Lincoln LS

goodyrl · February 2001

I took mine into Olson (Omaha,NE) for the tranny re-flash and to get the headliner replaced. They gave me a 2001 Continental with 600 miles on it to drive.

They did a great job and yessssssss they also wash the car.

A good experience. Car running great just love it

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

I know, I know, it was supposed to be East Coast. But after spending the last two weeks contacting every single race track that had a paved track on the east and midwest for open dates in the June through August time frame, the only track that had dates available was Memphis. Memphis has a road course though you can't tell from their web site which only shows the oval and the drag strip. www.memphismotorsportspark.com

They currently have the dates of July 12-15 open. I am getting the cost information faxed to me tomorrow. We are shooting for a maximum cost per person of $300 which we're hoping will pay for the track rental for 2 days, instructors, hotel and dinner for three nights and lunch for two. This is in line with what the SVT Experience cost.
We are still in the initial preliminary planning stages but this is what we are thinking of for the days:

Thursday 7/12 afternoon/evening: Arrival and Welcome Party
Friday 7/13: Discussion tracks with Lincoln folks, Track training time, LS race car, lunch served at track, evening dinner and pub crawl.
Saturday 7/14: Discussion tracks, track time, LS race car, lunch served at track, need to be off the track by 4:00pm for drag racing event. Evening dinner and awards
Sunday 7/15: Pack up. Depart.

This is VERY tentative. Families are welcome. We plan on providing alternate entertainment for them and the kids will be in a protected area in one of the track suites. We're thinking about bringing in an 1/8 scale slot car setup so we can have match racing between the engineers and owners! Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I will be asking for volunteer help for this one on the arrangements etc.

We will be requiring deposits once all the details are ironed out, and once we know definitely that we have the track reserved.

Brian

giowa · February 2001

This is the dealer I ended up going to; worlds better than Bluffs Lincoln, in my experience. Haven't tried Quality Lincoln. We'll likely run into each other some day there, though I hope for normal LOF, rotate, etc. and not warranty or recall work! If we do, I'll buy you an adult beverage. (Can't say I enjoy constantly talking to or seeing Advisor Tim but I do like looking at and talking to the pretty office person I always deal with afterwards.) Ask Tim for the LS8 loaner. Don't mind the hard rock station radio presets. Go Z-92.

My wife thought she saw your car there the other day when she picked it up after the tranny reflash and airbag light repair work.

rkh1 · February 2001

I am looking to purchase a 2001 Lincoln LS V8. I would like any input that would help confirm this car would be an excellent choice. What would be a fair price for this car? I live in southern California. Would there be any reason to purchase the V6?

Thanks for your help.

marsha7 · February 2001

a decent L/M dealer in Metro Atlanta, with a competent service department?...I realize that you may be reluctant to post the names of bad dealers, but please tell me who the good ones are, the type that are willing to do these re-flashes, window changes, etc....there are a decent number of L/M dealers here, and "something" tells me that some will be MUCH better than others...thanks.

Yes, you are piqueing (sp) my interest.

rayainsw · February 2001

Motor Trend (and Cadillac) are sponsoring an opportunity to test drive some cempeting makes' offerings.

"The program offers the opportunity to test drive premium models from BMW, Cadillac, Jaguar, Lexus, Lincoln, and Mercedes-Benz. "

The link (with a number to call to make reservations) is:

http://www.motortrend.com/feb01/drive/drive_f.html

Cheers,

- Ray

Who might attend the Atlanta area day - just for the heck of it.....

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

marsha7,

Took a look at the LLSOC registry to see who rated the highest. Looks like Wade LM in Alpharetta rated a 5. Frank Jackson LM in Sandy Springs rated a 4 and a 5. Don Jackson LM in Union City and Spartan LM in Southlake both garnered a 5.

Brian

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

Not to burst Ray's bubble, but it almost sounds like they are aiming for the Caddy STS crowd. Bet the Linc they have will be the Continental.

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

Don't forget Mark's chatting tonight on LLSOC at 5:30 Pacific, 8:30 Eastern.

Be nice to ls1bmw0 until about 6:15 Pacific. Even though it looks like me it's actually Mrs.ls1bmw0 handling the duties until I can make my hour-and-a half drive home. And she's had a bad day with the kids! We have the transcript turned on and everything should be set.

Chat at ya later....

Brian

Pappas · February 2001

Hi all --

After much pained deliberation (just ask my wife and friends!!), I have decided to order a BMW 525i over the LS-V8. I am thankful to be in the lucky position to have that difficult choice to make. And thanks to all of you here for some great advice on the LS. I commend Lincoln for a fine job on the LS, but simply put it is outclassed by the BMW, fit-and-finish-wise, and even with the less powerful engine.

That being said, I thought I would offer the group the best price I was able to negotiate without setting foot in a dealer. In fact, the dealer just 2 miles from my house essentially said I was dreaming. Well, it's a great dream that could become reality to those who want the LS. Here it is...

*Any LS-(V8 or V6) factory order for $100 (yes, one hundred) over dealer invoice. That could probably be negotiated down further by about $500 to take advantage of the current "free" 6CD changer promotion when one buys the sport package. With all the dealer incentives and rebated that Lincoln Corp is offering, this deal provides a target profit for the dealer of about 3%, very fair by Edmunds standards.

So, good luck, and please don't be too mad about my purchase. Remember, the BMW is what I DRIVE, not who I am. Peace.

giowa · February 2001

Don't apologize. It is a great car. Outta my price league. Hope you enjoy it. See if you can pick some road races with any LS8s you might meet on interstate. New or used? What did you pay? MSRP? Did you get the Sport?

Pappas · February 2001

My LS would have been identical to yours. I opted out of the sport pkg on the BMW because of the z-rated tires (live in NJ). Car is 525iA with conv pkg, premium pkg, CD, premium sound, folding rear seats (yeah all a la carte -- just like fine German restaurants?!!).

Not the neck-snapping torque of the LS V-8, but ample power with a ride-on-rails road feel.

reneleblanc · February 2001

If you scan back over the many previous posts on this board, you'll find just about every nit you can pick about the LS as well as an overwhelming percentage of very happy LS owners. I think you'll get a lot of confirmation that the LS is a great car for a great price.

Reasons to get a V6:
1. If you want a manual shift, you can only get it with a V6.
2. The V6 is several thousand dollars cheaper than the V8.

Reasons to get a V8:
1. More power and LOTS more torque
2. Silky smooth operation
3. Gets almost as good fuel mileage as V6
4. Probably better resale value

Prices:
I'm not up on current prices in So Cal, but many others on this board can probably give you some numbers.

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

If anyone wants to see what the used price of a LS in their neck of the woods is, click on the Edmunds TMV(True Market Value) link at www.llsoc.com. It allows you to input mileage, zip code, options, and condition and returns back the dealer resale, dealer trade-in and retail prices. Seems pretty accurate.

Brian

heyjewel · February 2001

So, where did Pappas come from? Is he a buddy of Giowa's? He knows exactly what G's car is like?
So, let me parse his post:
He commends Lincoln for a car that is "outclassed by the BWM 525, fit-and-finish-wise, and even with the less powerful engine." Well, I'm sure they'll be jumping for joy in Irvine at his faint praise. Of course, he doesn't mention that the BMW he describes is at least $9000 more expensive than a comparable LS. And the LS is bigger inside, has a 20% bigger trunk, and makes 15% more horsepower with the V6 and over 30% more with the V8. Fit and finish? I picked up my new LS yesterday and the fit and finish was almost impeccable. (More on that in another post.)
Then he generously offers us his 'help' by revealing the price he was able to negotiate over the phone (although his local dealer told him he's dreaming ** where are the dealer(s) who made him the offer?**). "Any LS-(V8 or V6) factory order for $100 (yes, one hundred) over dealer invoice." I suppose that's possible. Though anyone on this list who paid more is likely to be unamused by his help. Of course, there's no proof this was a real offer.
His next statement brings a lot of doubt to my mind: "That could probably be negotiated down further by about $500 to take advantage of the current "free" 6CD changer promotion when one buys the sport package." Mr. Pappas, do you understand the difference between a 'promotion' and equipment **included** in a package? I hope you got $1450 off your BMW price for the 'free' leather upholstery included in your premium package.
He also claims:"With all the dealer incentives and rebated that Lincoln Corp is offering, this deal provides a target profit for the dealer of about 3%, very fair by Edmunds standards." Incentives and rebateds (sic)? Name them, Mr. Pappas. Sure good to know he's informed enough to know the target profit to the dealer. I wonder what profit was made on his 525? Very fair at his $400 under invoice deal? I guess all of us who paid more than that got screwed! Hey, thanks for the great post, Mr Pappas, you've made us all feel so warm and fuzzy.

BTW, I'm not mad at you for your purchase, I don't care what you drive, just be sure to keep your 184hp beemer out of the path of those driving the more powerful LS V6s and V8s. But I did not appreciate your hearsay, mistakes and untruths in your post. Please go play with the Beemer boys. We'll be here driving the best American sedan ever made and saving or spending our $6000 to $9000 we saved by not falling for the BMW hype.

Personally I drove both. Found the 525 too 'sterile'. Manual tranny was not as smooth as the LS and the power level more on a par with a Taurus. Oh, and you can't get a CD changer in the beemer.

ezaircon4jc · February 2001

Where have you been? Out driving? :-) Your last post was poetry. I've been trying to figure Pappas' post myself. I liked the fact that we could all get a "great price" from a phantom dealer. Now, go out and get that motor broken in! Don't let Mrs. Heyjewel ace you out of the driving

.

stanny1 · February 2001

The BMW has a really primitive suspension design vs the LS. Note how the mags always compare the diminutive 3 series with the LS because the 5 series is so overpriced and wouldn't turn in the same numbers as the lighter 3, since the 5 is heavier with the same engine. Wait until he sees the service and parts prices! Brake pad wear is so bad on European cars - I know - I have a purple heart from 2 Volvos. Really - the value is in the LS, but you have to appreciate it's engineering to understand the difference. We know.
Stanny The Coneinator

stanny1 · February 2001

Isn't your Manual a [non-permissible content removed]? Don't you just hate driving it? Don't lose faith! Just keep puttin on those miles. Like a buckin bronco, she will finally settle down. Give her a little time for the shifts - she doesn't like to be rushed. When you stall at the intersections, just smile and say "one more time is one less time". 3500 miles will soon be there. Think about an oil change - stay with Dino oil-it's a long break-in. Now that I've got 9500, I think my Manual is ready for Syn. I'm going to change my Getrag from Redline MTL (too thick) to Redline Syn Auto Tranny fluid, which is more recommended. The 2001 Getrags should have motor oil in them. Check your owner's manual and let me know. Enjoy! Stan

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

Not exactly high expectations since he came out of a 1998 Chrysler Sebring convertible.

So of course he would go with la Beemer, feels more like a front-driver. Wait until he pays for his first brake service at 15,000 miles and finds out the dealer will want $650.

Brian(whose tongue is firmly in his cheek!)

heyjewel · February 2001

ezair, gkarg, georgia, brian, stanny1, joe and johnny linc, and all you other LS fanatics - I got it! It's in my garage next to my '65 Park Lane conv't. The Mark is in the street with a for sale sign on it :>(

I actually did a double-take when I walked out there this morning and saw the red LS instead of the white Mark. What a nice sight. The car looks much more aggressive from the front than I ever realized, with the low stance and the wide tires.

So I took the day off yesterday to pick it up early. I couldn't wait til 7PM. Got it at 2. First off, the dealer was **great**. The whole sales experience, from ordering over the phone with no hassle, adding advance trac a month later, getting it delivered a week early and getting a good price was better than with any car I've ever bought before. During the process, I spent a total of probably 2 hours talking with the dealership owner about the LS, Lincoln, Mercury and more and at no time did I feel like he was patronizing or feeding me the 'company line'. His office door was always open, and it's right on the showroom floor. Usually the VIPs are secreted somewhere on the 2nd floor with 2 levels of appt secs between you and them, IME? Oh, yeah, the dealership is North Bay Ford Lincoln Mercury in Santa Cruz California. My salesperson - Bobbie Robinson, she's the fleet sales mgr. Been there for 12 years. Recommend her highly.

So, on Tues, I had found a total of 3 nits with the fit of minor exterior body pieces. And I do mean nits. Dealer fixed all of them without question. The car had not yet been PDI'd when I first saw it, so those things may usually have been caught in PDI anyway. After they PDI'd it, the paint just shines wonderfully. At the right angle, one can see a bit of 'orange peel' but it's very minor and I'm very happy with the way it looks. And I'm not easy to please - I forced GM to repaint my brand new Chevy Tahoe in 1997 because of noticeable orange peel.

I spent some time getting to know the service manager as well. I arranged to bring it in for an early - 3000 mile - oil change. At that time, I'll see if any problems shake out. He's agreed to order a new HVAC fan to install at that time because mine is a bit louder than a couple we compared it against. Only other thing is that twice the radio failed to come on. Restarting the engine cured it. I'll keep an eye on that and if it doesn't work flawlessly, he'll replace it at 3000 miles. Other than these nits, the car is flawless, as far as I can tell so far.

The Autumn Red looks great with the light grey interior. The seats are wonderful, although I wish the passenger seat was 8-way instead of 6. Yeah, I got a chance to sit in the passenger seat while 'Mrs Heyjewel' :>) took it for it's first twisty test. Man, you shoulda seen the smile on her face! This is the best .... This is great ... I **love** the 5 speed ... are some quotes! She sped down a 2 lave, very lightly travelled road oht behind our house, twisting and turning, shifting between 2 and 3 a lot at just the right times. It was awesome. When she turned around, I said 'Hey, lemme drive it back on this road.' 'No way!' was her answer.

So when we got home, she started dinner and I programmed the Homelink to open the garage door (which, BTW, took me about 15 seconds!). I went back in the house and said ' Honey, I'm gonna put the LS in the garage. I'll be back in a half hour!' So then it was *my* turn down the twister road. What can I say? You folks all know how it feels! Solid. Confident. Tight. Smooth. And I though the Mark 8 handled that road well ... So I look down at the speedometer once and I'm doin 55! (In a 25 - but no kids, no cars, no houses anywhere around) and the car wants to go faster! Geez, Louise! OK, so I won't do that on a regular basis, but now I know what it can do. Seriously, the car is much better than I remember from test drives or autocross. The 5speed and clutch work like a knife thru butter, and the V6, with 26 more HP and 30 ft-lbs more torque than a 525i :>), is gonna do just fine. I took it out on the freeway too, at night in the rain. Just awesome. Rain-sensing wipers a dream, love the look of the dashboard (though 2 more guages would be nice). Oh, and how about lighting the wiper stalk? I had to stop to set the wipers on 'auto' 'int'.

So, that's it. I couldn't be happier. Except if I hadn't come down with the flu yesterday and had to cancel my 3-day photo trip to Yosemite starting today. Oh well, guess I'll get to drive the LS this weekend instead of the Tahoe.

Thanks for a great car, Jonathon, Mark, Dick, Jim ....

George (Sorry for the looooong post)

heyjewel · February 2001

Just saw your post about the 'bitchy' tranny. I gotta say, and maybe I'm too easy to please here, my last 5speed was a '92 Prelude, but I found the tranny/clutch to be just fantastic. So after a few K miles it'll get better? OK, I'll take that. :>)

George

lolaj42 · February 2001

Sorry all for starting the discussion/argument with “you know who”. What really grinds my gears are the incessant rants spewed by the car rags knocking the LS’s suspension and handling when compared with a car that has a significantly shorter wheel base, narrower track, lower weight and is generally a much smaller car. Further, there is no real discussion on how they arrive at their conclusion. I certainly don’t need to be reassured by a car rag that I got a vehicle that offers great “bang for the buck” . . . I already knew that and arrived at the conclusion without having to read about it! I agree that people can compare whatever vehicles they like, and use whatever criteria they like, I just think it’s a waste of paper for C&D to compare the BMW3 to the LS in terms of handling. What I’d like to read about, particularly when making ride/handling comparisons, is the type of maneuvers the driver is executing, the condition of the road the car is driven over, and how the cars being compared differ. What is good to one person may be abhorrent to another. I for one just got out of a true sports car (1990 300ZX), manual transmission and all, and am completely satisfied by the handling characteristics of the LS. I’m not saying the LS handles like a sports car, but it rides/handles fantastically. I cannot say the same for the 3 series BMW. For the life of me, I can’t figure out exactly why the car rags are so enamored by BMW (any BMW . . . they haven’t driven one yet that they haven’t raved about). I guess it’s just safe to knock American cars in general while applauding German engineering (damn the repair bills!).

My apologies to all, both for my rants, and for . . . oh, never mind.

airwolf1000 · February 2001

I used to work for FedEx Express but am now in FedEx Services. Which means I can't Fly on the Company Planes anymore! I can't fly in for free to LSMania in Memphis... Oh well we will see if I can make other arrangements. Drive Up maybe!

Regards,

Victor

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

heyjewel: I'd guess George and the missus have gotten bit big time by the LS bug! Glad to know that you are as enthusiastic as the rest of us whackos! Maybe you'll think about driving out to Memphis for LS MANIA 2001-MEMPHIS. BTW should I list your dealership in LLSOC under Outstanding or Honorable Mention?

lolaj42, did the Edmunds board do nasty deeds to your post or did you mean to put all those numbers in there? How'd that happen? I agree with you about the prejudicial attitude car mags take toward German cars. If the LS had a BMW badge on it and they tested it they would be raving about how great this German car was instead of bashing the car. I guess they can't get over the fact that the LS is in every right a world-class automobile.

airwolf: You could always FedEx yourself :>

P.S. I'm giving serious thought to driving to Memphis from SoCal.

So for LS Mania, should we still have the Spammies?

Brian

billincal1 · February 2001

George...Glad you are having a good relationship with North Bay Ford...I had quite the opposite with them about 10yrs ago and switched over to McHugh Lincoln Mercury In Los Gatos. I highly reccomend their service dept. Deklin and David go out of their way to make a happy face appear on you and your car. Laurie is fantastic in Leasing and always gives straight facts and numbers with no hard sell. Their Boss Harland McHugh runs a great LM dealership... They even shuttle me back to work..Mary, their driver, is so kind and sweet..I have come to know these people over the past 10 years and believe me there are none finer.

Bill

lolaj42 · February 2001

It appears that the numbers were inserted everywhere I used punctuation. I haven't a clue how that happened. Must be sunspots ;-)

heyjewel · February 2001

OK, so I just realized there was more to your message. I did check my owners manual (Sept 2000 second printing). Ready for this? The Getrag takes 2.3 pints of MERCON ATF. Was it always so, or did LM make a change, since you thought it should be motor oil? If so, could this be why mine may be a bit smoother out-of-the-box than had been predicted?

BTW, one little thing I just noticed - my right rear tailight says simply "LS" No 6 or 8.

heyjewel · February 2001

Bill;

Glad to hear you're having good luck there. Me? I actually went there first, worked with Laurie, almost bought an automatic 2000 LS, then finally decided, no, I wanted the manual (so did my wife). Guess what? Laurie said they wouldn't order the manual for me. They didn't want to "get stuck with it if I backed out." Who, me? Be a dishonest flake and back out? That's what they thought of me, I guess. Harland said a couple more things that I'm not gonna repeat here. But suffice to say, they will never get a dime of mine. So good luck to you there, I know the pendulum can swing both ways. But if you ever see a guy in an Autumn Red LS driving by McHugh, acting like 'Slim Shady' with one finger on both hands up, you'll know who and why.

george

Pappas · February 2001

I agree with all of you who love the LS. I am very impressed with it too, as I said. The repair costs on the Bimmer are a good point; never had one and will have to see.

Re: Phantom Price... The deal was not. If you are convenient to the PA/NJ area, contact Daniel Smith at Northeast Phila L-M. I was working with him over email for about 5 weeks as I was agonizing over the two cars. He is by far the best dealer rep I have dealt with; if I had decided to go LS, I would have went with him.

Did not intend to slam those who paid more ... you got a hot car with high demand and short supply. Rather, I thought those considering the LS in today's market would appreciate the info as encouragement not to take the dealer's word who says "we don't discount much on the LS."

Re the "free CD Changer Promotion." This was an ad published in the WSJ last Friday for Free 6CD changer with purchase of Sport Pkg on LS and some other package on Navigator. It was said to me by the fleet mgr at my company that, because it was part of a package, Lincoln will probably discount the invoice price of the Sport Package to the dealer to take into account the "free changer". Or else the offer would be bogus. It would be the dealer's honor whether to pass on to the buyer or not as a discount to the Sport Package. If true, worth a shot like everything else.

Re: Specifics on other rebates/incentives from Lincoln: Holdback = 2% of full MSRP + additional 2.5% rebate of total invoice on all 2001 models for being a 'certified Lincoln dealer'. For more info see the holdback section of Edmunds. Using negotiating tips from Edmunds, you can peg an offer at any% ---> Invoice minus holdback minus rebates plus delivery plus advertising (if applicable) plus profit (3%, etc..).

Enjoy your wheels.

klarson1 · February 2001

got really depressed after trying this to find my 15 month old LS is worth 8K less at tradein
anyone know how this compares to other vehicles?

Kevin
LS 2000 V8 moonroof, heated seats, audiophile,cassette deck, convience package,
special wheels, Cordovan with light graphite interior, tinted windows, 13000 miles.

klarson1 · February 2001

forgot to mention that the TMV didn't ask about the convience package.
this should add a few bucks.

Kevin

akirby · February 2001

Pappas - this would not show up as a discount to the Sport package. It will show up as the Sport package at regular price plus the cd changer at regular price. Then the price of the changer will be shown as a credit with "Free Cd changer with Sport Package" or similar wording. That's how I've seen them in the past.

BTW - how much was the 'documentation fee' that gets added to the $100 over invoice? My guess would be about $350 which really makes it $450 over invoice. I would be very surprised if you could buy a LS for only $100 over invoice plus TTG only without the doc fee profit. $500 over invoice would be about right, although you might be able to get a specific vehicle that the dealer wanted to get rid of for invoice or even below but that would be a case by case basis for existing inventory.

That "2.5% rebate" you mentioned isn't a rebate or incentive. It's just part of the holdback. There are no rebates or incentives on the LS. And you don't get the cd changer unless you buy the sport package, so you can't call that a discount - just a better deal on the sport package.

billincal1 · February 2001

George sorry they treated you so poorly, Like I said I have known them for 10 years and trust them explicitly. If Laurie balked at ordering you a 6 LS it may well have been for good reason (not for flaking out on her either, I think that is a pat line she may use to end the conversation of a 6 lease ..I assumed you leased?)

I will say this, once you are in their family you are treated with VIP respect..believe me! ..their profits come from you and the guy who buys your lease...their stats may not favor a quick 6 sell over the more "sensual" 8 (no offense to 6 owners...to each his own eh!) don't know?...anyway I trust you! and I hope North Bay does you right with service..that is the name of the game! Doing it right the first time goes a long way...looking forward to seeing you around big moody someday... I'm waiting for few fee's to come in and the dreaded tax meeting next month..hopefully I'll have a few bucks left to get that silver/with lite grahite int. (and those gorgeous charcoal gray rugs...mmmmmmmm!
Bill

billincal1 · February 2001

Has anyone heard of the after marketleather protection treatment that is supposed to help with cleaning...I used what AK Saltz tannery in Santa Cruz reccomends, on my 99 Continental...a very mild leather cleaner and conditioner. I forget the Brand but it has an apple on the label and works fine...anyway I was wondering if anybody had experienced this after marketleather treatement?

Bill

johnnylinc · February 2001

As I posted last weekend, the Kelley Blue Book LS price list is now showing a $605 discount off retail for the Sport and Premium packages on both automatics; Sport is now listed on Kelley at $1385 retail, rather than $1990. That would be the correct offset since the CD changer retails for $605 if you get it on a non-Sport/non-Premium car. This price reduction is NOT indicated on Edmunds, Carpoint, or the Lincoln website at this time.

Klarson1 Re: TMV. Since the convenience package is standard on the V8, I suspect it is already comprehended in the V8 price. On another topic, I looked all over for a description of dash panel removal, but I couldn't find one; I think it was probably discussed under the "old" Edmunds format, and unfortunately those posts are no longer available. Maybe someone still has it and can repost; sorry about that.

George: CONGRATS on taking delivery! The anxiety over the wait just disappeared when you slipped behind the wheel, didn't it? Oh, and you'll probably have to get used to hearing "No way." Maybe you should consider hiding her set of keys...:)

pat · February 2001

That will happen if you use a high-powered word processor such as Microsoft Word to compose your posts off-line, then paste them into the post box. If this is how you want to do it, use something less powerful like Notepad - the "sunspots" will not occur! :-)

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

georgiad · February 2001

ls1bmw0: I'd like to submit my dealer for your LLSOC Outstanding Dealer list. It's Beach Lincoln Mercury in Hungtington Beach, CA. Great group! Owner is relatively new and has brought the dealership up from a struggling one to a bustling, albeit small, facility. We went looking for a V6 with sport package, no Advance Trak (don't need it where we live and felt like the regular handling was just fine - didn't need to add on extra $$), no sunroof (been there, done that with a Volvo - $300.00 repair bill to fix ONE of the extender arms), and definitely had to be Pearl White. They didn't have one, but found one for us, traded another dealer and let us take the car out by ourselves for an hour before we signed on the dotted line. Our deal was $300.00 over invoice, not bad at the time. The service has been phenomenal. Ralph Rodriguez is the service manager and he has gone above and beyond in accomodating us as we try to figure out a buzz in the radio speaker. Only ding against them is they haven't washed it the last 2 times it's been in. "Miss Pearl" doesn't like to be dirty :-)

billincal1: I purchased the leather cleaner and treatment from my dealer. I was pleased with the results; used it on the doors where my 13 year old decided to wipe his "cheese puff" hands.
Great :-l I keep threatening that when he gets HIS first new car, I'm going to get in it and spill coke, candy, etc., etc., etc. and see how HE likes it!

heyjewel: de ja vu Your first drive with your new Autumn Red sounds just like ours! My husband supposedly bought the car for me - HA! HA! I practically had to wrestle him for the keys! Never seen him volunteer to go pick up the kids from practice or lessons so fast :-) The school's only 3 minutes away. Wonder why it took him an hour to get home? Hmmmm. Enjoy!!! P.S. You'd better put the LS in a pre-nup!

giowa · February 2001

Some posters here do periodically get carried away. A few are so enthusiastic about their LS's that they sometimes adopt an attack pack mentality towards those who don't fully concur with their views or deviate from the orthodoxy they adhere to & attempt to enforce. This seems to really apply to BMW owners. The lengthy diatribe directed against you was factually inaccurate, impolite, and unnecessary. I'd like to hope all relevant points of view can be shared in a polite way here and that we would welcome guests to our site. I may be in the minority on this view.

Hope you enjoy your 5 Series. (If you want to make "friends" here, post some notes telling us if you have any dislikes about the 5 Series, service/dealer problems, or mechanical & warranty issues. I hope you don't.) And please do encourage the BMW sites here at Edmunds to stay friendly to outsiders. I'd like to think the LS and 3/5/7 Series are serious, though friendly, competitors. Healthy competition is great. Isn't our goal to make all breeds better? Our wonderful LS included.

giowa · February 2001

Today's Omaha World-Herald published a lengthy Kansas City Star new car review on the '02 Explorer. Thought it interesting how it says: "An all-new [IRS] that is geometrically similar to the Lincoln LS pays dual dividends: ride & handling have been improved. There is less choppiness on rough pavement and it sits flatter in turns." Got me wondering if Ford's press people aren't doing this on purpose, pushing the discussion about the LS's IRS. At least many Ford buyers, who might be able to afford an LS, will see something positive about the LS. The '02 Explorer Eddie Bauer they tested had a $33K MSRP.

Article also discusses the use of AdvanceTrac in the Explorer. Too bad the new Explorer's side curtain air bags don't appear to be making it into the LS. LS needs rear bags and curtains to keep up with latest safety features that are now appearing in Passats, Saturns, etc.

goodyrl · February 2001

Can someone please tell me the dates. Thanks

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

July 12,13,14,15. Arrival afternoon of the 12 which is Thu.

Brian

heyjewel · February 2001

johnnylinc:
Thanks for posting about the $605 CD changer discount. Even though I had just bought my car on Thurs, I did not know about this. I regularly look on Edmunds and other places for incentives on the LS. Looked hard this week, as it was time for me to sign. Then I looked on kbb and the $$$ are subtracted from the cost of the sports pkg option, like you said. For the manual I bought, which comes std with sport pkg, there is a note on kbb that the price includes the $605 discount, but it doesn't look like it does to me. Hey - does my dealer owe me $605??

Pappas:
My ignorance of this discount led to a big inaccuracy in my response to you. Sorry bout that. However, you were still comparing a car that costs $9000 more than the LS when you said it totally outclassed the LS. So does a Bently. That was my point and what got my goat.

Now to Giowa. I recall months ago his incessant arguing with someone else over V-6 vs straight 6. It got extrememly tiresome, and was obvious to me that Giowa just would not stop, even when asked by several list members. Well, now it's my turn in the barrel. As you see above, he's made his opinion known about my post to Pappas. What is not shown above is that he's also emailed me at home with some harsher words and his ideas on how I should comport myself. And then he **emailed me again even after I asked him not too, saying it's his right to email me because I put my email address in my profile.** Can you believe this? I'm sure he thinks my mea culpa to Pappas above was his doing. Well, I'm certainly not going to argue with him. And I want to say right now I regret that I mentioned his name in my original Pappas response. I will waste no more of the list's time with this banal BS. And most of all: ***Giowa, be a man and respect my desire that your insightful prose NOT find it's way to my personal mailbox. *** My email is there in my profile so I can converse with those whose thoughts interest me.

George

pat · February 2001

Let's just keep to the topic okay?

George/heyjewel, most email clients offer a "block" feature so that we don't have to receive email from anyone we wish not to hear from.

I'm not singling anyone out, I just want everyone to keep in mind that your TOU (link on left sidebar) requires respectful and civil communications in Town Hall.

Thanks.

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

giowa · February 2001

You're the one bringing up people's names in your various posts, and not in a nice way. You were the one who lit into a visitor, Pappas. I haven't said anything overly "harsh" to you. Didn't you say I was "preaching"? That doesn't sound "harsh".

I don't think anything I ever said to you was like your response to me about Pappas' original post. Didn't you call it "insipid"? That was pretty harsh! And then didn't you say it had also struck others like that as well? Had to drag others in.

I'd be happy to share my two short e-mails to you and your one back to me. And then people could also look back the past 100 posts to see who is being polite.

Rest assured, I'll show you the respect and courtesy you show me and others. Don't ask us to play by one set of rules while you get to be as Nasty as You Wanna Be (wasn't that the 2 Live Crew song or album?).

pat · February 2001

Let's keep to the topic. We need to drop this discussion now.

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

scottc8 · February 2001

on the clock, as of yesterday. It's the same car I brought home from the dealer, except it's faster. Still have a big stupid grin on my face while driving curves or "sucking the foglights" off lesser cars on the highway. Still leave for work every morning wishing it was farther away. Still smile when I write the check to Ford Credit.
Getting pretty good at looking "cool" on the interstate while being stared at by the guy in the Lexus who did NOT accelerate to 75 mph on that tight little on-ramp back there.

Lincoln got this one just right.

Scott

joe166 · February 2001

1. Does anyone know how to take the cover off the "dome" light that is in what seems to be laughingly called an over head console? Some little insects have managed to commit mass suicide in there and their corpses are annoying. I have the non sunroof LS so it has two switches for the lamp and the glass, but no switch for the sunroof. It looks like it might just pop off, but I have tried with my fingers and it won't budge. I don't want to pry it with a screwdriver unless someone tells me they have done that and it worked since I don't really want to redo the headliner.

2. Am I the only person who has noticed that where the seatbelt goes across the drivers seat bolster closest to the door, the leather is wearing through? I have the parchment interior and it looks like it is wearing through badly in a line about 2 or 3 inches long - vertical and right where the seat belt rests when not hooked. I always wear mine, but that is just for location sake. I did not notice this until I went to treat the leather again this morning. My LS is about 14 months old and has about 17,000 miles on it. It doesn't seem reasonable that it should wear out this early. I am not particularly fat or akward so I don't think I have put any extra wear and tear on it. Any ideas?

azlels · February 2001

I just bought an LS V6 with everything but heated seats. I actually chose the V^ because after driving both the V* and the V^ repeatedly (the dealer never acted bothered) I determined that one of the reviews is correct when it said the V6 handles better because it is lighter in the fron. The 6 also seemed quieter to me. I realize some of you may disagree but I am happy with the V6. Drives great.

With the sport package it is stiffer than the 528 but I like that feel. Also the 12 speaker Alpine with digital processing is really great and costs $1100 on a BMW. The BMW has 48,000 and will go back in 90 days on a lease. It has been a very fine car but not without problems. I had to be towed for the front of the airport and missed a flight because the pump that regulated the level of gas between the two tanks broke. Also the catalytic converter had to be replaced. The dealer has been excellent. The car is still tight and smooth but the tranny is shifing pretty rough right now and of course it is only a 4 speed. You may have seen the Db numbers on the 528 and it is the quitest sedan made. The LS is about 4 Db's higher at 70 mph but I honestly cant tell a difference.

In my opinion the LS is really a much more fun car to drive and sells for $15,000 less. I actually got a 2000 for $5000 off sticker price and .9 % financing. I could afford to pay cash but why not keep the money in the bank and lst Ford credit loose the 5% interest? BMW is famous for ist seats I personally like the LS 8 way much better. The fit and finish (pearlescent white) is excellent on this car. No sqeaks or rattles. Hey I just read a review of a Mercedes 500 that had some. So I am looking forward to the LS after haveing had almost ever other luxury sedan in the last decade. If the 8 quiets down (the timing chain sang at idyle in the ones I drove) and get a stick s6 speed, Im sure I will want one based on 350 miles on this car.

Dont believe the Teutonic myth about Benz and BMW. They are fine cars but not what they once were in comparison to the American cars. In my view Lexus is also over rated especially when you add in the price to the equation.

jackjt · February 2001

I aggree with azalels and I don't even own an LS! However, I have driven them all and come to the same conculsion---BMW is overpriced and overrated!

azlels · February 2001

A few added details on the new LS V6. I drive a daily commute of 50 miles on mainly back roads. With the sport package the handling of the v6 is super. I dont need more storage either. I actually prefer the 2000 drink holder because I can close it when not in use.
The tranny must have been reflashed because there is NO hesitation and it downshifts flawlessly. It is a much superiour transmission to the 528 I have thus far.
A word on the simulated wood in the LS. I added the real wood dash kit which is superb. It really matches the simulated wood very well and basically changes the whole internal appearance. But lets be honest here, my BMW 528i also has simulated wood that looks fake at times. If you want real wood pay the extra $15,0000 for the Jag. That is the main thing you will be getting plus and engine with variable timeing. The BMW has this as have several other sedans I have had. For most practical purposes the average driver wont notice this. By the way by far the most responsibe engine I ever had was in a 1994 Q 45. What a hot rod that was and the V8 was amazing. In time they took the hot edges off of that car to try to compete with the Lexus 400. A big mistake for Infinity since you dont even think about the Q45 any longer as a performance car.
If Lincoln will continue to develope the LS it will become a legend. It needs more HP in both engines in my opinion. A 6 speed manual with the V8 would be great. If they blink and try to turn in into a car for rich middle aged women like the other Lincolnsnit will fade away. Time will tell for me but right now I am really enjoying driving this car.

Lincoln LS

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