Are you a current Michigan-based car shopper? A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/2 for details.
Both Logos look good to me, although my preference is for the LS with the spoiler. The widend fender flares clearly depict this LS as a race car, not a street car. My 0.02 cents.
I don't understand why there isn't a dealer jumping in to help Hector out.
I've mentioned the forum to my salesman, who is on the internet, and he nods politely but shows no evidence of visiting here. Darrin, if I'm wrong, let me know.
I'm convinced that a dealer salesperson who visits here regularly will sell more LS'.
I love the new logo without the spoiler. Bring the BMW's on!!!!
Will look great on a hat. My neighbor just bought a 20K embroiding machine. Brian, can you send it to me as a file and I can see what it would take to get a cap/polo shirt done.
I did a quick spoiler-ectomy last night, as you can tell. I'm having the artist redo it properly. I'm also going to keep the one with the spoiler around in case any one wants one that way too. Thanks for all the comments.
jdonnee: thanks and I'll send you both images as soon as she sends me the new one!
Now if you can remove the grey "roll bar" jumping out of the windshield. I think the majority of the club would like an image of a hot street car rather than a full race car IMHO.
I just took a look at the Registry. As of today LLSOC has a 104 registered owners. Not bad for two months and no advertising outside of the board!
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions, criticism(which you've all kept nice!), error checking and for making it a success. Much bigger and better things are in store for the site. Within the next two years the site will have a content level that other car clubs will drool over.
Brian (your grateful and happy chief cook and bottlewasher)
My dealer called me today to tell me that while he had 5 dealers on Tuesday with the car that I want he can't get them to part witht the cars. He tells me that he has the car I want minus the heated seat but they can install them there. My first reaction is no. Any thoughts on that? He also asked me to settle for a different color. I'm not about to settle for nothing when I paying these prices.
I'm inclined to agree with Gray regarding dealer installed seat warmers. At the same time, I had no choice at all when I went after an AS manual as only one could be had. Had to take it as it was. Would have preferred to have heated seats, but have had to do without. If someone has a differing opinion about dealer installed heated seats, I'd like to hear it.
I don't think you should compromise on what you want. Be patient ... or ...
I don't see a whole lot wrong with the dealer installing the heated seats. After all, they regularly have been replacing them, eh? Only additional thing for them to do is install the switches. I'm sure all the connectors are right where they should be in the wiring harnesses. If they screw up, then they will fix it for you. Make sure they know that.
I just remembered another item I would *love* to add to my LS. And I heard from a Lincolnite in LA that there may soon be one of these offered - I don't know whether it'll be 3rd party or dealer installed. What is it?
** A combination keypad entry system for the driver's door. **
Seems it can be attached to the B-pillar and hooked into the electronics and voila! No more worries about auto-lock accidentally locking me out.
I don't know the availability of this item, or even if it's on the market yet. Perhaps someone from Lincoln can confirm/deny this rumor?
Don't rush to a decision! IF he can install the factory parts and IF it's covered by factory warranty and IF you trust him to tear into your interior without screwing up something else then MAYBE go for it. Never compromise on color after you've decided. You'll hate yourself every time you see it. OTOH if you change your mind and WANT the other color that's ok, but don't do it as a compromise.
A good salesman would have sent you to the other dealers if he couldn't get them to deal. I can't believe a dealer wouldn't trade a LS for a Navigator or another LS. Go to another dealer and let them do the search if they don't have one in stock. This dealer may have a bad rep for swaps. If there are 5 cars out there I guarantee you can get one on your terms (or very close) without compromising. No need to even visit the dealers - just go down the yellow pages. Ask for the sales mgr, though, not a sales person. Worst case - just sit tight and wait. It's painful but you'll be happier in the end.
I waited about three months to get my 2000 Manual. The dealer started in April and found one in late June. I almost gave up and resigned myself to a 2001 since 2000 production stopped in June or so. San Diego dealers don't stock Manuals but Orange County/LA dealers do. So my San Diego dealer traded a Navigator for my LS and thus secured my place in history as the coninator. As they say, nothing worthwhile is easily obtained.
Got a call from the dealer. Apparently the COMP and SHUFFLE controls will not work correctly unless the CD changer is a FORD changer. So next week they are removing the AUDIOVOX changer ( , NOT) and putting in the FORD changer, which they should've done in the first place. I'm pleasently surprised that I won't have to fight with them over this. If any one installs an after market CD changer, test the COMP & SHUFFLE controls. On mine it took anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes to act up.
Much better W/O spoiler, but second (or third or fourth) what stanny1 said. Or, go for it! Bring back the spoiler & add one of those big stickers across the windshield that says "FEAR THIS". Just kidding.
When I'm busy, I just can't keep up with all these great posts. Please excuse this kindof late comment:
About a year ago, several LS owners posted a dusty, dry surface on their dash. A lincoln exec (dcupka perhaps) posted the TSB cure involving Black Magic Protectorant and Napa 3-M white applicator pads. My LS was affected, I followed the TSB cure, and the dustiness has not returned in the following year. Maybe it was a final treatment omitted by the dealers in final prep, and now required, maybe LM changed its manufacturing specs. In any event, we haven't seen posts about this problem since - but I can't help thinking there are a lot of 2000 LS's out there with dusty, dry dash's that did not get the message.
My car was delivered (12/99) with the dash condition you mentioned. Of course, the new car prep dep't made no effort to address it until I complained. I don't know what they did, but it was OK until just recently when it resurfaced. I used low gloss Armor-All and it's decent, but not what I'd like. Can you elaborate on the TSB? Thanks.
Re #294- I rec'd email reply today. They asked for my daytime # so that "we could discusss the matter further." More to follow
removing the console top is very easy. It was posted a few times in the past, maybe Brian will add it to the LLSOC website.
Remove the ashtray. Pull the fascia around the ashtray forward gently with fingers - it snaps out. Starting at the fron of the console top, lift it up. It is secured with about 7 fasteners along its length. As you pull up the front, pivot it up as if on a hinge on the back, passenger compartment edge. When all the fasteners are free, carefully pivot lift it off. The advance trak control switch is wired with enough play that you can flip the top onto the driver's seat, or simply unclip the connector and you can remove the top from the car.
I can not remember the part numbers, but Black Magic petroleum-based protectorant was recommended, applied with white 3-M applicators (look like scratchless scrub pads) which are made of woven white plastic fiber. The Black Magic is available at Pep Boys and almost anywhere. The 3-M pads (White, not green) are available from NAPA parts and are used in some form of body work.
I don't recall the specifics, but you just squirt the protectorant onto the pad, and rub the plastic until it penetrates. It doesn't take much. There is no residue left on the pads - you are not scratching the surface. The protectorant seems to alter the structure of the plastic molecules. There has been no evaporative vapor left on the windows, and I have never had to treat the dash again. It is now semi-glossy rather than dusty, flat gray.
The other day I noticed that both B-pillars on my car have some sort of cancer starting on them. At the bottom of the trim piece, beginning at the leading edge, they are changing colour. My friend with the V8 LS also had this and just got his replaced under warranty this past week.
Another problem area is the driver side rear door. The channel that seperates the two pieces of glass in that door, has started to rust. It's a small amount of rust, but it's there none the less.
One final problem involves staining of the paint just below the leading edge of the rear door on the driver side. Seems that whatever adhesive Lincoln is using to afix the chrome trim around the windows, is starting to seep out and then stain the paint. My car is black, so it is quite obvious. A co-worker of mine had the same thing happen to his 2 door Explorer Sport. Caused a huge stain and was a bear to compound out. I'm not positive that he got it back to original. My car has been clayed/waxed 3 times in the last 11 months and gets regular hand washes, so I've done more than I think is expected to keep a car clean.
I am going to try to get the digital camera from one of our sales people so I can take some shots and post to the web. I'll let the list know when I have them. All items will be dealt with under warranty, but I think this is entirely unacceptable for a car of this class/price/age.
The procedure listed below is copied from OASIS Special Service Message #12970 from Ford Customer Service. The material and application pad were selected to perform the cleaning without causing any damage to the dash surface. This is important because some cleaners and solvents can actually cause drying and damage.
SOME DASH TOPS MAY EXHIBIT A MOTTLED, BLOTCHY, DUSTY OR INCONSISTENT APPEARANCE. IF SO, PERFORM THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURE:
1. SPRAY 'BLACK MAGIC PROFESSIONAL PROTECTANT' (STOCK #31000BP) ON A FINE WHITE 3M SCOTCHBRITE PAD (STOCK #07445).
2. APPLY TO THE TOP OF THE DASH USING A CIRCULAR MOTION.
3. REMOVE ALL EXCESS 'BLACK MAGIC' WITH A CLEAN SOFT CLOTH.
4. REPEAT APPLICATION AS REQUIRED.
THIS PROCEDURE CLEANS AND PRODUCES A MORE UNIFORM APPEARANCE WITHOUT SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECTING THE GLOSS LEVEL. 'BLACK MAGIC PROFESSIONAL PROTECTANT' CAN BE PURCHASED LOCALLY FROM K-MART, WAL-MART, WESTERN AUTO, TRAC AUTO, GRAND AUTO, KRAGEN, AND CHECKERS. THE 3M SCOTCH BRIGHT PAD, WHITE IN COLOR, CAN BE PURCHASED LOCALLY AT NAPA AUTO PARTS AND OTHER 3M DISTRIBUTORS. (IMPORTANT) 3M PAD WONT SCUFF THE SURFACE OF THE DASH.
My experience at both Leith and Capitol Lincoln is that most of the service managers and quite a few of the sales reps are older guys who just do not care. Quite possibly do not even have a computer at home and would not know how to get to Edmunds.
In both cases, there was no passion about the car-it was just another Lincoln. What separates us here is that we all have passion about the LS including our friends at Lincoln like Mark and JR.
I believe that part of our frustration relative to the perceived slowness of Ford to clean up the dealer channel is the lack of passion in the Ford sales ranks as you go down the food chain to the Ford sales and service reps calling on the dealers. I never felt that they saw the vision that they had a BMW killer in their sales bag. It blows my mind when I can still walk the local dealers lot and see 20 new LS's and no manuals.
I thought I'd post this for those of you who would prefer to have the chrome rear license frame match the rest of your car. The following is based solely on my own experience and, as such, there are no guarantees, express, implied, or otherwise that everything will go perfectly. It is, however, a simple procedure, as long as you are careful and patient. In my opinion it dramatically improves the rear aspect of the car, particularly on darker colored Sport models.
LINCOLN LS REAR LICENSE FRAME REMOVAL, PAINTING, AND REINSTALLATION
1. Remove the license plate. 2. Remove the manual trunk release handle from the cable. 3. Remove the trunk lid liner by pulling out the sixteen plastic retaining plugs. I'm not sure if there's a neat way to do this. I ended up getting them started with some sort of an opposed edge wire-cutting tool I happened to have around, then used a pair of small wire cutters to bend up an edge of the head, and finally grabbed the turned-up edge with vice grips and wiggled until the plug came out. Unfortunately they're not good for much afterwards. This is not an elegant solution but it does get the retainers out. If your patience is limited I suppose you could cut the heads off but that would leave little pieces inside the trunk lid. 12 of the 16 retainers are a standard Ford item and can be easily purchased from a dealer or a parts store. The other four may not be so easy to replace so a little extra care in extracting them might be a good idea. Two go in the extreme lower corners of the liner and have the same size head but a longer shaft. The other two, which hold the liner to the lid supports, have a larger head and also a thicker shaft. 4. Remove each license plate light bulb/socket unit by twisting to the left 1/4 turn and pulling out. 5. Remove the electrical feed to the backup lights by separating at the plug connection. 6. Remove the six or seven (can't remember which but they're obvious) 7/16" combination nut/washers holding the frame assembly to the trunk lid using a 1/4" drive deep socket. Make sure you keep all the black sticky sealant attached to the washer and the lid. You'll need it again later. NOTE: Do not try to remove the frame yet or you will damage it. 7. There are two smallish elongated slots on the inside of the lid near the top of the frame on each side. If you look inside with a flashlight you'll see a plastic retaining clip which is actually part of the backup light assembly. Release these clips with light pressure and you can remove the backup light assemblies and the license frame. The deck lid is now much lighter than it was so it will fly up if you don't restrain it. Don't use the remote to open the trunk unless you're standing there with one hand on the lid! 8. Remove the license plate lights from the frame by pressing in the clips. 9. Leave all the weather-stripping attached to the frame. This, along with the black background for the license plate, should be masked before painting. 10. The Lincoln emblem is held on to the frame with double stick tape. The safest way to get it off in one piece is to use a hair dryer to heat things up and gently pry it off with something thin and flat like a knife. If you're lucky most of the tape will be intact. If not, get some from your body/paint shop. 11. With the color code for your car in hand, have the frame painted by somebody who knows how to paint chrome plated plastic. If they screw it up it will cost at least $125 for a new frame/light assembly!
12. Before reinstalling, it's a good idea to clean and wax the area under and around the frame. 13. Put the license plate lights back in the frame. 14. Put the backup light assemblies back in the frame and gently press the retaining clips on the back into the slots in the deck lid. 15. Roll the black sticky sealant you saved between your fingers until it's about the thickness of household string. Put enough on each washer to form a complete circle. 16. Reattach the nut/washers to the threaded studs and tighten firmly enough to squish the sealant. Be careful not to over tighten since the studs are attached to plastic. The stud on the back of the emblem location is particularly sensitive. 17. Reconnect the lights. 18. Feed the trunk release cable through the slot in the liner and reattach the handle. 19. Reinstall the liner with the appropriate push-in retaining plugs. 20. Reinstall the Lincoln emblem, insuring that it is well adhered to the frame. 21. Reinstall the license plate. 22. Enjoy your LS's new look!
Brian, Looks like posts 329 and 332 should be added to the LLSOC "how-to".
Having some dealer input on this board might be a good thing. It would be nice to hear from a dealer who is actually interested enough in his products to participate here.
Pursuit of mutual understanding among LM, Dealers, and us owners will benefit us all. And, maybe create a model that will be the envy of other manufacturers, and owners of other manufacturer's vehicles.
We probably should be careful in our assumptions about how typical of the average owner we are. As time passes, though, I believe that participants in forums like this will become more and more typical, particularly for a car with the character of the LS.
Thanks to bmcl for the frame removal procedure. I was intending to do the same on my black LS last year, but the spare time just didn't become available. Maybe this year it will happen. Just to add my $.02 worth of advice... If you were to lightly glass bead the frame, you would have a surface that was condusive to painting, and then you could do the painting from a touch up spray-pak. You could then avoid the expense of going to the body shop.
Just a thought with regard to getting some dealer participation on this board...
We've all complained about the problems that LM is having with their dealer network. I have on several occasions noted that LM's biggest problem is their dealer network. But I'm sure that there are two sides to this issue. The dealers probably have some valid complaints about LM management.
So why not allow them to express some of these concerns here and, hopefully, this board can become a vehicle to promote communication between the dealers and LM. Perhaps "we" can help to really solve some of the problems.
After treatment, the dash is semi-gloss. In certain lighting conditions (sun high overhead in front of car) there is some reflection, but never so much to really make a difference, but on the whole, there is not a substantive change.
Of course, throw a white parking reciept on top of the dash and you can read the letters in reverse, kinda "heads-up" display :-)
" swauger, where were you able to drive that fast? I haven't gone that fast since I tried to max every gear of a brand new 1985 Mustang GT in Colorado. I got smart/scared and never maxed 4th gear! If the LS drives like you say (I get mine this week) I better start shopping around for a radar detector now."
I did it on Interstate 4 between Orlando and Daytona. I pulled out to get around a group of cars running about 80 or so to get to clean road ahead, and some guy in a mid-70's Vette pulled out behind me so I just floored it. He looked quite depressed that I turned a 3 car lead to a 5+ car lead on him with a sedan. It was quite amazing how quickly it went from 80 to 130, and how smoothly. I had an 85 V8 Capri and an 88 Stang, 5.0, and it took far longer to get to 130, died at 130 (brick wall aerodynamics), and was really twitchy and nervous at that speed. The LS felt as stable as it did at 70, rock solid and really well planted.
Yeah, get a _good_ detector, the penalties for that kind of speed are pretty severe, usually they put you under the jail and drop crumbs through the floorboards.
Washington Auto Press Honors Ford Dean of Driving Dynamics
WASHINGTON, Jan. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- Ford Motor Company's (NYSE: F) top product engineering executive was honored last night by the Washington Automotive Press Association (WAPA) for his advocacy of driving dynamics.
Richard Parry-Jones, group vice president, Global Product Development and Quality, was cited for his leadership and lofty standards in the development of such recent successes as the Ford Focus, the Jaguar S-Type and the Lincoln LS.
WAPA president Mitch McCullough said Parry-Jones "believes every Ford car should be fun to drive -- a stance that's not always easy for a major auto maker."
Noting Parry-Jones' decision to delay the LS launch until its steering response was exactly right, McCullough said, "Clearly, this guy has guts and clearly he has a passion for cars."
McCullough presented Parry-Jones with WAPA's Golden Gear Award, given annually in recognition of outstanding automotive achievement. Prior winners include Soichiro Honda, Carroll Shelby and quality guru W. Edwards Deming.
Parry-Jones said cars with good vehicle dynamics are like high-end stereos. "You want to hear the music, but not the background noise. I feel ride, steering, braking, handling, acceleration are the same. And a car should have character. It should speak to you.
"Our vehicles must pass the 50-meter test. I tell our engineers that if the customers drive it over 50 meters and don't know what brand it is -- if they can't tell if it's a Volvo, a Jaguar, a Ford -- we've failed."
Vehicle dynamics, he added, "is a bit like creating a harmony. Everything has to be holistic. It's no good having impressive brakes if the throttle response is sluggish. It's no good having a fast-ranging gear shift if the steering is a little thin. The total control system, the interaction of the vehicle has to be speaking with one voice."
Ford's final voice on vehicle sign-offs belongs to Parry-Jones. The globetrotting, Welsh-born, former rally driver and motorcycle racer logs up to 30,000 miles a year evaluating Ford and competitor products while directing some 31,000 engineers on Ford's global product engineering team. But, he admits, it's a labor of love.
"It's not just cars I love, but driving," he explained. "Cars, racing cars, motorcycles, off-road. If it has wheels and it moves, I love to drive it. I decided to design cars when I was 10, to work for Ford when I was 13 and actually started with Ford as a co-op student at 16.
"I've landed a dream job, a job that I love. The only higher honor or reward is the privilege to lead the truly talented team of engineers and scientists at Ford."
swauger - Thanks for the info. I'm not sure how I got away going 100+ back in 85. Chances are I wont be as luck this time around. Maybe I should move to Montana. I hear there is not speed limit there at night! It must be impossible keeping a car like this going near the speed limit on those long straight roads in Florida.
My Dealer (McGowen Licoln in West Chester, PA) failed to convice other dealers to send them my car. My choice is to keep looking or just order one built to my specs. Any words of wisdom? I have never order one before. They told me that it would take 6 to 8 weeks. My first reaction is to get my deposit back and order one from a dealer closer to my house.
If a dealer is closer to your house and appears to be a reputable one with good service then I would order from them. I ordered my LS because there was none on the lot that I wanted. If I am going to spend >$30K then I want what I want and not what the dealer wants to push. I had to go to 3 dealers before one was interested in ordering as the others just wanted to sell what they had on the lot or possibly get from another dealer in and exchange.
...but I would like to invite you to the new Lincoln LS Owners club, which is on the Owner's Clubs Board. When you have an opportunity, stop by, introduce yourself, and let me know what discussions you would like to see in your Club's folder.
For your convenience, this discussion will also reside in the Club folder.
Nobody wants to let those LS cash cows off their lots, eh?
Here's one possibility, go thru an internet buying service like autobytel or one of many others. I haven't used one, but have heard good stories. Basically, you fill in a form stating what car you want, right down to the color and options I think. Then you'll get a call from one or more dealers wanting your business. If McGowen is the autobytel dealer, try another service. Might be worth a shot.
Also, these other dealers McGowen failed to convince - are they anywhere near you? Could still work something out directly.
Finally - ordering. I was in a similar situation and I ended up ordering. There was nothing in the pipe that I wanted. Mainly cause I wanted a red 5speed. So I ordered the car exactly how I wanted it. I think I placed the order 2 weeks before XMAS. I got the VIN # yestrday. The car is supposed to be built this coming Monday and I'll get it about 2 weeks later. So my wait was a bit more than 8 weeks, but Ford had a 3 week holiday at XMAS, so that explains that.
Gotta admit, I'm real anxious for the car, but when it gets here, it'll be what I wanted. In fact, I was even able to add AdvanceTrac to the order 2 weeks ago after I got back from LS Mania and my wife and I decided it was worth it. I tried to also add the heated seats ast week after I saw Dick Cupka's message about them being OK now. But dealer said it was too late. If I added, it would delay build date, so I didn't. Hey, if I really want em, I guess the dealer can do it :>)
There is a dealer that visits this board and he was at LS Mania. I can't say who he is since I don't know if he wants it known and I respect his right to keep that private. If that changes I'll let you all know.
After visiting some of the forums where car salespeople reside, i.e. "inconsiderate buyers" & "Confessions of a car salesman", I'm not so sure that I would want those peoples comments on this forum. They seem to have a very negative view of any buyer who tries to get a decent deal on an automobile, e.g. calling customers "grinders", "moochers", etc. Their main interest seems to be in tactics useful in manipulation of the customer, and maximization of their commission. Actual interest in the car itself is limited to sales/commission potential and almost nothing else. They are NOT car enthusiasts.
Comments
I bet there's someone on this forum that can give you good advice on how to find 'your' car.
I've mentioned the forum to my salesman, who is on the internet, and he nods politely but shows no evidence of visiting here. Darrin, if I'm wrong, let me know.
I'm convinced that a dealer salesperson who visits here regularly will sell more LS'.
A question is: Do we want them here?
Will look great on a hat. My neighbor just bought a 20K embroiding machine. Brian, can you send it to me as a file and I can see what it would take to get a cap/polo shirt done.
jdonnee: thanks and I'll send you both images as soon as she sends me the new one!
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions, criticism(which you've all kept nice!), error checking and for making it a success. Much bigger and better things are in store for the site. Within the next two years the site will have a content level that other car clubs will drool over.
Brian (your grateful and happy chief cook and bottlewasher)
Hector
I don't see a whole lot wrong with the dealer installing the heated seats. After all, they regularly have been replacing them, eh? Only additional thing for them to do is install the switches. I'm sure all the connectors are right where they should be in the wiring harnesses. If they screw up, then they will fix it for you. Make sure they know that.
** A combination keypad entry system for the driver's door. **
Seems it can be attached to the B-pillar and hooked into the electronics and voila! No more worries about auto-lock accidentally locking me out.
I don't know the availability of this item, or even if it's on the market yet. Perhaps someone from Lincoln can confirm/deny this rumor?
A good salesman would have sent you to the other dealers if he couldn't get them to deal. I can't believe a dealer wouldn't trade a LS for a Navigator or another LS. Go to another dealer and let them do the search if they don't have one in stock. This dealer may have a bad rep for swaps. If there are 5 cars out there I guarantee you can get one on your terms (or very close) without compromising. No need to even visit the dealers - just go down the yellow pages. Ask for the sales mgr, though, not a sales person. Worst case - just sit tight and wait. It's painful but you'll be happier in the end.
Allen (waited 3 months)
As they say, nothing worthwhile is easily obtained.
Scott
It's not an option I need with the key-fob door opener, but like a built-in compass, some owners are very passionate about this acccessory.
About a year ago, several LS owners posted a dusty, dry surface on their dash. A lincoln exec (dcupka perhaps) posted the TSB cure involving Black Magic Protectorant and Napa 3-M white applicator pads. My LS was affected, I followed the TSB cure, and the dustiness has not returned in the following year. Maybe it was a final treatment omitted by the dealers in final prep, and now required, maybe LM changed its manufacturing specs. In any event, we haven't seen posts about this problem since - but I can't help thinking there are a lot of 2000 LS's out there with dusty, dry dash's that did not get the message.
Re #294- I rec'd email reply today. They asked for my daytime # so that "we could discusss the matter further." More to follow
Remove the ashtray. Pull the fascia around the ashtray forward gently with fingers - it snaps out. Starting at the fron of the console top, lift it up. It is secured with about 7 fasteners along its length. As you pull up the front, pivot it up as if on a hinge on the back, passenger compartment edge. When all the fasteners are free, carefully pivot lift it off. The advance trak control switch is wired with enough play that you can flip the top onto the driver's seat, or simply unclip the connector and you can remove the top from the car.
That's all there is to it - no tools necessary.
Thanks, Artie.
I don't recall the specifics, but you just squirt the protectorant onto the pad, and rub the plastic until it penetrates. It doesn't take much. There is no residue left on the pads - you are not scratching the surface. The protectorant seems to alter the structure of the plastic molecules. There has been no evaporative vapor left on the windows, and I have never had to treat the dash again. It is now semi-glossy rather than dusty, flat gray.
That's it.
Another problem area is the driver side rear door. The channel that seperates the two pieces of glass in that door, has started to rust. It's a small amount of rust, but it's there none the less.
One final problem involves staining of the paint just below the leading edge of the rear door on the driver side. Seems that whatever adhesive Lincoln is using to afix the chrome trim around the windows, is starting to seep out and then stain the paint. My car is black, so it is quite obvious. A co-worker of mine had the same thing happen to his 2 door Explorer Sport. Caused a huge stain and was a bear to compound out. I'm not positive that he got it back to original. My car has been clayed/waxed 3 times in the last 11 months and gets regular hand washes, so I've done more than I think is expected to keep a car clean.
I am going to try to get the digital camera from one of our sales people so I can take some shots and post to the web. I'll let the list know when I have them. All items will be dealt with under warranty, but I think this is entirely unacceptable for a car of this class/price/age.
Albert
The procedure listed below is copied from OASIS Special Service Message #12970 from Ford Customer Service. The material and application pad were selected to perform the cleaning without causing any damage to the dash surface. This is important because some cleaners and solvents can actually cause drying and damage.
__________________________________________________
SSM #12970
SOME DASH TOPS MAY EXHIBIT A MOTTLED, BLOTCHY, DUSTY OR INCONSISTENT APPEARANCE. IF SO, PERFORM THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURE:
1. SPRAY 'BLACK MAGIC PROFESSIONAL PROTECTANT' (STOCK #31000BP) ON A FINE WHITE 3M SCOTCHBRITE PAD (STOCK #07445).
2. APPLY TO THE TOP OF THE DASH USING A CIRCULAR MOTION.
3. REMOVE ALL EXCESS 'BLACK MAGIC' WITH A CLEAN SOFT CLOTH.
4. REPEAT APPLICATION AS REQUIRED.
THIS PROCEDURE CLEANS AND PRODUCES A MORE UNIFORM APPEARANCE WITHOUT SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECTING THE GLOSS LEVEL. 'BLACK MAGIC PROFESSIONAL PROTECTANT' CAN BE PURCHASED LOCALLY FROM K-MART, WAL-MART, WESTERN AUTO, TRAC AUTO, GRAND AUTO, KRAGEN, AND CHECKERS. THE 3M SCOTCH BRIGHT PAD, WHITE IN COLOR, CAN BE PURCHASED LOCALLY AT NAPA AUTO PARTS AND
OTHER 3M DISTRIBUTORS. (IMPORTANT) 3M PAD WONT SCUFF THE SURFACE OF THE DASH.
Any comments or other suggestions.
In both cases, there was no passion about the car-it was just another Lincoln. What separates us here is that we all have passion about the LS including our friends at Lincoln like Mark and JR.
I believe that part of our frustration relative to the perceived slowness of Ford to clean up the dealer channel is the lack of passion in the Ford sales ranks as you go down the food chain to the Ford sales and service reps calling on the dealers. I never felt that they saw the vision that they had a BMW killer in their sales bag. It blows my mind when I can still walk the local dealers lot and see 20 new LS's and no manuals.
LINCOLN LS REAR LICENSE FRAME REMOVAL, PAINTING, AND REINSTALLATION
1. Remove the license plate.
2. Remove the manual trunk release handle from the cable.
3. Remove the trunk lid liner by pulling out the sixteen plastic retaining plugs. I'm not sure if there's a neat way to do this. I ended up getting them started with some sort of an opposed edge wire-cutting tool I happened to have around, then used a pair of small wire cutters to bend up an edge of the head, and finally grabbed the turned-up edge with vice grips and wiggled until the plug came out. Unfortunately they're not good for much afterwards. This is not an elegant solution but it does get the retainers out. If your patience is limited I suppose you could cut the heads off but that would leave little pieces inside the trunk lid. 12 of the 16 retainers are a standard Ford item and can be easily purchased from a dealer or a parts store. The other four may not be so easy to replace so a little extra care in extracting them might be a good idea. Two go in the extreme lower corners of the liner and have the same size head but a longer shaft. The other two, which hold the liner to the lid supports, have a larger head and also a thicker shaft.
4. Remove each license plate light bulb/socket unit by twisting to the left 1/4 turn and pulling out.
5. Remove the electrical feed to the backup lights by separating at the plug connection.
6. Remove the six or seven (can't remember which but they're obvious) 7/16" combination nut/washers holding the frame assembly to the trunk lid using a 1/4" drive deep socket. Make sure you keep all the black sticky sealant attached to the washer and the lid. You'll need it again later. NOTE: Do not try to remove the frame yet or you will damage it.
7. There are two smallish elongated slots on the inside of the lid near the top of the frame on each side. If you look inside with a flashlight you'll see a plastic retaining clip which is actually part of the backup light assembly. Release these clips with light pressure and you can remove the backup light assemblies and the license frame. The deck lid is now much lighter than it was so it will fly up if you don't restrain it. Don't use the remote to open the trunk unless you're standing there with one hand on the lid!
8. Remove the license plate lights from the frame by pressing in the clips.
9. Leave all the weather-stripping attached to the frame. This, along with the black background for the license plate, should be masked before painting.
10. The Lincoln emblem is held on to the frame with double stick tape. The safest way to get it off in one piece is to use a hair dryer to heat things up and gently pry it off with something thin and flat like a knife. If you're lucky most of the tape will be intact. If not, get some from your body/paint shop.
11. With the color code for your car in hand, have the frame painted by somebody who knows how to paint chrome plated plastic. If they screw it up it will cost at least $125 for a new frame/light assembly!
12. Before reinstalling, it's a good idea to clean and wax the area under and around the frame.
13. Put the license plate lights back in the frame.
14. Put the backup light assemblies back in the frame and gently press the retaining clips on the back into the slots in the deck lid.
15. Roll the black sticky sealant you saved between your fingers until it's about the thickness of household string. Put enough on each washer to form a complete circle.
16. Reattach the nut/washers to the threaded studs and tighten firmly enough to squish the sealant. Be careful not to over tighten since the studs are attached to plastic. The stud on the back of the emblem location is particularly sensitive.
17. Reconnect the lights.
18. Feed the trunk release cable through the slot in the liner and reattach the handle.
19. Reinstall the liner with the appropriate push-in retaining plugs.
20. Reinstall the Lincoln emblem, insuring that it is well adhered to the frame.
21. Reinstall the license plate.
22. Enjoy your LS's new look!
Looks like posts 329 and 332 should be added to the LLSOC "how-to".
Having some dealer input on this board might be a good thing. It would be nice to hear from a dealer who is actually interested enough in his products to participate here.
Joe
Pursuit of mutual understanding among LM, Dealers, and us owners will benefit us all. And, maybe create a model that will be the envy of other manufacturers, and owners of other manufacturer's vehicles.
We probably should be careful in our assumptions about how typical of the average owner we are. As time passes, though, I believe that participants in forums like this will become more and more typical, particularly for a car with the character of the LS.
Just to add my $.02 worth of advice... If you were to lightly glass bead the frame, you would have a surface that was condusive to painting, and then you could do the painting from a touch up spray-pak. You could then avoid the expense of going to the body shop.
The three posts have been added to the FAQs.
Brian
cwesley: I'm getting bounce-back message saying that your mailbox is full.
Which would explain why I'm posting it here instead of emailing you!
Thought you would like to know
Brian
What took you so long ???
We've all complained about the problems that LM is having with their dealer network. I have on several occasions noted that LM's biggest problem is their dealer network. But I'm sure that there are two sides to this issue. The dealers probably have some valid complaints about LM management.
So why not allow them to express some of these concerns here and, hopefully, this board can become a vehicle to promote communication between the dealers and LM. Perhaps "we" can help to really solve some of the problems.
Joe
2) Who has any evidence that a dealer has visited?
After treatment, the dash is semi-gloss. In certain lighting conditions (sun high overhead in front of car) there is some reflection, but never so much to really make a difference, but on the whole, there is not a substantive change.
Of course, throw a white parking reciept on top of the dash and you can read the letters in reverse, kinda "heads-up" display :-)
I did it on Interstate 4 between Orlando and Daytona. I pulled out to get around a group of cars running about 80 or so to get to clean road ahead, and some guy in a mid-70's Vette pulled out behind me so I just floored it. He looked quite depressed that I turned a 3 car lead to a 5+ car lead on him with a sedan. It was quite amazing how quickly it went from 80 to 130, and how smoothly. I had an 85 V8 Capri and an 88 Stang, 5.0, and it took far longer to get to 130, died at 130 (brick wall aerodynamics), and was really twitchy and nervous at that speed. The LS felt as stable as it did at 70, rock solid and really well planted.
Yeah, get a _good_ detector, the penalties for that kind of speed are pretty severe, usually they put you under the jail and drop crumbs through the floorboards.
Washington Auto Press Honors Ford Dean of Driving Dynamics
WASHINGTON, Jan. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- Ford Motor Company's (NYSE: F) top product engineering executive was honored last night by the Washington Automotive Press Association (WAPA) for his advocacy of driving dynamics.
Richard Parry-Jones, group vice president, Global Product Development and Quality, was cited for his leadership and lofty standards in the development of such recent successes as the Ford Focus, the Jaguar S-Type and the Lincoln LS.
WAPA president Mitch McCullough said Parry-Jones "believes every Ford car should be fun to drive -- a stance that's not always easy for a major auto maker."
Noting Parry-Jones' decision to delay the LS launch until its steering response was exactly right, McCullough said, "Clearly, this guy has guts and clearly he has a passion for cars."
McCullough presented Parry-Jones with WAPA's Golden Gear Award, given annually in recognition of outstanding automotive achievement. Prior winners include Soichiro Honda, Carroll Shelby and quality guru W. Edwards Deming.
Parry-Jones said cars with good vehicle dynamics are like high-end stereos. "You want to hear the music, but not the background noise. I feel ride, steering, braking, handling, acceleration are the same. And a car should have character. It should speak to you.
"Our vehicles must pass the 50-meter test. I tell our engineers that if the customers drive it over 50 meters and don't know what brand it is -- if they can't tell if it's a Volvo, a Jaguar, a Ford -- we've failed."
Vehicle dynamics, he added, "is a bit like creating a harmony. Everything has to be holistic. It's no good having impressive brakes if the throttle response is sluggish. It's no good having a fast-ranging gear shift if the steering is a little thin. The total control system, the interaction of the vehicle has to be speaking with one voice."
Ford's final voice on vehicle sign-offs belongs to Parry-Jones. The globetrotting, Welsh-born, former rally driver and motorcycle racer logs up to 30,000 miles a year evaluating Ford and competitor products while directing some 31,000 engineers on Ford's global product engineering team. But, he admits, it's a labor of love.
"It's not just cars I love, but driving," he explained. "Cars, racing cars, motorcycles, off-road. If it has wheels and it moves, I love to drive it. I decided to design cars when I was 10, to work for Ford when I was 13 and actually started with Ford as a co-op student at 16.
"I've landed a dream job, a job that I love. The only higher honor or reward is the privilege to lead the truly talented team of engineers and scientists at Ford."
For your convenience, this discussion will also reside in the Club folder.
Hope to see you there soon!
KarenS
Owner's Club Host
Here's one possibility, go thru an internet buying service like autobytel or one of many others. I haven't used one, but have heard good stories. Basically, you fill in a form stating what car you want, right down to the color and options I think. Then you'll get a call from one or more dealers wanting your business. If McGowen is the autobytel dealer, try another service. Might be worth a shot.
Also, these other dealers McGowen failed to convince - are they anywhere near you? Could still work something out directly.
Finally - ordering. I was in a similar situation and I ended up ordering. There was nothing in the pipe that I wanted. Mainly cause I wanted a red 5speed. So I ordered the car exactly how I wanted it. I think I placed the order 2 weeks before XMAS. I got the VIN # yestrday. The car is supposed to be built this coming Monday and I'll get it about 2 weeks later. So my wait was a bit more than 8 weeks, but Ford had a 3 week holiday at XMAS, so that explains that.
Gotta admit, I'm real anxious for the car, but when it gets here, it'll be what I wanted. In fact, I was even able to add AdvanceTrac to the order 2 weeks ago after I got back from LS Mania and my wife and I decided it was worth it. I tried to also add the heated seats ast week after I saw Dick Cupka's message about them being OK now. But dealer said it was too late. If I added, it would delay build date, so I didn't. Hey, if I really want em, I guess the dealer can do it :>)
George