The fact that I smoked that 2001 Maxima on the Baker Grade to Las Vegas in 112 degree heat. Okay, so I had a 2 cylinder advantage. But it sure was pleasent hitting 120 on the grade in D4 and watching that Maxima fall behind. All with the A/C on and watching the temp gage rise to half-way between the 1/2 and 3/4 mark, but stopping there. Those are the moments when you say, ah, I love my ride.
And, after coming back from a vacation where I was stuck in a Buick LaSabre for a week, I really enjoy getting out of that boat and into my luxury ride. The seats just made all the difference in the world.
Oh, and I finally did it, hit 142mph for a brief moment and didn't hit a wall at a limiter, had to back off due to road conditions though.
Just minutes after putting on the Borla and admiring my now visible tips, I bring up your link on the Civic and have feelings of inferiority again. And to think this guy probably paid zilch for his system and has so little back pressure to boot! There is just no end to this exhaust game. Maybe Magnaflow will copy this design for us. Stanny1, back to taking his testosterone supplements!
I'll repeat that I haven't yet had the window problem, but I'll also add that I don't run them up and down very often. Part of the reason I don't is because I'm very concerned about the "crash". I'll also repeat that going back to the dealer to get things fixed isn't all that convenient, however the "security" aspect of malfunctioning windows is really the prime issue to me. How can you protect yourself and/or your possessions if the windows won't stay up. I sincerely feel that this is a case for a recall. Are the L-M folks listening ?? Or, does someone have to be carjacked before anything will be done on a widespread basis ?? By the way, has anyone heard if this is also a problem on the Jag S-Type ?
IIRC, Dick Cupka touched on the window problem during happy hour at LS Mania 1. At this point, my post-age 50 brain cannot recall what was said, but I think it had something to do with under-design.
Brian, I'm sure that we could get an update if we emailed him. When he signed off here, he made it clear that the LS will always hold a special place in his heart. I'll volunteer if you don't care to.
what would you buy? (Thought I would change the recent topics by trying this one).
I usually browse the Sunday paper used car section, just because. I sometimes think if my LS was totalled (hopefully it never will), what would I buy right now? Personally, I would probably have to lean towards a used BMW 330i, depending on the price. But, I might be able to get another LS for a great deal on the used car market since the resales for LS is pretty bad. Would never consider a FWD car, so that rules quite a few pretenders. Gotta be RWD, and gotta be in the 20k to 30k price range.
Man I am bummed out by the Borla exhaust results. I don't think I would buy a system unless it improved results. Like someone said, the Engineers at ford probably know what they are doing, (O.K. maybe not the Window Regulator guy) but in any case I find I do not have the capital, or time to test all of the possibilities to find out the optimal combination. Also I believe the Law of diminishing returns has a play in any performance results. I remember when JR made changes to his LS and Jonathan said something like "What have you done to my car!" The characteristics/dynamics were off. I have to admit Jonathan and the vehicle dynamics people know what they are doing. The LS is a testament to that. The LS is a system and changing one or two parts could negatively or positively impact the whole system. I think thorough knowledge of the LS dynamics is necessary in order to assess how any changes can positively affects the LS. Brian do you talk much to Jonathan?
Thank you Brian for the project car, and trying to optimize it. Maybe your feedback to Borla might help them make a better system. Like you said though isolate the HP Increase, take out the MAF.
Now at 10-12 HP for $683 dollars would not be a bad deal. Till then I will save my $683 for that M5 unless Lincoln would come up with a competitor. Brings up another question. Man this is somewhat of a Think/ Mod Testing Tank isn't it? Here it goes. I am sure Lincoln is not there yet but I will proposition it. What would we call the LINCOLN Performance equivalent of AMG and M?
I believe that for the 2002 MY, Lincoln has chosen the label for a "new" performance model called the LS Sport. I don't think it will be the equivalent of AMG or M, but it is now a model rather than a single option.
The tests that Brian and Stanny1 are doing on an isolated Borla system should prove interesting. I suspect the exhaust system is where the 02 MY LS V6 is getting its' extra punch.
Is just a sport package equipped LS. It's not even an upgrade. Just different packaging. It allows Lincoln to package other things as standard on the Sport model instead of doing it option by option. It also advertises the fact that a Sport model is available, something that doesn't happen today. A true AMG type upgrade would be similar to a SVT model as Thomas suggested. We once heard SVT was testing a supercharged version of the V8 but nothing since. If you think about how easy it should be to supercharge the AJ-derived V8 (Jag already does it on their other models and the S-type and X-type are on the way) or better yet swap in the S-type 4.3L supercharged engine when it arrives it should be a no-brainer! Upgrade the tires/wheels, maybe the shocks, throw in a Recaro seat and some interior upgrades and you should have a M5 for $20K less.
I would consider the following (in order of preference):
V8 Sport LS - I still love it.
Acura 3.2TL Type S Probably the best of the FWD sports sedans right now. My only issue (other than FWD) is that the front end looks like an Accord. The other day I saw two cars coming out of a side street, one behind the other, and I couldn't tell the difference until I saw them from the rear. One was an Accord and one was a TL. Other than that I like it.
Audi A6 2.7T Gorgeous interior. But I'm not crazy about the rounded corners on the body. Gorgeous interior. And big bucks to get the 4.2 V8. Did I mention the gorgeious interior? Lincoln should let their interior designers drive an Audi for a few months.
BMW 5-series 3-series is too small. I'm not crazy about the interior, either, but I like the exterior and the performance. But not the price.
I don't personally care for the Maxima, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes or any GM product styling. Nothing specific, just not crazy about the overall package.
Now if the kids were grown it would be an easy choice: used Porsche 911 or Boxster S. And by the time I can get one a 2001 model should be really cheap. But in the meantime I'll take another LS in Silver/Charcoal.
Can't necessarily jump completely to the conclusion that the Borla doesn't provide an increase in performance. While I can't quite get into the details on a public forum, there is reason to suspect the sensor hampering performance gains. Could be a calibration problem since the project car got one of the first sensors before GMS got serious about them.
There might be some other factors on the dyno run that may have contributed to the small difference. I'll know better if I can schedule some more dyno time tomorrow with the stock sensor and same tank of gas. It seems that out here in SoCal the premium octane rating has mysteriously dropped from 92 to 91 in a lot of places. If the dyno run shows a drop from stock pipes then there is something else wrong with the car and I may have to wait and put the stock pipes back on and redo the dyno runs, one after the other. All I gotta do is call in sick for a day and hope the boss doesn't call
I do have to tell you guys that watching your car be put on a dyno is a little heart-wrenching. The basic process is that the car gets strapped down on the roller, they start the car, put it in gear, and floor it until either the car hits redline or it runs out of power. Take it from me the sound coming out of the Borlas at complete full throttle at 140mph is rather terrifying being about two feet from the back. Not to mention that the dyno rollers are screaming. Not for the faint-of-heart. Hopefully it isn't shortening the life of the car too much.
I would go with the Audi A4 2.8 Quattro if you will accept an AWD in lieu of rwd only. An alternate would be the VW Passat 2.8 4motion. As opposed to akirby, I love the rounded lines of the exterior. I would really like the Avant but it's more $$.
I think I would have to renege on my promise to myself to never buy another foreign car and go for the new Lexus SC430. I like gadgets and I love that gimmicky top. I saw the interior and I really think it looks great. When I throw in the superior service and much classier "loaner" car situation, I would have to go with them. As my LS ages, it is still awfully nice, but my wifes Lexus is aging far more gracefully. If I felt particularly racy I might go with an Audi TT roadster. If I felt more conservative I might go with the Mercedes 320 convertible. Looks beautiful. Probably the Lexus.
I somehow contracted a P/S leak. After me driving it for I don't know how many weeks losing a few drops a day, my dealer tells me I can't drive it. I "get" to drive a base Intrepid. YUK!!! I want my LS!! Stanny1, alphanstein, LS1bmw0, any of you guys want to loan me yours?
Hmmm trading an Intrepid for my car? Wait, lemme think on that one... No. Though I feel your pain. Could be worse, you could be driving that car fashion statement that hatboy on the 300m board has
If (heaven forbid) my LS went to the Big Recycling Center In The Sky, I'd probably go right back to my dealer and order an '02 LS with the same equipment and colors I currently have (V8 Sport, AdvanceTrac, moonroof, ivory/parchment), except that I'd probably add the new phone system (especially if it's still "free".) For only $90 more than the list price of a late-year '01, the Audiophile stereo and the heated seats are included, and that's hard to beat.
Like ronniepooh, front-drive is not an option for me. I'd probably have to give an S4 Avant a look, but I'd still probably wind up with another LS. After 13k miles, I've had excellent dealer support & service and absolutely no problems, and I still get compliments on a regular basis. At the gas station a couple days ago, a guy was staring at my car and said, "That's a beautiful color--what's it called?"
Those of you who have been here awhile may remember that I originally wanted an M5, but then the MASTER stepped in and demanded she get her own Lexus as well. Not being able to afford both, the result is that I now have an '01 V6M LS and she has an I30 (liked the green color better than the GS300, women!). My next car will either be the '05 redesigned Jag XJ if I stay with a sedan, which rumor has it will be much larger and a real screamer, or the XKR. The Jags are just plain drop dead georgious (IMHO) and the interiors are outstanding. Yes, I know these are not true competition for the LS but hey, why not go for it?
BTW, my brother purchased a Boxter S 3 weeks ago (the SOB paid cash!) It is VERY nice, outstanding acceleration and handling, but the seats are not as comfortable as the LS for extended trips; and I can have almost as much fun in a Miata and save $40K. Who wouldn't rather have the Boxter than the Miata though, and it is his money.
If you are looking for more tone, then go ahead and buy it. If you were expecting a big increase in power, which you shouldn't have since even if you believed the Borla advertisments, they only talk about 10 hp, don't. We will probably see an increase of 5 hp tomorrow when we re-dyno the car. If we do that's in line with what the club has been saying you can expect with the Borla. I do know that on my car I am seeing about .5-1 mpg (24.5-25mpg on my combined daily drive as opposed to 22-23.5mpg before) better with the system on than before.
I will reiterate that the mass air flow sensor may be the power robber in this particular setup. Definite answer will be the results after we do the next dyno using the stock sensor.
I know that jnowski, stanny1, ezaircon, and several others have had the Borlas on their cars for a while now. What are their thoughts regarding performance, gas mileage, etc.?
Even though the club sells the Borla I wouldn't sell them under false pretenses so we will truthfully report on the performance gains or lack of. Our first priority is the members of the club not the vendors. If all you get from the Borla is sound we'll let you know.
I bought my Borlas because the stock V-8 Sport was way too quiet! Passing on a two lane (60-80 mph.) was way too quiet. I'll admit that I miss the old four barrel kicking in, now there was a nice sound affect.
After having my Borla for a month, I am very pleased with the sound. Unobtrusive while cruising, but they speak-up when they are called for! It's a great compromise.
If my car got totaled, I guess that it would be another LS or a new T-bird. I'm really sold on this DEW platform!
I've gotten a definite 1-1.5 MPG increase, and I swear that the low end TQ (below 3K RPM) is a little better. The engine also seems to rev freer in the upper R's. My reasoning for the low R improvement is that, before, I would get a slight "bog" if the R's were just a little too low when starting off in first. Now, I no longer get that "bog", it just takes off smoothly right from just above idle.
Brian, I think that you are on the right track with the Dyno testing. When looking for improvements that are in the 5% and under range, you pretty well need to do the testing back to back with the same tank of gas, temp, humidity, etc. You may even have to factor in what the engine management system is doing. Just a difference in the trans fluid temps from test to test can affect HP a couple of percentage points. The other thing is that maybe you won't see a big increase in peak power, but the lower part of the torque curve will "fatten up" some.
I dropped off my car this morning to have the LR window fixed. I picked it up this afternoon and all seems well. Before I left the dealer this time I tried all 4 windows. With dark clouds looming over Central Texas I really didn't want to play with them too much. I guess my confidence level is not what it should be. Even though I was out $6 Tuesday and today to cover the cost of my "free" rental (both LS's) I am glad that I have the problem fixed. I also hope the new level regulators hold up much longer than the older ones.
I agree with Joe. The car seems to rev "freeer" and that "bog" off the line seems to be less. I have only Borla-ed for one day so my experience is limited. It has a definite resonance peak at about 37-3800 rpm and I like to keep in third to enjoy that. I don't think I'll get better gas mileage until I get tired of blipping the throttle both at intersections and in the middle of a shift just to hear the "rasp". We Manual owners have a little more flexibility and control over our noises. At idle, the car sounds like it has a "cam". Sort of an authoritative purr. I think Borla spent some time tuning the system for sound. I think the V-6 could show more increase on the Dyno than the V-8 because the stock V-6 pipes are smaller to begin with. Now onto the air box problem this weekend! By the way, the car guys on the radio have been talking about the change to 91 from 92. You lucky guys outside Calif have 93+. And what gas we have is pretty pathetic. Besides lower octane, it yields reduced mileage. So the BTU content must be lower as well. Then we have these smog laws. I'm surprised they run at all here in Calif.
It's always amusing to hear proud owners proclaim their car's performance. I've seen Proteges beating Porsches etc etc. I think you look at road test statistics and not someone's road experience. How do u know whether the other driver is even trying. Anyway, I looked up the Edmunds review for the LS V8/Nissan Maxima Maxima does 0-60 in 7.8 quarter mile in 15.9 (89 mph) The LS is 7.2 , 15.5 and 90.9 respectively. If you look at it in $/performance or Horsepower/speed I don't think that says a lot about the LS's ability to smoke everyone. But again that's perhaps not what all buyers look at.
Hey Stan, you've just come up with one more positive reason for owning a manual - noise control. Or, if you like, a foot modulated music synthesizer (it's music to my ears anyway).
Proud owner. I think that says it all. It all ends ups being a matter of perspective. LS owners can't see spending more money on a BMW but wouldn't think saving money and getting a Maxima would be a worthwhile deal. Conversely, 300M owners think we spent too much money on our LSes. To each their own.
And thankfully there are a ton of different cars for car nuts to choose from!
Another LS8 Sport, in a heartbeat. I nitpick sometimes, wring my hands over the future LS, especially regarding styling, but I haven't had a moment's regret in the ten months/24k miles I've owned it.
OK, I'd make one change. The new one would be white. Dark satin green looks terrific when it's clean, but only stays clean for about 10 minutes out of the garage. In fact, I'm convinced that my AC filter stays clean longer than average because dust and dirt are attracted to the paint.:)
An elderly gentleman stopped me at the Mall and asked about the tires on my LS (2001) Seems he bought a 2000 model a few weeks ago and not happy with the tires on the car. He said the ride is harsh and has a good bit of road noise. It is the standard edition and not sport. Dealer said everything is factory except the tires and he would have to change them to get a better ride with less noise. He looked at mine and wanted to know if there was any tires I could recommend that would soften the ride and get rid of the noise. He didn't want to get the Touring Lincoln models as he felt they were too big a car. Any other suggestions on tires that may even be softer or quieter then original Continentals? I'm completely happy but not sure if what I have is only thing available.
Reminds me of a dyno test that C&D did on performance enhancement upgrade chips for BMW & Chevy 5.7L V8's. I don't think any of the performance chips met their prformance claims with some of them actually worse than the OEM calibrations especially at lower RPM. It's been quite a few years so my memory is a bit foggy but I think the only chip that delivered a substantial HP increase was one of the BMW ones that got the extra HP by raising the RPM limit.
When I get to the point that I start looking for tires that give a softer ride, any of you have my permission to shoot me.
Price is still an object for me & at this price point, there's no question in my mind. I'd choose another LS, warts and all!
Our friends got a new TL Type-S last week. Got a short ride as a passenger. Nice car, but my back hurt after 10 minutes in the front passenger's seat. I'll report back when I get to drive it.
Since they're not at all "car folks" I was curious as to why they got an S-type instead of the standard model. They really were clueless as to the differences. The chief reason: the wife wanted the white faced gauges! Now she's annoyed B/C they paid 2G's extra & the gauges flip colors at night!
Go to tirerack.com and look for tires under the "grand touring" and "standard touring" categories. tirerack.com also has some good info. explaining the differences between the different tire categories. Also be aware the all season tires are usually make more noise than summer tires which have a tighter tread. However, a lot of the harshness he is feeling is probably due to the taut LS suspension. If he is used to soft american luxo bardges he may have bought the wrong car.
As much as I snivel on this board, the LS ain't bad . . . for the price.
If mine were totalled, and the insurance company didn't have to be taken to court to pay a decent settlement, there are only two choices as to companies and three as to models.
I've been enamored of late with Audi, but the more I read their archived messages, the less I want to deal with a company with almost no dealers and some significant problems. If I were a leasing kind of guy, I'd go with the A6 2.7T or the S4.
Other choice has to be the 530. If I had more money than (I do), the 540 is an interesting option. . .but in my case, it doesn't make sense.
I have a DEFINITE HP/torque gain. I can feel it every time I climb the uphill ramp to the freeway. I would also advise removing the neg battery cable for a while to allow the computer to adjust to the greater airflow. I did, finally, and noticied better throttle response. Before, when I lifted, the engine would rev a couple hundred higher, then settle down. Now it settles down right away. If you have the 6, I think you would be pleased with your new found power! BTW, I also opened up the airbox. From what I hear, it is similar to what Lincoln did for the '02's.
I am TRULY disappointed that none of you offered up the use of your LS while mine slumbered at the dealer! What kind of fellow LSers are you?! Not to worry. As I got my car back after work, I won't need to come get any of your "loaner" LSes or therapy. Turned out when they fixed the cooling fan hose, they forgot to tighten a plug in the pump!
It's things like that that make you feel Ford is servicing your car and not Lincoln! I expect a certain level of service that Lincoln/Mercury can't or won't provide (BTW, I had to call about the status of my car after they had it for 24 hours, it was already done!). If Lincoln wants to truly compete with BMW/Acura/Lexus heck, even Cadillac, then they better start thinking like Lincoln and not Ford. I bought an LS, NOT a Sable! I don't want to be treated like I'm a charter member of AARP (no offence intended), I want to be treated just like the other marques treat their customers. As an example: co-worker has 95 540i. BMW screwed up a recall head replacement (they forgot to torque a head nut and it disintegrated in the head). It took them 3 weeks to diagnose the problem, find what was left of the nut and get a new head. During that time they gave him a brand spanking new 330i to drive. That is service! He gets comperable car, I get an Intrepid. Hmmmm.....
Oh yea. It's a no-brainer for me. V6 manual. Or maybe the V8, but another LS for sure! I still want to be the first with 2 in the garage!
If my 2000 LS8 disappeared overnight I would not replace it with a new LS. I would try to find a LS lease return or re-po car at a bargain price. I'd use it to hold me over until the 2003 LS's are out and see if they're improved enough to try a new one again.
I agree with a couple of others that Lancia should have the credit for using a V6 in a production car first:
"Launched in 1950 at the Turin Motorshow, the all-new Aurelia was designed to replace the ageing Aprilia. It used an all new 60º V6 engine, actually the world's first production V6 engine in a car."
I'd be in another LS8 sport in a heartbeat. I've had nothing but a positive experience with this car. The balance and handling just can't be beat. To be sure, I'd test drive a few others, you know, just out of curiosity ;-)
How much does a Saleen or Rousch Mustang go for? I would NOT consider a FWD, not even a possibility. I'd drive another Audi A6 2.7T w/Quattro, as I did 2 years ago, but I keep coming back to the balance issue . . . not to mention that it is several thousand $ more than an LS and dealers are few and far between.
I hope I'm not jinxing myself here, I really don't want to replace my LS8 sport for a few more years yet, but if forced to, the MY03 would probably be worth waiting for.
Can anyone give me more information on transmission reflash of PCM? My car was built in July 2000. There is a delay when shifting from reverse to drive or neutral to drive, harsh manual upshifts and downshifts, and hesitation when getting on it sometimes... I have seen various discussions and listings of TSB#'s (01-01-05 and 01-14-05) My dealer's service manager thinks I'm nuts and says even the 2001's have a delay when shifting from reverse or neutral. Says these TSB#'s are invalid... Can someone give me more information so I can stuff it down the service managers throat... Thanks! 8<)
I had a chance to put some freeway miles on tonight. Usually cruise at 75mph which is about 3000 rpm in fifth. It seems like Borla intentionally made the system silent until 36-3800 rpm. Good for freeway fatigue factor. If you want noise, just drop into fourth and you sound like a Ferrari at LeMans (not quite as loud). As you pull up to the intersection, the "Burbles" begin. Great tuning. You Manual guys should get this system. As Joe says, you can play it like a fiddle. Anytime you pass a Civic/Integra/Eclipse, just push in the clutch and rev to 3800 for a second. Gotcha! All we have to add now is the blue headlight bulbs!
Your dealer is the one who's nuts. There is a slight delay between any shift. These are excessive delays. I hear (I didn't have this part of the problem) 3 seconds +. The text of the TSB's can be found at www.llsoc.com Look under recalls on the navigation bar. I had my 5/00 build V6 done and it made a big difference in the 2-3 shift.
Sorry to keep hashing at this, but this one mod. has bugged me ever since I took a look at it. The question I have and maybe jnowski or gschwartz can help answer is: I understand how a bigger diameter sensor will allow more air into the system, thereby allowing the vendor to calibrate the sensor with the corresponding increase in fuel flow, theoretically (I just love that word!) providing for a more efficient, and therefore producing more power. The oxymoron or quandry that I see is that if the front of the bigger sensor needs to fit into the stock air box opening and the back of the sensor needs to fit into the stock snorkel, how does more air flow through if you still have the same size parameters?
I could see it providing the increased efficiency if you also went to a different filter element, aka a round filter with a different nose to accomodate a bigger mouth(the sensor not mine. And also a bigger snorkel tube. But not the stock pieces. Are my assumptions off base? The sensor doesn't appear to have the shape of a venturi which would speed up the air flow through it either. This modification has always sounded a little like snake oil and on initial testing appears to validate my assumption.
Thoughts? Then I'll shut up about it.
P.S. While the Jag XKR is really nice, I'd probably buy 2 LSes for the same price, one manual and one V-8, just for variety!
I think that you have it right. The power increase comes from reducing the restrictions in the airflow, so in those cases where the MAF sensor is the biggest restriction you will get the best gain. However, if the bigger restriction lies elsewhere, like in the air plumbing or filter/airbox, then you need to open up those restrictions first before you can start to realize gains from the larger MAF. I would hazaed a guess that if LM was able to get additional power through airbox mods without changing the MAF itself, then the biggest restriction is probably the airbox/filter unit. Incidentally, I've seen bigger MAF kits which also included new and larger diameter intake air plumbing tubes.
Stan, your Borla reports are really raising my interest. Putting one on a V6 automatic wouldn't be sacrilegious, would it? BTW, the touch up paint tip you gave me really did the trick... THANKS!
If my LS bought the farm, I would wait for a MY 03 LS, hoping for a 250 HP V6 or a 300 HP V8.
Call me crazy, but my other car is a '99 2.5L 5 speed Porsche Boxter, and as an everyday commuter I like the LS just as much...when I can get it away from my wife. The LS Sport can hold its' own at 80 MPH on a 90 degree highway curve which is about as winding a road as I can find in South Florida.
Of course on a sunny weekend the Boxter, with the top down, and the B&B Tri-Flo exhaust purring, takes first prize. These two cars are quite a set of book ends and I am very fortunate to have them both.
Now, Artie, nobody's going to shoot you. If you start whining for a soft ride, we'll just direct you to a nice TC or Buick Park Avenue, and make sure you have plenty of prune juice.:)
I'm not an engineer, but I'll add my $.02 worth. GMS also markets an MAF for the Camaro, and since I also have a Camaro, I've read their advertising blurb regarding the part. In the ad copy, they make a reference to "State of the Art, Hybrid Electronics". I guess we're to assume that their sensor within the MAF housing is somehow more "aggressively calibrated" than the stock part, and this, along with the somewhat larger diameter housing, provides the HP increase. Several of the GM oriented mags have done back to back dyno tests, and all of them swear that 10-12 HP is picked up at the rear wheels. This, however, is at WOT. As I once mentioned a while back, how often do we drive at WOT? For the Camaro, the piece is $329. On one hand, 10 quick and easy HP for $329 isn't bad, but I'd rather spend the money on suspension mods that are effective at all speeds, not just the upper ranges. If the LS suddenly was gone, perish the thought, I'm at somewhat of a loss as to what I'd replace it with. I definitely don't care for FWD, so the choices are limited. I'd like to say another LS would probably be first choice, and an S-Type would be second, since the S was my wife's first choice when we bought the LS. Other that that, I don't know....maybe an M-B C320 ??
Oh joy... the part is in .....got the notice in the mail.... called the dealer to schedule an appointment... told him I need a loaner.... now I'm on a waiting list... not to worry... he said it shouldn't be more than a 2 week wait...... geesshhh...
Comments
And, after coming back from a vacation where I was stuck in a Buick LaSabre for a week, I really enjoy getting out of that boat and into my luxury ride. The seats just made all the difference in the world.
Oh, and I finally did it, hit 142mph for a brief moment and didn't hit a wall at a limiter, had to back off due to road conditions though.
I'll also repeat that going back to the dealer to get things fixed isn't all that convenient, however the "security" aspect of malfunctioning windows is really the prime issue to me. How can you protect yourself and/or your possessions if the windows won't stay up.
I sincerely feel that this is a case for a recall. Are the L-M folks listening ?? Or, does someone have to be carjacked before anything will be done on a widespread basis ??
By the way, has anyone heard if this is also a problem on the Jag S-Type ?
Brian, I'm sure that we could get an update if we emailed him. When he signed off here, he made it clear that the LS will always hold a special place in his heart. I'll volunteer if you don't care to.
I usually browse the Sunday paper used car section, just because. I sometimes think if my LS was totalled (hopefully it never will), what would I buy right now? Personally, I would probably have to lean towards a used BMW 330i, depending on the price. But, I might be able to get another LS for a great deal on the used car market since the resales for LS is pretty bad. Would never consider a FWD car, so that rules quite a few pretenders. Gotta be RWD, and gotta be in the 20k to 30k price range.
What about you guys?
Thank you Brian for the project car, and trying to optimize it. Maybe your feedback to Borla might help them make a better system. Like you said though isolate the HP Increase, take out the MAF.
Now at 10-12 HP for $683 dollars would not be a bad deal. Till then I will save my $683 for that M5 unless Lincoln would come up with a competitor. Brings up another question. Man this is somewhat of a Think/ Mod Testing Tank isn't it? Here it goes. I am sure Lincoln is not there yet but I will proposition it. What would we call the LINCOLN Performance equivalent of AMG and M?
Regards,
Airwolf1000
The tests that Brian and Stanny1 are doing on an isolated Borla system should prove interesting. I suspect the exhaust system is where the 02 MY LS V6 is getting its' extra punch.
V8 Sport LS - I still love it.
Acura 3.2TL Type S
Probably the best of the FWD sports sedans right now. My only issue (other than FWD) is that the front end looks like an Accord. The other day I saw two cars coming out of a side street, one behind the other, and I couldn't tell the difference until I saw them from the rear. One was an Accord and one was a TL. Other than that I like it.
Audi A6 2.7T
Gorgeous interior. But I'm not crazy about the rounded corners on the body. Gorgeous interior. And big bucks to get the 4.2 V8. Did I mention the gorgeious interior? Lincoln should let their interior designers drive an Audi for a few months.
BMW 5-series
3-series is too small. I'm not crazy about the interior, either, but I like the exterior and the performance. But not the price.
I don't personally care for the Maxima, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes or any GM product styling. Nothing specific, just not crazy about the overall package.
Now if the kids were grown it would be an easy choice: used Porsche 911 or Boxster S. And by the time I can get one a 2001 model should be really cheap. But in the meantime I'll take another LS in Silver/Charcoal.
There might be some other factors on the dyno run that may have contributed to the small difference. I'll know better if I can schedule some more dyno time tomorrow with the stock sensor and same tank of gas. It seems that out here in SoCal the premium octane rating has mysteriously dropped from 92 to 91 in a lot of places. If the dyno run shows a drop from stock pipes then there is something else wrong with the car and I may have to wait and put the stock pipes back on and redo the dyno runs, one after the other. All I gotta do is call in sick for a day and hope the boss doesn't call
I do have to tell you guys that watching your car be put on a dyno is a little heart-wrenching. The basic process is that the car gets strapped down on the roller, they start the car, put it in gear, and floor it until either the car hits redline or it runs out of power. Take it from me the sound coming out of the Borlas at complete full throttle at 140mph is rather terrifying being about two feet from the back. Not to mention that the dyno rollers are screaming. Not for the faint-of-heart. Hopefully it isn't shortening the life of the car too much.
But that would only be if I got enough money out of the lawsuit that I would file against the idiot who ran into me
second choice Subaru WRX (gotta love that 5.6sec 0-60, and AWD)
Like ronniepooh, front-drive is not an option for me. I'd probably have to give an S4 Avant a look, but I'd still probably wind up with another LS. After 13k miles, I've had excellent dealer support & service and absolutely no problems, and I still get compliments on a regular basis. At the gas station a couple days ago, a guy was staring at my car and said, "That's a beautiful color--what's it called?"
Not EVERYBODY hates ivory...;-)
BTW, my brother purchased a Boxter S 3 weeks ago (the SOB paid cash!) It is VERY nice, outstanding acceleration and handling, but the seats are not as comfortable as the LS for extended trips; and I can have almost as much fun in a Miata and save $40K. Who wouldn't rather have the Boxter than the Miata though, and it is his money.
I will reiterate that the mass air flow sensor may be the power robber in this particular setup. Definite answer will be the results after we do the next dyno using the stock sensor.
I know that jnowski, stanny1, ezaircon, and several others have had the Borlas on their cars for a while now. What are their thoughts regarding performance, gas mileage, etc.?
Even though the club sells the Borla I wouldn't sell them under false pretenses so we will truthfully report on the performance gains or lack of. Our first priority is the members of the club not the vendors. If all you get from the Borla is sound we'll let you know.
After having my Borla for a month, I am very pleased with the sound. Unobtrusive while cruising, but they speak-up when they are called for! It's a great compromise.
If my car got totaled, I guess that it would be another LS or a new T-bird. I'm really sold on this DEW platform!
Brian, I think that you are on the right track with the Dyno testing. When looking for improvements that are in the 5% and under range, you pretty well need to do the testing back to back with the same tank of gas, temp, humidity, etc. You may even have to factor in what the engine management system is doing. Just a difference in the trans fluid temps from test to test can affect HP a couple of percentage points. The other thing is that maybe you won't see a big increase in peak power, but the lower part of the torque curve will "fatten up" some.
By the way, the car guys on the radio have been talking about the change to 91 from 92. You lucky guys outside Calif have 93+. And what gas we have is pretty pathetic. Besides lower octane, it yields reduced mileage. So the BTU content must be lower as well. Then we have these smog laws. I'm surprised they run at all here in Calif.
The LS is 7.2 , 15.5 and 90.9 respectively. If you look at it in $/performance or Horsepower/speed I don't think that says a lot about the LS's ability to smoke everyone. But again that's perhaps not what all buyers look at.
And thankfully there are a ton of different cars for car nuts to choose from!
(squat, fooled ya!)
OK, I'd make one change. The new one would be white. Dark satin green looks terrific when it's clean, but only stays clean for about 10 minutes out of the garage. In fact, I'm convinced that my AC filter stays clean longer than average because dust and dirt are attracted to the paint.:)
Price is still an object for me & at this price point, there's no question in my mind. I'd choose another LS, warts and all!
Our friends got a new TL Type-S last week. Got a short ride as a passenger. Nice car, but my back hurt after 10 minutes in the front passenger's seat. I'll report back when I get to drive it.
Since they're not at all "car folks" I was curious as to why they got an S-type instead of the standard model. They really were clueless as to the differences. The chief reason: the wife wanted the white faced gauges! Now she's annoyed B/C they paid 2G's extra & the gauges flip colors at night!
If mine were totalled, and the insurance company didn't have to be taken to court to pay a decent settlement, there are only two choices as to companies and three as to models.
I've been enamored of late with Audi, but the more I read their archived messages, the less I want to deal with a company with almost no dealers and some significant problems. If I were a leasing kind of guy, I'd go with the A6 2.7T or the S4.
Other choice has to be the 530. If I had more money than (I do), the 540 is an interesting option. . .but in my case, it doesn't make sense.
I am TRULY disappointed that none of you offered up the use of your LS while mine slumbered at the dealer! What kind of fellow LSers are you?! Not to worry. As I got my car back after work, I won't need to come get any of your "loaner" LSes or therapy.
It's things like that that make you feel Ford is servicing your car and not Lincoln! I expect a certain level of service that Lincoln/Mercury can't or won't provide (BTW, I had to call about the status of my car after they had it for 24 hours, it was already done!). If Lincoln wants to truly compete with BMW/Acura/Lexus heck, even Cadillac, then they better start thinking like Lincoln and not Ford. I bought an LS, NOT a Sable! I don't want to be treated like I'm a charter member of AARP (no offence intended), I want to be treated just like the other marques treat their customers. As an example: co-worker has 95 540i. BMW screwed up a recall head replacement (they forgot to torque a head nut and it disintegrated in the head). It took them 3 weeks to diagnose the problem, find what was left of the nut and get a new head. During that time they gave him a brand spanking new 330i to drive. That is service! He gets comperable car, I get an Intrepid. Hmmmm.....
Oh yea. It's a no-brainer for me. V6 manual. Or maybe the V8, but another LS for sure! I still want to be the first with 2 in the garage!
"Launched in 1950 at the Turin Motorshow, the all-new Aurelia was designed to replace the ageing Aprilia. It used an all new 60º V6 engine, actually the world's first production V6 engine in a car."
From Lancia Company history.
How much does a Saleen or Rousch Mustang go for? I would NOT consider a FWD, not even a possibility. I'd drive another Audi A6 2.7T w/Quattro, as I did 2 years ago, but I keep coming back to the balance issue . . . not to mention that it is several thousand $ more than an LS and dealers are few and far between.
I hope I'm not jinxing myself here, I really don't want to replace my LS8 sport for a few more years yet, but if forced to, the MY03 would probably be worth waiting for.
I understand how a bigger diameter sensor will allow more air into the system, thereby allowing the vendor to calibrate the sensor with the corresponding increase in fuel flow, theoretically (I just love that word!) providing for a more efficient, and therefore producing more power. The oxymoron or quandry that I see is that if the front of the bigger sensor needs to fit into the stock air box opening and the back of the sensor needs to fit into the stock snorkel, how does more air flow through if you still have the same size parameters?
I could see it providing the increased efficiency if you also went to a different filter element, aka a round filter with a different nose to accomodate a bigger mouth(the sensor not mine. And also a bigger snorkel tube. But not the stock pieces. Are my assumptions off base? The sensor doesn't appear to have the shape of a venturi which would speed up the air flow through it either. This modification has always sounded a little like snake oil and on initial testing appears to validate my assumption.
Thoughts? Then I'll shut up about it.
P.S. While the Jag XKR is really nice, I'd probably buy 2 LSes for the same price, one manual and one V-8, just for variety!
Brian
If my LS bought the farm, I would wait for a MY 03 LS, hoping for a 250 HP V6 or a 300 HP V8.
Call me crazy, but my other car is a '99 2.5L 5 speed Porsche Boxter, and as an everyday commuter I like the LS just as much...when I can get it away from my wife. The LS Sport can hold its' own at 80 MPH on a 90 degree highway curve which is about as winding a road as I can find in South Florida.
Of course on a sunny weekend the Boxter, with the top down, and the B&B Tri-Flo exhaust purring, takes first prize. These two cars are quite a set of book ends and I am very fortunate to have them both.
P.S. Thank YOU, Brian!
In the ad copy, they make a reference to "State of the Art, Hybrid Electronics". I guess we're to assume that their sensor within the MAF housing is somehow more "aggressively calibrated" than the stock part, and this, along with the somewhat larger diameter housing, provides the HP increase.
Several of the GM oriented mags have done back to back dyno tests, and all of them swear that 10-12 HP is picked up at the rear wheels. This, however, is at WOT. As I once mentioned a while back, how often do we drive at WOT? For the Camaro, the piece is $329. On one hand, 10 quick and easy HP for $329 isn't bad, but I'd rather spend the money on suspension mods that are effective at all speeds, not just the upper ranges.
If the LS suddenly was gone, perish the thought, I'm at somewhat of a loss as to what I'd replace it with. I definitely don't care for FWD, so the choices are limited. I'd like to say another LS would probably be first choice, and an S-Type would be second, since the S was my wife's first choice when we bought the LS. Other that that, I don't know....maybe an M-B C320 ??
not to worry... he said it shouldn't be more than a 2 week wait......
geesshhh...