"You may use a regular unleaded gasoline with a rating from 87 to 90, this will slightly reduce performance"
When I read that, I am getting the idea that the Protege requires premium but will run fine on regular with reduced performance (just like any car that requires premium). If it was supposed to run on regular, why the need for the verbage "slightly reduced performance"? Are there gasolines that have lower octane than 87 CLC?
The Low-Down on High Octane Gasoline Are you tempted to buy a high octane gasoline for your car because you want to improve its performance? If so, take note: the recommended gasoline for most cars is regular octane. In fact, in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner?s manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won?t make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner?s manual. The only time you might need to switch to a higher octane level is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars. Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher octane gasoline is a waste of money, too. Premium gas costs 15 to 20 cents per gallon more than regular. That can add up to $100 or more a year in extra costs. Studies indicate that altogether, drivers may be spending hundreds of millions of dollars each year for higher octane gas than they need. What are octane ratings? Octane ratings measure a gasoline?s ability to resist engine knock, a rattling or pinging sound that results from premature ignition of the compressed fuel-air mixture in one or more cylinders. Most gas stations offer three octane grades: regular (usually 87 octane), mid-grade (usually 89 octane) and premium (usually 92 or 93). The ratings must be posted on bright yellow stickers on each gasoline pump. What?s the right octane level for your car? Check your owner?s manual to determine the right octane level for your car. Regular octane is recommended for most cars. However, some cars with high compression engines, like sports cars and certain luxury cars, need mid-grade or premium gasoline to prevent knock. How can you tell if you?re using the right octane level? Listen to your car?s engine. If it doesn?t knock when you use the recommended octane, you?re using the right grade of gasoline. Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better? As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car?s engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car. Should you ever switch to a higher octane gasoline? A few car engines may knock or ping ? even if you use the recommended octane. If this happens, try switching to the next highest octane grade. In many cases, switching to the mid-grade or premium-grade gasoline will eliminate the knock. If the knocking or pinging continues after one or two fill-ups, you may need a tune-up or some other repair. After that work is done, go back to the lowest octane grade at which your engine runs without knocking. Is knocking harmful? Occasional light knocking or pinging won?t harm your engine, and doesn?t indicate a need for higher octane. But don?t ignore severe knocking. A heavy or persistent knock can lead to engine damage. Is all "premium" or "regular" gasoline the same? The octane rating of gasoline marked "premium" or "regular" is not consistent across the country. One state may require a minimum octane rating of 92 for all premium gasoline, while another may allow 90 octane to be called premium. To make sure you know what you?re buying, check the octane rating on the yellow sticker on the gas pump instead of relying on the name "premium" or "regular." For More Information The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit www.ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, identity theft and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
That doesn't address my question. I know that you don't need to use premium with cars that recommend regular. My question regards this statement found in the owner's manual:
"You may use a regular unleaded gasoline with a rating from 87 to 90, this will slightly reduce performance"
If the car is designed to run on regular, there should be NO reduction in performance when using it.
I can't recall what is in my owner's manual. That statement that I quoted was posted by somebody else who said it came from their owner's manual. I don't believe that statement is in my owner's manual, but it shouldn't matter because all 2001-2003 2.0L Proteges should have the same requirements. I always thought it required regular, but that statement completely confuses things.
Jake Sweeney had one in their showroom. They kicked out the bright yellow 6s to put it in. Nice wheels. Not sure of the two-tone steering wheel though. I'll have to check it out the next time I'm there when they're open (I only stopped by while running errands in the neighborhood...they close on Sundays), if it's still there. I couldn't make out the sticker from the outside window.
There is no discrepancy. You're just misreading things. Let's look at the manual again.
FACTS:
The manual states ...
"Your Mazda will perform best with regular unleaded fuel having a research octane number (antiknock index) of at least 91 [(R+M)/2 method, 87}."
The manual then goes on to say that using 87 to 90 will reduce performance.
RESEARCH:
Note the quoted paragraph again. They are saying the RESEARCH OCTANE NUMBER should be at least 91. In the next paragraph they say anything below that number (87 to 90) will reduce performance.
Now note that the manual equates the 91 Research Octane Number with 87 using the R+M/2 method.
Hey, the R+M/2 method is what we use here in the U.S.
CONCLUSION:
So what it's saying is, don't use anything BELOW a Research Octane Number of 91, which is the same as an R+M/2 number of 87.
HINT:
You guys need to remember your apples and oranges here.
So there ARE gasolines that have a lower octane than 87 R+M/2. Why didn't anyone say that in the first place....and why does Mazda even have the different octane measurements in their owner's manuals if North America uses the R+M/2 method?
Just wondering. I traded mine after 8 months and 20K miles. Looks like I wouldn't have really made any more than I did on it if I had kept it longer (I got $11,500 for it, but Carmax offered me $9500 for it due to the fact that it was in an accident 2 weeks after I bought it).
But also, I had the side air bags, ABS, sunroof, and pretty much everything available. That might have made a difference.
85 available here. "High" altitude. Air is less dense, fuel doesn't burn as vigorously (resulting in a loss of power - assuming a naturally aspirated engine), less risk of knock, less octane required.
It was wonderful driving a turbo when going up Old Fort Mountain in NC this past summer. No power loss at all with the AC on in 90 degree weather. Went all the way up in 5th gear, maintained 65mph the whole way.
I'm looking at buying a used 94 Protege DX with automatic tranny and AC. So far, everything seems OK; all that I can see/hear/feel is cosmetic dings and scratches on the outside. Are there any known issues with this vintage of Protege? My old GLC and '87 323 served me well, and I'm hoping this one will also. Thanks.
- turbo engine - high compression ratio engine - early advance in sparkplugs the ignition - engine having significant carbon buildup - at low altitude (low air pressure and low oxygen contain) - at high air temperature (summer in Texas) - higher engine load (going up hill with passengers, AC on, etc...)
Mine was loaded as well. ABS, Side Air-Bags, Moonroof, etc. Not to mention all of the extras I added: Kenwood Speakers, strut brace, cargo net, splash guards, and so on. I think the used car market is just so saturated right now, it is hard to get a good deal for a used car. That 0% financing is a double edged sword. It is definitely a buyer's market.
Hi everyone - me and my '03 Pro es are new to this board.
dsm6 - do you use 85 octane all the time in your Pro? I also live in CO, and have used 85 in our other vehicles for years, but I'm nervous about using it in my new baby. As others on this board have mentioned, the owner's manual is vague about it.
Also, where did you buy yours, and where do you get it serviced? I got mine at Sill-Terhar in Broomfield. No service done yet, as the odometer is ~1600.
The Mazdaspeed Protege out on the lot was indeed Black Mica. I took a look at it when I went to pick up Zoomster yesterday. Then I walked into the showroom and SURPRISE! A gawd-awful "Spicy Orange" one was in there.
Man, the car looks great except for one thing -- those seats. The covers, specifically. There's a shiny silver inlay in them that feels of vinyl. And it's metallic looking! Do they really think after a year or two of sliding in and out wearing jeans, corduroys, etc., that that shiny silver paint (or whatever it is) will not start to rub and go dull in places? C'mon, does our upholstery really need to look like it's made out of METAL???!!!
Can't wait for the Mazda3, which with the 2.3-liter four that's currently in the 6i (an all-Mazda engine, btw), will make almost the same HP as the Mazdaspeed without the extra cost and maintenance of a turbocharger!
Meade
P.S. Zoomlady: A big warm welcome from the Capital of the Confederacy, ma'am!!!
I did a loop around Minneapolis, all highway, all 5th gear, never exceeded 70 mph and a very light throttle foot. I was trying real hard for good gas mileage. Did a little over 60 miles. I needed to check my highway mileage after getting that 19 mpg. My car is OK!! 39 mpg!!!!
Meade---The civil war is over. We won. Be nice, or we'll burn Atlanta again.
You have insulted mah honuh, suh! Ah demayand Satisfacshun!!!
;-)
Good to hear about your gas mileage. That's great; I don't think I've ever exceeded 34 or 35 mpg. But I tend to DRIVE my car too, if you know what I mean.
Approaching the 50,000-mile-plus frontier this morning; will probably be there this time next week. Larry, have you beat me to it already?
Meade
P.S. Wut is this "Civil Wah" you're referrin' ta? Do ya mean thuh War of Northun' Aggresshun? An' do whatevah ya want with Etlanna -- they'z airpoat iz a livin' hell, ah tell ya!
Congrats on the Pro. I used 87 Octane on my 02 Pro (past tense - I no longer have it), as I believe is suggested in the owners manual. I never tried 85, but you might ask one of the friendly mechanics at Sil-Terhar about it. I emailed Mazda NA to ask them about this very issue - should I use 85 due to altitude, or stick with the recommended 87. They said stick with 87.
Sil-Terhar seems like as good a place as any. I've never purchased from them, or had them do any service, so I couldn't say for sure. I've spoken with a number of their sales staff, though. How was your experience with them? I purchased my Pro from Spradley-Barr in Ft. Collins. Got a good deal on one that was sitting on the lot, so I went with them.
I do my own service, so I can't really help with a recommendation. Sorry.
Can someone tell me what we normally measure is (i) the intrinsic tire pressure or (ii) the difference between the tire pressure and the atmospheric pressure?
Hummm, are you sure about the definition of psi? I though it's defined as a gravitational force of 1 lb applying on a surface of 1 square inches. btw, 1 atmospheric = 14.696 psi.
First it was vegetables. Then "white font" posts. Next came off-topic posts. Then it was brakes. Followed by the weather. Now it's physics! What's next?
Zoomster came through his pre-warranty-expiration visit with shining colors. Here's what I had done:
Air conditioner -- Yeah, I know it's January. But back in August you may remember I got a case of the stinkies, which I think I may have brought on myself by blasting the a/c all the way in to work in the morning and then parking in a stuffy underground parking deck, allowing the system to sweat all day. Well, the service guy did the spray disinfectant thing at that point, but told me to bring the car back one day I could leave it all day, so he could actually pull the main air handler unit out and physically clean it. Never got around to it until now, so he did it yesterday. Under warranty of course!
Had 'em lube all locks, INCLUDING THE TRUNK Larry!
Complained about the cig lighter not staying in when pushed. I'd been told all that was needed was to bend the clips inside the socket a little more, but in good 'ol Mazda Service fashion, they up and replaced the entire lighter and socket assembly! Zoomster gots a shiny new puffer!
I also spoke with my service writer about the owner's manual's claim that the timing belt doesn't need to be replaced until 105,000 miles. I asked if I should trust it, and he said many cars' timing belts are now good for 90,000 to 105,000 miles. He himself has an Accord whose timing belt was replaced at 105K. He said the warranty wouldn't cover it if it did break, but recommended to go ahead and go for 105K -- with the recommended inspections at 60K and 90K -- because, after all, if it does happen to break, the 1.8 engine is a non-interference engine, and all it'll do is stop the car. No damage to the valves or anything else.
Since most mechanical and electric tire pressure gauges I've used to date reference atmospheric pressure. The mechanical ones were open to the atmosphere. My digital ones require that I "zero" them before taking a measurement.
Thanks. Unless someone will provide a more convincing argument for the contrary, I'll take your words for it.
Bruno
PS: for those who are wonder why I ask such question, I'm computing the weight of the air inside the tires. Not that's really matter for a car, but it's definitively not a negligible factor for a bike for example.
>>>the above argument about "changing gas only when pinging" becomes seriously outdated as most of the modern engines are equipped with the knock sensor. <<<<
My '99 ES ain't got that freaking knock sensor. How about that?
seriously ... If wheels and tires are so sensitive to proper balancing, then why does your car not shimmy and shake all over the place when you've got a good-sized rock imbedded in your tire treads?
I sometimes speculate on this when I'm prying a large pebble out of my tires on car wash day.
Good thing you're not an english major either...otherwise you might get an imbalance and fall over whilst trying to get into your Protege. :P BTW, don't forget that you're still 3% more than me.
My DX was shaking like crazy one time when I was driving to work. So bad, in fact, that I stopped at the dealer on the way. Turns out ice froze inside the wheel covers (the car sat in the snow for 2 days and wasn't driven). They melted the ice out, and everything was fine from there on out.
Comments
When I read that, I am getting the idea that the Protege requires premium but will run fine on regular with reduced performance (just like any car that requires premium). If it was supposed to run on regular, why the need for the verbage "slightly reduced performance"? Are there gasolines that have lower octane than 87 CLC?
Are you tempted to buy a high octane gasoline for your car because you want to improve its performance? If so, take note: the recommended gasoline for most cars is regular octane. In fact, in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner?s manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won?t make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner?s manual.
The only time you might need to switch to a higher octane level is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars.
Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher octane gasoline is a waste of money, too. Premium gas costs 15 to 20 cents per gallon more than regular. That can add up to $100 or more a year in extra costs. Studies indicate that altogether, drivers may be spending hundreds of millions of dollars each year for higher octane gas than they need.
What are octane ratings?
Octane ratings measure a gasoline?s ability to resist engine knock, a rattling or pinging sound that results from premature ignition of the compressed fuel-air mixture in one or more cylinders. Most gas stations offer three octane grades: regular (usually 87 octane), mid-grade (usually 89 octane) and premium (usually 92 or 93). The ratings must be posted on bright yellow stickers on each gasoline pump.
What?s the right octane level for your car?
Check your owner?s manual to determine the right octane level for your car. Regular octane is recommended for most cars. However, some cars with high compression engines, like sports cars and certain luxury cars, need mid-grade or premium gasoline to prevent knock.
How can you tell if you?re using the right octane level?
Listen to your car?s engine. If it doesn?t knock when you use the recommended octane, you?re using the right grade of gasoline.
Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better?
As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car?s engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.
Should you ever switch to a higher octane gasoline?
A few car engines may knock or ping ? even if you use the recommended octane. If this happens, try switching to the next highest octane grade. In many cases, switching to the mid-grade or premium-grade gasoline will eliminate the knock. If the knocking or pinging continues after one or two fill-ups, you may need a tune-up or some other repair. After that work is done, go back to the lowest octane grade at which your engine runs without knocking.
Is knocking harmful?
Occasional light knocking or pinging won?t harm your engine, and doesn?t indicate a need for higher octane. But don?t ignore severe knocking. A heavy or persistent knock can lead to engine damage.
Is all "premium" or "regular" gasoline the same?
The octane rating of gasoline marked "premium" or "regular" is not consistent across the country. One state may require a minimum octane rating of 92 for all premium gasoline, while another may allow 90 octane to be called premium. To make sure you know what you?re buying, check the octane rating on the yellow sticker on the gas pump instead of relying on the name "premium" or "regular."
For More Information
The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit www.ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, identity theft and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm
"You may use a regular unleaded gasoline with a rating from 87 to 90, this will slightly reduce performance"
If the car is designed to run on regular, there should be NO reduction in performance when using it.
FACTS:
The manual states ...
"Your Mazda will perform best with regular unleaded fuel having a research octane number (antiknock index) of at least 91 [(R+M)/2 method, 87}."
The manual then goes on to say that using 87 to 90 will reduce performance.
RESEARCH:
Note the quoted paragraph again. They are saying the RESEARCH OCTANE NUMBER should be at least 91. In the next paragraph they say anything below that number (87 to 90) will reduce performance.
Now note that the manual equates the 91 Research Octane Number with 87 using the R+M/2 method.
Hey, the R+M/2 method is what we use here in the U.S.
CONCLUSION:
So what it's saying is, don't use anything BELOW a Research Octane Number of 91, which is the same as an R+M/2 number of 87.
HINT:
You guys need to remember your apples and oranges here.
Meade
My 2001 ES had about 19,700 miles at time of sale. Why do you ask?
But also, I had the side air bags, ABS, sunroof, and pretty much everything available. That might have made a difference.
Erik
- turbo engine
- high compression ratio engine
- early advance in sparkplugs the ignition
- engine having significant carbon buildup
- at low altitude (low air pressure and low oxygen contain)
- at high air temperature (summer in Texas)
- higher engine load (going up hill with passengers, AC on, etc...)
Bruno
dsm6 - do you use 85 octane all the time in your Pro? I also live in CO, and have used 85 in our other vehicles for years, but I'm nervous about using it in my new baby. As others on this board have mentioned, the owner's manual is vague about it.
Also, where did you buy yours, and where do you get it serviced? I got mine at Sill-Terhar in Broomfield. No service done yet, as the odometer is ~1600.
The Mazdaspeed Protege out on the lot was indeed Black Mica. I took a look at it when I went to pick up Zoomster yesterday. Then I walked into the showroom and SURPRISE! A gawd-awful "Spicy Orange" one was in there.
Man, the car looks great except for one thing -- those seats. The covers, specifically. There's a shiny silver inlay in them that feels of vinyl. And it's metallic looking! Do they really think after a year or two of sliding in and out wearing jeans, corduroys, etc., that that shiny silver paint (or whatever it is) will not start to rub and go dull in places? C'mon, does our upholstery really need to look like it's made out of METAL???!!!
Can't wait for the Mazda3, which with the 2.3-liter four that's currently in the 6i (an all-Mazda engine, btw), will make almost the same HP as the Mazdaspeed without the extra cost and maintenance of a turbocharger!
Meade
P.S. Zoomlady: A big warm welcome from the Capital of the Confederacy, ma'am!!!
Meade---The civil war is over. We won. Be nice, or we'll burn Atlanta again.
;-)
Good to hear about your gas mileage. That's great; I don't think I've ever exceeded 34 or 35 mpg. But I tend to DRIVE my car too, if you know what I mean.
Approaching the 50,000-mile-plus frontier this morning; will probably be there this time next week. Larry, have you beat me to it already?
Meade
P.S. Wut is this "Civil Wah" you're referrin' ta? Do ya mean thuh War of Northun' Aggresshun? An' do whatevah ya want with Etlanna -- they'z airpoat iz a livin' hell, ah tell ya!
Sil-Terhar seems like as good a place as any. I've never purchased from them, or had them do any service, so I couldn't say for sure. I've spoken with a number of their sales staff, though. How was your experience with them? I purchased my Pro from Spradley-Barr in Ft. Collins. Got a good deal on one that was sitting on the lot, so I went with them.
I do my own service, so I can't really help with a recommendation. Sorry.
(i) the intrinsic tire pressure or
(ii) the difference between the tire pressure and the atmospheric pressure?
Thank you
Bruno
;-)
Meade
Bruno
Then "white font" posts.
Next came off-topic posts.
Then it was brakes.
Followed by the weather.
Now it's physics!
What's next?
Meade
Air conditioner -- Yeah, I know it's January. But back in August you may remember I got a case of the stinkies, which I think I may have brought on myself by blasting the a/c all the way in to work in the morning and then parking in a stuffy underground parking deck, allowing the system to sweat all day. Well, the service guy did the spray disinfectant thing at that point, but told me to bring the car back one day I could leave it all day, so he could actually pull the main air handler unit out and physically clean it. Never got around to it until now, so he did it yesterday. Under warranty of course!
Had 'em lube all locks, INCLUDING THE TRUNK Larry!
Complained about the cig lighter not staying in when pushed. I'd been told all that was needed was to bend the clips inside the socket a little more, but in good 'ol Mazda Service fashion, they up and replaced the entire lighter and socket assembly! Zoomster gots a shiny new puffer!
I also spoke with my service writer about the owner's manual's claim that the timing belt doesn't need to be replaced until 105,000 miles. I asked if I should trust it, and he said many cars' timing belts are now good for 90,000 to 105,000 miles. He himself has an Accord whose timing belt was replaced at 105K. He said the warranty wouldn't cover it if it did break, but recommended to go ahead and go for 105K -- with the recommended inspections at 60K and 90K -- because, after all, if it does happen to break, the 1.8 engine is a non-interference engine, and all it'll do is stop the car. No damage to the valves or anything else.
So lessee how long this baby will go.
49,476 (yeah, I looked, Dale!) and counting ...
Meade
Why is this so important?
Meade
Bruno
PS: for those who are wonder why I ask such question, I'm computing the weight of the air inside the tires. Not that's really matter for a car, but it's definitively not a negligible factor for a bike for example.
Meade
My '99 ES ain't got that freaking knock sensor.
How about that?
In any case, even if you have that knock sensor and it pings, try a higher octane if you don't want that knock sensor fixed at "DEALER" prices.
there is a reason i'm not a physics major ;-)
carry on all...
I sometimes speculate on this when I'm prying a large pebble out of my tires on car wash day.
Anybody got any thoughts on this?
Meade
It's the ticking that bugs me.
:P
BTW, don't forget that you're still 3% more than me.
as Malt said, typical rock (2-3 g/cc) is about 4-6 time lighter than lead (11.4 g/cc).
Bruno