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Comments
I am going to replace the rear shocks and basically disconnect the rear actuator and see what happens. If it goes nuts, I will re-install the rear shocks and take back to dealer if there are any warning lights turned on the dash.
I saw an add for a new Volvo yesterday (forget what model), they will be offering a ISC type suspension as well. Their's will have three settings: comfort, sport, and advanced (whatever that means). I believe I read that it can adjust up to 300 times a second, I forget what our axioms are capable of.
Other than the quirky ride at times, I believe the Axiom is a great vehicle and I do enjoy driving it every time I start the engine.
-mike
P.S. One comment to the owners of Axiom who think that the Axiom is nothing more than just a truck: if you think that the Axiom is a truck because it's a frame based SUV, then what do you call a true SUV? Lexus RX3x0, Toyota RAV4? As far as I know these vehicles called "car based SUV's" while the SUV's built on a frame called frame based SUV's? If this is the case, what is the description of a truck, and what is a description of an SUV? And if the Axiom is nothing more than truck, what makes it worse than Blazer, Explorer, Montero ot Xterra?
We found no apparent external damage but did find the right rear shock was leaking. Apparently the dealership didn't even do a visual inspection when they had the car to check over. I don't think this is creating my problems but gives an example of their attitude about really even trying.
As far as other shocks go we measured the length and probably rancho's will fit as their dampening works regardless of how compressed the shock is. They aren't sure about issues regarding unhooking the Intel. Susp.- if or how it could be incorporated into other components of the vehicle such as anti lock brakes or engine computer (in one article Isuzu says suspension takes into account throttle position etc.)
Again I've driven one where the suspension worked properly and ride quality was better than I expected. With a leaking shock at less than 2000 miles and 3 weeks old I will bet they have other issues they don't want to cover. Too bad because I believe the ride quality is the biggest reason they haven't attained the sales they projected.
I put OME shocks from ARB on my Trooper and they are great. Another brand to consider. www.arbusa.com
Yesterday during inspection we discovered 7 wires running into the top of the rear shock covered by this plastic. It appears the rear shocks have the actuators built inside the top of the shock itself and the wires run to a yolk towards the middle of the vehicle. My guess is that the rears aren't as sophisticated as the front.
Thanks for the info. on disconnecting ISC please keep us posted on your experience with the fuse out.
I'm going to file a complaint with the BBB per owners manual and go through arbitration since they didn't even inspect or replace the leaking shock. Anyone been through this before?
-mike
It is different without the fuse. The Ax seems more predictable. A less confusing ride, it responds to the bumps as one would expect. Sure, it's still a trucky ride, but seems to me somewhere between 'sport' and 'comfort'. It might be my imagination, but I got a sense of how awesome the Ax could be with a nicely tuned set of shocks. Needless to say the suspension mode switch is inoperative.
Two more things; no warning lights came on and I would really like to see more drivers pull this fuse and post their impressions. It would be very interesting.
I'm leaving the fuse out for a while.
Don't think the Ax is supposed to have a ride that shakes when it shouldn't etc.. remember I've driven one when the ISC worked and it rode well.
Being able to disable the computer and have some negative ride qualities disappear should be a definite test to show the dealers that the system isn't functioning properly.
Again, I believe Isuzu is aware of the problem and doesn't want to fix it. This is crap, that's one of the reasons I bought a new vehicle was to be covered by a warranty to repair malfunctioning items.
One of my friends suggested contacting the Natl. Hwy. Traffic Safety Admin, he said any safety related complaints looked into by them would have to be answered by Isuzu. An improperly functioning suspension is definitely a safety related issue.
I think ideas like these (there is a lemon law book out I might purchase) and others, if worked on by a group might force Isuzu to be honest and address this problem.
It's a pain and I'm tempted to just pay the money for other shocks and lose the ISC (I don't want to lose the sport setting though) and move on with.
http://www.monroe.com/about_monroe/press_detail.asp?prevpage=am_d- - efault.asp&KEY=10
Article covers safety issues with even one shock not performing properly.
Your Ax, however, may be broken.
Being an engineer by profession and therefore scientifically analytical, I merely removed the active ride fuse and recorded my initial impressions after performing a test. I do believe that the ISC is a gimmick, and that the algorithm is currently written to perform at the extreme ends of the ride settings of Sport and Comfort. This seems wise, no point in having 2 settings in the mid-range. Quite frankly, it's possible that my impressions are based upon an emotional reaction. This is why, in an earlier post I made a note about wanting to see quantative measurements and in my last post qathering data to support or discredit my observations.
-mike
I tried to reason through this and here's what I came up with...someone who understands the mechanics of this better, please advise...
The way I see it, with the fuse pulled, the shocks will either default to the softest or harshest setting OR stay in the baseline mode of whatever setting they were in when you removed the fuse. I think the latter has to be the case.
If the computer controls the shocks, adjusting the ride as you move, then if you pull the fuse before you start the car, wouldn't the shocks just stay in the setting they were in the last time you drove it (the rested/parked sport or comfort setting)?
So if you were in comfort mode the shocks would stay in the baseline comfort mode once the fuse was pulled. Now, this could alter the ride in that there would be no computer adjustments as you move (these adjustments may be the reason for the sometimes jittery ride people have commented about).
I need to do a test...set the Ax in sport mode...drive it...park it and then remove the fuse and then drive it again...just to see if it stays in what would be baseline sport mode.
If anybody has done this...let me know...also, let me know what you think of this reasoning...
I agree with Sbcooke, probably a set of good shocks would make a world of difference. Hopefully by pulling that fuse the ISC light will stay off when replacing the shocks.
I don't think for one minute that the ride defaults to the last ISC setting. I think it defaults to a mid setting.
I agree that some nice aftermarket shocks would probably remedy the ISC situation, although don’t expect a sedan like feel, probably less jitteryness, more control and a slightly less bumpy ride.
Any recommendations for shocks?
One very frequent visitor of this forum once said (when I first complained about the jittery ride) that Axiom is a truck and if I wanted a Soccer Mom Vehicle, I should have gotten a Highlander. I have one question. What is wrong with a smooth riding truck? Although I love my Axiom, especially its looks, unfortunately I do not predict bright future for Isuzu in US. Competition is just too tough out there to allow for unrefined suspension, poor choice of interior appointments and options and a hefty price on top of it.
Let me correct myself....
You can get one that rides like a caddy and can haul, etc, but not at the mid-$20K range. If you look at the $50K+ range sure you can get all kinds of funky suspensions and still tow, but that's a different class of vehicles.
Perhaps you would have been happier with a car-based vehicle that gives you that nice cushy ride you want? Why did you choose a truck v. car based vehicle? That's the question you gotta ask yourself. Heck car based ones will also get better milage as well.
-mike
I also have to agree that the Axiom ride could have been improved with a better shock system. I suspect they went to production with what they had and now they don't have the $ to update it. Too bad. They seem to shoot themselves in the foot at every turn these days...
john
Maybe I'll fit some aftermarket shocks and see how my Ax rides, if I don't like it I'll put the OEM shocks back in and reconnect the ISC.
The 300M I rented had hundreds of tiny paint bubbles on the passenger side door post and this ride was brand new. The interior trim is not refined. Heck, you can see the door paint while sitting in the cabin with the door shut. I am a former Chrysler employee so I know a little about their cars. I wrote software for them.
john
What's that? Oh sorry, this is the Isuzu Axiom forum.
I also have disconnected my fuse and back twice now and although the ride is better with it out I still have a pretty constant vibration in the floorboard and seat. The ISC in my case is probably not the problem but is reacting to possibly another faulty shock or ?
I replaced my tires with Michelin Cross Terrain's (Goodyears had radial runout) and they do absorb road irregularities better but again don't solve original shakey problem.
After the dealer installs new right rear shock they will try to diagnose problem. I'll keep you posted.
250 horsepower? Sounds great. It's too bad about the ride quality as I think the Ax is a great vehicle and with even more power is very competitive in the class. It doesn't even make it into most comparison tests any more.
Funny how the Rodeo outsells it, even though with similar options, a Rodeo costs about the same.
On another note I fitted an after-market rear spoiler/wing a few weeks ago and am now convinced that my gas mileage has increased. On my drive into work, 10 miles freeway and street mixed, I used to average 22.5 mpg. I now average 23.8 mpg.
I'm not sure about the spoiler making a difference, it's the only thing I've changed 'performance' wise.
Here is where I bought the spoiler:
http://www.customautotrim.com/spoilers/isuzu_wings.htm
And here are some pics of one installed (not mine), (thanks to Deton8r):
http://home.earthlink.net/~deton8r/index3.htm
Did anyone take their vibrating brakes in for service?
I think we might get 17-18 if the percentages were reversed...
SOWR...so you could basically drive to and from work (if that's the only place you drove it) for a whole month on ONE tank of gas? Wow, that's great...
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Dennis P.
Please remember that no matter what SUV you are driving at high speed, if you get a problem (blow out, debris, unexpected lane change, etc.) good luck surviving. I was driving to work a few months back in my Ax, and, like you I had concerns about it high speed capabilities, someone in front cut me off and I swerved to avoid. The Ax performed very well, in fact I remember thinking "wow, that was pretty cool".
Have now been driving it for 1500 miles. Back end is a bit bouncy for a truck. I've had other SUVs for 17 years now, this one is the most car like I've had. However, this one handles way way better than any other I've ever had. If anyone doubts how well this SUV handles on the road, test drive a pre 95 SUV(Full frame vehicle no unibody cars) and get back to me. In sport mode, Power Transmission mode, it handles like a full size sedan or better. It's got plenty of power and corners really well for a truck.
It's not a sport car, but who expects a full frame vehicle to do that? It's a truck and it handles like a large car. It's suprising how well it handles. I've driven plenty of vehicles, including s500 Mercedes and full size LTDs and Caprices. This one handles as well or better.
The ride is still a truck ride. I've been driving trucks and SUVs for years, this is far and away the best riding vehicle I've ever driven in that isn't a car. Yes, the back end bounces a bit in comfort mode. Golly gee, it's the end of the world. My 1986 Bronco II bounced so much at high speed I felt like death was imminent at more times that I could count.
It could use some work but by and large, this vehicle is a solid piece of work. The interior is nice, it handles well and it's much less subject to wind than my 1990 Jimmy. If you need a car with 4x4 get a Subaru. If you need a truck that will handle close on to what a German sport Sedan will do, this isn't to far off.
If you're going to TOW, why are you not getting a Suburban, Yukon or a big ole pickup truck designed for the job. An Ax will do well for small towing...but 5k+ boat(I.e. salt water 20+) pay the 10k premium and get your 35k+ vehicle designed for the job. Towing a "lake" 18' boat, the Ax can handle it without issue.
It's a decent vehicle and Isuzus will go a long time. Just don't expect to get a ride like a Maxima, with power like a Corvette and towning like a Suburban.
When in sport mode, the Ax handles very well, even at high speeds (I have been in triple digits on the highway and never felt like the vehicle was out of control).
I also agree that the comfort mode can be just a little too bouncy...especially at slower speeds, but I never thought it was as bad as some have mentioned.
I guess something to consider, personal differences of opinion aside, it seems like there are some consistency issues with the Ax. It sounds like some folks have good reliable vehicles while others have been unlucky enough to get a quirky Ax. Unfortunately, more often than not, the problems seem to stem from the ISC.
Even though I am pleased with my Ax, I am always looking to improve it...so if anybody determines a good combo of tires and shocks (aside from the GY Integrity and the ISC delivered with the car) I'd be interested in hearing about how it has positively affected the ride.
I'm not sure why people are choosing the Liberty, it sure is a goofy mickey mouse looking thing and has no room.