speed.
  • Is it possible to go to the dealer and get the car door realigned?
  • I knew I would generate some feedback about my re-post of an old Expedition smoking problem in response to filmclips pronouncement of his Envoy as a lemon. Here is my defense and response. I don't think it was "narrow minded" of me to do so when I clearly stated that at first glance of the Expedition Problem postings (post # 3) I found "problems" with the Expedition and was merely pointing out that the grass is not always greener on the other side. Shall I look for more recent problem posts? No, but I am sure the Expedition is not trouble free either. I also stated that I have driven Expeditions on many occasions as rentals and that they are nice (does that make me "narrow minded" too?) Second, I suspect that filmclip is a Ford owner who doesn't even own an Envoy. Third, if filmclip does own an Envoy, he should know that the Expedition and the Envoy are not the same size class of vehicle and therefore are not comparable. Fourth, filmclip's stated argument for his Envoy as a lemon seems rather weak. Filmclip was throwing in the towel at 2300 miles (is there a 0 missing?) Manual break-in instruction says not to drive over 55 mph for the first 500 miles so there are only 1800 miles of total vehicle evaluation here. Do gauge issues and plastic coming loose on the third brake which inhibited the use of the rear lift-gate/window make a vehicle a lemon? Filmclips stated lemon argument did not indicate an un-driveable vehicle but clearly stated the vehicle was "worthless to me" because the rear hatch would not open more than half-way without scratching the paint. I think it is unfortunate that filmclip lost an investment because the truck was "worthless" for the issue cited, but it was his personal decision. Plus, I have a big problem with the unethical decision to unload a vehicle with issues at Carmax: where is his concern for the motoring experience of the next owner? Does that conscious decision make him better or worse than GM? Sounds like a "narrow minded" issue on the owners part to me. We should all be striving to do the right thing. And, I don't think he will get much sympathy from GM since he has unloaded the vehicle at Carmax nor will he be able to get his case to arbitration. I heard first hand of a buy-back happening through arbitration, to a Toyota Camry,when the owner had become convinced she had a lemon and was afraid to drive it. But, you have to retain possession so an independent evaluator can drive it and make a decision. Filmclip won't have that chance now. Very unfortunate.
  • 2002slt2002slt Posts: 228
    How much did Carmax give you for your Envoy? I'm sure you must have taken a huge hit on your "investment" if you actually did this. If you did, you must be loaded.
    Good luck with your Ford!
  • Cparise: I did own an Envoy what can I do to convince you? Give you the VIN? You suspect me of never owning an Envoy and of being a Ford owner.
    I could just as easily suspect you of being the president of GM.
    I decided to get rid of the Envoy versus waiting for a long drwn out arbitration. The dealer did not want to cooperate with me or loan me another SUV. The dealer's story changed when a local newspaper reporter asked them about my GMC: Professional Grade Lemonade protest across the street from the lot.
    The rear hatch was so bad that I could not even get me dog in the back. I had to break down the dog gate and take it out via the rear passenger door. Sure it's just a piece of plastic, but how many pieces of plastic are in an Envoy. How many were going to break in the future? How many times would the guages have to be replaced?
    Screw the lemon law and arbitration rules! If I bought a new stove and the oven door didn't open all of the way, I would get an instant fix or a replacement. Why should a car or truck be any different!? (They cost a lot more than stoves too!) As for unloading the lemon on Carmax, they were made fully aware of the rear hatch problem and they can get a free replacement part when it is ready. Yes I took a hit on the trade and yes I'm slightly loaded. Taking a hit in my eyes is much better than dealing with a problematic truck.
    GMC will settle with me, even if I end up taking them to court. No...I don't have the truck, but I have plenty of documentation.
  • pauleulpauleul Posts: 116
    Hey filmclip, bet you 5 bucks you never get a dime out of GM.

    You will however dump a significant amount of your "load" in legal costs in your attempt. You will also spend a lot more time and effort trying to get your money back than you would have in getting a minor problem fixed had you gone about it in the right way. (all just my opinion of course)

    Did you ever consider just leaving your Envoy with the dealer until it was fixed? Or take it to a different dealer? Rent something in the meantime? It would have cost you less than what you lost in trade I'll bet. You also would have had a good case after 30 days or so if GM didn't fix it.

    Just hitting 10,000 on my plastic Envoy - still no problems - all plastic holding up well. Maybe my lemon just isn't ripe yet. Has been a much better truck than my last 3 Ford Exploders. And no, I'm not anti Ford.

    Best of luck on your Expedition. It is a big sucker. I considered one but the garage just isn't big enough.
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    filmclip: You sound just a little impatient. My TB LTZ had a major engine problem at 2600 miles. The dealer I bought it from gave me a loaner and said they would call me when the engine was replaced. I admit, I would have preferred a new car, but the rules ruled that out.
    Anyway, a filmclip is supposed to give you an idea of what a movie is about. It doesn't tell you the whole story, you have to wait through the whole movie to find out what happens. I think if you had given GM a chance, they would have fixed the door.

    Happy New Year Everyone

  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    I'm a bit jaded as I just sent in my 18th lease payment but have no Bravada to drive :-(

    On the other hand I've been lucky enough to spend nearly $500 on rental vehicles while the dealer has my [relatively] new $37,000 vehicle.

    I guess the moral of my statements are: Those of you who haven't had the problems shouldn't judge the people who have and are fed up and/or have just given up on their vehicles. Most of us who have had the early '02 triplets have been here from the beginning and, while you may not see it, after a year and half of the same things, some major and some minor, it's quite clear that The General was not at all ready to release these vehicles to the buying public.

    Other than a few exceptions, I haven't heard an out-pouring from those of us with major problems telling those of you who haven't to ditch your vehicles. I would say, in general terms, those of us who are eagerly waiting the time when we don't have OUR peices of junk are happy, even maybe a little jealous of you who have not had the problems.

    I sure do miss my Bravada.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    As a reader of this board from almost day one and the happy owner since 7/01 of an 02 Envoy, I would suggest that for 2003 we all resolve to treat each other and this board with respect, compassion (for those with problems), and, at times, good humor. I have been lucky. Some who post have not. If I was having problems like some people here, I would want to vent as they do. The bottom line is lets make the board less "personal" and focus on the vehicles. This is America, and we are blessed with the freedom of choosing what we drive and saying what we want. If we keep it civil and avoid personal attacks for merely stating an opinion, everyone can enjoy reading the posts a lot more. In my practice as an attorney, I see way too much nastiness. The last place I want to see the same behavior is on this board, which I read for recreation and information. Best wishes for a safe and happy 2003 to everyone!!!
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Well said, Hardhawk! I think I'll link your message to a few other discussions :-)

    Steve, Host
  • Hi Everyone & Happy New Years!! My husband and I looked at and test-drove a 1994 Bravada this afternoon. We both liked how it handled and it was in great condition. Now, neither of us are "car experts" so when I found this forum..I thought I'd just put this out there to those of you who might have an insight on the issue. I was just wondering if anyone has had any "success" history with a car of this age, make, and model. I know we will have to have it all checked out mechanically before we buy, but I just hoping to find some feedback .. good or bad.. about this vehicle. Thanks for any input..
  • Lets clear up two points.
    The dealer would only give me a Chevy Caprice or the like as a rental. They outright refused to give me a loaner resembling anything close to an Envoy in size or ride.

    Taking my Envoy to another dealer wouldn't help.
    There is no part anywhere to correct this problem until GM releases it.
    It's amazing that when I posted about my screwy gauges, none of you chimed in.
  • filmclip - Did your gauges jump all the way to the right and then back to the left? That happened in my Intrigue right before my battery went dead. They later determined the battery cable was loose on the terminal. Did you check your battery cable?
  • gam2gam2 Posts: 316
    Filmclip: save your money (or send it to me!). There are no states that will support a lemon law type lawsuit based on your problems. Most require 4 tries for the same fix or 30 days out of service. But hey, it's your money..... All I got for a loaner when my Bravada was in the shop was a Prism or Cavalier. I would have been thrilled with an Impala. There has to be some type of fix, even temporary, or else everyone else on this board would be complaining.

    As to your Ford, more good luck. I had an Explorer I bought new that I later found out was wrecked at the factory, repaired and sold new. It had many problems, but I sold it after 3 years so I didn't take a big hit on depreciation (for a Ford anyways).

    Happy new year to all!

  • This isn't directly related to the Trailblazer, but we have one and this is one of the boards I read, so I just want to warn everyone about a sleazy dealer.

    We were driving to Hayward, California today, about 250 miles from home, to buy a new 2002 Camaro for me. I had a quote from the dealer from GM buypower, but it turned out to be useless.

    We called the dealer on the way down to let him know we were on our way, and when I mentioned the price, he told me that it was including the rebate. This would mean that the asking price before rebate is $20,762, over $1300 ABOVE MSRP. I mentioned that I had a quote from a dealer for one with an MSRP that was $1,000 more that would actually be a couple thousand cheaper and he responded "I don't think so." He seemed to think that his price was great because "They don't make Camaros any more and they're in high demand."

    We pulled over and I called the dealer direct and asked to speak to a manager. I was connected to the guys boss, who said that there was probably a misunderstanding, and that the price was $14,762, but that they don't say $14,762 because taxes are calculated on the original MSRP. He even gave me an out the door price of exactly $16,264.01, including all taxes, license, and fees. This price may seem extremely low, but the price we were originally given was slightly over Edmunds TMV. The sticker was $19,030, (it was a base model V6-the only option was a rear window defroster) and there was a $3000 rebate.

    About 20 minutes later, my cell phone rang, and it was the sales guy. He told me that "it was inappropriate to call his boss when I'm dealing with him" He told me first that the price after rebate was $16,000, and then told me that he would give it to me for $15,762 after rebate, and if "I didn't like his low prices I shouldn't buy the car." I asked to speak with his boss again, and he said "I don't think that's a good idea, bye" and hung up on me.

    This time we pulled into a rest stop about 100 miles from home, and my dad called the dealer direct again and asked to speak to the guys boss. She gave several prices, none of which were anywhere our original quoted price, which I discussed with him on the phone on Sunday. I think the last quote I heard her give was actually about $1000 higher than the original increased price we had been offered. She also said that "somebody had an appointment to buy the same car tomorrow" and asked if we wanted to pay more.

    I hated this dealer so much by then that I didn't even want the car anymore, but we kept talking, trying to get their story straight. She said that the price we had was no longer valid. My dad then got the price quote we got from them that I had printed out, which said "Price valid until vehicle is sold." She then told us that it was sold, but we could still buy it for a higher price.


    We drove a total of about 250 miles today, and made over 30 minutes in long distance calls on our cell phone.

    This WOULD HAVE been our third new GM this year, but I guess that doesn't matter much. Just stay away from Hayward Chevrolet in Hayward, California.

    We already called GM, and they basically told us that quotes from the dealers made through are not binding on the dealer, so just a warning if anyone plans to travel a long distance to pick up a car that having it in writing doesn't actually mean anything.

    I know this post is incredibly long, but this is by far the worst dealer I have ever encountered, and I want to let people know about it so they don't have a similar experience.
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    pewterbird 2002: have you learned nothing from the internet? Rule number 1: The person you think you are chatting (bargaining) with on the internet doesn't exist. They are either a deputy sheriff conducting a sting operation or they are a fantom being who will never show his face. You sound like a relatively young buyer in the auto mart. Get used to dealers being hardened bargainers. They know all the tricks. They are not your friends. By calling them long distance to let them know you are comming, they know you will most likely buy at any price instead of going home without a car. I once told my daughter to cry in front of the salesman and I would be the tough guy refusing to budge on my offer. The salesman didn't budge and I had to raise my offer. They're hardened, we aren't.

  • cparisecparise Posts: 33
    Happy New Year to all. Considering the state of the economy, the stock market, multiple war's pending, and terrorism lurking behind every corner, we could all use just a little break for the better in '03. Best wishes to all.
  • The gauges on the Envoy went bezerk.
    At a stop I was supposedly doing 85 MPH.
    I had no idea how fast I was driving when the truck was in motion. The gas gauge went all the way past full to under the E. All of the gauges looked like clock hand in a cartoon, spinning around any which way they pleased. Professional Grade....yeah right!
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