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Comments
Look up the nature of the complaints...
And...hey, I have no problem with anybody who thinks Japan built Hondas are better.
I just disagree...totally.
But what do I know? I've only sold about a thousand of them.
And, before anybody calls me biased or accuses me of "having my head in the sand", I'll say this...
You could be right...It's just that I have never been able to detect any differences in quality.
Buy what you like!
Listen isellhondas, the NHSTA numbers are facts and not lies. People have more complaints regarding Accords---that's what the NHSTA is all about.
Yes isellhondas, you might sell 1000's of Hondas but I also suggest you start reading the 1000's of complaints at the NHSTA. All the numbers are there!
You can read these very boards and see any number of "complaints" that are very heartfelt but nonetheless very dubious.
As for the "made in Japan" claim vs. the "made in Mexico" claim vs WHATEVER, I think that is second-guessing taken to an extreme when buying a car or truck. You look at CR, Edmunds, talk to owners, and make up your mind from that. Trying to prove a relative statistical defect rate between the same models made in different countries?---well, GOOD LUCK, that's a tough piece of work for the average car buyer, unless you are content to make your decisions based on unproven rumors that SOUND like "they should be true".
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20020531/1008063.asp
I would love to see a quality comparison of the Honda plant in Ohio and the Honda plant in Japan that produces Accords. I bet for my money, the plant in Japan produces a high quality Accord. Unfortunately, Honda doesn't share this type of data with the consumer.
My god...if we based our car buying on these reports we would all ride bicycles or take a bus!
And, mikegold...you are correct. The Honda plant in Japan does produce "high quality Accords" So does the plant in Ohio.
I think everyone should take a moment to read some of the NHTSA complaints. Here is one of my favorites:
"THIS MODEL HONDA MAKES A LOUD NOISE, COMING FROM THE UNDERNEATH THE CAR, WHEN FIRST STARTED COLD. THE SOUND IS MORE LIKE A "THUMP" AND IS SUPSPECTED (ALTHOUGH I'M NOT CERTAIN) TO BE EITHER THE TRANSMISSION OR THE EXHAUST SYSTEM. I TRIED SEVERAL DIFFERENT CARS AND THE NOISE WAS CONSISTENT. THE DEALER TELLS ME THE NOISE IS "NORMAL" WHICH IS ABSURD. HONDA HAS A RECALL PENDING ON EARLIER MODEL CARS FOR AN EXHAUST SYUSTEM PROBLEM--I'M WONDERING IF THIS COULD BE RELATED. I AM NOT AN EXPERT SO DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS A SERIOUS MATTER OR NOT."
Clearly, if every car does it, it MUST be a defect that is related to a previous exhaust recall on an eariler model car. It is clearly not: a) sensitive ears, b) a normal, mechanical actuation on start-up or shifting, or c) the fist of God pounding the car roof in frustration. And, because no VIN is indicated in the complaint, this could even be, *gasp*, a Japanese Accord being complained about!
Mr. Shiftright is correct, these NHTSA consumer complaints are very subjective. The assertion that Japanese-built Accords are better than American-built Accords is based on anecdotal evidence, at best. Subjective and anecdotal evidence does not prove a point. Certainly, there are Accords rolling off the assembly line in Japan that are superior to ones rolling off the assembly line in Ohio. The reverse is just as true, as I alluded to somewhere on these boards, regarding my friend's Japanese-built 2000 I4-EX needing its entire engine replaced at 10,000 miles, due to what appeared to be manufacturing defects - the car was maintained per Honda specifications.
Those looking to buy Japanese Accords, by all means do so. And enjoy your Accord. The rest of us with Accords from Ohio will put on a brave face and try to muddle through. But please stop perpetuating what only amounts to a myth. If you've got objective data to prove that Japanese Accords are superior, by all means share it. You are making the assertions, it is not up to the rest of us to prove the negative. It is up to you to back up what you say.
And when I see you at a stoplight, I'll laugh as my EX-V6 leaves you in the dust.
As far as NHSTA sure there are complaints from all car manufacturers but what about the same complaints that keep re appearing pertaining to a certain model? I sure read a lot of balancer shaft seal complaints regarding 1994-1997 Honda Accords. It had me worried because my car was a 1996 Accord. The complaints must have been heard because Honda fixed my seal with a clip. They notified me by mail. Other things that stand out are the wiring harness on Accords as well as the air bag recalls.
The NHSTA provides checks and balances that force manufacturers into doing something when there is a continuous problem recorded.
I don't debate the usefulness of the NHTSA complaint mechanism, nor the validity of many of the complaints. I do take issue with equating the number of complaints to a lower quality product from a domestic factory, which, unless I was misreading, is exactly what was done. And I think, for a car like the Accord, that sells in the numbers that it does and has the reputation that it has (which makes people hold it to a higher standard), that 80 complaints for several hundred thousand cars sold in 2001, is an egregious amount.
And lastly, what happened to domestic Honda plants in 1995-96 that caused a sudden decrease in quality? Some have at least insinuated that Accord quality was just fine before then, but all of a sudden, quality headed downhill. What about the 13 or 14 years Accords were built in the United States before 1995?
My point about Toyota was this, despite having plants in the United States, they were at the top of the JD Power rating. Apparently, their domestic plants must be producing quality cars.
And, just for the record, I am not trying to defend Honda to the death. I am not a Honda salesman, don't own any stock. I just haven't seen the proof. And I drove Chevrolet's answer to the Accord for 2 years. The Malibu may have been one of the most improved in initial quality, but it had (and still has, in my opinion) a heck of a long way to go to match the Accord for sophistication, reliability, and quality of assembly and materials.
dc_sports_rule, Sure Honda acknowledged they had a problem and notified you. That's what they should do. I used to get those all the time when I owned Chevy vans. I've yet to get one with my 99 CRV and 01 Accord.
And also remember that quality could be caused by other factors besides where the factory is. Key among them is simply the engineering of the product. Shortcuts in engineering could also cause low quality.
PLEASE UNLOCK YOUR CAPS KEY !!!!
Anything at all with any hard data, even a half-completed term paper. I am ready to change my mind about this but I need more than "he said, she said" to do that.
Right now, when I look at reliability statistics, I don't see any patterns that I can discern at least to support the Japanese quality theory.
You cannot, by the way, pick out those statistics that support your idea and ignore similar stats that defeat it. If one U.S. made Japanese car has a low rating, but another U.S. made Japanese car has a high rating, you have got a serious problem with your theory.
Now if all U.S. made Japanese cars were at the bottom of the list, I'd pay attention to that.
You are one person and you could be very wrong or you could be very right. But you have no evidence of either at the moment. All you have is the testimony of three other people in the world so far who probably haven't owned the Japanese version of their car to compare it too.
This experience is just your own, and results may vary, in other words.
Ford, D/C and GM on the other hand seem to wait until the number of cars with the problem climbs into the hundreds of thousands. VW certainly hasn't made any friends with the quality of the New Beetles.... I think that the Japanese have a better track record when it comes to taking care of customers than some other manufacturers.
Another question has been puzzling me. Does Honda really produce two separate and distinct sets of parts for the Japanese Market and for the U.S. market? Of course some parts would be market specific, but I can't imagine that, say, transmissions are.
If transmissions are the big problem, what difference would a Japanese made car make? Assembly stuff is alignment of parts and squeeks and rattles. Component quality is in the design of the parts and they'll last as long as they last regardless of who puts them together, generally speaking.
Last question. How much more would you be willing to pay for a Honda with a warranty to 100,000 miles? $500? $1,000?
....comments?
What the body shop REALLY means but won't tell you is that they don't want to take the TIME to apply the water based paints correctly. If they are done right, they are just as good as any other modern paint commonly used on everyday cars. Read the directions on the can guys!
Consumers are the best SOURCE of quality data but not the best at gathering and interpreting it.
Consumers are ironically, the "first to find out but the last to know"....that is, they don't know if their problem is relegated to a few cars or to many. So they and their neighbor and their uncle could have transmission problems on the 2002 Blivet XL, but they simply cannot know if this is a serious defect or merely a statistical glitch with them.
22 complaints on the Internet, all unverified, do not make a statistical base for any rational comment on a product. It's simply too little of too unverified data, and makes no sense to me as a way of getting to the truth about something.
Anyway, I dont want to monopolize here. People want to talk about their Accord problems, so let's give them some room!
Personally, as long as the interior room and safety ratings are improved, I really don't care as long as the handling isn't affected.
Do not assume this change was made in the Civics as a cost cutting measure.
And, I have yet to hear even one customer complain about the change in the Civics.
We will soon find out, I suppose...
Morale to the story-get retired school teachers to do your emissions testing on a hot Friday afternoon and pull that fuse to reset the CEL before driving up to the station.
With the terrible economy in Japan, their culture has changed quite a bit in the last few years.
Have their work habits changed? I suspect that they have.
I have never said there was any difference between the paint jobs on U.S. vs. Japan Accords.
I have NO IDEA if the paint is different and I really don't care.
My black EX V-6 coupe has a fair number of paint chips on the leading edge of th hood. It was US built.
I also see paint chips on Japan cars.
Lets see...car is going 75 MPH, small rock hits hood, paint chips.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm no expert on this topic, but I've had two late model Accords, and that's worth something, even if it's a consumer-based, anecdotal opinion. I'd like to think that I'm an educated consumer who is trying to learn more. When folks bring up issues in these forums that sound interesting to me, or concern me, I try to find out more. It's a curiousity thing for me, and probably many others too.
Also, I would like to hear from someone with knowledge in chemistry relating to a comparison between oil and water based paints. I personally talked with a person that works in a high end collision shop (Lexus, Acura, Jaguar etc) and he said there is no comparison. An oil based paint has better durability and pointed out a Lexus ES 300 to me.
Now, I would like to find a chemist that can give a final determination to end this topic once and for all in a constructive light!