For what it's worth, before I bought my BMW I was warned about the 'soft' water-based paint by a friend who owns one. I've got lots of stone chips in my paint too, a lot more than I ever had on my 97 Acura.
Sso, I don't think that it's just a Honda specific thing...it's the price we pay for the world we want to live in
Anyhow be glad you don't own one of those Chryslers or older GM product where the paint just peels off.. there's an example of each of those in our company's parking lot that I see every day. Sheets of paint missing....
I can attest to the fact that there is a problem with the V-6 transmissions. I should know, I had two of them replaced in my former Accord.
It usually starts out as a "clunk" sounding in reverse then gradually gets worse. Then you start noticing minor hesitation between gears when accelerating. Eventually this minor hesitation develops in major hesitation. Then finally, your transmission ceases to operate.
The dealership that replaced both of my transmissions does this type of work on the V-6 often. It is not limited to any specific year and it has occurred in all V-6 models from 1998 on!
Well, my problem with my V-6 Accord was alleviated when I traded mine in after the second transmission was replaced.
First, let me say that I have owned a Camry since the mid 80's and have always had good luck with them. Right now I own a 2000 Camry and a 2001 Honda Accord (4 cylinder). I still like the Camry much better and the reason is that it's a lot quieter on the road and rides better to me. I know the Accord is supposed to be a good car but there are several things on it that really annoy me. First, when driving down the interstate with the cruise control set I can feel the AC cutting on and off (not so on the Camry). Even though the Accord is suppose to have more horsepower I firmly believe the Camry (4 cylinder also) will accelerate faster than the Accord. I just found out yesterday that the transmission has to be replaced...it started making a funny noise while I was on vacation in the front and the technician said it was the transmission (the first time I took it in a technician said it a tire even though the noise didn't move when the tires were rotated). He then stated that "You're not the first on with this problem" like it has happened quiet a bit.
I have contended since I started this topic that there was a flaw in Honda's transmission that was produced from 1998 to present. The service writer at my dealership has indicated that this problem has been continuous.
It has been over 4 years and this problem is still present. Honda needs to address this problem on its new 2003 Accord if it hasn't already done so.
I took this right out of the Car Connection review of the new 2003 Honda Accord:
The V-6 also gets new transmissions with all sedans.
I personally feel Honda is telling us something regarding the 6th Generation Accord's transmission. I can paraphrase it in simple terms---"There were problems and now they are corrected".
What is every ones opinion? I would especially like to hear from isellhondas!
It is a shame that Honda hasn't shared this information with its customers. Indirectly, you can find the information at the NHSTA website in large numbers.
..as it is being developed in Japan newly for this model year. It is a different design from any existing models, basically smaller in body than any other 5speed models. we are building mass production units already at our plant in Russells Point, Ohio. I am a Quality Control tech there.
Can you elaborate how the new transmission will be different than the old transmission? In addition, what quality issues were encountered with the 6th Generation transmission?
The new transmission is probably the one that will solve all the woes of the current model. Honda had a stellar reputation regarding their fine cars until 1998.
Overall, you look back at a Honda 10 years ago and look at the 2002 Accord and you will notice suttle changes as cost cutting measures. The bottom line is important to Honda America.
The one change that is highly noticeable is the paint issue. I for one am not happy about this cost cutting move.
Do I remember you saying that Honda replaced your first tranny, and maybe even your second, for free, even out of warranty? I'm curious how you did this b/c someone I know has a '98 Civic with 45K that the dealer says needs a new tranny, but Honda is unwilling to work with her.
I have a 2001 Honda Accord EX. I took the car in for its 30k preventive 6/2002 and the mechanic informed me I was leaking tranmission fluid. I took the car into Honda. They mentioned something about a gasket, a leak and replacing the transmission.
When the transmission was replaced the car drove horribly. Couldn't climb hills, didn't shift well. Felt like the engine and transmission from my old 1999 Mazda Protege was in the vehicle. I took the car back to Honda 8/5/2002 and they mentioned something about internal stuff failing and needing a new transmission.
This tranmission runs great, it climbs hills well, changes without a hitch, and the car drives like when I drove it off the lot, like a dream.
Question: What would cause the transmission to fail twice? Should I be alarmed? I'm thinking that the something else major may go in the car, and my warranty is almost up. Why doesn't Honda warrant their drivetrain for 50k like most other manufactures?
I hesitate to give my opinion here because the Honda bashers and those who have had problems will jump on me, call me names etc...
But I don't care..I'm thick skinned!
I still maintain that these transmission problems are few and far between. Of course, there will always be transmissions that act up in any car. We have to remember that these forums will attract the horror stories and tales of woe.
And, yes, the 2003 Accords will have a different transmission that will be a five speed automatic. I don't think this was because of "problems" but is, instead, simply an improvement. I hear it'll be silky smooth.
Honda transmissions have always had a firm shift. Now, for me, I always thought this was a good and not a bad thing from my old street racing days.
Others disagree and I think this may be one of the reasons Honda is changing the transmission.
Hondas have always been know for more road noise than, say a Camry. I understand that the 2003's will be MUCH quieter. We shall see.
I've lost a few sales to Camry because of the softer ride. This is something that I hope does NOT change since a lot of us think the Camry is has mushy handling compared to the Accords.
I think Honda switching to the 5-speed automatic from a 4-speed automatic is just natural progression-an advance in technology so to say. People who say Honda merely switched to a 5-speed automatic because the 4-speed automatic had problems need to take a step back and think about what they are saying. Yes, I know the problems associated with the V6 automatic tranny's(mine doesn't have any problems though), but realistically, Honda wasn't going to keep the same 4-speed automatic from the 2002 Accord V6 even if it was bulletproof. I mean come on, think for a bit. THe 2003 Accord has a 20% improvement in horsepower and with that increase, gas mileage would probably decrease. Designing a new transmission to begin with was a must with the 2003 V6. And of course, I'm sure another reason they added a gear was to improve gas mileage.
Check back on my previous posts in this forum. It relates how I had two transmissions replaced at Honda's expense. You can also read where I traded in my Accord V-6 for a Toyota Solara after the second transmission was replaced.
I would never buy any car with a 3year/36K power train warranty ever again. Honda needs to be competitive in this field with the likes of Toyota and VW.
rbruehl has told, and retold his/her sad story of their transmission woes countless times in this forum even though the Honda was long ago traded for a Toyota.
You would think it would be time to let this go but I guess this has become a crusade of sorts...so be it.
I don't doubt the story at all but maintain this was pretty unusual.
#1 of 2 2001 Honda Accord EX Transmission went out twice!! by xhevoice Aug 10, 2002 (04:29 pm) I have a 2001 Honda Accord EX. I took the car in for its 30k preventive 6/2002 and the mechanic informed me I was leaking transmission fluid. I took the car into Honda. They mentioned something about a gasket, a leak and replacing the transmission.
When the transmission was replaced the car drove horribly. Couldn't climb hills, didn't shift well. Felt like the engine and transmission from my old 1999 Mazda Protege was in the vehicle. I took the car back to Honda 8/5/2002 and they mentioned something about internal stuff failing and needing a new transmission.
This transmission runs great, it climbs hills well, changes without a hitch, and the car drives like when I drove it off the lot, like a dream.
Question: What would cause the transmission to fail twice? Should I be alarmed? I'm thinking that the something else major may go in the car, and my warranty is almost up. Why doesn't Honda warrant their drive train for 50k like most other manufactures?
Thanks for your input. XheVoice
I am not the only one with this problem isellhondas. Thought all of you would be interested in this post.
The man sells Hondas for a living so you can take his comments accordingly. The dealership that I have my Accord serviced at has noted transmission problems in the 6th generation Accords are more prevalent than in previous generations.
I think everyone can make their own conclusions regarding this issue.
Yes, you had a Honda with a bad tranny, so did a few others.....
Fact #1: Honda sells over 400K of the Accord a year. That's over 2,000,000 Accords over the 5 year run of the 6th Gen. Accord. That's a lot of sales year in and out for a car with such a bad tranny problem, woudln't you say?
Fact # 2: Honda Accord has been in the top 2 of auto sales for every year since 1989. Do all these buyers and repeat buyers come back due to the fact that the Accord is unreliable and has a bad tranny that will often fail?
Fact # 3: Honda Accord has a very high resell value, as can be verified with Edmund's True Cost to Own figures. Is the bad tranny problem the Accord supposedly has the reason why it's resale is so much higher compared to other top sellers such as the Taurus?
Fact # 4: The Accord is a car that is made by man & machine. It is not perfect, nor are all examples of it perfect. Nor is any other car. Anything man made will have problems, some more than others. If you believe that the Accord has problems, feel free to check out other manufacturers and their cars. There is a reason why the Accord is a top seller every year for such a long time.
Fact # 5: The vast majority of these Accord owners DO NOT have tranny problems!!! Half a dozen or so different people (yourself included) that have posted here with a problem does not make bad tranny epidemic at Honda.
Fact # 6: The majority of people who post to a consumer site (like this one) will post about questions/problems. They do not typically post about not having problems. This will amplify a small amount of people that had legitimate problems (like you did) into looking like a larger problem.
Rbruehl, you had a bad experience, all of us accept that, as should you. While we can appreciate your problems, the facts DO NOT SUPPORT that what you experienced is the norm for Honda Accords.....period!
Rbruehal did make one valid point, however. Honda's competitors DO have a longer powertrain warranty. Both Toyota and Nissan have 5 year/60K miles on their powertrain. Even VW has 4/50K. (Down from 10/100 or 5/50 if sold)
Since Honda's are so reliable, it wouldn't cost them anything in claims to provide the longer warranty, so why don't they? (I'm not bashing, I own an '00 Accord EXV6. If *I* have tranny problems, then I'll start bashing. )
If more reviews pointed out the difference in warranty, I bet it would get changed fairly quickly. Many reviews about VW's commented about the 2/24k warranty, and that got changed.
Fact #7: I was smart enough to unload a two time loser that sat in the shop for a total of 7 days.
Like I said, you get burned twice---its time for a change and I made mine.
Fact #8--Honda needs to address their power train warranty as it favors Honda and not the customer. If they are so reliable, why don't they make a 5 year/ 60K warranty standard. I will tell you why, they are not as reliable as you tend to believe.
It is strange that no one commented on the other post that I found regarding the failure of two transmissions. I guess it was to hard for anyone to believe right?
I sold my 2001 Honda Accord to my parents back in November. About a month ago they started hearing a whining noise coming from the transmission. The car was brought to the first Honda dealership and they said it might be the tires or the transmission. They informed my parents to run the car for another 1000 miles and see if the sound went away. Well, the sound didn't go away and the Accord now sits in another Honda dealership in Albany, NY waiting for the rebuilt transmission to arrive and be put in the car. The service advisor said the transient bearing was going bad in the tranny and they would put a rebuilt tranny in the car. The car has only 14k on it and my senior citizen parents are extremely disappointed in there Honda. I really believe from reading different things on the internet that there is a problem with these transmissions. The service advisor said it was the second one in a week that they had to replace the tranny in (2001 Accord). My parents are debating on whether or not to keep the car after this problem. Any suggestions!!(4 cylinder engine)!!!
Rbruehl, I was the one with the Civic tranny problem in Beachnut's posting. I want to see your stories about the two transmission replacements you had but couldn't find them among 1400 postings - do you remember the posting numbers?
My Civic has been jerking at low miles for several months. The problem is well documented on the NHTSA database and Honda's TSB. After going back and forth to the dealership three times and spending $300, I may have to replace the tranny and Honda is playing hardball with me because it's after warranty. I'm curious to know how you got them to pay for your repairs. I'm just so annoyed at Honda that I swear I'll never buy a Honda ever again.
Fact #7 and #8 are reinforced by what actually happened. Facts #1 thru #6 lack validity since no sources are credited outside of "hear say".
Let's face it, Honda had a problem and I hope they corrected with the new 2003 transmission.
tinkywinky--I suggest you go through all 1400 plus topics to check rbruehl's postings. He would have to do the same to provide you with the post numbers. If that is to long to do, I suggest contacting isellhondas since he knows the incident inside and out and comments on it all the time. Also, you probably could contact rbruehl directly and get the facts first hand.
Let me get this straight: when rbruehl speaks on an anonymous public bulletin board, it's fact, it "actually happened". Someone else speaks, it's "hear say". Right......thanks for that brilliant insight there lugwrench!! That's right, Honda selling all those Accords....that's just "hear say".....
So if rbruehl anonymously comes out and says he's Elvis that is fact also????? How do we know that rbruehl or lugwrench are not working for the PR department at Toyota and releasing false data about their biggest competitor? Maybe lugwrench was on the grassy knoll as well....
The point is....we don't know, so we have to use common sense and logic when we read all these things out here, such as I tried to present in Facts #1 thru #6. Honda has a perennial bestseller with the Accord for a reason, and making unreliable cars is NOT that reason. If it were, the same fate would have happened to them as has happened to the Olds Cutlass, Buick Regal, Ford Taurus, etc. All were #1 sellers, all failed to hold that ranking due to reliabiliy/durability issues. The cream of the crop of the middle class cars are the Accord and the Camry, and their continued high sales are the results of their reliability & overall great value. If those things weren't true and the Accords really were as troubleprone as rbruehl and lugwrench make it out to be, the Accord ( or the Camry for that matter) would hold those high sales figures for long....period.
I give up.....common sense and logical thinking obviously does not seem to apply here anymore, and that's the REAL fact!!!! You guys can go ahead and believe what you want to believe......
Honda may have some transmission problems Toyota may have some sludge problems Ford has certainly had a variety of problems Chryslers haven't been known for stellar quality Volkswagens aren't so great either The Koreans are unproven Who does that leave? Other companies with problems of their own.
It's a case of choose your poison and take your chances.
Having said that, I think that statistics are still on the side of Honda and Toyota. Having some problems is still better than having a lot of problems.
While no car is perfect, I don't think that anyone can buy any car line with a realistic (note I said realistic) expectation of having zero problems.
I've been following this thread for a long time now, and compared to other threads, the Honda problems - even in the older cars with high milage - generally seem to be less than some other makes.
While this is no comfort to someone who had to have two transmissions replaced, the fact remains that we all have to buy cars sooner or later, and when we do, we have to put our money down and place our bets.
To paraphrase Daymon Runyon, "A Honda ain't always reliable, but that's the way to bet".
Now let's get back to discussing specific problems that people encounter, and how to fix them, and stop all this about how widespread those problems may or may not be.
I started this forum as a result of all the information I read at various Honda forums. One thing in common in all forums is that there were many transmission problem encountered by the respective posters.
Since American Honda doesn't share its defects, there is no way of tracking unless it is from someone posting or the NHSTA. I for one have talked to service technicians that have indicated there was a remarkable difference regarding transmission failure rate between the 5th and 6th generation Accords. In simple layman's terms, the service technicians work on a heck of a lot more 6th generation Accords with failed transmissions than the 5th generation.
Honda's transmissions in the 6th generation Accords are not as reliable as previous generations.
Honda owners in general seem to be very defensive when confronting posts that list a continuous series of defects. In general, they don't want to accept it or believe that it actually happens.
I personally think that the new transmission that Honda will be putting into the 2003 Accord will solve the problem.
nonono, i do believe it actually happened alright. i believe that many many 6th generation transmission failed since many many people posted about it, i'm not being defensive cuz i'm an accord owner or i don't want to believe the fact, i'm defensive cuz i don't see the point, i've read a lot of transmission failure posts even before i bought my 02, so what i did? i bought my car and grabbed an extended warranty with it. i like the car that's why i bought it, simple enough. 19k miles so far and everything's perfect, but who knows when it's gonna fail, eh? good for me then cuz i won't have to pay for it.
You purchased the Honda extended warranty for over $1000.00 I assume so you can have peace of mind regarding your purchase.
This is exactly the point people have been making here regarding Hondas 3 year 36K power train warranty. Instead of Honda giving you a 5 year 50K warranty like many other manufacturers, they soak you an extra $1000.00 because their warranty ends at 36K on the power train. This is to give the customer peace of mind for an extra grand.
More and more people are buying the Honda Extended Warranty for peace of mind? It sounds more like knowing something is going to happen to their car and they want to be covered.
People still feel that Hondas are worth buying, even if the actual 'out-the-door' price with extended warranty is $1,000 dollars more than the competitors who offer a longer warranty, as the Hondas continue to sell quite well.
Essentially, you are arguing that you think that Honda should raise the price of the car $1,000 an d force all buyers to take the option of the extended warranty whether they feel that they need it or not. However,some will want it and some don't feel they need it.
The whole warranty question is another variation in the theme of "what's peace of mind worth to you?"
Some people argue that, with their lower intial selling prices, GM cars are better deals than Hondas because - even if you have to pay to fix some problems - they are less expensive than Japanese cars. If you don't have to pay to fix anything on on the particular one that you buy then they can come out to be considerably cheaper to operate. The difference is that with a Japanese car the expenses are predictable as they are part of the car payment and maintence schedule and on an American car they can pop up unpredictably.
Honda has one of the worst power train warranties in the business. If they make such a reliable automobile, why don't they go to the 5 year 60K power train warranty like Nissan, Toyota etc.?
I conclude it it is all a marketing ploy on Honda's part to entice you to buy the extended warranty.
No one can say for sure why Honda only offers a 3/36K power train warranty. To sell extended warranties? Possibly. Because offering a 5/60K would be too expensive for them? Maybe. One thing is for sure, if they are able to sell 400,000/year with a 3/36K standard powertrain warranty, then the question why they do not offer a 5/60K becomes clear. Hey, I wish Honda offered a better powertrain warranty, but until the general public feels the same way nothing is going to change.
The price of these wonderful warranties are INCLUDED in the prices we pay!!
It's marketing, pure and simple!
Personally, I would be happy to see Honda raise the price of their cars a bit and make the warranties longer. Most buyers would never notice the raise in pricing.
But then I've never been invited to a brainstorming session with their brass either.
isellhondas---Why don't you call Honda America up and ask if you can sit in one of their marketing meetings. Tell them you have the expertise to convey what a customer wants on a one on one level. Who knows, they may ask you to sit in!
We all know that any warranty offered is a component of the price of the car. Sometimes manufacturers offer longer warranties to gain market share, at the expense of margin. Iam sure Honda has weighed the cost - benefit of offering a longer warranty. Since they already sell 400,000/year, will they be able to gain market share by offering a longer warranty? Or, will they possibly lose sales to competitors that offer longer warranties? An interesting (well not that interesting) debate that Iam willing to bet the brass at Honda have already considered.
Well......the 2003 Accord 4Cyl transmission will be(is, actually..we have already built hundreds)a totally newly designed transmission that is radically different than any other model. The biggest change(a little known fact about Honda engines in the USA) is that the engine rotation changes directions, requiring the transmission to be redesigned for clockwise rotation. Until this model year the Accord L4 engine was of counter-clockwise rotation, different from the Accord V6 and all other Honda models built here except Civic, which will remain counter-clockwise, at least for now.
We have already built more than six hundred of these 5 speed Accord L4 transmissions, though I don't know any thing about how they will be distributed.
I know very little about car warranties, but this I suspect: Honda of America does not sell extended warranties-these are offered by a separate company and are sold as insurance policies against which claims are made against the underwriter.
Honda is not in the business of selling warranties.
Their base warranty offered was never intended to encourage nor discourage buyers from purchasing extended warranties. It was a reasonable time period of warranty coverage to cover defects in manufacturing and component parts.
Honda has also been known to offer out-of-warranty repair coverage on certain items, solely at their discretion.
I am not saying that Honda never has design or manufacturing problems which result in cronic problems with their cars. I know that such problems are very costly to Honda, so we are all working to eliminate that sort of thing.
I do believe that Honda would rather pay for your repair for a known issue than have you absorb the cost of repair and lose you as a repeat customer.
Part of the reason I continue to buy Hondas (still have all three Accords-'92,'94,'98) is because I want first-hand knowledge of how well our product is performing. I hope to own a 2003 Accord or newer so I can continue in that tradition.
Is it a 3 year warranty as well as with mileage in the kilometers? You also have daytime running lights on Accords up there don't you?
I look at it this way, Honda's powertrain warranty stinks in the USA. It should be 5 years and 60K. I had to buy the extended warranty through "HONDA CARE" which gives you up to 7 years and 100K with no deductible. It cost me $960.00 which I didn't want to part with. The finance manager told me "it is better to be safe than sorry".
Its late here in the Big Apple so I'll try to be as brief as possible.
In 1986, my mom looked at the Accord and put down a deposit for one. She changed her mind and got her deposit back. She ended up buying Accord's rival, the Camry.
Well 16 1/2 years and 221,900 miles later with no major problems its now time for my mom to buy a new car. Now I'm an adult trying to help my mom select her "perfect" new car. I also believe you take a chance on any brand but I know that Toyotas & Hondas are most reliable.
The 2003 Accord and 2003 Camry are both on my mom's list ( the Altima is a little too "crude",the Avalon is for "old" people , she is 64 , US cars have too many problems, the Mazda 6 - ? )
By the way I have noticed more 1986 Camrys on the road than 1986 Accords.
I agree with most of the other posters that indicate that Honda's 3 year powertrain warranty needs to be addressed.
Went with a friend who was looking at Nissan Altimas this past Saturday. One of the first things that came out of the salesman's mouth is that Nissan and he even mentioned Toyota have the best warranty and flatly stated that Honda has the worst. Then he talked about Nissan's 5 year powertrain warranty in detail.
By the way, the Nissan Altima looked good until I got inside the car. They could sure use some interior design lessons from Honda or Toyota. Also, don't sit in the back seat if you are over 6' tall. That sloping roof will hit your head.
I firmly believe Honda needs to address its powertrain warranty. Consumers are starting to wise up regarding what a manufacturer offers in warranties.
Sure would like to see a longer warranty period! Others are right, it gives you peace of mind. Net doctor where is the best place to check if there are consistent problems and Honda has lengthened the warranty to correct these types of problems?
Comments
Sso, I don't think that it's just a Honda specific thing...it's the price we pay for the world we want to live in
Anyhow be glad you don't own one of those Chryslers or older GM product where the paint just peels off.. there's an example of each of those in our company's parking lot that I see every day. Sheets of paint missing....
It usually starts out as a "clunk" sounding in reverse then gradually gets worse. Then you start noticing minor hesitation between gears when accelerating. Eventually this minor hesitation develops in major hesitation. Then finally, your transmission ceases to operate.
The dealership that replaced both of my transmissions does this type of work on the V-6 often. It is not limited to any specific year and it has occurred in all V-6 models from 1998 on!
Well, my problem with my V-6 Accord was alleviated when I traded mine in after the second transmission was replaced.
I know the Accord is supposed to be a good car but there are several things on it that really annoy me. First, when driving down the interstate with the cruise control set I can feel the AC cutting on and off (not so on the Camry). Even though the Accord is suppose to have more horsepower I firmly believe the Camry (4 cylinder also) will accelerate faster than the Accord. I just found out yesterday that the transmission has to be replaced...it started making a funny noise while I was on vacation in the front and the technician said it was the transmission (the first time I took it in a technician said it a tire even though the noise didn't move when the tires were rotated). He then stated that "You're not the first on with this problem" like it has happened quiet a bit.
It has been over 4 years and this problem is still present. Honda needs to address this problem on its new 2003 Accord if it hasn't already done so.
The V-6 also gets new transmissions with all sedans.
I personally feel Honda is telling us something regarding the 6th Generation Accord's transmission. I can paraphrase it in simple terms---"There were problems and now they are corrected".
What is every ones opinion? I would especially like to hear from isellhondas!
It is a shame that Honda hasn't shared this information with its customers. Indirectly, you can find the information at the NHSTA website in large numbers.
A major re-design, obviously. What does this have to do with "There were problems and now they are corrected"?
This new transmission may have worse problems than the previous one.
Wouldn't the 5-speed auto in the '03 Accord be essentially the one from the TL/CL, which also has a bit of a checkered history.
Overall, you look back at a Honda 10 years ago and look at the 2002 Accord and you will notice suttle changes as cost cutting measures. The bottom line is important to Honda America.
The one change that is highly noticeable is the paint issue. I for one am not happy about this cost cutting move.
When the transmission was replaced the car drove horribly. Couldn't climb hills, didn't shift well. Felt like the engine and transmission from my old 1999 Mazda Protege was in the vehicle. I took the car back to Honda 8/5/2002 and they mentioned something about internal stuff failing and needing a new transmission.
This tranmission runs great, it climbs hills well, changes without a hitch, and the car drives like when I drove it off the lot, like a dream.
Question: What would cause the transmission to fail twice? Should I be alarmed? I'm thinking that the something else major may go in the car, and my warranty is almost up. Why doesn't Honda warrant their drivetrain for 50k like most other manufactures?
Thanks for your input.
XheVoice
But I don't care..I'm thick skinned!
I still maintain that these transmission problems are few and far between. Of course, there will always be transmissions that act up in any car. We have to remember that these forums will attract the horror stories and tales of woe.
And, yes, the 2003 Accords will have a different transmission that will be a five speed automatic. I don't think this was because of "problems" but is, instead, simply an improvement. I hear it'll be silky smooth.
Honda transmissions have always had a firm shift. Now, for me, I always thought this was a good and not a bad thing from my old street racing days.
Others disagree and I think this may be one of the reasons Honda is changing the transmission.
Hondas have always been know for more road noise than, say a Camry. I understand that the 2003's will be MUCH quieter. We shall see.
I've lost a few sales to Camry because of the softer ride. This is something that I hope does NOT change since a lot of us think the Camry is has mushy handling compared to the Accords.
I would never buy any car with a 3year/36K power train warranty ever again. Honda needs to be competitive in this field with the likes of Toyota and VW.
You would think it would be time to let this go but I guess this has become a crusade of sorts...so be it.
I don't doubt the story at all but maintain this was pretty unusual.
Hopefully the replacement Toyota will be perfect.
I have a 2001 Honda Accord EX. I took the car in for its 30k preventive 6/2002 and the mechanic informed me I was leaking transmission fluid. I took the car into Honda. They mentioned something about a gasket, a leak and replacing the transmission.
When the transmission was replaced the car drove horribly. Couldn't climb hills, didn't shift well. Felt like the engine and transmission from my old 1999 Mazda Protege was in the vehicle. I took the car back to Honda 8/5/2002 and they mentioned something about internal stuff failing and needing a new transmission.
This transmission runs great, it climbs hills well, changes without a hitch, and the car drives like when I drove it off the lot, like a dream.
Question: What would cause the transmission to fail twice? Should I be alarmed? I'm thinking that the something else major may go in the car, and my warranty is almost up. Why doesn't Honda warrant their drive train for 50k like most other manufactures?
Thanks for your input.
XheVoice
I am not the only one with this problem isellhondas. Thought all of you would be interested in this post.
I think everyone can make their own conclusions regarding this issue.
Fact #1: Honda sells over 400K of the Accord a year. That's over 2,000,000 Accords over the 5 year run of the 6th Gen. Accord. That's a lot of sales year in and out for a car with such a bad tranny problem, woudln't you say?
Fact # 2: Honda Accord has been in the top 2 of auto sales for every year since 1989. Do all these buyers and repeat buyers come back due to the fact that the Accord is unreliable and has a bad tranny that will often fail?
Fact # 3: Honda Accord has a very high resell value, as can be verified with Edmund's True Cost to Own figures. Is the bad tranny problem the Accord supposedly has the reason why it's resale is so much higher compared to other top sellers such as the Taurus?
Fact # 4: The Accord is a car that is made by man & machine. It is not perfect, nor are all examples of it perfect. Nor is any other car. Anything man made will have problems, some more than others. If you believe that the Accord has problems, feel free to check out other manufacturers and their cars. There is a reason why the Accord is a top seller every year for such a long time.
Fact # 5: The vast majority of these Accord owners DO NOT have tranny problems!!! Half a dozen or so different people (yourself included) that have posted here with a problem does not make bad tranny epidemic at Honda.
Fact # 6: The majority of people who post to a consumer site (like this one) will post about questions/problems. They do not typically post about not having problems. This will amplify a small amount of people that had legitimate problems (like you did) into looking like a larger problem.
Rbruehl, you had a bad experience, all of us accept that, as should you. While we can appreciate your problems, the facts DO NOT SUPPORT that what you experienced is the norm for Honda Accords.....period!
Since Honda's are so reliable, it wouldn't cost them anything in claims to provide the longer warranty, so why don't they? (I'm not bashing, I own an '00 Accord EXV6. If *I* have tranny problems, then I'll start bashing.
If more reviews pointed out the difference in warranty, I bet it would get changed fairly quickly. Many reviews about VW's commented about the 2/24k warranty, and that got changed.
Like I said, you get burned twice---its time for a change and I made mine.
Fact #8--Honda needs to address their power train warranty as it favors Honda and not the customer. If they are so reliable, why don't they make a 5 year/ 60K warranty standard. I will tell you why, they are not as reliable as you tend to believe.
It is strange that no one commented on the other post that I found regarding the failure of two transmissions. I guess it was to hard for anyone to believe right?
I was the one with the Civic tranny problem in Beachnut's posting. I want to see your stories about the two transmission replacements you had but couldn't find them among 1400 postings - do you remember the posting numbers?
My Civic has been jerking at low miles for several months. The problem is well documented on the NHTSA database and Honda's TSB. After going back and forth to the dealership three times and spending $300, I may have to replace the tranny and Honda is playing hardball with me because it's after warranty. I'm curious to know how you got them to pay for your repairs. I'm just so annoyed at Honda that I swear I'll never buy a Honda ever again.
Thanks a bunch.
Let's face it, Honda had a problem and I hope they corrected with the new 2003 transmission.
tinkywinky--I suggest you go through all 1400 plus topics to check rbruehl's postings. He would have to do the same to provide you with the post numbers. If that is to long to do, I suggest contacting isellhondas since he knows the incident inside and out and comments on it all the time. Also, you probably could contact rbruehl directly and get the facts first hand.
So if rbruehl anonymously comes out and says he's Elvis that is fact also????? How do we know that rbruehl or lugwrench are not working for the PR department at Toyota and releasing false data about their biggest competitor? Maybe lugwrench was on the grassy knoll as well....
The point is....we don't know, so we have to use common sense and logic when we read all these things out here, such as I tried to present in Facts #1 thru #6. Honda has a perennial bestseller with the Accord for a reason, and making unreliable cars is NOT that reason. If it were, the same fate would have happened to them as has happened to the Olds Cutlass, Buick Regal, Ford Taurus, etc. All were #1 sellers, all failed to hold that ranking due to reliabiliy/durability issues. The cream of the crop of the middle class cars are the Accord and the Camry, and their continued high sales are the results of their reliability & overall great value. If those things weren't true and the Accords really were as troubleprone as rbruehl and lugwrench make it out to be, the Accord ( or the Camry for that matter) would hold those high sales figures for long....period.
I give up.....common sense and logical thinking obviously does not seem to apply here anymore, and that's the REAL fact!!!! You guys can go ahead and believe what you want to believe......
And Rbruehl, not to worry...Xvoice has posted the same message in many forums around here besides this one.
I'm kinda surprised you haven't paid for a billboard the way you keep bring this up ad nauseum!
And I do hope your Toyota is perfect.
Toyota may have some sludge problems
Ford has certainly had a variety of problems
Chryslers haven't been known for stellar quality
Volkswagens aren't so great either
The Koreans are unproven
Who does that leave?
Other companies with problems of their own.
It's a case of choose your poison and take your chances.
Having said that, I think that statistics are still on the side of Honda and Toyota. Having some problems is still better than having a lot of problems.
While no car is perfect, I don't think that anyone can buy any car line with a realistic (note I said realistic) expectation of having zero problems.
I've been following this thread for a long time now, and compared to other threads, the Honda problems - even in the older cars with high milage - generally seem to be less than some other makes.
While this is no comfort to someone who had to have two transmissions replaced, the fact remains that we all have to buy cars sooner or later, and when we do, we have to put our money down and place our bets.
To paraphrase Daymon Runyon, "A Honda ain't always reliable, but that's the way to bet".
Now let's get back to discussing specific problems that people encounter, and how to fix them, and stop all this about how widespread those problems may or may not be.
Since American Honda doesn't share its defects, there is no way of tracking unless it is from someone posting or the NHSTA. I for one have talked to service technicians that have indicated there was a remarkable difference regarding transmission failure rate between the 5th and 6th generation Accords. In simple layman's terms, the service technicians work on a heck of a lot more 6th generation Accords with failed transmissions than the 5th generation.
Honda's transmissions in the 6th generation Accords are not as reliable as previous generations.
Honda owners in general seem to be very defensive when confronting posts that list a continuous series of defects. In general, they don't want to accept it or believe that it actually happens.
I personally think that the new transmission that Honda will be putting into the 2003 Accord will solve the problem.
This is exactly the point people have been making here regarding Hondas 3 year 36K power train warranty. Instead of Honda giving you a 5 year 50K warranty like many other manufacturers, they soak you an extra $1000.00 because their warranty ends at 36K on the power train. This is to give the customer peace of mind for an extra grand.
More and more people are buying the Honda Extended Warranty for peace of mind? It sounds more like knowing something is going to happen to their car and they want to be covered.
Essentially, you are arguing that you think that Honda should raise the price of the car $1,000 an d force all buyers to take the option of the extended warranty whether they feel that they need it or not. However,some will want it and some don't feel they need it.
The whole warranty question is another variation in the theme of "what's peace of mind worth to you?"
Some people argue that, with their lower intial selling prices, GM cars are better deals than Hondas because - even if you have to pay to fix some problems - they are less expensive than Japanese cars. If you don't have to pay to fix anything on on the particular one that you buy then they can come out to be considerably cheaper to operate. The difference is that with a Japanese car the expenses are predictable as they are part of the car payment and maintence schedule and on an American car they can pop up unpredictably.
I conclude it it is all a marketing ploy on Honda's part to entice you to buy the extended warranty.
It's marketing, pure and simple!
Personally, I would be happy to see Honda raise the price of their cars a bit and make the warranties longer. Most buyers would never notice the raise in pricing.
But then I've never been invited to a brainstorming session with their brass either.
We have already built more than six hundred of these 5 speed Accord L4 transmissions, though I don't know any thing about how they will be distributed.
Honda of America does not sell extended warranties-these are offered by a separate company and are sold as insurance policies against which claims are made against the underwriter.
Honda is not in the business of selling warranties.
Their base warranty offered was never intended to encourage nor discourage buyers from purchasing extended warranties. It was a reasonable time period of warranty coverage to cover defects in manufacturing and component parts.
Honda has also been known to offer out-of-warranty repair coverage on certain items, solely at their discretion.
I am not saying that Honda never has design or manufacturing problems which result in cronic problems with their cars. I know that such problems are very costly to Honda, so we are all working to eliminate that sort of thing.
I do believe that Honda would rather pay for your repair for a known issue than have you absorb the cost of repair and lose you as a repeat customer.
Part of the reason I continue to buy Hondas (still have all three Accords-'92,'94,'98) is because I want first-hand knowledge of how well our product is performing. I hope to own a 2003 Accord or newer so I can continue in that tradition.
I look at it this way, Honda's powertrain warranty stinks in the USA. It should be 5 years and 60K. I had to buy the extended warranty through "HONDA CARE" which gives you up to 7 years and 100K with no deductible. It cost me $960.00 which I didn't want to part with. The finance manager told me "it is better to be safe than sorry".
In 1986, my mom looked at the Accord and put down a deposit for one. She changed her mind and got her deposit back. She ended up buying Accord's rival, the Camry.
Well 16 1/2 years and 221,900 miles later with no major problems its now time for my mom to buy a new car. Now I'm an adult trying to help my mom select her "perfect" new car. I also believe you take a chance on any brand but I know that Toyotas & Hondas are most reliable.
The 2003 Accord and 2003 Camry are both on my mom's list ( the Altima is a little too "crude",the Avalon is for "old" people , she is 64 , US cars have too many problems, the Mazda 6 - ? )
By the way I have noticed more 1986 Camrys on the road than 1986 Accords.
If I find something out I'll let you know.
Went with a friend who was looking at Nissan Altimas this past Saturday. One of the first things that came out of the salesman's mouth is that Nissan and he even mentioned Toyota have the best warranty and flatly stated that Honda has the worst. Then he talked about Nissan's 5 year powertrain warranty in detail.
By the way, the Nissan Altima looked good until I got inside the car. They could sure use some interior design lessons from Honda or Toyota. Also, don't sit in the back seat if you are over 6' tall. That sloping roof will hit your head.
I firmly believe Honda needs to address its powertrain warranty. Consumers are starting to wise up regarding what a manufacturer offers in warranties.