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Lincoln LS

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Comments

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Small problem with your simulation: you can't JUST change first gear. Changing first gear also changes second gear. If you don't know why then I question your technical analysis.

    And the T-bird seems to do just fine with a 3.58 rear end.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    No need for a different engine. Drop in the Jag version(s) up to and including the 385 HP supercharged monster. 4.6 is too big and probably a lot heavier. The SC 4.0L would give you more hp with less weight and should fit with little modifications.

    I still think SVT could do this with minimal investment. Jag engine, 18" wheels, Recaro seat, a few exterior changes and Viola! Manual would be nice but they could start with the SST automatic.
  • fantomfantom Member Posts: 211
    If anyone is looking for 17 inch LS chrome wheels you may want to check this out.

    Click here: eBay Motors item 594532354 (Ends Aug-30-01 08:52:26 PDT ) - Lincoln LS 17x7 chrome alloy wheels

    Please note that I know nothing about these guys.
  • leadfoot4leadfoot4 Member Posts: 593
    I'd pretty much go along with stanny's idea. And if the Cobra's rear end assembly doesn't have a means for camber adjustment, I'd add that too.
    I've got to sympathize with Kevin and his rear window situation. I know that mine are still OK, but I'm getting concerned again. As I've mentioned before, my wife's a teacher, and school is going back in session in two weeks. That means that she'll be driving the LS back into the ghetto again. I hope it stays secure.........
  • scottc8scottc8 Member Posts: 617
    I sympathize with Kevin as well. My windows are OK so far but I've rarely used them. Since this backorder business began, I don't touch them at all.

    I am a very happy Lincoln customer, but I think they should take a serious step at re-establishing some goodwill here. Once the parts are readily available, Lincoln should issue a recall, or TSB, or something, and replace them ALL, broken or not. They're going to fix most of them under warranty anyway.
  • hinkdoghinkdog Member Posts: 10
    Driving back into the ghetto?.......Everyone may not be able to live in a neighborhood which they THINK is upperclass or of yuppie status, but statistics have proven more cars per capital are stolen in your yuppie want to be neighborhood! Be careful someone in that ghetto area may just have to give your wife a ride given the reliability of the LS.
  • pnewbypnewby Member Posts: 277
    Has anyone here had a problem with the lever or button you squeeze when going in or out of Park or Reverse? Mine had a little piece of wire or spring fall out yesterday, then the whole lever popped out last night. I was able to reinsert it, but shifting is difficult. Off to the dealer this morning. Maybe I can get them to replace the RR window assembly since the TSB has changed since my LR failed.
  • leadfoot4leadfoot4 Member Posts: 593
    Is somebody a little "testy" here ???
  • jnowskijnowski Member Posts: 96
    Which simulator are you using? I've got "Cartest" (DOS) and "Cartest 2000" (Win95/98/etc.). It has turned out to be reasonably accurate provided you can dig up enough of the vehicle related parameters, (no small task usually).
  • noshonosho Member Posts: 119
    jnowski,

    Someone posted a Cartest simulation some time back that didn't realistically match up with car mag test results (I was considering getting it).

    When I saw such results, I decided to write my own using MathCad. So I'm simulating with a "home-grown" version. I haven't added wheel spin in (and probably won't) and am just starting to incorporate torque converter slip (low priority since I'm not interested in automatics).

    Yes, torque curves are usually a guess and gear ratios are tough to find and air drag friction value are also a guess. I have some standard air drag coefficients that match up well with 0-120 results that the mags publish. The generic values work well assuming you're not simulating a van or truck.
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    Forget the duct tape. It's real easy to take off the rear door panel and drill a small hole in the galvanized track below the sliding trolley, insert a cotter pin and that window will be "stuck up" like it belonged there. While you're there, you can install a Polk DX7 and improve your sound. It's all at the club web site.
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Member Posts: 420
    I suppose I'm pushing my luck here, but if these window failures are directly correlated with outside ambient temperatures, then I would have thought my rear windows would have failed long ago. I don't think any other city in the country can boast of more 100+ degree than Phoenix (but it's a dry heat, 8>P). I regularly use the global open feature via the key fob without incident, and I'm nearly through my second summer. I hear no strange sounds eminating from the mechanism when in use. I empathize with those folks (Kevin, in particular) that have been subjected to this annoyance, but I must say, there are better ways of securing the window closed than using tape. Stanny's solution isn't all that complicated for an individual to do oneself, and certainly within the capability of a dealer that wants return business.

    On the other hand, if you think putting tape on the window will somehow embarass the dealer enough to take action sooner, rather than later, go for it! If that's the course of action you prefer to take, I suggest that you ensure that the dealership name is prominantly displayed on the vehicle to achieve full effect.

    If (when?) this happens to me, I'd pursue the first course of action rather than the second. Better to build a positive relationship than an antagonistic one.
  • desertguydesertguy Member Posts: 730
    Well yes, I can match your temperature here in Palm Desert/Palm Springs. And, it's even dryer here . Both of my back windows failed early on(my build date is 5/99). Both front windows made such a noise that something was replaced in them as well. The global open feature is great in a hot climate like this as you can lower all windows as you approach the car. Too bad it has to be so risky to do it.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Check out Dick Cupka's update on the Maraude. He says with the 300 hp and 3.55 final drive it is testing at 6.5 seconds. Interesting that this big car with 4-speed automatic is using a much more aggressive final drive than the LS 8. Some of the posters here who want the more aggressive final drive might be on to something.
  • airwolf1000airwolf1000 Member Posts: 225
    O.K. Guys I thought we would have all learned you can't just go on bolting parts on to make what is a good system better. I thought the Borla, and the K&N Cones proved that. No real benefit unless if you deal with some issues which Ford Could probably do but here it goes. Does the Cobra Suspension have the AntiSquat characteristics of the current LS? Also wouldn't Replacing the Rear with that of a Cobra remove the Compliance Bushings(I Believe that is what they are called) that allow for pseudo 4 wheel steering which the current LS benefits from? I think we wouldn't be improving the LS, we would be Supplanting our LS with a Cobra. I don't particularly care for Mustangs or Cobra, Especially their slide happy rear ends. The LS is about refinement not Brute force. Screw off the Shelf parts. Lincoln needs to innovate. We need Progress. That is the problem with american car companies. They recycle. While I am sure Foreign Industry Leading Car companies do the same they also innovate and come out with new Technologies, Like Acura (VTEC, All Aluminum Chasis, Active Torque Transfer System), Lotus Elise, Audi A8 with its space frame etc.

    The LS might cost a little more but if other makers can do it for a reasonable price so should Lincoln. Key here is refine and innovate.

    Regards,
    Airwolf

    For every problem, there is a solution which is simple, neat and wrong -
    H.L.Mencken
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Member Posts: 782
    Slightly off-topic, but looks like Firestone and the Rodriguez family have reached a settlement in the tire case.

    Brian
  • reneleblancreneleblanc Member Posts: 144
    As with lolaj42, I live in "The Valley of the Sun", and I too have not hesitated to use the global open feature to cool the car before getting in (so I don't immediately die).

    So far, my rear windows haven't failed. I spoke with one of the Jack Ross LM service managers who told me they've seen quite a few rear window failures, and the parts are still back ordered.

    He says the temporary solution they use, while waiting for parts, is to take off the door panel and use one of the little screw-on window security locks, that you can purchase at any hardware store, to clamp the regulator in the 'up' position. This obviates the need to drill holes or otherwise modify the existing parts. It would also be relatively easy to implement this 'fix' on the road if the window mechanism failed while on a trip since no tools other than a screw driver or similar pry-off tool to get the door panel off would be needed.
  • leadfoot4leadfoot4 Member Posts: 593
    Knowing that "corporate think" probably wouldn't get a specialty model off the ground, here's a thought.
    GM has worked with SLP Engineering (Street Legal Performance) to build the Firehawk Firebirds and SS Camaros. They're done "off line" at SLP's facility which is a couple of miles down the road from the GM assembly plant.
    They combine GM parts with special parts that they manufacture, to build a "tuner special" that is then sold through the normal dealerships. GM has the car to sell, without the headaches and costs of a limited volume piece.
    I can see it all again, just like in the 60's.... Kar Kraft is once again in the business of building FoMoCo's "skunk works" specials. Just think of the possibilities !!
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    One can always pin the window up and add tape for the visual effect.
    One way to "fix" the LS rear end and retain the superior suspension is to just substitute the Cobra LSD "pumpkin" for the wierd 8" non-LSD pumpkin. Then you can get more of a selection of gear ratios because this is a much more common Ford gear set-up, like the Maurauder 3:55.
    A deeper rear ratio is no problem if you have a higher fifth gear ratio. The LS Manual could pick up at least .2 in 0-60 with a 3:58 rear but to do that you would HAVE to have an overdrive Getrag (six-speed is Getrag's only solution). My experience is that an optimum fifth overdrive, whether manual or auto, is around .70-.73:1. Some transmission designers argue, and I'm sure that Getrag is among them, that fifth should be a part of the "close ratio" set, i.e. that fifth should be 1:1. That may be fine for the autobahn, but here the acceleration game is over at relatively low speeds. Fourth should be 1:1, fifth should be a humongous overdrive. Hey, krauts, it's snooze and cruise in fifth. But that's why Getrag defies convention in their five speeds by having no overdrive fifth. They expect their clients to buy the six-speed, but that is way above budget for Ford (except in the Focus SVT, of course, and the Infiniti G35, Nissan Sentra SE-R, MB 240,Audi,new Maxima and Altima, etc). Fords problem is that Manual transmission design is not economical in-house for the PLANNED volume (chicken and egg problem here). Granted, besides a few Germans and Japanese (and some Tremec guys), designing Manual trannys is a lost art. Ford is having real problems designing a new truck manual according to Blue Oval News. You could probably put all the Manual engineers on the head of a pin. So it's a no brainer for American manufacturers to farm it out - Getrag, Tremec, ZF are the big independents.Toyota just built one for the Lexus IS300 but it took over a year. As is Japanese practice, it is a five-speed with overdrive fifth and 1:1 fourth. But the Japanese will export that model; the LS Manual does not have to compete in the world market. But it will have to compete with the world competition that increasingly will bring out six-speeds in the U.S. MY 2002 will be "The Year of the Six-Speed". I suggest LM start designing the bellhousing for the Getrag sixer now (it may bolt-up to the fiver bell housing now, but may not fit the console, tranny mounts, etc.) With an overdrive six-speed, LM can put the T-Bird 3:58 rear ratio in the rear and have an instant MPG, 0-60, and NVH improvement.
    Otherwise, the LS Manual may be extinct. And I am willing to pay the difference between Getrag five and six speed, just as I have a standing order for an aftermarket LSD unit if one is ever built (things are looking better with the T-Bird, Jag and Mustang on the same platform). It shouldn't cost more than a Borla but the difference in handling is worth every penny. I love four wheel drifts but I have to restrain myself on the powering in and out for lack of control (LSD).
  • noshonosho Member Posts: 119
    Ford has just put the LS V6 in a miata and put an RX-7 5-speed in it (the tranny is still in production). With a 3.58 rear, the LS with the RX-7 tranny would get the same gas mileage as the present Getrag (2850 rpm @ 70mph). Such a setup would shave a few tenths off of the 0-60 times and give better launch "feel".
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think you're on to something here. Think of how much the auto manufacturers could save if they just did their performance tuning and fuel-mileage calculations with a simple mathcad program like yours. How silly of them to spend all that money on supercomputers and sophisticated modeling programs and real world testing when it can all be done in a spreadsheet! No wonder cars cost so much!
  • klarson1klarson1 Member Posts: 60
    thanks for all the support....
    the only reason I haven't taken off the door panel and pinned the thing up is because I'm afraid I break something... and then the dealer will charge me to fix....

    besides the tape has a nice look to it... I have a boss at work.. who is bringing home probly 150k per year who duct taped his radio ant to the front windshield when it got knocked off the fender of his 89 tbird... this was 2 years ago..drove around like that for a year until he finally bought a new car...

    I am hoping he notices my use of tape and realizes my upward potential in the organization :<)
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    No one has been able to post for over 3 hours and two of my posts disappeared. Some problem at Edmund's or I'm now on the same list as giowa!
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    It seems that Town Hall has gone down a couple of times in the last 5 or 6 hours. No one (at least not me!) removed any posts from here.

    I'm sorry this has happened. I don't have any more information, though. It's been just as aggravating to me, I can assure you. :-)

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Member Posts: 793
    I sure hope that Mark and company don't get put out of a job by all these simulators! I know that the simulators that I deal with turn out controllers that are ready to be signed off as soon as they hit the floor! NOT!!! After we de-simulate them, we train them in real world situations that NO simulator can, well, simulate. I believe Mark and company get paid well to turn out the best product they can given their restraints. I wish I could get a 1500 rpm cruise but the tranny would downshift at the slightest hint of acelleration. Given real world driving conditions, I'm satisfied with my trannies operation. Thanks Mark for a job well done!
  • streetracerstreetracer Member Posts: 134
    I know BMW usually uses higher (numerically) and closer gear and final drive ratios, then Lincoln and Cadillac. The ratios seem to be a big part of their acceleration performance, especially given their usually lower output narrower. torque band engines.

    I know they also benefit more from high RPM launches (brake torquing, clutch pop), than detroit iron, which would usually just spin its wheels. However, does any one have any data on how this effects their midrange acceleration ?

    Has anyone seen a comparison of 20-40, 40-60, 60-80, 80-100 times ? I am specifically talking about off idle acceleration in cruising gear. You can downshift or let the auto do it for you, but it has to be done after the clock starts not before.

    I remember seeing something like this a long time ago in a sedan comparison, and cars like lincolns, olds, and buicks were much quicker then Beemers, Audis, and Mercs. I think its also about passing power !!!
  • jnowskijnowski Member Posts: 96
    I only dabble with vehicle simulations, but over the years I have run many SPICE simulations of electronics circuits. The quality of the information that you get from the simulations is only as good as the quality of the model you construct for the simulator to run. Make a crappy model and you get crap, but make an accurate model and you can get results which will rival real world results. A simulator is just a tool just like a hammer and saw, and it depends solely on the skills of the user to achieve proper results.
  • noshonosho Member Posts: 119
    Car & Driver attempts to provide such information by including 3 different acceleration categories: street start: 5-60, top gear: 30-50 & 50-70.

    I say "attempt" because the top gear tests are valid for manual tranny's only (auto's will down shift). These test are also for WOT which normally isn't the case on the road. But it's better than no information at all.
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    I looked up the article "Mazda's Secret Miatas Revealed" in the Sept R&T that you referred to. How did I miss this stuff? Ford engineers in Detroit stuffed a Duratech (the engine pics look more like the Jag version to me) in a Miata, took the Miata six-speed out and installed the five-speed from the RX-7 (still made in Japan). This is called the Miata MPS "Detroit". It mentions that this Miata now has the same power to weight ratio as a 911! But that's not the real secret. The article states that the Duratech in MY 2003 will have 250 bhp and 230 ft/lbs torque! This puts the Miata in Boxster S territory.
    What they don't say: 1. That the RX-7 five-speed tranny can handle the Duratech's torque 2. That they already made a bellhousing to adapt the Duratech to the RX-7 tranny (clutch also). 3. That the RX-7 tranny follows traditional gear ratios including 1:1 fourth and overdrive fifth.
    4. Ford owns lots of Mazda. 5. The RX-7 tranny is well proven and more affordable than the Getrag now used in the LS Manual.
    So... Scooter wake up (as if you don't know about this Miata already). Why not put the RX-7 overdrive five-speed in the LS? Then we'll have the overdrive fifth so we can have the 3:58. Instant better CAFE, NVH and 0-60. The prototype bellhousing to match the Duratech and RX-7 tranny is already done. The R&D you spend on this will be offset by the lower cost of the tranny. Call Jac now!
  • scottc8scottc8 Member Posts: 617
    I agree 100%. My '00 has never had the reflash, and I seldom use SST, because the performance of the transmission is superb in auto mode and perfectly matched to the torque characteristics of the V8. It shifts quickly and at exactly the right spot. Pulling out into heavy highway traffic at about 80% throttle, the tach needle looks like a metronome, swinging back and forth between 4 and 5k rpm.

    nosho, an automatic transmission does NOT invalidate 50-70 (or whatever) performance data. The instantaneous downshift, with no letup on the throttle, is a lot of the reason I prefer an auto tranny, as I do a lot of highway passing. No "do I have enough torque here or should I downshift", just mash the go pedal and let 'er rip. I'm not knocking stick shifts here, but there are performance advantages to a well-designed automatic.

    Guess I'm just lucky to have the perfect car for my kind of driving. 0-60 doesn't interest me much; 60-100 is where I live, and where the LS8 auto excels.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    You guys sound like the Cadillac CTS people focusing (drooling?) on the purported 2003 V-6 upgrade to 240 hp. A lot can happen in the future. Is an interesting article in Road & Track. Besides using the RX-7s 5-speed manual, says the Ford Detroit engineers also used the RX-7's driveshaft, final drive, and halfshafts. There is no explanation as to how the current 3.0L Duratec V-6 which produces 210 hp and 205 lb-ft today will produce 250 hp and 230 lb-ft in 2003. Will they bump up displacement to meet Cadillac's 3.2L V-6 (which only makes 218 lb-ft). Use VVT? The writer says "if" the Duratec makes it into the Miata and then also discusses possibility Mazda might use a 250 hp Rotary engine. Too bad the financial state of Ford and Mazda isn't too bright right now or projected to be so for rest of 2001 and 2002.
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    I don't see a Duratech Miata either. Detroit is not in the Jim Wanger"s "make a GTO mode" like the Japanese are in now. They can do it but they follow and don't lead the market. The Japanese forced Detroit into small cars and five-speeds and they still react late even though they have the hardware. The Japanese aren't afraid to build new engines and trannys at the drop of a hat and their lead times are short. Now that Ford is in such a cash crunch (Firestone,stocks,recalls), they may grind to a technological/competitive stall. Now's the time to turn out "tuner" editions. Mazda has Racing Beat to turn out special editions (MP3). Toyota has TRD. Ford needs to SVT the LS. Small organizations don't have the overhead and bureaucracy and decision making can be spontaneous.
    The RX-7 tranny would change the whole personality of the LS. With it's reduced cost, some of the R&D for the bellhousing, console mods could be covered. It's win-win. Just in time for the MY2003 improvement cycle. And my lease is up then. Perfect timing!
  • noshonosho Member Posts: 119
    When I stated that C&D "attempts" to give passing time numbers and "exclude" automatics, it's not a knock of automatics. People tend to look at numbers for comparisons and not take the context into account.

    As an example, take the Aug, C&D issue testing of two door convertible "muscle" cars: manual tranny - BMW M Roadster, Corvette and the Boxster S - with the automatic Mercedes SLK32 AMG.

    Manual top gear times:
    30-50 BMW/Corvette/Boxster - 7.8/11.9/9.1
    50-70 BMW/Corvette/Boxster - 5.7/11.5/9.0

    SLK times: 30-50 - 2.2 / 50-70 - 2.8

    The comparisons aren't "fair." It's the classic apples versus oranges comparison. The manuals are top gear test and the automatic is passing gear test.

    I also stated that any information is better than none at all. Automatics compared to autos is valid as is manuals to manuals.

    The C&D table gave no indication that the SLK was a passing gear test so someone glancing at the table would see that the manual cars are real "dogs." But the information is definitely better than none at all.
  • scottc8scottc8 Member Posts: 617
    You're absolutely right; I misunderstood your earlier post. My point was that performance was performance whether you got it with a downshift or not. But you already knew that.

    Ray, thanks for bringing up the relationship (or friction, no pun intended) between limited slip and traction control. Considering how well my car performed in the snow last winter, giving up TC and/or AdvanceTrac for the rare benefits of LSD would be a lousy trade.
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Member Posts: 420
    Yeah! what he said!

    Right on packv12, I could never have said it as well as you!
  • garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    Scottc8 - you got me wondering about your comment some time back about K&N letting more dirt through to the engine - at least I thought that's what you said. So I called K&N. They sent me the results for a SAE J-726 test using ISO test dust. Whatever that means. Anyway, the initial efficiency of a Fram, AC delco, and K&N was 96.47%, 97.40%, and 97.11% respectively. The cummulative efficiency (in the same order) was 99.52%, 99.29%, and 99.05% respectively. They seem essentially the same. I can't imagine .3% to .5% would make any difference - and I guess if you are one to keep a clean filter, then you are operating at the lower initial efficiency range which is a much bigger difference than exists between the 3 different filters.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Don't think anyone said Ford or any of the Big Three are nearing an "imminent demise". But you have to be kidding if you don't know where the bad news is coming from. Just open a newspaper or decent business publication. I open today's paper and a headline blares "Ford Workers Now Plan for Uncertain Future". Another screams about the Explorer/Firestone court case settlement with more to follow. One on other side of page talks about how each of the Big Three are headed for harder times. Each is losing market share. Using huge discounts and subsidies to move cars. Stock prices falling. Credit rating agencies nervous (which could raise borrowing costs). Major layoffs, possible plant closures. And the overall U.S. market expected to decline by over 1 million units in 2001 compared to 2000. In less than a decade the Big Three have watched their market share slide from about 75 percent to 65 percent. And it continues to fall. Now Japan, Korea, and Europe have moved from undermining car sales to going after the highly lucrative SUV, truck, and minivan markets. But I digress and I'll let you converse about all those projected changes in 2003. The Cadillac CTS guys are doing the same thing. (GM's news isn't any better.) Why let any bad news today spoil the fun of endless summer dreaming? If my wife and I could just agree on something, we'd buy it. Now she likes the IS300. She saw a nice green one today and spoke with the owner. I think it is ugly. And that 6.5 sec. Marauder is now tempting tempting me. And you and the CTS guys have me dreaming about 2003. If only I could win the lottery and buy a Viper and a RR!
  • scottc8scottc8 Member Posts: 617
    Yes, that's what I said. I'm relying on memory here (always dangerous). Sometime last fall there was a lot of discussion on this board about the merits of K&N filters. Someone posted a letter from a technician (I think) from K&N in which there were figures for efficiency. I won't pretend to remember the figures, I'm sure they're identical or close to what you found. The one that stuck in my mind was that a slightly dirty paper air filter would trap virtually 100% of the dust particles entering it, whereas a K&N never achieves that level of filtration. Simple to me; a less restrictive filter lets in more dirt. Period. An insignificant amount? Who can say?

    My car will have 130-140k miles on it by the time it's paid off. And I'm not certain I'll be trading it in even then. I do not baby it; I drive it a lot, and with gusto. But most people would consider my maintenance routine excessive, and there is no performance enhancement that I consider worth giving up engine longevity for.

    Not at all sure I'm right, it's just what floats my boat.
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Member Posts: 420
    You neglect to mention that while all cars sold in 2001 will be 1 million less than 2000, 2001 is still expected to be the third best sales year ever. Further, if things keep deteriorating in Japan, car prices (and everything else) will be coming down due to deflation. Just how sound are all those Japanese manufacturers? I think we'll soon find out . . .
  • jnowskijnowski Member Posts: 96
    packv12, right on!! (for the most part) Some of us couldn't get TC or the LSD, (bummer). :-)

    K&N: I've used K&N filters on just about every car I've owned, most of which went 100K-150K+ miles with absolutely no problems due to "particle ingestion". I believe that the off road people, who love to race in that dust, dirt and sand (the Baja 1000 comes to mind), also swear by the K&N products. And then there is Ford SVT who specify K&N as OEM equipment. And those are the kind of things which float my boat.
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Member Posts: 793
    I guess since they are heading the way of Rambler and Studebaker they better stop "wasting" money on motorsports. I just finished watching a Winston Cup race. I wonder how much money Ford is throwing away on Elliott Sadler's sponsorship? Or GM on Kevin Harvick's? Or the sponsorship Ford and GM do in BGN, ARCA, etc. And Dodge re-entering NASCAR? Seems to me if they were so strapped for cash, the first thing to go would be racing since that costs mega-bucks. I can't believe Ford sells Taurus' based on their success in racing, or Chevy, Monte Carlo's.

    Sounds like gummit cyphering. If I planned on selling 5 million cars and I only sell 3, I've "lost" 2 million sales. It doesn't matter that I still outsold last year.

    Again, me also thinks me smells a rat.
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Member Posts: 782
    If you really want to know the state of the Lincoln, the LS, and you want to make suggestions to people who can actually have control of the LS, I'd suggest you make plans for LS Mania 2 at Wixom on Oct. 12. This way you can talk directly to the chief program engineer for the LS.

    Details are at www.llsoc.com.

    Brian
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    finally bit the dust.
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Member Posts: 420
    Did you notice any precursers prior to the failure? What were the circumstances at the time of the failure? Inquiring minds (and anxious owners) want to know!
  • GtomaGtoma Member Posts: 6
    Does anyone know if the overheating issue has been resolved and if production has started? I am anxiously awaiting my 2002 LS!

    -Tom
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    There were none. It just failed as my daughter tried to roll it up. No warning.
  • sniemietzsniemietz Member Posts: 40
    Well it happened again for the 3rd time. The rear passenger window failed this weekend. I almost made it 2 weeks without with a failure. This makes the 4th time my windows have failed (3-RR and 1-LR). I have rolled this window down maybe 5 times since the last failure. I called the dealer this morning and all he had to say was bring it in and they will put in another window regulator. I know that it has been suggested that heat has played a role in the failure of these windows. I live in Austin, TX where we have hit 100 degree days for 40 days in a row, but since my regulators have been replaced so often how could heat play a role in this? I mean they are only installed for a very short time (10-15 days) before these parts fail. Come On..!!!!!! There must be something more to this problem.

    I have said it once before and I'll say it again. This is the last Ford product I will purchase. I love the way it drives and handles but I will not tolerate poor quality..in anything. I thought by purchasing a Lincoln I would get a higher level of quality, but I have now come to the conclusion that a Lincoln is just a Ford. I know my 94 Chevy truck has not had any window problems. Think of how many times I've rolled down the window on that automobile. I can't even roll the window down a dozen times on my $35K luxury automobile without a failure.
  • gkarggkarg Member Posts: 230
    sniemietz: just the info I didn't want to hear (a 3rd failure!)

    I'm still waiting on my replacement parts/regulators for BOTH of my rear windows. (only the LR gave a warning sound...) The RR crashed on July 28th (2nd time) and the LR shortly after. Both were "put into the upward" position by the dealer & NEITHER HAVE BEEN FIXED! The RR is down enough that it lets A LOT of wind noise in and even low-pressure water (when washing it.)

    As for the S-type... I stopped at a brand new Jaguar dealership north of Pittsburgh on Friday and asked the parts guy if they had seen a lot of window failures... he looked "surprised" at first... then proceeded to tell me that they've had quite a few go and even mentioned that a front door regulator had failed in one!

    Perhaps Lincoln should send us a new "repair kit" in place of the original, only this time include:

    touch-up paint
    mini drill w/carter pins
    duct tape
    2 garbage bags

    I still love my LS. (but the Jaguar X-type was looking rather intriguing - too bad it is so small.)
  • desertguydesertguy Member Posts: 730
    My gift included touchup paint. Yours didn't?
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    All this talk of failing window regulators has me pausing a moment in memory of Philip Crosby. He wrote the now famous book Quality is Free. Believe he wrote it in late '70s. Forgot where I saw his obit, but read it last week. Didn't seem like his passing received too much notice here or in media. Think Lincoln might need to dust off their old copies and re-study his zero defects philosophy? Too bad for Detroit that Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura have kept their dog-earred copies in use?
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